I thought the point of "terrorism" is to inflict change on behaviors and confidence of a population? Changing someone's way of life impacts their confidence which seems to be the end goal of terrorism. It stands to reason that in order to make it an ineffective tactic, change as little as possible within the population and do not react.
TBH I have been thinking about this since 9/11. I doubt it was that philosophical. They wanted to show that they could attack us. And they did. They had ZERO, no tech, no highly trained snipers and marines, very little funding (compare al-qaida's funding with the US Government's). It is us who did it all. We "refuse to be terrorized" but instead we give up liberties like they are tumors that we will gladly shed to increase our perceived chances of survival.
To be honest, I'm not sure that surrendering my bottle of water at airports has impacted my confidence that much. It's not like the experience of passing through airports was an effortless pleasure before. A couple of days ago I spent an hour waiting in line whilst a couple of hundred passengers, some of them possessing five or more suitcases, put every item of their baggage through a single X-ray machine, whilst other security operatives hand-searched the entire contents of selected suitcases. I'm pretty sure the reason Quito doesn't have a green zone in customs has nothing to do with al-Qaeda setting up bases in the Andes though.
As for other measures like the Patriot Act, I'm not sure that security theatre was the prime motivation for their introduction.
Forget terrorism. This is EXACTLY the same as God and Elevators. Think about it. Lets start easy:
I see people every day come into an elevator and press the door close button like it is the only way to get air. Nobody realizes that the button does nothing. Furthermore many do, but they do it any ways on the off chance that it saves them an extra millisecond here or there of waiting. It never gives any benefit. However "may as well do it just in case it works". Trivial to disprove but still.
God: People worship. Why? Do we know god does exist? no we don't. In fact all signs point to got not existing. Why worship though? On the off chance that god does exist and we won't go to hell. It does not matter that there is no god, people will still worship.
Both examples are ways for people to feel better about something they can't control and makes them feel that they can.
Now the TSA is exactly the same. It makes no difference, or it does, all signs point to the TSA being complete horsecrap, but people want it just in case there is a possibility they can prevent an act of terrorism and save 10 people at the price of insane expenses, time expenses, people unalbe to travel, personal rights violated, etc.
> I see people every day come into an elevator and press the door close button like it is the only way to get air. Nobody realizes that the button does nothing. Furthermore many do, but they do it any ways on the off chance that it saves them an extra millisecond here or there of waiting. It never gives any benefit. However "may as well do it just in case it works". Trivial to disprove but still
The close door button on the elevators in my work building work as follows:
1. After summoning the elevator, if I enter and press the door close button, the door immediately starts to close--even if I have not selected a destination. If I do not press the door close button, the door closes automatically after several seconds.
2. If I press the door open button to interrupt a door closing, as soon as the door finishes opening the door close button makes it close. If the door close is not pressed, the door closed on its own after approximately five seconds.
3. When the elevator arrives at a destination floor, if I press the door close as soon as the door finishes opening, it immediately starts closing. If I do not press the button, the door opens, waits several seconds, then closes.
Conclusion: your theories on elevator operation are inconsistent with experiment.
After spending an entire semester in a course on the philosophy of religion and revieing things like the Scopes Monkey Trial during law school, I see arguments both for an against the existence of God.
I think there is no proof either way. I personally believe in God and am in fact Christian, but that is a personal choice based on faith and I have great respect for people who have chosen other faiths or who believe that there is no God.
This however is different. It can be shown that certain security measures actually are quite useful (sturdy, locked cockpit doors separating pilots and passengers for instance.) It can be shown that others are completely ineffective at their stated goals and seek only to avoid "donothingism" and fall into security theater
dlikhten quote: Nobody realizes that the button does nothing.
I wanted to point out that the door open/close buttons definitely have a function when the elevator is operating in emergency mode.
Allow me to expand further with an example scenario:
First off, an elevator's emergency operation mode is engaged by using a key. You may have noticed the keyhole before in an elevator car; it is typically located near the floor selection panel. It is primarily used by firefighter's or emergency personnel, in order to take control of the elevators.
