The propaganda is also very strong on Chinese social media (especially Wechat). I leave in France and I know a few Chinese person that keep telling me that this war was mainly caused by USA, that the Ukraine president is a dictator and so on...
Oh, the irony! As an Indian, reading nytimes and bbc articles about India was a real eye opener on how much propaganda is passed off as 'opinion' and 'news' in the western press.
I mean, the confidence and elan with which a narrative is pushed by blatantly hiding contrarian views and even facts is fascinating to observe, especially when you're on the ground looking at stuff firsthand.
>that the Ukraine president is a dictator and so on...
A year ago Zelensky closed all opposition TV channels on the pretext they were pro-Russian. [0] Not one or two. All of them. Since then there is no opposition TV in Ukraine.
It is overly simplification. I think the sentiment in China is really not about supporting Russia; it is about anti-US.
Because quite a lot of people in China think US is organizing an Eastern NATO, to "destabilize" the whole region. For example, the nuclear-powered marine deal with Australia, etc. Biden’s first year was much harsher on China than Russia.
In 1999, NATO bombed the Chinese embassy, killing 3, that certainly did not help.
I’m ashamed of my country and people… only if they were well informed and had unlimited access to internet would they start realizing they have been brainwashed by their own goevernment….
> Many of the ads, which are mostly clips of CGTN newscasts, sprinkle in pro-Russia, anti-NATO talking points and downplay Russia's actions in launching an unprovoked invasion of its neighbor.
>Good WSJ article on Russia vs. China. In a nutshell, China miscalculated the situation. They will likely look to limit their bet (on Russia) for fear of becoming Russia 2.0 to the West. [1]
The tweet is from Neil Cybart and WSJ. You may know him as one of the more accurate Apple analysts. And most people still to this day think either China miscalculated it, or China's official stance is somewhat unclear. ( Paul Graham )
And as usual, Benedict Evans has much better take on the situation. Mostly likely because of his major in History.
I don’t know why China is so keen on helping Russia. Is this some kind of godfather deal and they want some massive ROI from Russia once things settle down a bit? Or is this some long-term strategy “against the West”?
It's win-win for them, no? A weak Russia isolated from the west means cheap resources for China. And the West focusing on the conflict and spending resources in Europe draws attention away from China in Asia. Seems like it's their interest to keep both parties in a drawn out conflict.
Though perhaps they have to balance it with how it affects the world economy.
Russia has nowhere else to go now that western markets are closed to them. China will be able to buy natural gas and oil nearly at cost because nobody else is willing to buy them, and gets to dictate the prices it's willing to pay. It also gets a large market for the products of its industry with close to zero competition.
At least that's the general feeling among Russian economists whom I've been reading lately.
Anti-NATO sentiment has become pivotal to China's future and the new world order since recent events have pushed most of the world into America's corner (which hurts China).
Now they're basically compensating for Russia's mess (and won't ever let them forget that).
What's not to understand? Russia is doing the pre-production research of how China will need to protect their economy when they put their military in Taiwan.
All of those things but also, supporting Russia's invasion of Ukraine is internally consistent with their views on Taiwan. They cannot denounce Russian aggression on Ukraine but still openly claim Taiwan.
China needs oil, minerals, wood and food. Russia has all of these so a good relationship to Russia is a guarantee for access to those things. A weakened Russia might even need "assistance" to keep Siberia - where all those mentioned things are found - safe.
It is pretty simple; a regional war in Ukraine weakens both the west and Russia while reducing their focus on China. China's best strategic interest is to keep the regional war going as long as possible. China is not really "helping" Russia, rather propping up one side of the information war to ensure the war grinds on.
Good. Lets hear all sides. Everyone should check out as many state propaganda around the world they can and not rely on just one state propaganda for "truth". All propaganda has innate biases and they all spin stories for their agenda. The easiest way to understand this is by looking at state propaganda around the world on a single topic like ukraine. Then you'll understand that truly, the truth is the first casualty of war. It's a luxury afforded to people not in war at the moment. So we should enjoy this privilege while we can.
> ...and downplay Russia's actions in launching an unprovoked invasion
I would argue it is not "unprovoked". By incorporating Ukraine, NATO will have a direct adjacent border with Russia head to head, and missiles will be placed along the border, right at Russia's doorstep, what a stupid strategy for world peace. Putin has told us over many years it's unacceptable for the Russians. Think when USSR tried to place missiles in Cuba.
