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Dual 75“ 4K TV Floor Computing

335 points| walterbell | 4 years ago |old.reddit.com | reply

276 comments

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[+] mnkmnk|4 years ago|reply
I am tempted to do this, at least as a FU to the monitor industry. There is so little innovation in monitor tech! Why are monitors so expensive and old tech compared to TVs? I just want an affordable large monitor with 120Hz refresh rate and USB-C for coding, but options are quite limited. All monitor innovation is into HDR and super high refresh rate which I don’t care about. And prices seem artificially high.
[+] NikolaNovak|4 years ago|reply
Interesting. I find innovation in TV's to be opposite of my desired direction. Smarts that make them slower, wifi, ads, slowness,forced firmware updates, slowness, unfathomable picture controls and auto magic colour correction that's Gawd awful, unresponsiveness and slowness. So I'm more likely to use my monitor as a TV then to want to use tv as monitor. I'm also clinging to my 2008 46" lcd tv that just works, and am stunned by how often my father in law has to call for my help with his shiny 76" tv which is showing blue screen of death or mandatory update or things have moved or icons have changed or their version of Netflix / Disney / whatever app is borked or needs maintenance or no longer supported or just looks different... And slower. Always ever slower.... the slowness of response is astonishing. Reminds me of new cars where if last driver had volume set up max, you can't kill the radio or volume until car is done telling you about its disclaimers and boot up sequence and pretty animation.

If you can't move in menus or mute instantly, than no thank you to innovation.

[+] linsomniac|4 years ago|reply
One thing I noticed about my 46" LG 4K monitor, which was "cheap" at $600-ish (edit: looked it up: $720) 3-4 years ago, is that it really isn't designed for viewing at desk distances. On my desk, as far back as it'll go, the viewing angle puts the backlight not exactly behind the pixels, so the left/right have 4-6 pixels and the bottom has ~10-15 pixels that are unlit.

I use it for a bunch of terminals, so part of the left column of text and the entire bottom line, or my status bar, were unreadable. Thankfully my window manager had an unsupported feature that let me "pretend" that those areas didn't exist.

So what I learned is that TV-oriented panels aren't just directly usable on the desktop.

However, I was more recently able to pick up a couple 32" Dell 4K displays for $300-ish each, and they are glorious! That was on a big year-end sale.

[+] Arubis|4 years ago|reply
> Why are monitors so expensive and old tech compared to TVs?

(“Smart”) TVs are subsidized by the push advertising and analytics crammed into their firmware.

[+] thrwawy283|4 years ago|reply
The thing that really bothers me are all these "AI" technologies in my new LG oled tv that don't actually get used. All of them to reduce "crushed" images, correct color, improve blurriness in motion scenes, etc are only used when not using HDMI/PC hookup. My feeling is they're used when viewing things streamed on Netflix/Hulu/HBOMax/etc. But I spend most of my time using the TV as a computer monitor. I'm in a niche group, but this was my only option for large-format oled.

I wish they did more with HDMI, even though HDMI is being phased out. I want to hook up my computer and have the computer gain an ethernet link from the TV, even though the TV is wirelessly connected to my router. The TV should be a "dock" that includes a 2nd monitor. I have a wireless controller reciever plugged into the USB port on the TV. I want that to give input to my computer from it. I also want my computer to charge while being hooked up to my TV. I think the only answer is this TV should have type-c and do all those things as a dock, but it's frustrating that we're 1 step behind.

I wish I could watch a program, while showing my computer hdmi input picture-in-picture. Hell this thing has 4 HDMI inputs on the back, let me do each input to a quarter of the screen. Another niche use..

Don't even get me started on the ads. Doesn't make sense to keep the TV on when my computer is locked for long periods of time, so I generally come back, turn on the TV, and unlock the computer. First thing I see is fucking ads. Takes 2 clicks on the remote to dismiss but it colors my experience that they're always pushing another $30 or $40/month service when I first see things onscreen. They know you can't get this quality elsewhere so they're happy to push you ads. And the telemetry, my god. It's my $3k TV!

Most TVs are still waiting to support the next hdmi standard so you can do 120fps & hdr simultaneously.

