Ask HN: Taking Time Off?

[second--shift]

Hi all, i wanted to ask the hive mind about subject of taking some extended time off.

I’m relatively early in my career, but have been fortunate financially since i started. I have the ability to pay expenses for a year, or longer.

My question is essentially: is it career suicide to take 3-6 months or more off of “official” work?

With the covid pandemic the past two years, and with work on top I’m feeling the burn-out. I think it would be better for me, and better for my work, if i took some time off.

This would probably involve separating with my current employer, and finding a new position at the end of the sabbatical. I would also keep my skills sharp, programming & collaborating with friends.

[smoe]

Having a burn-out is much more damaging career wise, than taking some time off.

I don't see how many recruiters would have a real problem with someone with work experience having taken 3-6 months off. If it were 1 year plus out of the job I guess it gets a bit trickier unless you have something to show that you did in the meantime. Personally I find it a bigger red flag if someone is job hopping every few months.

E.g. I took 6 months off to travel only 1 year into my career. When I talked to my boss and told him, that I quit for this reason, he immediately made the counter offer to instead just put the contract on hold during that time. Obviously this is not a reaction that you can count on, but there is not exactly a shortage of job options in this field either. So I would take the time off, but make sure that you don't burn trough all the saving before starting the job search again.

[current_thing]

From the been-there-done-that department:

* Sitting in a beach chair gets old in one or two weeks. Use the time to skill up: spend a few hours a day building something, or do a masters degree or short term course - maybe somewhere picturesque in Europe.

* Starting up is going to burn you out more than you are now. And possibly in addition to being burnt out you will have much less money than you do now.

* You will find another job unless you quit into the start of the recession.. then you have hiring freezes all around and you might need to take a sh*y job or work with sh*y people.

* Even if the bubble doesn't pop - for your next gig its unlikely you come in from a position of strength. They WILL low ball your comp on your next job. HR scum have seen this movie enough times.

* Boredom breeds a gambling habit. Don't use your free time to trade exciting markets.

* Cut up your credit cards. Its super easy to pile up "just a months income when I get back to work".

* Put half your money into a long term investment account. Put the rest in a cash account. Never eat into that long term account. When the cash account goes to 10% of what you started with drop everything and begin searching for paid work.

* Be accountable to yourself. Try to something meaningful to show for yourself when you're done.

[second--shift]

> maybe somewhere picturesque in Europe.

This is the daydream that keeps me going now.

I think you have some salient points; I would stay busy in the sense of making things (software) while I'm away.

> You will find another job unless you quit into the start of the recession..

This is probably what I fear, and why I'm asking around. With the inflation & supply chain issues recently, and with the current yield curve inversion, at least in a short-to-medium term sense I think the music is going to stop soon. But macro-economies are cyclical and although bad stuff spreads quickly, I don't think software specifically will have much of a dip even if some other economic sectors do.

I wasn't a professional in 2000-2003 after that downturn, but I was online during that time & witnessed the steady decline of "tech". I'm cautious of the "this time it's different" thesis, but the analog-only lifestyle that was possible in 2000 isn't what people do today - there will be long-term demand for what we/I do (this is my opinion).

To address the point directly: I think if we are starting a recession now-ish, in 6 months' time the subsequent upswing might already be starting - I recall Apr - Sept 2020. I'm confident that I'm average-or-above, which should guarantee work somewhere. If the recession starts in 6 months, I have another 6 months' runway still comfortably, and I can start the search early. I recall in previous recessions companies are still hiring developers.

> Boredom breeds a gambling habit. Don't use your free time to trade exciting markets.

This is sound advice; I only gamble in the sense of a family-and-friends regular poker night. I buy bonds & index funds on a set schedule otherwise in markets. I'm not attracted to gambling; I've met people who are, I don't think it's me. But like you say, don't take chances.

> Be accountable to yourself. Try to something meaningful to show for yourself when you're done.

It sounds like based on yours and other commentary, if the "me" time is successful, I should have artifacts to show it. The time off shouldn't represent a material issue during the subsequent job search. Since you say you have personal experience, what is your anecdote? what did you do, what would you have done differently?

[eklitzke]

I took about 12 months off from working and it was totally fine. When I started looking for work again most companies either didn't ask why I took the time off, or if they did I told them I just wanted to take some time off and they said "cool" and moved on.

