[guzey]

For the readers, here's my actual argument (https://guzey.com/theses-on-sleep/#comfortable-modern-sleep-...):

>1. Experiencing hunger is normal and does not necessarily imply that you are not eating enough. Never being hungry means you are probably eating too much.

>2. Experiencing sleepiness is normal and does not necessarily imply that you are undersleeping. Never being sleepy means you are probably sleeping too much.

[RandomThrow321]

And here's an excerpt where you repeatedly say that modern sleep is unnatural.

> Modern sleep, in its infinite comfort, is an unnatural superstimulus that overwhelms our brains with pleasure and comfort (note: I’m not saying that it’s bad, simply that being in bed today is much more pleasurable than being in “bed” in the past.)

> Think about sleep 10,000 years ago. You sleep in a cave, in a hut, or under the sky, with predators and enemy tribes roaming around. You are on a wooden floor, on an animal’s skin, or on the ground. The temperature will probably drop 5-10°C overnight, meaning that if you were comfortable when you were falling asleep, you are going to be freezing when you wake up. Finally, there’s moon shining right at you and all kinds of sounds coming from the forest around you.

> In contrast, today: you sleep on your super-comfortable machine-crafted foam of the exact right firmness for you. You are completely safe in your home, protected by thick walls and doors. Your room’s temperature stays roughly constant, ensuring that you stay warm and comfy throughout the night. Finally, you are in a light and sound-insulated environment of your house. And if there’s any kind of disturbance you have eye masks and earplugs.

> Does this sound “natural”?

[nnoitra]

Ouch. Ambient sounds of the forest are a lot better than the modern equivalent of loud neighbors and drilling. He also seems to have forgotten that humans built fires. Caves have great sound insulation and I'm pretty sure our ancestors knew how to choose their caves.

I have spent years being a sleep deprived student because the dorms were super noisy with random parties and paper thin walls so I really can't relate to the implied utter comfortable sleeping habits of modern people. I'm sure there are people complaining about noise pollution in NY as well.

No one in my circle sleeps on an overpriced mattress. Mostly it's just the bed the place that we rent has. I never could connect with articles implying modern people live in these utterly comfortable utopias when it's really not the case. People are depressed. Especially males are doing horribly.

[guzey]

Yep, and here's conclusion of this argument:

>Now, what if the only sleep available to you was modern sleep?

> 1. If you don’t sleep at all, you go crazy, because some amount of sleep is necessary.

> 2. If you sleep just enough to be awake during the day, you’ll be dreaming of getting a nap at the sight of a bed and will be distracted and sleepy all the time. Importantly, I claim, in this situation, the feeling of sleepiness does not mean that you should sleep more – it’s your brain being overpowered by a superstimulus while being bored.

3. I claim that if you sleep as much as you want, you’ll probably sleep too much and become more susceptible to depression. [by analogy to eating too much]

- And if you sleep way too much at once, you’ll be feeling terrible afterwards, however pleasant the sleep was.

[slibhb]

Is there any way to not experience sleepiness or hunger? Do overweight people never experience hunger?

[Karawebnetwork]

The opposite is generally more true, where the inability to feel satiety or feeling constant hunger will be the main factor in some of the problems that cause overweight.