[JohnGB]

One of many reasons that I will never enter the UAE. There is no rule of law, and so no protection if anyone decides to charge you for anything. I've read of women being raped and then being charged for reporting it which essentially admits sex outside of marriage, or of foreigners who get driven into by a local and then charged as if they were the ones being reckless.

That's not even going into their de facto slavery with foreign construction workers, environmental damage, and sexism.

[spiderfarmer]

After some bad experiences I will never visit an Arab country again. They'll have to do something against the sexism, constant heckling and the bad state of law before I even think about going there. Or they can do whatever they want, they don't have to change just for me.

I'm 6 ft 6 and I have a blonde wife who's just a bit smaller. Even though we behaved very polite and dressed like locals it was like we had a big target on our backs and were looked upon with resentment everywhere we went.

I will not mention the countries we visited but it was pretty much the same everywhere.

[3pt14159]

How about having an international bribery conspiracy pinned on you?

Happened to my pops because he, a German-born Canadian of Turkish and German descent, refused to pay bribes. I was actually conceived while he was out there in Saudi Arabia with my mom and they came back to Canada to have me but not before a giant RCMP investigation kicked off that ended up in Canadian parliament because courts didn't have jurisdiction at that time.

The only reason he didn't go to jail was ONE GUY, a young Lebanese dude with a family and a nascent green card to America had the balls to go against everyone else in the conspiracy. He freely testified that he was the one that actually carried the cash between the parties involved—implicating himself and risking his family's future—and he knew just who was guilty and who wasn't and the one guy who wasn't in on it was my father.

Later, he met with some American officials and they said something along the lines of "don't worry about your green card, we want more Americans like you" to the Lebanese dude.

Later my parents made him and his wife my godparents and we talk on the phone even to this day.

But think about it. Dozens of well-off people conspired to pin prison time on some random person from Canada who wouldn't hurt a soul.

Fuck. That.

[pradn]

I went to Egypt a few months ago and was met with incredibly warm people, with perhaps even an excess of hospitality. Yes, you do get charged extra for being a tourist at the tourist spots. But that's only a small part of the country. That said, I am Indian and was met as an Egyptian most of the time (people would start speaking to me in Arabic 70% of the time), so I had the benefit of fitting in well. The delicious food, the serene Nile, the magnificent range of art, the tea shops, and the people - the country is worth a visit even if you aren't into ancient Egyptian stuff. Travel is always a risk, so there's that.

[cryptolake]

As someone from an arab country i can say, this is true, sexual harassment is rampant and people see women more or less like an object than a human being.

[pcardoso]

I must say I visited Jordan with my wife in 2020, right before the pandemic and I had a wonderful experience. No heckling, we felt safe all the time, people didn't rip us off, and when looked at we felt it was more curiosity than anything else.

We loved it. I'm learning arabic on Duolingo now because I got curious about the script.

Of course, YMMV.

[2143]

> They'll have to do something against the sexism

They're working on it. The situation has improved. There's a long way to go, but there's progress. Give it a 100 more years.

> dressed like locals

Please don't do that. It just looks weird when foreigners do it. Just wear what you would normally wear in your western country. (Although, a bikini is probably not a good idea).

> were looked upon with resentment everywhere we went.

I've lived in USA for a while. Although people were generally very friendly, I have definitely been looked at with resentment from America for no good reason.

[dicroce]

I'm 6'6"... I wish you would mention the countries so I can make sure to never go.

[onlyrealcuzzo]

Which country?

[webmobdev]

It's probably because you dressed as local.

[mrwnmonm]

Are you western?

I get really bored hearing someone talking about us like this. While your knowledge about Arab countries comes from an all-inclusive trip to Tunisia or something.

The west always plays a big role in keeping dictators all over the place, who don't care about education or anything other than their chair. People are ignorant and if you look fancy or different, even if you are native, they will look at you like that. Not entirely your fault, but your politicians love it, and use their super powers to keep it as it is.

