I've been using Windows for about two years. Just this morning, when I booted into Windows, the boot loader (or whatever you call the part before Windows is fully loaded) prompted me saying I need to finish setting up. The only options were "accept" or "remind me in 3 days", so I accepted. Then it asked me to change my default browser to Edge. Apparently "finish setting up" means "we don't like that you are using Firefox".
This happened to me last week as well. I assume that this shit came with any of the recent updates.
It really infuriated me, especially the usage of the word "need" and the fact that the dialog doesn't offer an option like "no, and don't bug me with this ever again". Fortunately, after hitting the "remind me in 3 days" button, I looked a bit and found an option that does make it go away forever.
My Windows is in Spanish, so I don't know the exact name of the configuration settings in English, but you can find it in the Win+I configuration dialog. Look for "notifications and actions" (or something very similar), and there, look for a checkbox whose text reads something like "suggest ways to finish device configuration to get the most out of Windows". In fact there are six checkboxes in that screen and every single one looks like an annoyance, so I disabled them all.
Last week, a windows update wiped out the boot loader for my Linux install right before I needed the Linux laptop for an event. I had to cancel since I didn’t have time to repair things
It does this every 6 months or so. Windows is malware
> Apparently "finish setting up" means "we don't like that you are using Firefox".
I've noticed the same thing on an Android tablet recently, just with Google Play in place of Edge (and F-Droid in place of Firefox). That's unpleasant, but unfortunately not that surprising: dark patterns and other annoyances are quite common, particularly with commercial products.
That behavior is definitely abhorrent. I wonder, though, if you could get the message to go away for good by accepting the change and then immediately changing it right back after.
On the one hand, WSL has made Windows truly viable as a developer platform. But on the other hand, this sort of aggressive marketing bullshit makes it such an unfriendly place to be. I want my computer to treat me as an adult. Since it increasingly doesn't, I did the adult thing and walked away. If a relationship turns abusive, one must leave.
I would love to be able to pay for "Windows Professional" or something to get rid of this bullshit. But I guess my eyeballs are more valuable than my dollars. In that case, MS will get neither.
I moved back to Linux two months ago because of shit like this. Good riddance. Thankfully wine acts as the WSL for Linux, and makes the migration possible.
Apple pulls this crap too. Use a different browser on Mac and get a "helpful" notification telling you to try the new Safari. Only place you're safe these days is a fully FOSS OS like Linux and FreeBSD.
Google started doing this with their search. And still does, regardless of how many times I say "I'm not interested". And as someone else mentioned here, Safari does the same.
And Microsoft follows suit.
Irritating as all hell, but complaints hit HN front page only when it comes to Microsoft.
I do wish, though, that Microsoft would take the moral high ground.
I have seen more and more that it is Apple that usually starts these practices, and since their users generally give them unlimited leeway towards these things (happening right now in this very thread!) it becomes the new standard. Then Microsoft, Google and others follow suit. The "try Safari" notifications when opening Chrome or Firefox have been a thing in macOS forever. Same with advertising and upsells built into the OS.
Apple has been blocking 3rd party browsers on iOS for 15 years, it's only going to make the front page so many times. Similarly macOS has held a pretty consistent stream and lets switching be easy, limiting it to some notifications which really isn't that unreasonable. Microsoft lately has been on a rampage to go from it being relatively frictionless to it being as scary and inconvenient as possible for the user. At one point even requiring the user to manually switch each protocol and file extension over to the other browser but allowing Edge to automatically change them back for the user!
Google gets similar complaints but it gets stifled because by the numbers people are generally trying to install Chrome so they don't really care the Google page asks them "do you want to install Chrome" when they open it initially. Still scummy but most aren't going to complain about being prompted to do precisely what they wanted to do.
Yep. Whenever I search for anything on Safari on my iPhone, the search results page has a static div saying "Fast access to Google. Get the new Google widget. Get the app". Close it with the 'x', and it reappears next time.
So far I've stuck with Google on my phone simply because its local search is better than Kagi's, but I'm this far away from jumping to Kagi on the phone too.
On the other hand, I find Firefox 's behavior annoying as well.
On one of my Firefox installations, when I start it, it always asks me to become the default browser. Which I don't want, so I set the "don't ask me again" checkbox. Yet it will ask me again. The Firefox support forum mentions several workarounds, none of them working.
Also, there are additional random /modals every once in a startup, asking me to try out new design feature X. I'm never interested, I just want to use a web browser.
All in all, I'm more annoyed by Firefox than other browsers.
In fairness though, that first behaviour you've described sounds like a straight-up bug. I very much doubt that anybody at Firefox HQ intends this to be the case.
I get that bugs can be annoying, but "my browser has an annoying bug" is a million miles away from "my browser monitors when I search for competitor's software and warns me that I shouldn't use it".
