As a little anecdote, during my computer science studies i had exactly one female student in a ~50 student class. A mandatory class, so that was it for female students that semester. That was general computer science. Those then split up into different specializations for their future line of work. From personal experience, quite a few theoretical computer scientists and more or less the rest into big data. Who went there for the math. People might be shocked to hear this, but not many little girls dream about becoming computer engineers. And i cant really blame them. Having to deal with registers and assembly isnt such an attractive proposition.
Dont get me wrong, they sure exist, however not enough of them to fill any sort of meaningful quota. I have one female colleague in the department and she is very annoyed to be begged to be the token female. And not at all interested.
It was somewhere along that road that it dawned on me that i have yet to meet any female colleague in computer engineering who thought any sort of quotas to be a good idea. They are obvious nonsense implemented by people who never in a thousand years would think about about going into that profession themselves. You cant use them to force people into existence. And outside of kidnapping first semester Psychology or MBA students there isnt much reason to be optimistic for quotas in the future.
This is because of " boys are prince, girls are princesses" and "blue is for boys and pink (or red) is for girls" propaganda. I went to faculty in an eastern europe country and we did not had such crap shaming of jobs based on gender.
> People might be shocked to hear this, but not many little girls dream about becoming computer engineers.
In my experience the majority of new high school grads do not choose their uni program based on a deep passion. Usually, they don't even have one or don't know what it is.
I studied CS in Germany at 2 different faculties, and there was a large discrepancy between the first (~15% non-male), and the second (~35% non-male). The second faculty had a lot more female professors, I also suspect that having a more equal gender ratio benefits an even more equal gender ratio: The idea of being a small minority in your degree is just not very appealing, and the negative stereotypes on male CS students are pretty off-putting to women. These do also seem to hold true for a sad subset of the student body.
So the issue isn't event that they didn't give awards to women or ethnic minorities, it's that the women and ethnic minorities weren't available for the group photo.
This response makes no sense.
The decision, announced by the Snow Medical Research Foundation on 7 March, comes after the
University of Melbourne released a picture of six white men — but no women or people of colour
— receiving honorary degrees, one of the university’s highest accolades, in a ceremony on 28
February
...
James McCluskey, deputy vice-chancellor of research at the university, says that other people,
including three women and an Indigenous man, were scheduled to receive honorary awards that day
but weren’t able to make it.
This is definitely a thing I've observed (marginalised groups being missed out of the photos). Why weren't they able to make it? Was it because they were only asked last minute? Is it because they keep getting cut out the loop? Some sort of passive protest? A deliberately awkward schedule?
If M&M's were being randomly drawn from a jar...but the ones drawn were ~90% green - how long should a reasonable person take to conclude that either the ones in the jar are a "stacked deck", or else the "random draw" process is anything but?
"When Tom Snow, who chairs Snow Medical, saw the photo, and realized that everyone was white and male, his heart sank, he says."
So, that Tom doesn't even care about the science, he sees race and gender of applicants and immediately makes a decision.
Edit: if one of those applicants has a novel idea to solve the climate problem, it won't matter to Tom, unless the applicant has appropriate skin color.
The funny thing is that the picture doesn't even depict the reality.
"James McCluskey, deputy vice-chancellor of research at the university, says that other people, including three women and an Indigenous man, were scheduled to receive honorary awards that day but weren’t able to make it."
So basically all the hoopla was due to some people missing an appointment, a picture and a bunch of assumptions.
As a brown man, my heart too would sink. Not because I hate white males, but because it makes me feel as if I'm not adequate. That if no brown men have made it to that point, how could I?
This is all about perspective. Is my perspective here logical? No. Am I blaming these white men? No. Representation matters to minorities. It helps us "feel" like we can actually achieve stuff.
It's difficult to explain this perspective to white people. But too often I see white people dismiss this perspective, seeing it as an attack on _them_. But it really isn't about white people.
Is there some science to indicate that 'researchers support' like some kind of private/anonymous survey to measure the mood?
Or just the one's they've spoken to, or possibly worse, it's just something essentially 'made up'.
Otherwise I fear its basically narrative fabrication, which is the opposite of news.
These are tricky subjects they require thoughtfulness, nuance etc..
Ham-fisted approaches to communications I feel will not work in the end.
