[lokalfarm]

This is a very shallow view of what it means to be working as a plumber...

As someone who spent a couple years doing commercial plumbing:

1) You are lifting very heavy 10-20ft long sticks of cast iron pipe, often 10+ ft in the air. There is technology to aid with this (scissor lifts) but it is brutal work.

2) You spend a lot of time in the air - on ladders or lifts - often overhanging the edges. You are constantly drilling hangers in the ceiling, breathing in dust that will ruin your lungs permanently. And again, you are also fitting cast iron pipes in this environment. You will feel the sway and it's pretty easy to hurt yourself. OSHA is a joke. I've been caught in the middle of a huge storm, since the foreman didn't want to let us off early, and we had to run down 8 stories of scaffolding while heavy material is being thrown around like ragdolls.

3) People on job sites generally don't give a @$%^. Toxic fumes? Check. Concrete/cement dust? Check. Crazy welders that don't care that they can potentially ruin your eyesight? Check.

4) Your company will track you with apps, often not pay you until you arrive on the jobsite, but you still need to be at the shop @ 6AM to help load materials. Unpaid.

5) Depending on where you live, you can expect to listen to nothing but conservative talk radio on that morning ride. I've worked with people from all paths, so this didn't really bother me, but something to consider if you have spent most of your life doing white-collar work. You can expect to be around some hateful ignorance.

6) If you're not doing new construction, you can expect to be in the ceiling, crawling among ducts, trying not to fall through. This is generally with copper pipes, which is another ball game as far as cutting, soldering/brazing, or crimping. Otherwise, you are often trying to do this standing on a 12ft ladder.

Commercial plumbing pays better than residential (fixing a dirty toilet) and is often in more demand. It is also a pretty good way to wreck your body. Most of the older/senior plumbers that I worked with spent their time trying to do as little work as possible, and were drunk after lunch. Addictions are very common.

IME, people who often are shouting "get in the trades!" are the exact people who have never once worked in one (or they own a business in it). It ain't all that.

[verisimi]

I hear you. Sorry you think its a shallow view! but I thank you for your thoughts. I have done some plumbing of my own - I can personally verify that I never felt comfortable - always contorted!

Managers/foremen etc are asses the world over. I was really addressing the work. And I thought I picked a pretty unpleasant example in dirty toilets!

I contrast the work you do with work I have done. I was making a moral point.

I have worked in financial and other institutions. I really see no value in what I have contributed. If I achieved something, its that the shareholders of those institutions were happier in being able to squeeze a bit more life-force for themselves from others. I helped the fat cats get a little fatter.

BTW - I think you wreck your body sitting in front of a machine all day. I accept that coding is not as overtly dangerous though!

[lokalfarm]

> I helped the fat cats get a little fatter.

I think that is just the way of the world, especially in America. Even though I have worked in fields that produce a more "tangible" product, I can't say that I have contributed or helped much of anything. And now I'm in my 30s without an education and I only have experience doing things that I never want to do again.

Bosses are always terrible, but it's a little different when your life is literally at stake. I've had "old school" foremen who want to sit and call you a pu$$y because you don't want to stand (without a harness) on a flimsy piece of wood over a six story shaft, cutting and then brazing 8" copper pipe. It's also harder when you don't have dedicated recruiting networks and the ability to WFH like many do in tech/SWE.

(Just my perspective! I appreciate the discussion.)