Sounds like this is unique to you and your system? I've been using Firefox for casual browsing for years and I experience none of these issues. As in I don't even know what you're referring to honestly because I've never seen such things in all these years of having it. Chrome is set as my default browser btw.
The only "pop-up" - if you can call it that - I ever get is the one telling me a new version of FF is available for download.
macOS does something similar -- when I was setting up my parents' machines I discovered that if you start using not-Safari it starts sending notifications telling you how great the latest Safari is, which is very irritating.
While both are bad (and should probably be illegal), I would argue that Microsoft's are much more insidious, wrapping everything in a language of "accept the default trusted option?"
> macOS does something similar -- when I was setting up my parents' machines I discovered that if you start using not-Safari it starts sending notifications telling you how great the latest Safari is, which is very irritating.
It grates to defend Apple, but that is not my experience. I cannot recall ever running Safari on the Mac I use. I use Firefox only. I cannot recall being harassed by he MacOS to switch.
Interesting. I don’t see these. I brew install brave-browser, select it as my preferred and have never been bothered by any of these prompts. I’m curious what’s different in the mechanisms.
The repeated prompt that goes drive me nuts in macOS is the encouragement to get some more iCloud backup. Why can’t it detect I have a time machine backup running on an external SSD and leave me alone?
Well just tried it. Edge > opened Bing > "Firefox" > Click on first Firefox hit > Download. And nothing like that happened. No pop up or nothing. And I'm using a Windows 10 PC with an MS account logged in for Office365 + Gamepass
This is what I don't like about social media sites like HN either where only the rage will reach the front page
open cmd.exe with admin privileges
> cd %PROGRAMFILES(X86)%\Microsoft\Edge\Application\[SOME VERSION NO.]\Installer
> setup --uninstall --force-uninstall --system-level
Prevent recurrence with some registry editing:
> create new key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft/EdgeUpdate
> create “DWORD (32-bit) Value” and call it “DoNotUpdateToEdgeWithChromium"
I'm using Windows 11 since a few months, been using Windows 10 before, and Windows 7 before that.
The prompt in question comes up exactly once, when using Edge to download Chrome/Firefox. Then there is only one additional prompt when you set your default browser to Chrome/Firefox.
After that, Windows gives up and shuts up. Even if you update it, it won't bug you again, ever. At least I have never seen that prompt come up a second time since then.
I'm using Windows 11 pro though, it might be that the consumer versions (home, educational, whatever they're called) are different in that regard
The DevDiv (or whatever they are called) people are very visible and accessible at Microsoft. "This is our vision for the product", "This is why we make this change" etc. Even people who implement individual features can let people know in advance. Have dialog on Twitter about an upcoming change to a .NET api or a VS feature.
I'd like to see Microsoft be open with that sort of thing for Windows. I'd like to see the people who make these decisions. I'd like to hear their motivations.
I recently bought a Windows laptop for gaming (the only reason to still get one imo). The first thing I installed was a network inspection tool and proceeded to spend the next 3 hours trying to get back some control of my computer by:
* Blocking network access for many processes (Windows Defender Smart Screen, GamingServices, Search etc). The latter sends all your search queries to bing
* Fiddling with telemetry & privacy settings
After uninstalling Edge I still find places where functionality is broken because the OS doesn't respect the default browser setting.
Is that surprising to anyone at this point? Big companies have proven times and times again that they absolutely can treat their customers the way they do. Whining won't cut it. Spill all the shit you can on Windows, people still won't stop using their only daily driver.
More shocking posts about bad Windows and predictable comments about Linux to the entropy god.
Microsoft used to be far less abusive than this. You installed it and it would just stay silent. I think things changed starting around Windows 8, then got much worse with 10, and the trend continues with 11.
I don't even care at this point. I used to advocate for Firefox and Chrome on Windows platform but it just seems silly to try to force Microsoft's hand to make their platform neutral to competitors. It's like walking into a Ford Dealership wanting them to support Toyota Trucks. The better choice is to leave Windows. Mac, Chromebook and Linux a all very good options.
Nah. Does Android complain if you switch the default browser away from Chrome?
I wouldn't complain about favoring Edge by just having it pre-set as the default when you install Windows. That's fine and reasonable to me, you want some kind of default browser anyway, if nothing else, to install other browsers.
But the OS complaining about it when you switch is stupid. Whereas you can argue that having some kind of browser built into the OS is a reasonable necessity for user convenience -- and you could argue this for other app types too, like image viewers and video players -- having the OS try to convince users to not switch is explicitly anti-competitive.
it just seems silly to try to force Microsoft's hand to make their platform neutral to competitors.
Many places have laws, under headlines like "monopolies" or "anti-competitive behaviour", that have evolved precisely because of the danger of allowing a business entity that has achieved a dominant position in one market to exploit that position to gain an unfair advantage in another market (even if the former position was achieved entirely on merit).