The 2 things that did impress me were this LG tv supporting both Miracast and Airplay with /no/ hoops to jump through. It just worked. I do wish I could "cast" things to the TV, and that's like pushing a link to it where the TV navigates to that stream and plays. No other device has to stream or push the video to the TV, it does it itself in the Chomecast paradigm. That would be nice.

</rambling>

[+] grishka|4 years ago|reply
Ever since I got the new MacBook Pro, I've wanted a monitor that would be its screen but 27" of it, in 5K resolution. But apparently I'm asking for something impossible. Or maybe Apple announces a "Studio Display XDR" next year? Who knows.
[+] 0xcde4c3db|4 years ago|reply
I'm far from an industry insider, but I think it could be LCD panel factories needing to be set up for specific sizes in conjunction with mainstream TV sizes going up rapidly over the past ~15 years. That is, the most-updated factories are the ones chasing the TV size trend, and monitors tend to get stuck with the output from the stragglers.
[+] matsemann|4 years ago|reply
> And prices seem artificially high

I switched companies last year and was gonna return the screen they gave me to use for home office, and buy my own. I looked it up, and the screen had cost like 700 USD back in 2016. So I thought I for the same price, 5 years later, I would get a sweet upgrade.

But no, basically same specs. Same panels, perhaps upgraded a bit, but not much had happened. Prices were the same, perhaps because of the pandemic. Luckily my previous company ended up gifting me the screen.

My new company ended up giving me the "newer" version of the monitor at the office. Only difference I can see is that it now charges my laptop via usb-c. Neat, but not much innovation in those 5 years.

[+] thangalin|4 years ago|reply
> affordable large monitor with 120Hz refresh rate

This year, I went through four different monitors to find one that works. Stay away from IPS panels, they all suffer from "IPS glow", which is visible when using high contrast colours (i.e., a bright window on a dark desktop background will blast a translucent white "overlay" above and below the window). "Smart" 4K TVs are untrustworthy, IMO (e.g., Samsung is known for spying/spyware and inopportune ads, making them a hard pass).

The ROG STRIX XG43UQ was the only display I could find that runs at 120 Hz, works with a KVM switch (IOGEAR 2-Port 4K DP), has a 16:9 aspect ratio, offers 4K resolution, uses a VESA 100 adapter, and is suitable for programming. The OS must be instructed to render using BGR instead of RGB, which Linux supports. The panel has some subtle horizontal glow in rare high-contrast situations, but it's nowhere as noticeable as IPS panels.

Depending on your definition of affordable, it runs for about $1,300.

https://rog.asus.com/ca-en/monitors/above-34-inches/rog-stri...

[+] kurthr|4 years ago|reply
I assume you're looking for an LCD monitor... not OLED or something novel. I'm not sure why you would want 120Hz, that seems like the only challenge to a competative price. Most LCD materials have long response times (>5ms) so they tend to blur at high refresh rates. High refresh rates at high resolution are also a challenge and thus higher cost. If you're looking for 4k, it's also worth noting that most non-premium TVs will use 2subpixel (RGBG rather than RGBRGB) rendering for higher brightness ans lower cost whereas most monitors will use 3. There are also economies of scale to much larger glass >40" which aren't usually seen in monitors. I am surprised how relatively poor the color matching on many monitors is, however.
[+] Nbox9|4 years ago|reply
I really enjoy the 49” ultrawide 1000R format Samsung has been pioneering. It’s the size/resolution of two 27” 1440p monitors next to each other, has a buttery smooth refresh rate, and a curve that makes viewing more comfortable and natural.

The new quantum dot displays are also very innovative.

[+] bsder|4 years ago|reply
The problem is that the monitors are only about gaming. In particular, I find the "1440" Y dimension resolution particularly infuriating.

Yeah, I know the reason is that modern games make all the graphic cards left over that aren't being used for crypto die in horrible flaming balls of heat when you actually ask them to ... you know ... actually use the pixels on your monitor. GASP! The Horror!

So, how can we fix this? I know! Let's make sure the monitors don't have enough pixels to cause the graphics cards grief. Brilliant!

[+] Stevvo|4 years ago|reply
I think things are changing; at CES this year QD-OLED launched on both TVs and monitors simultaneously with the AW3423DW, and there are some 42 inch OLED monitors derived from TV panels.
[+] ptero|4 years ago|reply
My main monitor is Dell u3014, 60Hz. I had a Dell 3008 at work and replaced it with 3017 when it died, so I had this tech for over 10 years both at home and at work.