The other benefit I got from this is I ended up moving into a different career direction when I did go back to work. Previously I had done a lot of infrastructure stuff in Go/Python, and during my time off I realized I wanted to do more low level work in C++. This wasn't my plan or intention in any way when I took time off, it was just something that occurred to me while I was taking a break. It ended up working out great for me and it's probably something I wouldn't have done had I not had the time to rest, think about things, and then study while preparing to interview again.

[serjester]

I’m currently sitting on a plane to Madrid after quitting my job last week. I was in a similar boat as you.

Personally I’ve never believed in putting off your dreams until you’re least able to enjoy them - retirement. If you’re good at what you do, I highly recommend taking mini retirements every few years. There’s no better way to explore what’s important to you.

But let’s imagine the worst happens and the world plunges into a deep recessions while you’re on your sabbatical. Maybe someone steals your car too. You have a year of expenses saved up. This is huge. Could you take a job waiting tables for a time too? Enjoyable. No. End of the world. Absolutely not. Eventually you will find a tech job again.

This calculus completely changes if you have a family to look after but you sound like you’re young and single. I highly recommend the below thread asking a similar question.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27743368

[jnguyen64]

Pretty interesting timing! I was on a plane ride to Barcelona around the same time you sent this, and I had also quit my job last week as well.

I’m planning on trying out the mini-retirement route. Not much more to add here, but I hope your travels go well!

[second--shift]

Madrid/Spain would be my dream destination. I may go there as well.

No family to speak for (of my own).

[trynewideas]

My 3-month gap to avoid burn-out came up in interviews, including for the job I have now. It was a hard gap - no work, no training, just recovery - and I did have to explain it, but it didn't block any opportunities. And frankly, if it had cost me an opportunity, I don't think I would've wanted to work there.

[second--shift]

This is my base-case, what I'd expect to happen. Thanks for chiming in.

[shoo]

I've taken time off work in the past (by resigning), and found it very helpful to stop my mind cycling through the same worn negative mental pathways caused by work related stress & my perception and emotion about that situation. From memory, after about a month of time off -- with plenty of time outside exercising, lots of discussions with friends and former colleagues, and no software development -- I felt completely different.

In my case it didn't lead to "career suicide", it accidentally led to me becoming aware of the market for contract engineers, so I went and did that for around three years for an effective 3x increase over my old salary, before negotiating a permie role with a salary anchored against my modest contract rate. The 3x jump is less amazing than it sounds as I was paid under market in my prior job.

Much of this outcome was not in my control or due to my skill or planning, it was simply a result of the labour market: there was a good market for software engineers, I had a few solid years of professional experience, I had some professional connections and reputation from working in the old job that let me easily get a different role in a related sector.

If I were in a similar situation in future, my advice would be:

* resigning immediately isn't necessarily the best move, even when you definitely do need to to move on from the current job. First take paid leave (if any remains) or unpaid leave (if that can be negotiated). Then you have a stronger position when negotiating the terms of a new role. But if the market is good and you can get multiple competing offers, maybe that doesn't matter so much.

* recognise how I am feeling and take action to improve or change the situation earlier. Being passive and letting things get worse can impact mental health, which can reduce your motivation to improve the situation and ability plan and execute reasonable decisions.

* in the longer term, you achieve financial independence when you have an investment portfolio with an expected return that covers your baseline living expenses. If you have saved and invested roughly 25x your baseline living expenses into equities, then you are free, things go nonlinear, phase transition, you have achieved escape velocity for infinite sabbatical. Spending accumulated savings to live for 1-3 months without income might be a great short-term move to let you get healthy and explore the next steps for your career or life. Spending accumulated savings to live for a longer time without income might set you back in the longer run and have less upside.

[M5x7wI3CmbEem10]

mind discussing a bit more about how you started doing contract work? I'm very interested in this, but unsure how to make it into a reliable source of income

[garrickvanburen]

Have a job for your job.

When I was a teenager, I had my jobs to acquire some discretionary cash for things my parents refused to fund (e.g. build a skateboard mini-ramp in the backyard). I got a job to get the money to buy the supplies, and spent years enjoying it.

In the intervening decades, I forgot how satisfying it is ot see the job as a means to fulfilling a personal goal.

