I'd really like to know how much Microsoft's behavior with recent Windows versions pays off. Specifically bundling lots of unwanted apps, forcing Edge and Defender down people's throats, removing basic UI customization features, etc.
The fact that they are still doing this today suggests that they get something out of these decisions. Or at least they think so.
I can only imagine that the part of customers being alienated this way is/appears insignificant to them. I still believe Microsoft has the necessary resources to put out a truly great OS, but it looks like they don't want to.
Windows defender is better than almost evrything out there. Edge is as annoying as chrome or safari is on their respective os’s and no basic ui stuff has really been removed that tons of freeware and addons didn’t allow one to customize and they’re releasing a new update to continue to refine the UX/UI
I think we keep hearing complaints but they come from a vocal minority. I use both Windows 10 and 11 daily and the issues people are describing are exaggerated most of the time. Not saying they don't exist but personally other than the task bar regressions everything else is actually a lot more polished in 11 than 10.
Windows defender is pretty good and edge is a decent browser but the same way Windows annoys you to use it Google uses its services to force chrome on you (for example I get a popup on Gmail every time I open it asking me to switch to chrome no matter how many times I dismiss it, I assume Firefox gets the same).
So maybe as users we got used to the idea of the big corporations trying to fight for our attention.
My gaming PC, which isn't that old (Skylake / GTX 1080) isn't compatible with Windows 11. It still works fine, but given that it will inevitably be out of date with something that requires Windows 11, and the current impossibility of buying reasonably priced GPUs, I bought an XBox instead.
Microsoft gets my money anyway, I suppose, but all my real work is done on a Mac.
It's funny how Microsoft is basically just a gaming company for me, now.
You might consider trying something like Ubuntu or Linux Mint.
Steam's Proton compatibility layer has come a long way in the past couple of years. It supports most titles without any special configuration, including resource-hungry 3D games like Elden Ring and modded Fallout 4.
Do note that the gpu shortage is somewhat ending,finally. Doesn't mean prices are back to decent amounts, but we went from "no gpu available" to "there are gpus on amazon"
The worst mistake was removing the ability to ungroup taskbar items! Opening more than one instance of an application is a terrible experience right now. The icons are often unresponsive, the indicator that something is open is literally just a tiny dot.
Instead of addressing this I feel like Microsoft is just going to continue to add tabs to all their applications as justification for it. Edge, VS Code, Windows Terminal, and now File Explorer.
Definitely the taskbar and start menu was rushed out before it was feature complete. Unfortunately looks like it takes them way too long to fix it too.
The only reason I was excited for Windows 11 was the Android integration.
When the news about Windows 11 came out I had just recently upgraded to a new PC, the first pre-built pc I've used for myself since the 90s in fact. It was nice to see though that Dell/Alienware was among the first to be able to get Windows 11 so I was ready to go on launch day.
Launch day came and went and windows kept saying it wasn't ready yet. Then one day (Jan?) the update finally came. It started the install.. but failed. After the failure it popped up a message saying it wasn't ready yet for my device.
From that point on about once a week the update popped up in windows update and automatically started downloading, but after about 12% it failed and kept repeating the not yet ready message.
I'm wondering if the low number is less about who wants it, but more about who they've released it to so far... which seems very very low.
Also, the android integration.. though it works... does not work very well.. For example I wanted to be able to control a smart device that only has an app from my pc. It works at first, but then just reloads over and over again and is unusable until I reinstall it.
Also with the keyboard I have I often fat finger and put a tiny little of pressure on the windows key when I hit ctrl-t. Ctrl-windows-t turns on and off the subsystem for android reader so I get to hear it telling me about that all day long.
Long story short, windows 11 isn't bad.. at least when you get some third party tools to fix the task bar.. but not at all surprised the numbers are so low. But again, I think its more Microsoft's upgrade system's fault then users choosing not to install it.
A huge number of consumers who can't upgrade to Windows 11 due to unsupported hardware will instead opt for an iPad or Chromebook. Everything is either web- or app-based, and people don't want the complexity of Windows. Microsoft will lose a big chunk of the Windows user base this way.
Windows has never been better. WSL2, wsl/g, android (hope it gets better store but you can side load), xbox gamepass, game bar, better security, better app store, powershell, windows terminal and of course all the other apps, games, onedrive locker..
sure quirks along the way but to me it’s been a fine experience..
i don’t tend to customize my iphone or mac either and just use the experience native and it’s been fine..
best times ever on all platforms. love new mac… love new surface pro 8. all great..
