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Patent Troll: Anyone Using WiFi Infringes; Won't Sue Individuals 'At This Stage'

220 points| profitbaron | 14 years ago |techdirt.com | reply

94 comments

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[+] noonespecial|14 years ago|reply
Hams have been doing packet radio since the 70's in earnest and it's been around far longer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio

There is clearly prior art. When you make this big a nuisance of yourself, clearly exploiting the system at society's expense, you should be permanently disbarred. You are a clear and present danger to the continued operation of the justice system.

Edit: Might a flood of complaints to the bar association do some good here?

[+] redthrowaway|14 years ago|reply
Say what you will about the trolls; these guys have it figured out. They're targeting people with enough cash to make it go away, but not enough to mount a proper defence. Prior art doesn't enter the picture, as the trolls' targets are unlikely to retain counsel. When it costs as much to retain a lawyer as it does to make the issue go away, it's perfectly rational for the small business owner to pay up and move on. Tragedy of the commons at its finest. It's cynical, reprehensible, and evil, but it's a pretty solid business model.
[+] caf|14 years ago|reply
The existence of packet radio doesn't necessarily constitute prior art. The patents are far more likely to be on certain very narrowly defined processes that are arguably implemented in a WiFi system than on a very broad field like "digital communication over radio". If the hams didn't use the particular techniques at issue, then that wouldn't constitute prior art.

You really need to read the specific claims in the patents themselves to figure out how to invalidate or avoid the patents.

[+] waterhouse|14 years ago|reply
The book "Against Intellectual Monopoly" is highly recommended reading for the question of patents (and other intellectual property). The authors make a mostly empirical survey of the effects of intellectual property laws and of their absence in a wide range of industries, and conclude that their effect is a stifling rather than an encouragement of innovation. I think it's especially appropriate because, while my own opinion on the issue comes from moral reasoning (and it's generally frustrating to try to argue that side), this book presents a wealth of stories and statistics that are just plain interesting to anyone who cares about the issue.

http://www.dklevine.com/papers/imbookfinalall.pdf

[+] kprobst|14 years ago|reply
Intellectual property and patents are not the problem, the problem is the broken system around them that allows these types of abuses.
[+] radu_floricica|14 years ago|reply
I've read that the possibility to patent genes led to the explosion of the field some years back. Are there such positive examples discussed in the book?
[+] Bud|14 years ago|reply
Leeches. Someone should destroy these folks. Legally and peacefully, of course. But they must be destroyed.
[+] beedogs|14 years ago|reply
I'd honestly prefer someone did it with a MOAB at this point.
[+] prawn|14 years ago|reply
Not keen on the word "folk" being used to describe them because it has a more homely feel to it, for a common purpose, etc. These people are scum.
[+] danssig|14 years ago|reply
It would probably be more effective and work faster if victims of this nonsense just started showing up at these people's houses with ski masks and baseball bats.
[+] mrspandex|14 years ago|reply
I really hope they do start suing individuals. Congressmen, and judges specifically.
[+] kylec|14 years ago|reply
Patent trolls may be evil, but they're not stupid. The best we can hope for is for them to sue a close friend of a congressman or judge.
[+] diego_moita|14 years ago|reply
This is very nice!

Politicians will only solve a problem after it becomes a calamity. If the problem gets bad enough, they might start paying attention.

[+] fleitz|14 years ago|reply
I thought politicians just made things worse after problems become calamities. The calamity just alerts them to the fact that there is money to be made being part of the problem.

Watch for campaign contributions to start flowing before these companies start suing regular people.

[+] Astrohacker|14 years ago|reply
Politicians created the problem by creating IP laws. If they "solve" it, they will undoubtedly just introduce some new problem.
[+] prawn|14 years ago|reply
Politicians would notice more quickly if they were ever reliant on coffee shop wireless and not working from expensive Blackberry accounts.
[+] tlogan|14 years ago|reply
This is actually a very good development. This will help that even general public start understanding "patent troll" problem which, in turn, will get some ears in in Washington.

I hope that more and more opportunistic lawyers join the "patent troll" bandwagon. Eventually, some of them will not say "wont sue individuals" because they will understand that changes in IP laws are going to happen soon: make money now or never (very similar to what was happening just before the housing crash of 2008). Then the politicians will act. Hopefully, giving bailouts and not doing reforms will not work for this issue.

