The weirdest thing about the Advantage is the hollow echo sound it makes. I'm using a $300+ keyboard but it sounds so cheap due to the hollow sound. It seems so obvious after first typing on it.
Besides that, it's an excellent keyboard and I'll never, ever buy a regular keyboard again. Everything else about the design makes sense, and it's completely programmable.
Couldn’t stand the small rubber nub function keys, and the as you mentioned the echo was off-putting. Also zero customizability in the split nature since it’s one massive plastic hunk…. Excited for the advantage 360 this summer as they finally are addressing this by going split and ditching the function keys
I used a piece of mass loaded vinyl to cut out that echoey twang. I also used some rubber o rings to dampen the key sound. Between the two, the keyboard is a lot better.
Yes, coders will never type 180 wpm with most other solutions but isn’t it about time we found other ways to let people enter information with computers.
I thought it was supposed to be out in December? Either way I have owned an Advantage and an Advantage 2 and they're the best non-gaming keyboards I've worked with, by a significant margin, so yeah I'm excited to get the 360.
I've used an original Advantage for most of the last 10-15 years; it's a TANK of a keyboard and I love it.
I bought a KeyChron -- conventional style, but smaller -- to use with an iPad last year, but it's ended up being my go-to at my desk due partly to the great key feel and smaller footprint, but also because it turns out backlighting is a really nice thing to have.
This weekend I was working in the garden, having an epic battle with the bamboo infestation, and messed up my hands badly.[0]
The pain and soreness in my hands made me notice something: My thumb hurts when I use it to hit the command key! And my pinky hurts when I hit ctrl!
This, along with a generous bonus from my work, inspired me to cut the problem off at the pass and invest in a Moonlander keyboard. I love weird controls and input methods, so it doubles as a quirky hobby purchase for me as well.
That being said: I am absolutely ready for the day we have viable alternatives to finger typing. I would also love a way to interact with my phone better. I've looked at the "twiddler" one-handed chorded keyboard, but it seems like a gimmick.
I remember a few years ago there was a promising project that read your keystrokes through your wrists. Hopefully something like that will pan out in the near future.
0: Basically... i was using pruning sheers to cut through the bamboo by squeezing the shears really hard. I KNOW I AM AN IDIOT. I already ordered a hand saw for my next battle.
My "why didn't I think of this earlier" tip for the Moonlander is to associate the .bin files you download from configurator with the Wally app, so you can just download and launch flashing from your browser.
Also, pair that with sticking a "Reset" button on an out of the way layer so you can reset your KB without needing a paper clip or similar poking tool.
Could be something you can't do if you already use .bin files elsewhere in your system (embedded programming work perhaps), but if you can swing it, it was really convenient the first month or two I had my Moonlander. I often made two to three changes to my layout per day the first couple of weeks, then 2-3 changes per week the next month or two.
I personally love the clicky sound of the Advantage 2. I switched to it some time last year after having RSI related symptoms. Since the keyboard required me to retrain muscle memory I also ended up switching to Dvorak (wrote about it at https://geekmonkey.org/learning-to-type-dvorak/).
It took a significant amount of time to get back up to speed, but some time last month it finally "clicked" and I couldn't be happier.
Definitely wish the keyboard was a bit more portable for travel, but for short stints I can stomach typing on a regular laptop keyboard.
As for the Kinesis 360: I recently saw it in use on a twitch stream (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1422298932) and it looked fantastic. Looks like the general public will have to wait until later this year to actually buy it though.
I would've used something other than clips/o-rings to dampen the sound of the switches, since that generally muddies the feel of them.
I recently switched from MX Blue to Zilent 65g (https://zealpc.net/products/zilent?variant=5894817710118) on my Moonlander in preparation for bringing it to the office. It sounds like any membrane keyboard while retaining the tactile feel of a MX Blue/Brown.
Drive-by suggestion for Boba u4's. It's very much a personal feel, but in my head to head comparison of Zilents and Boba u4's on a Moonlander, I found the Boba to be more to my liking.
IMO, there was a stronger tactile bump on the u4 and they seemed a bit quieter to me.
Another ergo keyboard I am on the lookout for is the Glove80. Been happy with the moonlander but I am really interested in something completely wireless and not as expensive as the AM Hatsu.
After a week of adjustment and constant tweaking of the layout (Wally is so nice), I have to say my Moonlander fixed most of my shoulder, forearm and wrist issues.
When people asked about the price, I told them some days I spend more time on my keyboard than on my bed.
I just wish I could put a trackpoint right between YUHJ buttons and never use my mouse again.
Off topic but this post will attract Kinesis users... Does anyone know how to deal with ghosting on the Kinesis Advantage?I bought a used one but quite often it repeats the letters that I press and that's not how it's supposed to work. I haven't used it in years but it would be interesting to fix it. I know it's possible to change the controller, but how do I know if that is the issue?
If you have an original Advantage, IIRC that was one of the known issues that got fixed in the Advantage2 (or perhaps one of the Advantage2 firmware updates). I'm having trouble finding a source now, but Kinesis' site does state:
> "The firmware of the original Advantage was developed prior to the advent of modern operating systems and USB 3.0. As a result, it is not uncommon for original Advantage keyboards to become unreliable when used on newer PCs and operating systems as they were not designed with these protocols in mind." [0]
I have 2 KA2's, one for my personal and work rigs, respectively. I've honestly never had a problem with their noise level, they sound pretty much the same as any other modern and commonly available mechanical keyboard.