Next, imagine a hypothetical elevator situation. The elevator is in normal operation mode. You step into an empty elevator car at floor 1, and you select floor 14 as your destination. Someone else enters the elevator car with you, and selects floor 3 as the destination. Now, floor 3 and floor 14 have been selected and are illuminated on the floor selection panel.
Assuming no other factors, the elevator car stops at floor 3, the doors automatically open, and the person that selected floor 3 steps out. But wait... you decide to step out too, because you need to hit the restroom. As it turns out, no one is entering the elevator car that you and the passenger just exited at floor 3. The elevator car is now empty.
What happens now?
The doors automatically close. No one is on board the elevator car that you just exited, and floor 14 is still selected. This is immutable; assuming no other factors, the elevator car will eventually make it to floor 14, or be stopped by other passengers that are waiting for that elevator car before it gets there. In either case, the elevator car is out of your control.
Now, think of it from a firefighter's perspective. A firefighter does not want to be in a scenario where the elevator car is capable of leaving a floor, without his or her express command, regardless of whether the elevator car is being called by someone else, or if a floor has been selected and no one is in the elevator car.
This is what the door close button is for when an elevator is in emergency operation mode. In this mode, the desired floor is selected, then the door close button must be fully engaged and held until the elevator car begins to move. If the door close button is released before the elevator car begins to move, the doors will automatically open, and the elevator car will remain on the current floor.
In emergency operation mode, when an elevator car arrives at the selected floor, the doors will not automatically open. The open door button must be fully engaged and held in order for the doors to fully open. If the open door button is released before the doors are fully opened, the doors will automatically close. This functionality is designed to allow a firefighter to partially open the doors in order to assess a situation (e.g., fire, smoke, etc.), again, at his or her express command. Otherwise, the doors would automatically open fully, potentially exposing the firefighter to flames, or quickly filling the elevator car with smoke.
Small hack: in many elevators, pushing and holding the close button then hitting your destination prevents it from stopping at any intermediate level. IIRC it always works in Otis elevators, for the other YMMV. It's a sure way to annoy your fellow passengers when ascending, and a sure way to annoy people waiting for the elevator at descent :)
I love Asimov's stories, but it always pains me at how wrong his guesses were in regards to what would be easy and what would be difficult when it came to robotics.
Most of Asimov's stories are not hard SF and he frequently plays very loose with science when it suits his story (or occassionally a point he is trying to make through the story.)
This is clearer in the Foundation Series than it is in his Robot books, but it becomes blatantly obvious in The End of Eternity which only barely pays lip service to science, yet makes beautiful points about human nature in a painstakingly crafted and entertaining story.
Since no one has successfully made a robot worthy of an Asimov story, I would say that no one knows what is easy vs hard when it comes to robotics. We can make guesses but in the end until someone has a working copy, we won't know which parts of the development process were the most painful.
I always find myself thinking back to the Foundation series. In one of the novels he envisions a world where the populous can all instantly communicate by thinking, including with rocks and trees. He describes how the civilizations memories are stored in the rocks themselves.
I'm always struck by how that doesn't actually sound far fetched to me, but how crazy it must have sounded then.
[+] [-] Francon|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dlikhten|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notahacker|14 years ago|reply
As for other measures like the Patriot Act, I'm not sure that security theatre was the prime motivation for their introduction.
[+] [-] unknown|14 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|14 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dlikhten|14 years ago|reply
I see people every day come into an elevator and press the door close button like it is the only way to get air. Nobody realizes that the button does nothing. Furthermore many do, but they do it any ways on the off chance that it saves them an extra millisecond here or there of waiting. It never gives any benefit. However "may as well do it just in case it works". Trivial to disprove but still.
God: People worship. Why? Do we know god does exist? no we don't. In fact all signs point to got not existing. Why worship though? On the off chance that god does exist and we won't go to hell. It does not matter that there is no god, people will still worship.
Both examples are ways for people to feel better about something they can't control and makes them feel that they can.
Now the TSA is exactly the same. It makes no difference, or it does, all signs point to the TSA being complete horsecrap, but people want it just in case there is a possibility they can prevent an act of terrorism and save 10 people at the price of insane expenses, time expenses, people unalbe to travel, personal rights violated, etc.