To me, this purposefulness, this I'm-here-to-achieve-this-personal-goal, eliminates concerns about what a current or potential employer would think about your time not working. As any job is in service to a larger personal goal.

Also, for very experienced people, it sometimes it takes 6-12 months to find the next right role.

Take care of yourself.

[f0e4c2f7]

I worried about this too the first time I took time off to work on a startup. I don't want to imply this will be the case for everyone, but for me I found that when I went back into a more traditional job it was actually much easier to get hired and the offers were generally higher.

I think some of that had to do with the nature of the field I work in and the startup I work on. But in reality, as long as you know how to code...this is kind of the determining factor. You might have to take a job you don't like as much or something (though again, maybe not even that) but there is just such high demand for software developers that it's hard to imagine becoming completely unhirable.

I want to emphasize that my message here isn't that there is no risk, but that after doing it this risk feels much smaller than it initially did.

Even if you aren't working on a startup, you may find that if you label it as your "sabbatical" and casually and joyfully explain that you wanted to try taking a big block of time off to do things you're interested in. Some companies will find this offputting, but as many or more will find it interesting and want to hear more.

Frankly when trying to hire developers companies can't really afford to be picky anyway. If they are it's not a great sign of what it might be like to work there.

[clpm4j]

I took two separate 1-yr breaks in my 20s, and I can't say it has had any negative impact career-wise (some might view fewer years of work experience as a negative, but strictly speaking it hasn't made getting other jobs more difficult for me). If you have a solid skill set / body of work to share and speak about, and great recommendations from previous co-workers then I would say do what feels right to you.

[ellopoppit]

I'm in the same boat as you, and have just begun my 2nd sabbatical.

You'll be fine.

I took a similar 3 month sabbatical about 5 years ago and it was one of the greatest things I've ever done in my life. Really helped me get my priorities straight. After it was over I ended up landing my dream job, which I wouldn't have thought to go for if I hadn't taken time off, including a 40% pay increase within a month of job hunting.

Go for it!

[stocktech]

fwiw, I'm currently ending ~6mo of time off. I'm further in my career, 15 YOE and in management. I didn't plan this and only did it as a result of joining a toxic startup.

The time off itself was great. I struggled to get away from needing to feel productive, but did explore some new tech and played some games. I would recommend a small break to anyone.

You would think being in management would make reentry harder, but I got a good pay bump and switched industries. The market is definitely hot. I also didn't get questioned about my time off. I framed it as "taking care of family" and that was the end of it.

I tell this to my newbies too - make sure you're developing good work habits. If this break is the result of the pandemic, do it. But if you're doing it to get away from work after only a few years of experience, be careful because unsustainable work habits don't go away.

[ad404b8a372f2b9]

When was your last sabbatical and how long was it? You might just need a vacation. There could be a middle ground where you don't have to quit your job and that your employer would be happy to accommodate (if they care about their employees).

Could you arrange with your boss to take a month off to resource yourself?

[second--shift]

I haven't taken any time off since I began working. I have taken several vacations over the last 5 years, between 3-10 days in length (some variance in types, destinations, etc.).

> There could be a middle ground where you don't have to quit your job and that your employer would be happy to accommodate (if they care about their employees).

I would love to discuss this type of exchange - how should I approach this with my current boss? My team has about 5 people but about 10 peoples' worth of incoming work - we are all feeling the pain. I'm fully ready to amicably part ways & not come back - but it seems like it's common to come back to the place one departs from.

[badrabbit]

I think under 25 you would be fine. But if you have significant work history, hard fact is some employers will ask, so long as you can explain I have never heard of a tech job where this was a deal-breaker but don't take mu word for it. It really depends on the hiring manager. I have been told I would be a bad fit because I didn't stay more than 3 years at a job by one employer, another told me I should be making a lot more money at my experience level, even though I continually progressed upwards. Their personality and work culture matters a lot.

If you have decent skills and apply at the typical YC company, I would be extremely surprised if they cared about you taking time off. But apply for a gov clearance requiring job or non-tech well established company, it's hit and miss.

[tboyd47]

An important question, now more than ever.

> This would probably involve separating with my current employer, and finding a new position at the end of the sabbatical.

Why do you assume that? You may find that your manager is entirely sympathetic to your burnout concern. An extended unpaid absence may also let some much-needed air out of the budget for the rest of the team.