Edit: for folks who clearly disagree, I'd like to recommend a speech by John Mearsheimer, which is currently gaining 3M views per day, now at 19M: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
Everything about the West's relationship with China is asymmetric.
I don't really blame China for realpolitik while trying to play catch up here, but I do wish they'd stop their expansionism. They already have enough people and resources to be the world #1 economy. Also the human rights violations are a bit of a mystery to me --- what's the point of a strong economy if people are suffering? Hopefully that will resolve itself in the same way the US used slave labor to bootstrap itself (unjustly, but it is what it is) then later banned it.
Always chuckle when we talk corporate or western state-sponsored propaganda yet "we" still have shit like this. Collusion between the private companies and governments is fascism, by definition. Which is what China does in their country, and which is what we sometimes allow, willingly or not, in our countries through the internet.
I personally am against censorship of any kind. And while that in principle means allowing propaganda garbage from all sides, it also means not censoring domestic "propaganda"(which could be anything depending on your reference) or material. People dislike this because having a personal filter is hard, but the alternative is arguably worse if you only allow a certain side.(which goes back to the first point of fascism by collusion)
Free Speech for individuals does not mean that we have an interest in allowing foreign and potentially hostile actors to run propaganda campaigns using the ad targeting machine we have built using social media.
They can say what they want and every citizen can do so as well, but we should not allow asymmetric amplification.
As someone who lives in a country where political advertising is illegal, I'm pretty confident you can shut that crap down without impacting free speech.
Nah, that's over. The American public is too delicate to be exposed to official state broadcasts because they might be biased towards the state that produced them.
It is the strategy one should worry. With china backed by Russia it is a much bigger problem latter as you have a more self contained (energy and military strategy) empire with a sidekick. It is more like North Korea but on a much bigger scale. Given so far no good strategy to contain its ambition, and the diversion of focus to Europe, china will dominate pacific and the link on the land bridge. Originally it might be a rivalary but now forced cooperation.
Not sure how this bigger game being played out.
Btw short term asking china to help … it its so ridiculous but pop up so many times it is not even funny. What happen china really can deliver and work with Russia what then …
Are we sure it is CCP IP address. CGTN might have established offices outside PRC and those might be the one publishing these.
Also, banning CGTN is not the way, just like banning RT wasn't. I can understand banning demonstrably false misinformation but that should be content specific, complete RT ban doesn't sit right with me.
Economist has published articles stating how Iraq war was justified or NYT with their WMD propoganda. RT was doing it at a massive scale but it doesn't seem right nonetheless.
War time: This foreign government bought ADS! They're promoting propaganda and influencing our policy, election, populace! My own government (which only tells the truth) must stop this from happening.
I'm uncomfortable with how this article talks about how evil the ads are without actually showing them. It's not clear to me who is doing the propaganda here (the ads vs the article about the ads).
[+] [-] floucky|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] msravi|4 years ago|reply
I mean, the confidence and elan with which a narrative is pushed by blatantly hiding contrarian views and even facts is fascinating to observe, especially when you're on the ground looking at stuff firsthand.
You really need to experience it to believe it.
[+] [-] throwaway4good|4 years ago|reply
Think of it what you will but it would be wrong to discard it as mere propaganda. These are deeply held beliefs.
[+] [-] ilyich|4 years ago|reply
A year ago Zelensky closed all opposition TV channels on the pretext they were pro-Russian. [0] Not one or two. All of them. Since then there is no opposition TV in Ukraine.
An extremely democratic move, isn't it?
[0] https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-zelenskiy-bans-three-oppositio...
[+] [-] jlduan|4 years ago|reply
Because quite a lot of people in China think US is organizing an Eastern NATO, to "destabilize" the whole region. For example, the nuclear-powered marine deal with Australia, etc. Biden’s first year was much harsher on China than Russia.
In 1999, NATO bombed the Chinese embassy, killing 3, that certainly did not help.
[+] [-] livinglist|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] waffleiron|4 years ago|reply
So what exactly did they say?
[+] [-] hkmaxpro|4 years ago|reply
They peddle Russia’s claim that US has bioweapons in Ukraine: https://www.newsweek.com/china-peddles-russias-claim-that-us...
And here’s CGTN’s article on “biolabs” in Ukraine, citing Russia media outlets and officials: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254330.shtml
Edit: As pointed out by a commenter, the above article is from GlobalTimes, not CGTN. The actual CGTN article: https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-03-07/Russia-reveals-evidenc...