Many places have evolved a regulatory environment for services, particularly those considered essential, where commercial providers of those services are restricted from freely performing certain acts that would harm a user of their services even if it makes business sense to do that.
We evolved these rules because there is a huge imbalance of power in these situations and we learned from experience that allowing the big guy to exploit that imbalance to the detriment of the little guy is bad for society.
The need to apply similar principles to modern technologies and communications services is abundantly clear. The legislators and regulators are just a decade or two behind the technology, as so often happens. Now we're starting to see the pendulum swing back and it will probably go too far the other way, with technologically illiterate political appointees seeing potential power and/or revenue that can be generated from applying heavy-handed control to the big tech firms and doing their own kind of damage to the societies they supposedly serve. Witness the current wave of laws and regulatory actions in basically everywhere in the West that isn't the USA.
I think a more appropriate analogy is you have a Ford car, and you tell the GPS system to navigate you to a Toyota dealership. Instead of doing that, it prompts you multiple times if you really want to go to a Ford dealership instead.
The last time I installed Windows 10 and then downloaded all the updates, the default behavior was simply to block the download of any .exe files. This includes Firefox & Chrome, so I didn't run into this issue at all. I just couldn't download any executable files.
After navigating a few mazes of menus I was able to disable all this behavior.
I don't understand how this kind of petulant child behavior isn't the first topic for any journalist in contact with a Microsoft representative for any reason. It's as if Jeff Bezos was walking around with his weiner hanging out but somehow only got asked questions about Amazon's fourth quarter numbers.
Whenever I use Edge to open my Gmail account, Google puts in a popup to switch to Chrome. I realize Gmail is a Google product, but I still find it annoying, because I have chosen Edge. I have to see how to turn off this notification.
[+] [-] MichaelDickens|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gordaco|3 years ago|reply
It really infuriated me, especially the usage of the word "need" and the fact that the dialog doesn't offer an option like "no, and don't bug me with this ever again". Fortunately, after hitting the "remind me in 3 days" button, I looked a bit and found an option that does make it go away forever.
My Windows is in Spanish, so I don't know the exact name of the configuration settings in English, but you can find it in the Win+I configuration dialog. Look for "notifications and actions" (or something very similar), and there, look for a checkbox whose text reads something like "suggest ways to finish device configuration to get the most out of Windows". In fact there are six checkboxes in that screen and every single one looks like an annoyance, so I disabled them all.
[+] [-] gentleman11|3 years ago|reply
It does this every 6 months or so. Windows is malware
[+] [-] defanor|3 years ago|reply
I've noticed the same thing on an Android tablet recently, just with Google Play in place of Edge (and F-Droid in place of Firefox). That's unpleasant, but unfortunately not that surprising: dark patterns and other annoyances are quite common, particularly with commercial products.
[+] [-] EvanAnderson|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antisthenes|3 years ago|reply
How should I tell my employer that I am no longer able to use Windows and that I will be unproductive if I am forced to do so?
[+] [-] josephcsible|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Derbasti|3 years ago|reply
I would love to be able to pay for "Windows Professional" or something to get rid of this bullshit. But I guess my eyeballs are more valuable than my dollars. In that case, MS will get neither.
I moved back to Linux two months ago because of shit like this. Good riddance. Thankfully wine acts as the WSL for Linux, and makes the migration possible.
[+] [-] maverick74|3 years ago|reply
But then again... Google uses a lot of dirty tricks as well and the EU doesn't do much either so...
[+] [-] goosedragons|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darkwater|3 years ago|reply
Is Ballmer CEO again?
[+] [-] thunderbong|3 years ago|reply
And Microsoft follows suit.
Irritating as all hell, but complaints hit HN front page only when it comes to Microsoft.
I do wish, though, that Microsoft would take the moral high ground.
[+] [-] paxys|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zamadatix|3 years ago|reply
Google gets similar complaints but it gets stifled because by the numbers people are generally trying to install Chrome so they don't really care the Google page asks them "do you want to install Chrome" when they open it initially. Still scummy but most aren't going to complain about being prompted to do precisely what they wanted to do.
[+] [-] Doctor_Fegg|3 years ago|reply
So far I've stuck with Google on my phone simply because its local search is better than Kagi's, but I'm this far away from jumping to Kagi on the phone too.
[+] [-] Eduard|3 years ago|reply
On one of my Firefox installations, when I start it, it always asks me to become the default browser. Which I don't want, so I set the "don't ask me again" checkbox. Yet it will ask me again. The Firefox support forum mentions several workarounds, none of them working.
Also, there are additional random /modals every once in a startup, asking me to try out new design feature X. I'm never interested, I just want to use a web browser.
All in all, I'm more annoyed by Firefox than other browsers.
