> I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of imagining how they could be.
I was starting to feel this way before I had kids, but having kids completely changed everything for the more interesting.
It’s funny because it’s the exact opposite of what I was told would happen: The story goes that you have kids, lose yourself, and become a boring old parent. Instead, I’m never lacking for fun or creative ideas because I can pick up a creative and hilarious child and go do literally anything together and we’ll have a good time. I’m meeting more new and interesting people than I have at any point since college simply by doing parent things and meeting other parents. I still have time to work on one specific side project, but I’ve learned to stop grinding through the side projects that I didn’t really enjoy anyway. Becoming a parent is a great forcing function to get out and shake up your priorities.
Obviously I’m not recommending becoming a parent as a solution to this problem. However, I wanted to note that the realities of becoming a parent are literally the opposite of what I was led to believe by peers and social media while growing up. Contrary to everything I was told, it’s actually the childless people and couples I know who are entering these periods of “boring” where they struggle for interest or motivation or meaning, while us parents are off having an extremely non-boring and fun time with this new chapter.
I’m a parent of two children and most of the time I’m extremely bored and struggling for motivation.
My older child is a pre-teen constantly screaming and raging about the tiniest things. It’s a tremendous energy drain. But the children are certainly not the reason for my lurking depression: it was there before I had kids, and being a parent hasn’t magically transformed my life with meaning. These things are roughly orthogonal in my anecdotal experience.
I think folks' mileage vary significantly on this, and partly due to a distinction I'd make between being bored and not having energy.
I used to know a family that was as creative as folks would come (immediate family had renowned authors, world class academics, illustrator, etc.), and it was clear that the children played such a central role in continuing to foster a culture that was very creative and "alive." But, it was also true that both parents had WFH jobs (this was over a decade ago), extremely flexible schedules, and were very well off to do. In that context, having kids can be the forcing function you describe, especially if the parents in question are folks already predisposed to being curious and interesting people.
However, I suspect most adults end up suffering from a lack of energy. The daily toil ends up sapping so much of themselves that the necessary energy expenditure to be more child-like isn't there, and you get your usual couch potatoes, nappers, seemingly disinterested zombies. For someone in that situation, adding kids to the equation ends up becoming just ONE MORE THING to completely drain them every day.
I have the totally opposite experience. Everyone I know who has kids is bored: they've given up on their side projects and resigned themselves to jobs they constantly complain about but can't leave because they need to support their family.
So I'm not sure having kids really matters here. I think the mindset change is more important. It's easy to forget that the world has so many interesting things to pick up and do literally anything with, much like your child. My friends who have kids don't think that way.
I am convinced everyone needs a certain amount of stress in their lives. Too little and you end up super-existential; too much and you end up feeling burnt out.
It took me a long time to acclimate to having children. I probably had postpartum depression as a dad. Especially early on, kids are a big stressor, and having them should be a deliberate choice.
It’s also the most impactful work you will ever do, and once you see that for yourself, it’s hard to see your career in exactly the same way.
It's funny because the exact opposite is true for me, and is the reason I won't be having kids. I recovered my creativity and wonder for life through just living life how I want to, rather than based on what I thought was normal or typical. Part of that was rejecting the societal expectation of having kids. Now I have a blast pursuing my interests and looking forward to living the rest of my life this way, without having to make compromises in time or resources for children.
+1, being a parent hasn't made me (more) boring. Sure, I went to work for a large company instead of startups so I have a better/regular paycheck, and I may not play as many games or drink as many beers with friends or hack on as many side projects, but kids are really good at forcing you to prioritize the things in your life that are actually important and meaningful. So I still do all those things, just less so, but more mindfully.
Also, now that my kid is getting older and is starting to have actual interests (e.g. he's really into smart home stuff), I'm able to enjoy and participate in those things more.
I'm on the fence about having kids, but this all is one of the things that makes me consider them. It's going to depend on the partner I end up with, but I feel like I might end up making spending time my kids into one of my 'hobbies'.
I mean, they're right there, you already know them, and get to show them all sorts of new and fascinating things?
I completely agree, having a kid is hard work but its put the universe into alignment for me more than I ever would have expected in terms of healthy priorities at work, balancing my ego-driven motivations out and in the direction and scope of my personal projects.
Your reply made my day. I have two grown children and now an adopted 4 yr old girl. I realize as I get older (52) what a precious gift they are and make time to experience the world through their eyes (esp the 4 yr old who is a hoot). It's hard cause typically when you have kids in your 20/30s you are building a career and everything is a challenge with lots of stress. So as one old guy to younger parents I'd say
1. Don't beat yourself up, life is hard.
2. Go play with your kids and be a kid again.
I have three little children but I can't say I feel more or less boring since having the first one.
What I can say, however, is that I'm absolutely thrilled when I watch my kids watch Home Alone while they go crazy with scream and laughter at Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern getting physically abused by an eight year old with booby traps that would be lethal in real life.
Sounds like you have good kids. Congratulations. I know parents with good kids and I know way more parents with bad kids. The parents with good kids will generally claim they did a better job raising their kids. The parents with bad kids will generally claim the good parents just got lucky. Me, I can't tell. I certainly see most (not all) parents with bad kids doing things that IMO help make their kid bad. Of course there are so many influences on kids on top of the gene lottery so ???