What am I missing with 60Hz compared to 120Hz? Honest question. When I look at friends' office setups with latest curved 4k (or now 8k) monitors I do not see anything that I like more than my current monitor, so while we are generally not limited in workstation or monitor options at work I see no reason to upgrade.

[+] kayoone|4 years ago|reply
hm I think the industry was stale for quite some time but lately it has picked up a lot. What exactly are you looking for? Today you have high refresh rates,4k or 5k screens, (curved) Ultrawide, Variable Refresh rates, low latencies. Comparing them with TVs is not entirely fair, as those usually are not great for displaying text unless you get a specific panel with good chroma subsampling and in terms of latency TVs are usually also pretty far behind Monitors. The really good TVs are equally as expensive.
[+] lordnacho|4 years ago|reply
I've seen trading firms do this. Why have 8 monitors when you can just have one giant screen? All you do with it is show some app, doesn't need to be special.
[+] pronlover723|4 years ago|reply
I'm am curious about USB-C vs others. My MBP takes 10-20 seconds to wake up on an external USB-C monitor. Is that a MacOS issue or a USB-C issue?
[+] throw0101a|4 years ago|reply
The Dashews, a couple who design offshore boats (sail and power), after a few years of experimentation, ended up coming to a similar design for their navigation station their FPB line of powerboats:

* https://setsail.com/rethinking_modern_nav-2-2/

May not be able to do this on the deck of a traditional sailboat where things are exposed to the elements, but in an enclosed wheelhouse it adds a lot of flexibility, especially with modern the NMEA 2000 data bus and various vendor 'black boxes' (or leverage a Raspberry Pi), e.g.:

* https://mvdirona.com/2016/09/maretron-n2kview-on-dirona/

Aside: the owner of the above linked Dirona is James Hamilton, VP & Distinguished Engineer at Amazon.

[+] rasz|4 years ago|reply
Looks great until the first big wave weather where you lose ground and lean on/kick the big shiny TV losing all the telemetry.
[+] walrus01|4 years ago|reply
I'm skeptical how well that display on the left side of the nav-2-2 URL holds up for visibility under direct powerful sunlight. Even if it's a very expensive model.
[+] blamazon|4 years ago|reply
Wow. I am blown away by the photos in that FPB link. I'm not a boat person but it's unlike any boat pilot house I have seen before. A great room indeed.
[+] georgewsinger|4 years ago|reply
From the comments:

> I’m curious as to how this affected your productivity

Answer:

> Productivity is through the roof. Even when noodling about on small side projects I find you so quickly end up with so much things open that you're constantly flipping between, so to have multiple terminals, text editors, reference documentation, version control, etc, immediately accessible is, honestly, life changing.

[+] happimess|4 years ago|reply
Alternate take: I achieve constant-time access (mod key + digit) to all those things with 10 workspaces in i3.

I can't imagine having to see them all at once. Realistically, I'm only actually thinking about 1 or 2 of them at a time. If I need to check documentation, I'm no longer thinking about my build output. Slack, email, and calendar are disconnected from development tools. And if I need to do a quick context shift, I can switch over instantly.

[+] tga|4 years ago|reply
I definitely agree with that take when talking about running two 4k monitors at full resolution, but it doesn’t address the size at all. The more reasonable approach would be to use two ~38-42” monitors.
[+] paulcole|4 years ago|reply
Kind of funny that the idea of constantly flipping between a bunch of things increases productivity. I’d imagine if this person had instead limited themselves to a single 15” laptop screen their productivity would’ve increased over their baseline because they’d be focused on one thing at a time.
[+] matsemann|4 years ago|reply
Don't see how it increases productivity compared to normally sized 4k screens? Can fit just as much into them?

Edit: Or might be able to not scale text as much. But that is the screen being too close I feel.