I’ve disabled telemetry and such, but I really like Win11 so far. Had to jump through some hoops to get android apps up and running, but otherwise it has been smooth sailing. I’m a MacOS fan though so perhaps what I’m enjoying is the new things that make the UI more like Mac imho.
So, maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't Windows 10 meant to be the forever-Windows? I'm almost sure there was some marketing to that effect from Redmond at the time.
AFAIK there's no official corporate communication to that effect. The whole "windows 10 will be the last windows" thing can ultimately be traced back to something that a evangelist/dev said at a microsoft event. That didn't prevent tech blogs/media from parroting it far and wide though, so that's probably why you might have "remembered" it.
I know people who still use Windows 7 and hate 10. It gets the job done, and modern browsers still run on it because there were no serious API changes between 7 and 10.
I guarantee if these numbers keep trending downward, Microsoft will just find ways to force you into upgrading, or trick you into upgrading like they did with windows 10 and the weirdly phrased update prompt options.
Windows 11 was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, and I no longer have any Windows PCs at home. I also had a friend ask me recently if he should upgrade his Windows 10 PC to Windows 11 and I told him to stay on Windows 10 as long as possible.
Microsoft only have themselves to blame for a whole raft of boneheaded decisions. Starting from when they changed course from: "Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows ever...", to then releasing a buggy and incomplete Windows 11. And since then a constant stream of hostile decisions relating to default browsers, more invasive adverts, and the unescapable MSN gossip articles that seem to pop up all over the place (e.g. you can't get rid of the MSN "news" articles from the widget sidebar thing they added to Windows 11).
This is the first time I've ever held off on a Windows update; I didn't even mind Windows 8
From what I've seen, this one is so bad that I'm assuming they'll be forced to walk it back and/or dramatically rethink it, so I'm just holding out for that
Tbh I like it. Except that I've disabled most of the telemetry, the ads, the handholding and new "features" (lots of github PS scripts available to 'optimize' the initial install). I've also installed StartAllBack to disable the new taskbar which I hate. Now its behaving just the way I like it and it's lean and fast. This, together with WSL2 I don't feel I need anything else as a daily driver.
Windows adoption is largely driven by corporations.
Most corporates align on a common policy of migration to every second major Windows release following this pattern:
Windows NT 4, Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 10
With Windows 2000, Windows Vista, and Windows 11 skipped.
Which is a shame as these same corporates who have fleets of Apple Mac computers normally migrate annually about 6-9 months after each major annual MacOS release.
I hypothesis the reason may be that Windows upgrades tend to be major IT projects with historically large testing and remediation activities, whereas MacOS upgrades are small, introducing a small number of feature enhancements. New Mac computers also are only compatible with the latest MacOS release further encouraging rapid corporate adoption.
> Which is a shame as these same corporates who have fleets of Apple Mac computers normally migrate annually about 6-9 months after each major annual MacOS release.
Those have a much longer support period, though. MacOS 11 works on any Mac from 2013 (or occasionally 2014) on. Windows 11 appears to require at least a Kaby Lake processor; those mostly showed up in mid 2017. Many corporates would still have Skylake or earlier machines knocking around; my work machine is a Skylake MacBook Pro, and that's in a large _software_ company.
This is particularly a problem because Intel has been in a bit of a rut; there's not that much difference between a Skylake chip from 2016 and an Ice Lake one from 2020, particularly on the desktop, so there are a lot of Skylakes still in circulation.
Which is all a bit odd, really; traditionally it has been the opposite. But as Apple's support periods have grown, Microsoft's seem to have shrunk.
Well, there are many issues with Windows 11. Aside from large stuff already discussed over and over again, it's the little things. Alt+Tab current selection is really hard to see. Action center is weird - sometimes it even won't open after clicking, but will pop up at a later time. Clock does not have the seconds counter anymore. Bluetooth devices cannot bee connected via Win+K anymore - it now takes four clicks to reconnect them. Resizing windows to snapping areas (a new feature) is not available on all app windows. Teams app which comes bundled with Windows 11 is only for personal accounts. Video rendering is slow - on
my i7/16GB youtube, for example, almost always lowers resolution automatically, thinking that computer cannot render video even in 720p.
Some design decisions are making me roll my eyes.
System altogether seems more prone to become slow over time and requiring reboot.
And don't get me started on enterprise stuff. We're amidst an open support ticket to investigate 2fa and azure interop issues, which are not moving along swiftly enough.