Is there anything we can do to speed up this process?

[+] tjmc|14 years ago|reply
Of course - only sue politicians, the media and anyone else with political influence. Give them 2 options:

1. Pay - where all proceeds will be used to acquire more frivolous patents and lawyers to sue them again

2. Change the law to ban all software patents

[+] MrUnknown|14 years ago|reply
While I hate what you are saying, I completely agree with it.
[+] mkjones|14 years ago|reply
It sounds like they're going after small business owners individually, so not necessarily "any old joe." Still, this gives me hope given how hot small businesses are in the current political climate. Perhaps targeting one or two of the wrong (read: noisy and politically-connected) owners will result in an outcome at least slightly positive for patent reform?
[+] plink|14 years ago|reply
Do the descendants of Joseph Guillotin still hold the patent on his invention? I fancy a scenario unfolding in today's environment that might vastly enrich his heirs.
[+] pavel_lishin|14 years ago|reply
> While its initial lawsuits against coffee shops and restaurants did focus on the central corporations, with the hotels, Innovatio appears to be focusing on individual franchisees. Yes, the small businesses who own individual hotels and probably have no idea how to deal with a patent infringement lawsuit -- all because they dared to offer WiFi somewhere in their hotels. To make it "easy" of course, Innovatio's lawyers will let them settle for between $2,300 and $5,000. In almost every case, that's going to be cheaper than hiring a lawyer to just get started dealing with this -- which I'm sure is exactly what Innovatio intends.

Isn't this precisely the sort of thing that can be forwarded to corporate? Someone who owns a Motel 6 would surely expect the corporation to help them with this, no?

[+] colanderman|14 years ago|reply
Ya but your local B&B can't deal with this. They need to mobilize now and pool together to buy good legal defense.
[+] octopus|14 years ago|reply
I'm not a lawyer, so my question is simple - say that you receive a citation from Innovation and you simply ignore this. What then ? They will actually take you to court ?
[+] hvs|14 years ago|reply
Well, if you ignore it and they get a default judgement against you (i.e. they find that you are infringing) then they can do lots of things to make sure you pay up. IANAL so you would want to talk to one if this happens.
[+] jcromartie|14 years ago|reply
This is exactly what I have been wondering. The case has no merit: they can't sue me for buying a Linksys router, can they?
[+] colinhowe|14 years ago|reply
Does anyone know what these patents claim to cover? "wifi" seems a bit broad
[+] sukuriant|14 years ago|reply
What is this patent actually for? I was looking up wifi, and the precursor to 802.11 came out in '91. That's well over 17 years ago.
[+] greatreorx|14 years ago|reply
US Patent 6714559 is one they sued several hotels over. It was filed in 2001 but was a string of 6 continuations of a patent filed November, 1991.
[+] felipemnoa|14 years ago|reply
After getting sued a good course of action would be to sue the manufacturer for loses incurred. At least that would get their attention. Somebody could start a class action lawsuit agains the manufacturer.
[+] tjr|14 years ago|reply
They should be suing the manufacturers in the first place. Even if we were to assume for a moment that this patent has any validity whatsoever, it would not be the users of the wireless router than owe them a royalty payment, but the router manufacturers. And I seriously doubt that a fair royalty on a single router (such as what you might find in one of these small coffeeshops that they are suing) is in the thousands of dollars.
[+] DanBC|14 years ago|reply
Someone needs to set up a Patent Troll company and patent a bunch of processes for political methods / action / campaigning / etc.

Then start trolling politicians.

[+] crizCraig|14 years ago|reply
The patent is from 2004. http://www.google.com/patents?id=zi8SAAAAEBAJ&printsec=a...

I hope their greed gets the best of them. Here's a poll I created to get general feedback on this subject. It's so infuriating to me, but a lot of people seem to be indifferent on the subject of patents: http://www.wepolls.com/p/3363896/

[+] machrider|14 years ago|reply
If they applied for the patent in 2001, how can they possibly sue users of wifi? 802.11 has been around longer than that.
[+] SODaniel|14 years ago|reply
Good luck with that one Trolls.