[Teracotage]

For those who did not bother to read the article, it is about fraud during the financial crisis. I feel sad for Cornelius and wish he is set free. As a resident of Dubai for 30 years, I am always curious to learn things that I may have missed about 'my city', yet this article is misleading in many ways, its few first paragraph where it states that Ryan Cornelius 'thought the authorities had simply made a mistake;' Really? He has taken a loan to complete a project in Dubai yet he took the money for a project in Pakistan. Later the writer says'Cornelius’s business forged invoices for items such as furniture and building materials to match the investment capital being funnelled to the Plantation. A later civil case, brought by dib in Britain, concluded that Cornelius was “fully implicated” in the creation of fabricated invoices to perpetrate a fraud'. The Economist used to be a decent publication with great journalism, unfortunately that is not the case anymore.

[andjd]

If you read long enough, they start a section with "Cornelius undoubtedly committed fraud." I think the bigger takeaway is the lack of the rule of law. The crime he committed only carried a three-year jail term. This was later increased by trumping up the charge to 'fraud against the government' (because the government owned a minority stake in the bank) and then he was held in prison even beyond that term because he still owed payment on the loan despite the bank repossessing collateral worth several times the loan amount.

One of my additional takeaways here though is the failure of the British Foreign Office. Part of the service I expect my embassy to provide is assistance if I were to get caught up in a foreign legal system, even if this is only to connect me with a local lawyer. I also expect them to exert diplomatic pressure if the local courts or prosecutors are applying a double standard to foreigners.

[Geekette]

It is less about fraud and more about the existence of draconian laws (imprisoning debtors) in a place that professes modernity and manipulation of or utter disregard for said laws by those in high places. All parties including the main lender knew about the irregularities you cited, yet they agreed to restructure the loan. The man's fraud charge normally carries a 3 year sentence but he's still in prison 13 years later because his sentence got extended based on the bank's request.

[dahdum]

Yeah, they really buried the admission of fraud pretty deep in the article. They forged invoices and spent 342m on unauthorized riskier projects. Sounds like the sentence may be excessive, but not the conviction.

[FDSGSG]

The problem isn't that Cornelius went to prison. The problem is the way he is being treated, whether or not he is guilty is entirely irrelevant.

> The Economist used to be a decent publication with great journalism, unfortunately that is not the case anymore.

How come? Are you saying that they left something out or twisted the facts?

[webmobdev]

> I've read of women being raped and then being charged for reporting it which essentially admits sex outside of marriage

That's more true of Saudi Arabia, than UAE. The first thing you are told to tell your female relatives is to never ever travel alone outside in SA, anywhere, as the police can and do use that as an excuse to arrest them and molest or rape them. The reverse also happens - some rich womenfolk often seduce their male servants / drivers to have sex with them. If the guy wants to stop, some of the women blackmail them with threat to report them for attempted rape. (Source: one of my distant relative who worked as a driver in a Saudi household).

[dandare]

> That's more true of Saudi Arabia, than UAE

It was in UEA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Gali

[canucker2016]

Also Qatar.

from https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10538379/Female-Wor...:

    A female World Cup official is facing a sentence of 100 lashes and seven years in jail for 'extramarital sex' after she reported being raped while working in Qatar.

    Paola Schietekat, 28, from Mexico, was working for the World Cup organising committee when she complained that she was raped by an associate who broke into her apartment and threatened to kill her.

    She reported the June 6, 2021 attack to the Qatari authorities, who responded by accusing her of having an affair and charged her with 'extramarital sex', which is illegal in the Gulf state.

    Schietekat was told by lawyers that one way of avoiding conviction was to marry her attacker but instead decided to flee the country, leaving behind what she called her 'dream job'.

The charges against Schietekat, who is a behavioural economist, are still valid and she is expected to be sentenced in absentia on March 6.

[logicchains]

>There is no rule of law

In San Francisco if someone walks into your shop and steals less than $950 worth of goods there's pretty much nothing you can do about it; is that rule of law?

[moralestapia]

Yes, that is literally a written law that is being properly followed. Although the end result may be questionable, there is a legal framework by which disputes could be reasonably resolved, while trying to preserve the rights of all parties involved.