In any case, I've always hoped for your experience.
If there is one category of people who are extremely borinf its parents. I have no kids and the world opens up to me. I can travel where I want, date who I want, read what I like and engage in interesting discussions with people on the street that I've just randomly met.
When I hang out with my parent friends they have one mono topic of conversation: their kids and related subjects.
i think your experience is not a common one. Lots of things have to click in place for that to happen. A satisfying job, supportive spouse and a solid relationship with stakeholders like the in-laws ect.
Most parents are just beat down managing two jobs, taking kids to all the classes, doing chores in the house, worrying about career ect.
> So what went wrong? My gut feeling is that I am boring.
A lot of pain seems to come from a poor vocabulary about feelings.
What is boring? It's a weak and flattened word like the feelings it's
used about.
Do you mean avolition, acedia, irascibility, dissatisfaction,
insensibility, repression, discouragement, ambivalence, anxiety? The
Psychology of the Emotions by Neal Burton is a fair place to continue
the introspective journey you've started [1].
> I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in
childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the world
as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of imagining how
they could be.
Comfortably Numb. There's a dose of it going around. Don't worry it's
an acute condition. All progress depends upon the unreasonable man.
You need to stop being reasonable. Take a good look at the world, and
notice there's still plenty to be really, healthily angry about, and
so much to be joyously in love with. Just don't give in to
ambivalence or settle for the illusion of comfort and safety life
seems to be showing you. Take a risk on it.
For anyone wondering what this person means when he says:
> All progress depends upon the unreasonable man.
Let me share with you one of my all time favorite quotes, from George Bernard Shaw[1]:
>“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
While Shaw himself was a controversial figure even in his own time (roughly a century ago), and would be abhorred by today's standards for many reasons, this particular item, standing alone, remains a particular gem of wisdom.
For a historical example we're all quite familiar with in this industry, think "Steve Jobs". He adapted the world to his vision through innovation and commerce, forcing the creation of entire industries - at least twice over! - as a result. Thanks to him being "unreasonable", the personal computer market emerged which spawned our entire industry. Then with the release of the iPhone, the smartphone market came into existence along with Android and for a time, Windows Phone (RIP).
I strongly disagree with several of Shaw's points of view, but this particular gem has always been a favorite of mine in spite of that. I find it particularly inspiring.
I had a similar problem with emotions: specifically, limited emotional vocabulary and the inability to distinguish what I’m feeling. To help myself, I partnered with an emotion coach and created an app to expand my emotional vocabulary and come into contact with what I’m feeling. https://apps.apple.com/app/emote/id1609038427
> All progress depends upon the unreasonable man. You need to stop being reasonable
and yet there's an unreasonable man invading another country right now.
I dont think progress depends on the unreasonable man. It depends on the reasonable man who would put in the sweat and blood, but might be inspired or paid by the unreasonable man.
I'm afraid most tech people need to get out more. The job is hard, side projects are fun and you need to leetcode in your spare time to get a job. However its very easy to be boring. People benefit from making non-tech friends, play sports, travel, read novels, learn about spirituality, make music, build furniture but I dont see a lot of that happening. I'm a corporate cog and its my biggest regret.
These excerpts from the The Bed of Procrustes by Nassim Taleb resonated with me and I think it applies here.
“You will be civilized on the day you can spend a long period doing nothing, learning nothing, and improving nothing, without feeling the slightest amount of guilt.”
“They are born, then put in a box; they go home to live in a box; they study by ticking boxes; they go to what is called “work” in a box, where they sit in their cubicle box; they drive to the grocery store in a box to buy food in a box; they go to the gym in a box to sit in a box; they talk about thinking “outside the box”; and when they die they are put in a box. All boxes, Euclidian, geometrically smooth boxes.”
Make it easy to start, just try doing nothing for a while, it’s uncomfortable at first but the reset comes soon enough and is quite rewarding.
The bed of procrustes as a whole is also quite thought provoking and I would recommend checking it out.
For some, being a corporate cog has allowed them to do more. Since the added security of cog life usually provides a cushion especially in the tech sector.
Drop stuff that doesn't work. I started programming as a kid. 40 years ago. I wrote a game with a friend while we were at school. It made us a tiny amount of money for 3 years work. I dropped out of programming (several times now). I travelled, close to home, and working in return for food and accomadation (with a scheme called WWOOF). I've done farm work, forestry, woodworking, butchery, construction, blacksmithing. At the moment I'm trying to make a living turning wool from friend's sheep into yarn and hats. Honestly. I accidentally came up with a game and put it online last week cos I thought the idea was funny and interesting, like Randall Monroe's "What If?" (which I was listening to on audiobook before I got the idea). Chances are I just blew a hundred pounds on hosting and domains but maybe, just maybe, it'll bring some money in somehow. otherwise I'll just keep on crocheting. Or some other thing. Don't be one thing. Do shit that you love. Last year I tried making and selling homemade excavator toys (here's an early prototype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5gQZs8edzs&ab_channel=James...). Fuck about. Just don't sit at a desk trying to build the next big thing cos there are thousands of others doing the same. Find what's unique and special about you, even if it's something small. And run with it. Are you boring? What's the craziest story you can tell about yourself?