[+] [-] droptablemain|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ksec|4 years ago|reply
The tweet is from Neil Cybart and WSJ. You may know him as one of the more accurate Apple analysts. And most people still to this day think either China miscalculated it, or China's official stance is somewhat unclear. ( Paul Graham )
And as usual, Benedict Evans has much better take on the situation. Mostly likely because of his major in History.
[1] https://twitter.com/neilcybart/status/1500825861242724352
[+] [-] DrinkWater|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Sol-|4 years ago|reply
Though perhaps they have to balance it with how it affects the world economy.
[+] [-] 5e92cb50239222b|4 years ago|reply
At least that's the general feeling among Russian economists whom I've been reading lately.
[+] [-] kstenerud|4 years ago|reply
Now they're basically compensating for Russia's mess (and won't ever let them forget that).
[+] [-] plussed_reader|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thereddaikon|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ourgon|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Element_|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pm90|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yyyk|4 years ago|reply
The Cold War has returned. Western politicians may refuse to see it, but reality has a way of making itself felt.
[+] [-] 9wzYQbTYsAIc|4 years ago|reply
They are ancient neighbors and have a vested interest in helping maintain global geopolitical harmony, just like all other globalized nations.
[+] [-] null_object|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qiskit|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MangoCoffee|4 years ago|reply
There is no all sides. a big fat kid beating up a skinny kid when that skinny kid did NOTHING to the big fat kid.
where's all sides? when you punch someone first regardless of your reason. you lose all moral high ground. especially Russia's reason is absurd.
i don't understand why people believe there is any sides to this war.
[+] [-] ZYinMD|4 years ago|reply
I would argue it is not "unprovoked". By incorporating Ukraine, NATO will have a direct adjacent border with Russia head to head, and missiles will be placed along the border, right at Russia's doorstep, what a stupid strategy for world peace. Putin has told us over many years it's unacceptable for the Russians. Think when USSR tried to place missiles in Cuba.
Edit: for folks who clearly disagree, I'd like to recommend a speech by John Mearsheimer, which is currently gaining 3M views per day, now at 19M: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
[+] [-] 323|4 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1501189465636839431
[+] [-] axiosgunnar|4 years ago|reply
So they are allowed to push their narrative onto Westerners, but the inverse is not allowed?
[+] [-] bagacrap|4 years ago|reply
I don't really blame China for realpolitik while trying to play catch up here, but I do wish they'd stop their expansionism. They already have enough people and resources to be the world #1 economy. Also the human rights violations are a bit of a mystery to me --- what's the point of a strong economy if people are suffering? Hopefully that will resolve itself in the same way the US used slave labor to bootstrap itself (unjustly, but it is what it is) then later banned it.
[+] [-] z0r|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sebow|4 years ago|reply
I personally am against censorship of any kind. And while that in principle means allowing propaganda garbage from all sides, it also means not censoring domestic "propaganda"(which could be anything depending on your reference) or material. People dislike this because having a personal filter is hard, but the alternative is arguably worse if you only allow a certain side.(which goes back to the first point of fascism by collusion)
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] ushtaritk421|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Slikey|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coffeeblack|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PoignardAzur|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] pessimizer|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] supermatt|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bushbaba|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mensetmanusman|4 years ago|reply
The only evidence is photoshopped maps. No one ever has a list of addresses to verify, ha.
[+] [-] ngcc_hk|4 years ago|reply
Not sure how this bigger game being played out.
Btw short term asking china to help … it its so ridiculous but pop up so many times it is not even funny. What happen china really can deliver and work with Russia what then …
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] curt15|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hrunt|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] actuator|4 years ago|reply
Also, banning CGTN is not the way, just like banning RT wasn't. I can understand banning demonstrably false misinformation but that should be content specific, complete RT ban doesn't sit right with me.
Economist has published articles stating how Iraq war was justified or NYT with their WMD propoganda. RT was doing it at a massive scale but it doesn't seem right nonetheless.
[+] [-] andrewclunn|4 years ago|reply
War time: This foreign government bought ADS! They're promoting propaganda and influencing our policy, election, populace! My own government (which only tells the truth) must stop this from happening.
[+] [-] Graffur|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] miohtama|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adultSwim|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bilbo0s|4 years ago|reply
Just, Devil's Advocate, but why can't it be both?