[Mirioron]

I have a difficult time understanding this. I was a kid that was rebellious, but in a way that didn't get me in trouble. When I read stories like this I get an intense feeling of fighting back, or at the very least, hold everyone that participated in contempt for the rest of my life. I am certain that if my parents had done something like this I would never have forgiven them. Nor would I have forgiven anyone that works in a place like this.

[unityByFreedom]

The author writes,

> I was reckless, taking my mom’s car out for joy rides without permission, skipping class

That may be after 16 years of doing outrageous things to get attention at home.

Some psychologists in the 1950s [1] suggested kids will do whatever gets them attention while striving for a way to participate in the family. That can include bad behavior. If they don't receive attention for good behavior, then they can gradually find their way towards things that will definitely get attention, like getting into mom's makeup, throwing around food or dirty diapers or whatever. Today, many psychologists suggest using positive discipline [2] to reinforce good behavior while weaning bad behaviors.

Often a family might have one "good" kid who excels in school while another struggles. Why is that? Aforementioned psychologists suggest it is because each kid finds a way to "stand out" in their family, and families who dote on the good child may reinforce the chosen behavior of both children.

In your case, maybe your family did effectively use positive discipline, or you were an only child, or you were the "good" one in your family.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Dreikurs

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_discipline

[thrashh]

One thing I’ve learned at this point is that almost l no kid or adult is actually irrational.

If someone seems irrational, it’s because their shoes are so different from any that you’ve been in. You simply have never experienced anything like their life (because if you did, you’d be like them).

And you can’t actually ask someone to explain their own behavior because everyone only lives one life and they rarely know in what way their shoes are different from someone else’s.

[paganel]

> taking my mom’s car out for joy rides without permission, skipping class

Those are all just "things that kids do", or they used to be some years ago, pretty sad that "skipping classes" has transformed into a "reckless" thing that risks getting you, as a kid, quasi-institutionalised.

[Gareth321]

>"Today, many psychologists suggest using positive discipline"

From Wikipedia:

>"It is based on the idea that there are no bad children, just good and bad behaviors."

Given the fact that we've known for decades now that behaviour is roughly 50% nature (and 50% nurture), this foundational (implied) premise is unequivocally and demonstrably incorrect. Some children are "bad" and need to be taught not to hurt others. This parenting style is growing in popularity and I don't think it's a surprise that we now see an epidemic of kids with mental health problems.

I recommend listening to this lecture from Jonathan Haidt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5IGyHNvr7E&t=569s

Children certainly need boundaries and rules. They need corrective measures when children rebel. I think it's clear that a lack of negative punishment is leading to all kinds of negative outcomes for children.

[noduerme]

>> maybe your family did effectively use positive discipline, or you were an only child, or you were the "good" one in your family.

You omit the many sadly common cases for legitimate rebellion and escape, such as sexual abuse from stepparents or foster parents. Those unfortunately can't be remedied with "positive discipline" and they don't make a child the "bad" one.

[wolverine876]

IIRC a tenet of developmental psychology that the worst thing for children is neglect - it's worse than abuse (and that isn't downplaying abuse in any way), because the abused child is getting attention. Children are absolutely dependent on their parents for survival (literally, food, water, shelter, protection, safety), for understanding the world, for learning. Neglect, the absence of parenting, is terrifying.

[wolverine876]

At a certain level it's not hard to understand, in that it's predictable: Power corrupts, and you can depend on it. People with power over vulnerable human beings, and with no check on their power, can be generally predicted to abuse it. Just look for those situations and I predict that you will often find it. (That's one reason transparency and openness are so important.)

Look at child sex abuse scandals: Who do they abuse? Vulnerable children without resources to fight back. Have you ever heard of such a thing happening to the children of the powerful? At Penn State University, at least some of the victims were in a program for parentless children (I don't remember if they were orphans, foster kids, etc.). IIRC, one had been abused elsewhere and was kicked out when he reported it - what could he do this time? You know what the abusers say: 'Nobody will believe you.' And he's a child, alone in this situation.

[sandworm101]

>> Have you ever heard of such a thing happening to the children of the powerful?

Yes. It happens all the time. In some areas of high society, in the recent past, it was downright common. Look into the history of British boys schools. I myself attended a British-style boarding school. While I never witnessed anything personally, a few years after I graduated my former math teacher was fired in disgrace. I never got the full story beyond "he had fail to register with appropriate authorities and so was let go".

The reason it seems that the children and powerful are immune is only because such issues rarely becomes public. Poor people report crimes to the police. Rich people talk to their lawyers and the issue is settled between the families.

[throwaway999t]

Tangential side note I have to mention about that Penn State thing. I was at the uni from 2011 to 2015 and my father served on the facility senate.

Graham Spanier drew a salary from the university DESPITE being complicit in the cover-up until 2017. He merely was “removed from leadership.” It’s on us as a society to punish misuse of power more effectively. The consequences for misuse are often minor.

https://apnews.com/article/north-america-us-news-ap-top-news...

[unityByFreedom]

"Power corrupts" may explain the abusive nature of "tough love" programs, but it does not explain how the teen became troubled in the first place. Thoughtful parents and older siblings will not abuse their strength/wisdom against youth because they know they are raising a new generation that may one day make decisions for them.

[erdos4d]

Reading the comments here, I think that is exactly what has happened in many cases.