[+] sometimeshuman|4 years ago|reply
Slight skepticism should be applied to any productivity claim. There was research to determine if changing X in the office boosted productivity. But in the end it was found that X didn't matter, within reason. Changing any X boosted productivity and the benefits often diminished with time. I thought this was called the Hawthorne Effect but I am no longer sure.
[+] bullfightonmars|4 years ago|reply
I am not sure if I understand this claim. It looks like this setup has the same density of information as a typical 27in 4k monitor.
[+] whartung|4 years ago|reply
So, I look at this and it reminds me of a trivial experiment I did in a hotel room, which is sort of the opposite of what these people are doing.

Simply, I took my phone and held it up in front of me, a comfortable distance from my face, and covered the hotel TV with it.

At that point, it's easy to realize that the phone screen isn't necessarily too small, at least for "TV" watching, because, net, the screens are the "same size" in terms of consumed field of view.

In the end it was the same if you could watch it comfortably (which is a different problem).

[+] wasmitnetzen|4 years ago|reply
It does make a difference on eye strain, since they need to focus to a point much closer.
[+] cma|4 years ago|reply
Aside from the eye issues, with a phone size screen mounted externally, moving your head 2 in would be like moving your head 2ft, so you couldn't have any variation in your posture without the screen being uncomfortably off-centered. Think of a movie theater where you can move several seats or even rows from the center sweetspot seat and still have roughly the same view.
[+] rolobio|4 years ago|reply
I’ve found that a 32” QHD monitor is the highest PPI my eyes can comfortably read. I tried to use a 4K TV as my monitor, but I needed something like 55” up close to read it comfortably. It was simply too large and I had to move my neck too much. Also, that was the day I learned some pixels are chevrons!
[+] drewolbrich|4 years ago|reply
At this scale, I'm concerned about latency due to the speed of light travel time.
[+] QuikAccount|4 years ago|reply
If you aren't gaming then latency concerns are really overblown.
[+] bombcar|4 years ago|reply
I have four monitors connected to my Mac. The two centrals are ultrawides (34UB88-P) on top of each other - the lower one is the main window where the action happens - the one above is the secondary where terminals and other monitoring processes happen). The main is large enough for work and references to be next to each other.

The 4K on the right (run at hi-dpi) is for various non-work chat programs, reference images, etc. the 4K on the left is for work chat and Finder windows, and the laptop display itself holds email.

It works well. The main advantage is being able to glance at chats without switching windows.

[+] computator|4 years ago|reply
Do you think such a setup would be helpful for an elderly relative whose eyesight is getting worse? Even with glasses, the relative has trouble with a 27-inch desktop monitor with 2560 x 1440 pixels. Specifically, I was thinking of using an Ultra High Definition TV (49-inch with 3840 x 2160 pixels) but setting the resolution at 2560 x 1440. So it would be the same resolution but everything would be bigger. Would it help?
[+] twoodfin|4 years ago|reply
The biggest challenge with a setup like this would seem to be mapping the user’s focus to the UI focus. Traditional pointing devices and window selection highlighting would be suboptimal.

But I expect these problems will be solved via gesture or eye tracking + new modes of interaction for AR/VR. In particular, curious what Apple’s going to end up doing for their headset.

[+] karmakaze|4 years ago|reply
This reminds me of a vivid dream I had in university, where the room I programmed in had source code displayed on the floor and I could scroll or walk around and browse it. The listing on the floor had that wide green-and-white band printer 'paper' look. Don't remember if it went all skeuomorphic with rendered perforated edges and holes. It also had other printer type things that were just sitting there not printing at the time. And for a reason I never understood there was a large pixelated volumetric figure of my housemate Bill also in the room like a 3/4 life-size Lego figure. As I interpreted it at the time, I didn't think the figure was generated in real-time as to be able to instantly into something else. It didn't feel virtual, and augmented reality wasn't a concept at the time. I suppose in theory it could be fully rendered in roomscale VR if my hands and arms looked and moved accurately enough.
[+] emacs28|4 years ago|reply
I find curved displays much nicer to look at on the edges. I hope spherically curved monitors come out some day too.

I use a 32" 2160p 4K curved display (1500R). It's harder to find than the 1440p curved displays but they're out there.

Also, I find I prefer looking straight in front of me best and don't really use anything more than a single 4k display. I try to improve my app switching skills & tools before using more monitors.