For shits-n-gigs I bought a Dactyl Ergodox from Oh My Keycaps, I'm still waiting on it to be delivered but I'm really stoked. I would never go back to a typical keyboard.
Perhaps I'm just used to mechanical switches noise (I'm typing this on a Kinesis Advantage v1 and have used the older contoured model before that), but would like to ask - once you silenced the casing noise, what was it about the switches-noise that you didn't like?
It might be a recent change, but th Advantage 2 is available with "MX Quiet red" keys that are dramatically quieter than the default. I recently switched to this one after complaints from my officemate.
[+] [-] uses|4 years ago|reply
Besides that, it's an excellent keyboard and I'll never, ever buy a regular keyboard again. Everything else about the design makes sense, and it's completely programmable.
[+] [-] reasonabl_human|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Hnrobert42|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melling|4 years ago|reply
Patient: “Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this”
Doctor: “Then don’t do that”
I’ve been reading RSI stories for almost 30 years.
http://xahlee.info/emacs/emacs/emacs_hand_pain_celebrity.htm...
Yes, coders will never type 180 wpm with most other solutions but isn’t it about time we found other ways to let people enter information with computers.
This solution from 7 years ago is memorable:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8805053
[+] [-] toyg|4 years ago|reply
Maybe we should realize the human body is just not built for extremely repetitive actions, and work our way from there.
[+] [-] andrewcl|4 years ago|reply
https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/
[+] [-] cholantesh|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ubermonkey|4 years ago|reply
I've used an original Advantage for most of the last 10-15 years; it's a TANK of a keyboard and I love it.
I bought a KeyChron -- conventional style, but smaller -- to use with an iPad last year, but it's ended up being my go-to at my desk due partly to the great key feel and smaller footprint, but also because it turns out backlighting is a really nice thing to have.
A backlit Advantage sounds awesome.
[+] [-] honkycat|4 years ago|reply
The pain and soreness in my hands made me notice something: My thumb hurts when I use it to hit the command key! And my pinky hurts when I hit ctrl!
This, along with a generous bonus from my work, inspired me to cut the problem off at the pass and invest in a Moonlander keyboard. I love weird controls and input methods, so it doubles as a quirky hobby purchase for me as well.
That being said: I am absolutely ready for the day we have viable alternatives to finger typing. I would also love a way to interact with my phone better. I've looked at the "twiddler" one-handed chorded keyboard, but it seems like a gimmick.
I remember a few years ago there was a promising project that read your keystrokes through your wrists. Hopefully something like that will pan out in the near future.
0: Basically... i was using pruning sheers to cut through the bamboo by squeezing the shears really hard. I KNOW I AM AN IDIOT. I already ordered a hand saw for my next battle.
[+] [-] ajford|4 years ago|reply
Also, pair that with sticking a "Reset" button on an out of the way layer so you can reset your KB without needing a paper clip or similar poking tool.
Could be something you can't do if you already use .bin files elsewhere in your system (embedded programming work perhaps), but if you can swing it, it was really convenient the first month or two I had my Moonlander. I often made two to three changes to my layout per day the first couple of weeks, then 2-3 changes per week the next month or two.
A year in now and my last tweak was 6 months ago.
[+] [-] halfdan|4 years ago|reply
It took a significant amount of time to get back up to speed, but some time last month it finally "clicked" and I couldn't be happier.
Definitely wish the keyboard was a bit more portable for travel, but for short stints I can stomach typing on a regular laptop keyboard.
As for the Kinesis 360: I recently saw it in use on a twitch stream (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1422298932) and it looked fantastic. Looks like the general public will have to wait until later this year to actually buy it though.
[+] [-] mynameisvlad|4 years ago|reply
I recently switched from MX Blue to Zilent 65g (https://zealpc.net/products/zilent?variant=5894817710118) on my Moonlander in preparation for bringing it to the office. It sounds like any membrane keyboard while retaining the tactile feel of a MX Blue/Brown.
[+] [-] ajford|4 years ago|reply
Drive-by suggestion for Boba u4's. It's very much a personal feel, but in my head to head comparison of Zilents and Boba u4's on a Moonlander, I found the Boba to be more to my liking.
IMO, there was a stronger tactile bump on the u4 and they seemed a bit quieter to me.
[+] [-] rak|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] volfied|4 years ago|reply
When people asked about the price, I told them some days I spend more time on my keyboard than on my bed.
I just wish I could put a trackpoint right between YUHJ buttons and never use my mouse again.
[+] [-] cinntaile|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dwringer|4 years ago|reply
> "The firmware of the original Advantage was developed prior to the advent of modern operating systems and USB 3.0. As a result, it is not uncommon for original Advantage keyboards to become unreliable when used on newer PCs and operating systems as they were not designed with these protocols in mind." [0]
[0] https://kinesis-ergo.com/support/advantage/
[+] [-] LichenStone|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] irateswami|4 years ago|reply
For shits-n-gigs I bought a Dactyl Ergodox from Oh My Keycaps, I'm still waiting on it to be delivered but I'm really stoked. I would never go back to a typical keyboard.
[+] [-] ubermonkey|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajolly|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] almog|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ahupp|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DiabloD3|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jtth|4 years ago|reply