PS This is a report from a single person (n=1), so take it with a grain of salt. But Windows 11 just seems to be following tradition of one good Windows generation, and then one really bad (like win95 ok, win98 not, win2k ok, winme not, winxp ok, vista not, win7 ok, win8 not, win10 ok, win11 not).
I've been waiting for MS to start pressuring me. When I look at the Windows Update control panel, they aren't even trying to encourage the upgrade to 11, even though they say my computer meets the requirements.
i.e. "Some Windows 10 features aren't available in Windows 11. Certain apps and features may have additional requirements"
Wow, that sounds great. Literally the only thing they have to say is that it's a downgrade. I think that deserves a pause to consider how weird that is. I might even be a bit put out if I was an employee who worked on 11.
I basically only have a windows PC to test compatibility of apps I make, and occasionally play games. MS told me I can’t upgrade so that’s the end of it for me. I don’t really care enough for any of the new features to go buy a new PC
I'm waiting for them to fix all the broken crap in an sp1 release before I upgrade. I'm talking the basic stuff, like switching windows. It's beyond me that they broke this somehow. Or character map. What the hell.
[+] [-] w4rh4wk5|4 years ago|reply
The fact that they are still doing this today suggests that they get something out of these decisions. Or at least they think so.
I can only imagine that the part of customers being alienated this way is/appears insignificant to them. I still believe Microsoft has the necessary resources to put out a truly great OS, but it looks like they don't want to.
[+] [-] supernovae|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] odonnellryan|4 years ago|reply
It isn't like you're going to use Linux ;)
[+] [-] jareklupinski|4 years ago|reply
do they use telemetry on who disables telemetry to balance the data :P
[+] [-] kyriakos|4 years ago|reply
Windows defender is pretty good and edge is a decent browser but the same way Windows annoys you to use it Google uses its services to force chrome on you (for example I get a popup on Gmail every time I open it asking me to switch to chrome no matter how many times I dismiss it, I assume Firefox gets the same).
So maybe as users we got used to the idea of the big corporations trying to fight for our attention.
[+] [-] 0des|4 years ago|reply
> yet more ads
> requires modern hardware
> more surprise updates breaking things
Win11 not as popular? Imagine my shock and dismay.
A sizable portion of my non-tech peers had bad experiences and one by one switched to Linux and the elder two switched to MacOS.
Frankly I am baffled.
[+] [-] samtheDamned|4 years ago|reply
*in a time when new hardware was so freakishly expensive that 4-5 year old hardware was being sold for more than it's original MSRP
[+] [-] Aerroon|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melling|4 years ago|reply
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3038d4/when_was_the_...
Image my shock to find out Windows still has 87% market share.
I’m still unhappy that they took my Sun workstation and gave me a Windows PC.
[+] [-] LeoPanthera|4 years ago|reply
Microsoft gets my money anyway, I suppose, but all my real work is done on a Mac.
It's funny how Microsoft is basically just a gaming company for me, now.
[+] [-] ChuckNorris89|4 years ago|reply
To be fair, Skylake is pretty old. 2015 was 7 years ago which is quite significant in consumer tech years.
[+] [-] novotionworepr|4 years ago|reply
Steam's Proton compatibility layer has come a long way in the past couple of years. It supports most titles without any special configuration, including resource-hungry 3D games like Elden Ring and modded Fallout 4.
[+] [-] Fire-Dragon-DoL|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vyrotek|4 years ago|reply
Instead of addressing this I feel like Microsoft is just going to continue to add tabs to all their applications as justification for it. Edge, VS Code, Windows Terminal, and now File Explorer.
[+] [-] insickness|4 years ago|reply
Start All Back https://www.startallback.com
Explorer Patcher https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher
Open Shell https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
[+] [-] kyriakos|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Urgo|4 years ago|reply
When the news about Windows 11 came out I had just recently upgraded to a new PC, the first pre-built pc I've used for myself since the 90s in fact. It was nice to see though that Dell/Alienware was among the first to be able to get Windows 11 so I was ready to go on launch day.
Launch day came and went and windows kept saying it wasn't ready yet. Then one day (Jan?) the update finally came. It started the install.. but failed. After the failure it popped up a message saying it wasn't ready yet for my device.
From that point on about once a week the update popped up in windows update and automatically started downloading, but after about 12% it failed and kept repeating the not yet ready message.
I'm wondering if the low number is less about who wants it, but more about who they've released it to so far... which seems very very low.