Why not just tell your manager you're taking a sabbatical for psychological reasons? It's the truth, and everyone is going through it. They may be willing to save your spot for you.

> I would also keep my skills sharp, programming & collaborating with friends.

Depending on how long you've been coding, your skills won't go dull after 3-6 months. You'll be able to jump right in without issues. If you're going to take a sabbatical, actually take one.

[smileysteve]

To emphasize this, recruiting costs are typically ½ to 1x 1 years salary; and you have developed knowledge.

Dollars and cents wise, I'd encourage any member to take unpaid leave before quitting to the unknown, and any leader in a growing org to accept it. (Besides in large enough orgs they have to plan for this for defense reserves, maternity, paternity, and disability anyway). The worst case scenario is that they quit when they come back, but that's still better than quitting forever today.

[XCSme]

I "quit" for more than 2 years now after the company I was working on went bankrupt. Meanwhile, I am working on my "start-up" project (that I have been working on for 8+ years, always keeping it as a side-thing).

I did apply to a few jobs (nothing really exciting) BUT having a side-project really scares away employers, they don't want someone that has multiple "things" on their mind (even though everyone does, be them start-up projects, hobbies, personal issues, etc.).

[dustinmoris]

I took several times a few months off and once even an entire year. I travelled the world, been to the most amazing places, met incredible people, seen and done things I can’t tell anyone because they’d think I’ve made them up, collected memories which I’ll remember until my grave and every time when I came back and looked for work potential employers were very positive and congratulated me on being brave and they told me every time they regretted that they never did anything like it. So in one short answer: Go for it, 100%!!!

[Tepix]

It seems like everyone agrees that it's not really a problem to take off half a year or even a year.

I'm curious: Are there people who have taken longer breaks? What were the consequences for the careers?

[treis]

I took about three years off to travel after ~12 months of working. It was very difficult to get back into the work force. Partially that was the economic environment. But probably the biggest issue was that I didn't really have the experience to be comfortably above entry level and for entry level roles companies preferred new grads.

That was a non-programming career though. For programmers that can pass a leet code style it's different. You probably could take a dump on a recruiter's desk and still get a job.

But, IMHO, it's wise to get 2-3 years of experience before taking significant time off. At that point you're solidly out of junior/entry level roles and into experienced hires.

[smoe]

I think <=1 year is common enough (at least in some world regions) for it to not be a problem, but much longer and people will start to ask questions, why you left, what you did and why you are coming back. Depending on the answers, it increases the risk of a miss-hire quite a bit especially for the first company that would provide a re-entry.

[second--shift]

I can only imagine that taking longer can represent a greater challenge to re-entering the market. I assume some linear relationship between length of time and difficulty coming back.

[aosmith]

I've taken a year off before and it was great for the most part. The first month or two I hardly touched a computer, I spent time with my family and a lot of time in nature. After a couple months I started getting sucked back in, I limited my involvement to a couple of advisory roles. By month 9/10 I was ready get back back to a more "normal" work cadence.

[starwind]

> is it career suicide to take 3-6 months or more off of “official” work?

Absolutely not. And if you worry about it, there's not law that says you have to put months down for when you worked. Years are sufficient and that will easily mask a 3-6 month hole

[chrismeller]

I’ve gotten burned out and taken 3+ months off between jobs for my entire career. Every future job has respected the fact that I could afford to take that time off.

If you’re asking this question it means you live in the US. As Nike says, just do it.

[bitxbitxbitcoin]

Start a career-adjacent blog during your sabbatical just talking about what you are doing to keep your skills sharp, programming & collaborating on with friends. List that during the duration of your gap on your resume.

[danamit]

I took 2 years break, after like 4 years of work. Totally worth it if you can afford it.

I don't care if that affects my career, I just wanna make enough money to live and that's all.

[ceekay]

Certainly not a career suicide. Sharpen the saw, build things you can showcase, and have a good story to tell when you want to get back to work next year. Enjoy the time off.

[whalesalad]

If you can afford it it’s actually the opposite of career suicide. Sometimes you need to step back in order to see the forest through the trees.

You can’t pour from an empty cup.

[second--shift]

Thanks for the responses so far - not feeling so isolated like I'm the only one who has experienced this feeling.

[adingus]

is it career suicide to take 3-6 months or more off of “official” work?

no