[+] prosaic-hacker|4 years ago|reply
This is a scaled up version of my setup for my adult son, who is legally blind. We setup 2 of these as our "zoom" stations at the beginning of the pandemic. A good chair/sofa up close the TV, 55" UHD TV connected to a Lenovo laptop with a wireless keyboard and trackpad combo. My son's TV is also connected to the cable box, WII, DVD players (Reg & BR)

These are not some sort of high performance workstation just a cheap and dirty solution. Everything was in the house , Laptops from 2016, TVs and keyboards from the last couple of years of Black Friday sales and a few HDMI Cables.

I saw someone else's setup with a dual recliner that had integrated Fold away TV tables that the keyboard and mouse sat on. It was a gaming setup.

[+] russellbeattie|4 years ago|reply
I recently turned 50 and though I've had to wear glasses for long distance vision my entire life, my arm-length distance has only just succumbed to age. I just got a new prescription, but for the past year I've been bobbing my head back and forth to my screens like a chicken.

The solution is now bifocals, or multi-vision contacts which leave everything - both close and distant - slightly blurry. I can't say I'm in love with either solution, but that's life.

But hey! I like this idea! I could dial in my contacts prescription for 20/20 distance vision and just sit back in my La-Z-Boy. It might be a bit awkward going back to the office...

[+] peterhajas|4 years ago|reply
I’ve used 4K 39”/40” televisions (originally 3, now 1) for the past 8 years. I find that the panels look great, and they give me a huge working area. They’re also really reasonable - $250 - $350 for a good TV. They last a while.

Smaller 4K/5K panels (with more pixels per inch) are nice, but I never understood the push for density. I’d rather have more workspace with lower density.

[+] zrail|4 years ago|reply
I use a 43" 4K LG monitor (not TV) as my every day work screen, positioned about five feet from my face. I have macOS set to scale it up about 25". I can't really say I'm more productive on it than just using my laptop, but I definitely notice less eye strain when I'm using the big monitor.
[+] Trasmatta|4 years ago|reply
Speaking of monitors, I got one of those absurd 49" ultra widescreen displays a few months ago. The resolution is 5120x1440, so it's functionally equivalent to two 27" 1440p monitors placed side by side.

The text is naturally not as crisp as a 4K monitor, but the amount of screen real estate is great for development. Paired with a tiling window manager it gives so many options. I did the dual 27" 1440p thing for years, and I find this setup superior. With the dual monitor strategy you have to either deal with a huge bezel right in the center of your vision, or push the secondary monitor off to the side, requiring more neck movement to see what's on it. With this monitor, everything remains much more clearly in my field of view.

[+] legalcorrection|4 years ago|reply
The guy claims he uses the keyboard by hunching over the side table[1]. That is so comically anti-ergonomic (most people would get back pain within an hour or two, and be bedridden within a couple of days) that I think this is fake and posted on Reddit for karma/trolling purposes.

Consider also that to focus on another window requires the user to substantially turn his head. This would very quickly cause neck strain.

Our inclination is to believe things are real, but people do just go on the internet and lie. A lot.

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/battlestations/comments/toecyt/dual...

[+] rwc|4 years ago|reply
Love it in theory, but the strain of moving your head to see the full dimensions of the screens would get old. Eyes are good at darting around a smaller screen up close, don’t know that the entire head and neck would appreciate that day in and day out.
[+] FlyingAvatar|4 years ago|reply
I use 3x 27" 4K monitors in portrait mode side by side with my Macbook Pro screen at the end. This gives me about 10 normal screen sized areas.

I usually have the following things open in specific spots:

  - General Browser (mostly for email and weather)
  - Calendar
  - Terminal
  - Text Editor
  - Desktop Mode Browser for App in Development
  - Detached Debug Console for the above
  - Mobile View Browser for App in Development with attached Debug Console
  - Browser for documentation / reference
  - To Do List
  - Slack
[+] KingMachiavelli|4 years ago|reply
I tried comparing using a 75" 4K TV to a 32" 4K monitor and the biggest issue is that you have to sit just a bit closer to the 75" TV then typical living room use would dictate which means moving furniture, etc.

A much easier trick is getting nice monitor arms that let you position your 32" 4K monitors better, it's often the monitor stand that prevents proper positioning. In my case one monitor is hovering a whole 1" back from my keyboard which would be impossible with the stock stand.