[Hokusai]

This reminds me of each time people criticises the European Union for "condemning" something. Big organizations do things step by step. First you talk, then you act. Even Russia prepared a prerecorded pantomime of a discussion before acting. This are the gears moving and is no small thing, it sends a message and prepares for the worse.

[smsm42]

The problem is not condemning, the problem is just condemning and not taking the next step, or making it so weak it actually emboldens tbe agressor, who thinks "oh, that's all they got? Wasn't too bad, I guess I'll just keep on"

[trhway]

On the main, "voice of the state", the 1st channel of Russian TV they have just discussed that the West would introduce more sanctions, yet half a year down the road the West would just get used to the situation.

[praptak]

This is the biggest problem. I don't believe the sanctions imposed on Russia for the previous acts of aggression reached the level which Putin had already calculated into his plans.

[CodeArtisan]

Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 to "enforce peace". Same with Crimea in 2014. Then Luhansk and Donetsk a few days ago. Now the rest of Ukraine. Discussion with Putin is futile. When Russia started sending troops next to the Ukraine borders, NATO and especially USA should have responded by sending two thousands soldiers to Kiev. It's too late now.

[gambiting]

>> NATO and especially USA should have responded by sending two thousands soldiers to Kiev

And when those American soldiers are killed by Russian missiles, do you then declare full on war on Russia, and we basically all die? Because like....there is no other good option out of this you know. By placing American(or NATO) troops and assets in the harms way, you need to be prepared for what you are going to do if those troops get attacked - and the current strategy is to attack back, which again = end of the world. Arming Ukraine to the teeth and letting them fight back was the second best option and that's exactly what the west has done.

Also, there was a meme recently - it's all fun and games being an expert on the internet, but then you remember you are an able bodied male who would absolutely be drafted in to actually fight. "West should do something" - great, you first. I have kids and family, as a Pole the risk of actually being involved in military operations is making me extremely uncomfortable right now.

[publicola1990]

Many NATO members have strong enconomic links with Russia. For example Russia is building nuclear power plants in Turkey and Hungary, which are in very advanced state of construction for example.

[tarsinge]

> Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 to "enforce peace". Same with Crimea in 2014. Then Luhansk and Donetsk a few days ago. Now the rest of Ukraine. Discussion with Putin is futile.

Just remember that the USA played the same kind of playbook (maybe worse) in Syria and Iraq. It's equally condamnable, but it can give you some perspective to see through media portrayal.

[imwillofficial]

I’m glad you’re willing to play armchair general with other people’s blood.

I served, did you? I’m 100% disabled as a result. If you didn’t wear the uniform, don’t be so quick to volunteer others for what you aren’t willing to do yourself.

[sofixa]

> When Russia started sending troops next to the Ukraine borders, NATO and especially USA should have responded by sending two thousands soldiers to Kiev. It's too late now.

That would have escalated the situation further and would have helped Putin's narrative, like the Russian mobilisation in WWI which only pushed things over the edge.

[ricardobayes]

Next up is Finland. Also not a NATO member.

[2143]

> NATO and especially USA should have responded by sending two thousands soldiers to Kiev

And Russia would've been scared and retreated.

Sarcasm aside, all that would've done is accelerate the whole invasion procedure.

And then the 2000 troops would be killed by Russia.

Then America/NATO will retaliate.

That'll be the endgame.

[oblio]

None of those countries are in NATO and some of them were not super friendly until the crises happened.

Ukraine itself is an example.

Ukraine was posturing aggressively against Romania, NATO and EU member, as recently as 2009.

I feel bad for what's happening in Ukraine, but they didn't really try to make many friends before 2014.