[+] [-] matthewmacleod|3 years ago|reply
I get that bugs can be annoying, but "my browser has an annoying bug" is a million miles away from "my browser monitors when I search for competitor's software and warns me that I shouldn't use it".
[+] [-] y-c-o-m-b|3 years ago|reply
The only "pop-up" - if you can call it that - I ever get is the one telling me a new version of FF is available for download.
[+] [-] mstipetic|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] petepete|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gtf21|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] warning26|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] worik|3 years ago|reply
It grates to defend Apple, but that is not my experience. I cannot recall ever running Safari on the Mac I use. I use Firefox only. I cannot recall being harassed by he MacOS to switch.
FLW
[+] [-] travisgriggs|3 years ago|reply
The repeated prompt that goes drive me nuts in macOS is the encouragement to get some more iCloud backup. Why can’t it detect I have a time machine backup running on an external SSD and leave me alone?
[+] [-] ulimn|3 years ago|reply
I always browse with Firefox (apart from the occasional Safari when I want Apple Pay) and don’t use Chrome at all.
[+] [-] haunter|3 years ago|reply
This is what I don't like about social media sites like HN either where only the rage will reach the front page
Edit: screen recording https://streamable.com/wpjv2h
[+] [-] isoprophlex|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dark-star|3 years ago|reply
I'm using Windows 11 since a few months, been using Windows 10 before, and Windows 7 before that.
The prompt in question comes up exactly once, when using Edge to download Chrome/Firefox. Then there is only one additional prompt when you set your default browser to Chrome/Firefox.
After that, Windows gives up and shuts up. Even if you update it, it won't bug you again, ever. At least I have never seen that prompt come up a second time since then.
I'm using Windows 11 pro though, it might be that the consumer versions (home, educational, whatever they're called) are different in that regard
[+] [-] alkonaut|3 years ago|reply
I'd like to see Microsoft be open with that sort of thing for Windows. I'd like to see the people who make these decisions. I'd like to hear their motivations.
[+] [-] jpeter|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drexlspivey|3 years ago|reply
* Uninstalling tons of crap (Xbox Live, Edge, McAfee, Cortana etc)
* Blocking network access for many processes (Windows Defender Smart Screen, GamingServices, Search etc). The latter sends all your search queries to bing
* Fiddling with telemetry & privacy settings
After uninstalling Edge I still find places where functionality is broken because the OS doesn't respect the default browser setting.
[+] [-] n4bz0r|3 years ago|reply
More shocking posts about bad Windows and predictable comments about Linux to the entropy god.
[+] [-] easton|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] userbinator|3 years ago|reply
Microsoft used to be far less abusive than this. You installed it and it would just stay silent. I think things changed starting around Windows 8, then got much worse with 10, and the trend continues with 11.
[+] [-] jmkni|3 years ago|reply
Letting people figure that out for themselves word spread organically would be more effective than trying to shove it down everyone’s throats.
[+] [-] homerhomer|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TulliusCicero|3 years ago|reply
I wouldn't complain about favoring Edge by just having it pre-set as the default when you install Windows. That's fine and reasonable to me, you want some kind of default browser anyway, if nothing else, to install other browsers.
But the OS complaining about it when you switch is stupid. Whereas you can argue that having some kind of browser built into the OS is a reasonable necessity for user convenience -- and you could argue this for other app types too, like image viewers and video players -- having the OS try to convince users to not switch is explicitly anti-competitive.
[+] [-] Silhouette|3 years ago|reply
Many places have laws, under headlines like "monopolies" or "anti-competitive behaviour", that have evolved precisely because of the danger of allowing a business entity that has achieved a dominant position in one market to exploit that position to gain an unfair advantage in another market (even if the former position was achieved entirely on merit).
Many places have evolved a regulatory environment for services, particularly those considered essential, where commercial providers of those services are restricted from freely performing certain acts that would harm a user of their services even if it makes business sense to do that.
We evolved these rules because there is a huge imbalance of power in these situations and we learned from experience that allowing the big guy to exploit that imbalance to the detriment of the little guy is bad for society.
The need to apply similar principles to modern technologies and communications services is abundantly clear. The legislators and regulators are just a decade or two behind the technology, as so often happens. Now we're starting to see the pendulum swing back and it will probably go too far the other way, with technologically illiterate political appointees seeing potential power and/or revenue that can be generated from applying heavy-handed control to the big tech firms and doing their own kind of damage to the societies they supposedly serve. Witness the current wave of laws and regulatory actions in basically everywhere in the West that isn't the USA.
[+] [-] oh_sigh|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GekkePrutser|3 years ago|reply
But anyway car analogies are pretty skewed.
[+] [-] sidewndr46|3 years ago|reply
After navigating a few mazes of menus I was able to disable all this behavior.
[+] [-] causality0|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eggy|3 years ago|reply