In other places you have no such thing and, trust me, things are much worse.

[vianneychevalie]

In the article, it's mentioned that people there are held in jail for decades for debts below $1000. That's the "debt trap" in the title.

I'd argue that I'd rather let someone steal than let them rot in jail for such a long time, for such a low monetary value, be it from debt or from theft. I understand you may disagree, that's why we do politics.

Additionally, which country has the best "rule of law", comparatively? Talking in absolutes in that regard is moot in my opinion.

[Grollicus]

Why shouldn't it be?

Rule of law basically means laws apply to everyone the same.

[josephcsible]

San Francisco is definitely terrible right now, but even so, having people in jail who shouldn't be is way, way worse than having people out of jail who shouldn't be.

[sandeeps_]

Ha

[justinroberts22]

So you don't recommend even for just travelling? It is a safe country for tourists?

[conductr]

I've been as a tourist and had expat family live there for ~15 years. It's safe until it's not. Any unexpected confrontation or interaction with the officials can go sideways quick because they will fabricate whatever story fits their preferred reality and subject you to the consequences of it. The driving example is the most easily discussed because it's common to witness the locals simply not following laws or basic safety. This is like rich guy in a lambo doing 3x the speed limit and deciding to drive the wrong direction and does quick and unexpected U turn causing an accident. You see this stuff regularly. But, he's not at fault because of his Emirati status and probably some level of caste system within that I don't fully understand. He could literally wreck his car, cause a fatality in the process, and just walk away from it with limited questioning from officials. The officials will find a way to explain it that does not cause bad PR for an Emirati.

It's best to have a handler. We had a guy that was a fixer. He worked for my family's employer technically and was available to all the expat employees in Dubai, but he was like the well connected guy you have on speed dial and call immediately if anything occurs. He'd swoop in and money would change hands and/or a phone call would be made and everything would magically be solved. I think in the 15 years they ended up calling him about 10 times and they're all insane stories over beers. Luckily, the few weeks I was there things were pretty quiet.

[andi999]

The first example seems more like a strict rule of law instead of no rule of law.

[laurent92]

If you are afraid of the lack of rule of law, there are not many countries we need to avoid. Japan has a 99.995% of inculpation after their police interview. And that has to do with the fact that their interview can lawfully last for 22 days, renewable. You can’t even avoid USA: 95% of jailmates are there upon self-admission of guilt without external proof, ie. without objective proof besides self-incrimination.

[thematrixturtle]

Incorrect: Japan has a 99.95% conviction rate for cases that go to trial. This is partly achieved by lengthy pretrial detention determined to extract confessions out of people, but equally importantly by not prosecuting any cases that are less than watertight (read: the culprit has already confessed).

[friedturkey]

Man people really see some blog post about Japanese law by a person who doesn’t speak the language and think it’s some 1984 style country.

In all honesty you can basically apologize out of a lot of crimes and police generally don’t bother with anything else unless there’s video evidence, they catch you in the act, or you’re a high profile person involved in a high profile act.

Just never get caught with drugs in your possession, and if you get caught with personal amounts, apologize and cry. Not kidding.

[rayiner]

You’re incorrect as to the US, and I suspect as to Japan as well. Lots of criminals in America plead guilty, but that doesn’t mean that there’s no “external proof” of guilt. Cops are lazy and criminals are dumb. So what you end up with in nearly all cases is that cops make arrests in easy cases with tons of evidence. Confronted with the video tape, cell phone records, etc., the accused then pleads guilty. Rarely do you see the kind of cases you hear about on Podcasts where guilt turns on circumstantial evidences and confessions. I’ve seen this from inside the court system.

My wife had a homicide trial where prosecutors had a complete video tape record of the accused shooting the victim and driving back to his house. The trial was just cutting from one CCTV feed to the next as the accused drove around town. The jury found him guilty—because of course they did.

[bragr]

Japan has a very strong rule of law. It is just that the law is a bit medieval.