[+] [-] tzs|14 years ago|reply
The close door button on the elevators in my work building work as follows:
1. After summoning the elevator, if I enter and press the door close button, the door immediately starts to close--even if I have not selected a destination. If I do not press the door close button, the door closes automatically after several seconds.
2. If I press the door open button to interrupt a door closing, as soon as the door finishes opening the door close button makes it close. If the door close is not pressed, the door closed on its own after approximately five seconds.
3. When the elevator arrives at a destination floor, if I press the door close as soon as the door finishes opening, it immediately starts closing. If I do not press the button, the door opens, waits several seconds, then closes.
Conclusion: your theories on elevator operation are inconsistent with experiment.
[+] [-] jrosenblatt|14 years ago|reply
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/insidenova/2010/12/the-great-el...
[+] [-] timwiseman|14 years ago|reply
I think there is no proof either way. I personally believe in God and am in fact Christian, but that is a personal choice based on faith and I have great respect for people who have chosen other faiths or who believe that there is no God.
This however is different. It can be shown that certain security measures actually are quite useful (sturdy, locked cockpit doors separating pilots and passengers for instance.) It can be shown that others are completely ineffective at their stated goals and seek only to avoid "donothingism" and fall into security theater
[+] [-] Arjuna|14 years ago|reply
I wanted to point out that the door open/close buttons definitely have a function when the elevator is operating in emergency mode.
Allow me to expand further with an example scenario:
First off, an elevator's emergency operation mode is engaged by using a key. You may have noticed the keyhole before in an elevator car; it is typically located near the floor selection panel. It is primarily used by firefighter's or emergency personnel, in order to take control of the elevators.
Next, imagine a hypothetical elevator situation. The elevator is in normal operation mode. You step into an empty elevator car at floor 1, and you select floor 14 as your destination. Someone else enters the elevator car with you, and selects floor 3 as the destination. Now, floor 3 and floor 14 have been selected and are illuminated on the floor selection panel.
Assuming no other factors, the elevator car stops at floor 3, the doors automatically open, and the person that selected floor 3 steps out. But wait... you decide to step out too, because you need to hit the restroom. As it turns out, no one is entering the elevator car that you and the passenger just exited at floor 3. The elevator car is now empty.
What happens now?
The doors automatically close. No one is on board the elevator car that you just exited, and floor 14 is still selected. This is immutable; assuming no other factors, the elevator car will eventually make it to floor 14, or be stopped by other passengers that are waiting for that elevator car before it gets there. In either case, the elevator car is out of your control.
Now, think of it from a firefighter's perspective. A firefighter does not want to be in a scenario where the elevator car is capable of leaving a floor, without his or her express command, regardless of whether the elevator car is being called by someone else, or if a floor has been selected and no one is in the elevator car.
This is what the door close button is for when an elevator is in emergency operation mode. In this mode, the desired floor is selected, then the door close button must be fully engaged and held until the elevator car begins to move. If the door close button is released before the elevator car begins to move, the doors will automatically open, and the elevator car will remain on the current floor.
In emergency operation mode, when an elevator car arrives at the selected floor, the doors will not automatically open. The open door button must be fully engaged and held in order for the doors to fully open. If the open door button is released before the doors are fully opened, the doors will automatically close. This functionality is designed to allow a firefighter to partially open the doors in order to assess a situation (e.g., fire, smoke, etc.), again, at his or her express command. Otherwise, the doors would automatically open fully, potentially exposing the firefighter to flames, or quickly filling the elevator car with smoke.
[+] [-] dantheman|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wazoox|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pavel_lishin|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] timwiseman|14 years ago|reply
This is clearer in the Foundation Series than it is in his Robot books, but it becomes blatantly obvious in The End of Eternity which only barely pays lip service to science, yet makes beautiful points about human nature in a painstakingly crafted and entertaining story.
[+] [-] jxcole|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lukejduncan|14 years ago|reply
I'm always struck by how that doesn't actually sound far fetched to me, but how crazy it must have sounded then.