Also, the android integration.. though it works... does not work very well.. For example I wanted to be able to control a smart device that only has an app from my pc. It works at first, but then just reloads over and over again and is unusable until I reinstall it.
Also with the keyboard I have I often fat finger and put a tiny little of pressure on the windows key when I hit ctrl-t. Ctrl-windows-t turns on and off the subsystem for android reader so I get to hear it telling me about that all day long.
Long story short, windows 11 isn't bad.. at least when you get some third party tools to fix the task bar.. but not at all surprised the numbers are so low. But again, I think its more Microsoft's upgrade system's fault then users choosing not to install it.
[+] [-] jeffdubin|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] supernovae|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stagger87|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] uberman|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] supernovae|4 years ago|reply
sure quirks along the way but to me it’s been a fine experience..
i don’t tend to customize my iphone or mac either and just use the experience native and it’s been fine..
best times ever on all platforms. love new mac… love new surface pro 8. all great..
[+] [-] givinguflac|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rsynnott|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TMWNN|3 years ago|reply
It was, until Mac OS moved to version 11 (now 12, and counting). Microsoft couldn't risk being seen as less advanced.
Same reason why Chrome is at version 100 and Firefox is right behind at 99.
[+] [-] gruez|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grishka|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] willis936|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0des|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aneutron|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amanzi|4 years ago|reply
Microsoft only have themselves to blame for a whole raft of boneheaded decisions. Starting from when they changed course from: "Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows ever...", to then releasing a buggy and incomplete Windows 11. And since then a constant stream of hostile decisions relating to default browsers, more invasive adverts, and the unescapable MSN gossip articles that seem to pop up all over the place (e.g. you can't get rid of the MSN "news" articles from the widget sidebar thing they added to Windows 11).
[+] [-] brundolf|4 years ago|reply
From what I've seen, this one is so bad that I'm assuming they'll be forced to walk it back and/or dramatically rethink it, so I'm just holding out for that
[+] [-] plusmax1|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Vladimof|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] guidedlight|4 years ago|reply
Most corporates align on a common policy of migration to every second major Windows release following this pattern:
Windows NT 4, Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 10
With Windows 2000, Windows Vista, and Windows 11 skipped.
Which is a shame as these same corporates who have fleets of Apple Mac computers normally migrate annually about 6-9 months after each major annual MacOS release.
I hypothesis the reason may be that Windows upgrades tend to be major IT projects with historically large testing and remediation activities, whereas MacOS upgrades are small, introducing a small number of feature enhancements. New Mac computers also are only compatible with the latest MacOS release further encouraging rapid corporate adoption.
[+] [-] rsynnott|4 years ago|reply
Those have a much longer support period, though. MacOS 11 works on any Mac from 2013 (or occasionally 2014) on. Windows 11 appears to require at least a Kaby Lake processor; those mostly showed up in mid 2017. Many corporates would still have Skylake or earlier machines knocking around; my work machine is a Skylake MacBook Pro, and that's in a large _software_ company.
This is particularly a problem because Intel has been in a bit of a rut; there's not that much difference between a Skylake chip from 2016 and an Ice Lake one from 2020, particularly on the desktop, so there are a lot of Skylakes still in circulation.
Which is all a bit odd, really; traditionally it has been the opposite. But as Apple's support periods have grown, Microsoft's seem to have shrunk.
[+] [-] Arubis|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tonyedgecombe|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cameronh90|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] laacz|4 years ago|reply
Some design decisions are making me roll my eyes.
System altogether seems more prone to become slow over time and requiring reboot.
And don't get me started on enterprise stuff. We're amidst an open support ticket to investigate 2fa and azure interop issues, which are not moving along swiftly enough.
PS This is a report from a single person (n=1), so take it with a grain of salt. But Windows 11 just seems to be following tradition of one good Windows generation, and then one really bad (like win95 ok, win98 not, win2k ok, winme not, winxp ok, vista not, win7 ok, win8 not, win10 ok, win11 not).
[+] [-] ConceptJunkie|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0xTJ|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] annoyingnoob|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vba616|4 years ago|reply
i.e. "Some Windows 10 features aren't available in Windows 11. Certain apps and features may have additional requirements"
Wow, that sounds great. Literally the only thing they have to say is that it's a downgrade. I think that deserves a pause to consider how weird that is. I might even be a bit put out if I was an employee who worked on 11.
[+] [-] MikusR|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pbnjay|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snarfy|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lostmsu|4 years ago|reply