This is rather ominous:
"What remained were the six white men, and “rather stupidly, someone took a photo and posted it, thinking it was something to celebrate”, says McCluskey. “It backfired very badly.”"
Seriously. You just read that. It was 'rather stupid' to take a photo of the people who showed up to receive the award. Because Race. While the issue is serious in a systematic way, again, this is getting bad.
From a quick read-over, I don't sense that either the grant programme or Nature bothered digging much deeper than the photo. Even really basic stuff, like finding out how sexist & racist the women & minorities on campus think the place is.
Obvious Lesson: #1 Must-Do for universities is to have a first-rate troop of women & minority actors on hand, whenever "unfortunate" photos might be taken, to present shallow decision-makers with the "right" image.
[+] [-] cf141q5325|4 years ago|reply
Dont get me wrong, they sure exist, however not enough of them to fill any sort of meaningful quota. I have one female colleague in the department and she is very annoyed to be begged to be the token female. And not at all interested.
It was somewhere along that road that it dawned on me that i have yet to meet any female colleague in computer engineering who thought any sort of quotas to be a good idea. They are obvious nonsense implemented by people who never in a thousand years would think about about going into that profession themselves. You cant use them to force people into existence. And outside of kidnapping first semester Psychology or MBA students there isnt much reason to be optimistic for quotas in the future.
[+] [-] hulitu|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bakuninsbart|4 years ago|reply
In my experience the majority of new high school grads do not choose their uni program based on a deep passion. Usually, they don't even have one or don't know what it is.
I studied CS in Germany at 2 different faculties, and there was a large discrepancy between the first (~15% non-male), and the second (~35% non-male). The second faculty had a lot more female professors, I also suspect that having a more equal gender ratio benefits an even more equal gender ratio: The idea of being a small minority in your degree is just not very appealing, and the negative stereotypes on male CS students are pretty off-putting to women. These do also seem to hold true for a sad subset of the student body.
[+] [-] aahortwwy|4 years ago|reply
This simply isn't true in many cultures. So why is it the case in the West?
[+] [-] rnmwfQ3f|4 years ago|reply
This response makes no sense.
[+] [-] chaircher|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sn00tz00t|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joemazerino|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bell-cot|4 years ago|reply
Is that "reasonable person" anti-green?
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] EliRivers|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bogantech|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] akomtu|4 years ago|reply
So, that Tom doesn't even care about the science, he sees race and gender of applicants and immediately makes a decision.
Edit: if one of those applicants has a novel idea to solve the climate problem, it won't matter to Tom, unless the applicant has appropriate skin color.
[+] [-] ratww|4 years ago|reply
"James McCluskey, deputy vice-chancellor of research at the university, says that other people, including three women and an Indigenous man, were scheduled to receive honorary awards that day but weren’t able to make it."
So basically all the hoopla was due to some people missing an appointment, a picture and a bunch of assumptions.
[+] [-] 0xdeadb00f|4 years ago|reply
This is all about perspective. Is my perspective here logical? No. Am I blaming these white men? No. Representation matters to minorities. It helps us "feel" like we can actually achieve stuff.
It's difficult to explain this perspective to white people. But too often I see white people dismiss this perspective, seeing it as an attack on _them_. But it really isn't about white people.
[+] [-] EliRivers|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jollybean|4 years ago|reply
Is there some science to indicate that 'researchers support' like some kind of private/anonymous survey to measure the mood?
Or just the one's they've spoken to, or possibly worse, it's just something essentially 'made up'.
Otherwise I fear its basically narrative fabrication, which is the opposite of news.
These are tricky subjects they require thoughtfulness, nuance etc..
Ham-fisted approaches to communications I feel will not work in the end.
This is rather ominous:
"What remained were the six white men, and “rather stupidly, someone took a photo and posted it, thinking it was something to celebrate”, says McCluskey. “It backfired very badly.”"
Seriously. You just read that. It was 'rather stupid' to take a photo of the people who showed up to receive the award. Because Race. While the issue is serious in a systematic way, again, this is getting bad.
[+] [-] bell-cot|4 years ago|reply
Obvious Lesson: #1 Must-Do for universities is to have a first-rate troop of women & minority actors on hand, whenever "unfortunate" photos might be taken, to present shallow decision-makers with the "right" image.
[+] [-] hrorq|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dijonman2|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] InCityDreams|4 years ago|reply