Yesterday, I went across the Florida Straits overnight and was headed directly for an electrical storm near West Palm. This beauty was shooting bolts into the water and spidering across the sky. We diverted to Ft Lauderdale to avoid going right for it.
When you go to sea, you’re all in. I always was, but sometimes I forget and the sea helps me remember.
First things first: the following is not in any way intended to demean/attack/"throw shade" at you or anyone else in the slightest. Not whatsoever! So please forgive me if it comes across in that way despite my best attempts to the contrary.
That said...
The above, while fantastic for the person who lived that way, "smells" (for lack of a better word) like it comes from someone who hasn't been forced into a rough life. Bouncing around like that is easy when you don't have to worry about whether or not you'll be homeless in the next week because you were illegally fired from your job and the government doesn't care because it's not an easy open-and-shut case where they can automate litigation six years from now (because their caseload is literally that high).
You can't really do that kind of stuff when you have one - or both - parents dying from cancer and they both need full time, in-home care that, being unemployed, you can't afford to provide them. Especially when for whatever reason, they have no retirement savings, pension, 401k, absolutely nothing, and no health insurance either.
So please understand that while I'm honestly happy you've been able to do that, a lot of people just flat aren't for many reasons, the above being mere examples. You might think they're made-up, fictional or convoluted, but they're not: they're my life experience from 2017-2021. I lived those things, and worse, all at the same time.
> A brief note for context: you mentioned "pounds" so I'm assuming you're in the UK, which has a famously fantastic healthcare system. I'm in the US, where ours is...well, we all know what shit smells like, don't we? And herein lies a real life example of how government investment in people - aka "socialism" to some degree - is not a threat to an economy or capital investment, but in fact enables economic growth. /rant
Point is, for some people, that grind is the only thing keeping us alive. There is no safety net. There is no plan b. You either go nose-to-the-grindstone, or you go live under a bridge and eat scraps out out of the dumpster. There's no in between for some of us.
Again, not in any way intended to "throw shade" at you whatsoever. I'm just raising awareness that for some people, this advice, while technically valid and something I really wish was actionable for everyone, is in many cases just flat out impossible. You try it, you wind up homeless, a pariah, and unable to re-enter the industry because who's going to hire somebody without any relevant work experience in the last 3 years? Next!
That said...
> I've done farm work, [...] blacksmithing [...]
I've always wanted to try some kind of blacksmithing! I'M SO JEALOUS!
I don't think you're boring but I do think your brain is feeling cheated for putting in all this work over and over and not getting the dopamine rewards for it afterwards (which in most cases is often praise or money).
I think you need some small wins to keep your motivation going. I read this quote here on hacker news which was very eye opening for me at the time(1). This idealogy of using small wins while you're chasing a big win has helped me a lot when things aren't going your way. I'm a indie hacker too would be happy to tell you some strategies I've developed for creating small wins (though most of them are very specific to my product / industry so I can't say how useful it would be to you)
Thankyou for this comment. It helped me understand why a long running very much not indie project is making me feel quite so fed up. The next step will be to try to use it to fix it.
I'm boring. I know I'm boring, and I'm bored as a result of being boring. I suspect a good part of it is bog standard depression. Tied into that is the difficulty of learning new things; I have a lot of things I WANT to learn, but when I get home at the end of the day I just don't have the mental energy.
I recently moved across the country and currently have precisely nothing happening outside of work; no friends, no family, no romantic partners or dates. I got so bored, I finally setup my dusty, unused piano keyboard, installed a piano learning app on my iPad, and started working through the basics.
It's like a fire was lit in my brain. Or an explosion, or something. I haven't felt that energized in ages. I've been practicing every day since, sometimes for upwards of 2 hours straight (my grade school music teachers would be shocked to hear that). I quickly realized the limitations of the first keyboard (a Roland Go:Keys) and went searching for a "real" digital piano. The first time I laid hands on the keyboard I ended up purchasing (a Korg) I felt an immediate sense of calm and happiness.
I have a couple theories for why I've reacted this way, when I've struggled with so many other things I want to learn:
- Music uses an entirely different part of the brain from my technical day job.
- There is immediate progress.
- Likely related, but I took a couple years of lessons in grade school. I'm likely feeling the reawakening of long dormant brain connections. Which strengthens the above two points.
It has only been a week, honestly only time will tell how long this lasts, but maybe it's jump started I needed to move on to other things I want to learn and be less boring.
Yeah, the physical sensation of playing piano/keyboards is energizing. I guess that's same (or sometimes even more) for other musical instruments. In a sense, it's like physical excursive.
It'd be great if programming gives us similar sensation, but it's purely intellectual, at least to me. I understand it's the point, but still.
There's something obviously wrong in assuming some blanket "creativity" will satisfy whatever needs you may have, but popular cultural heuristics makes it seem right. Just as "innovation" is the solution for every problem, somehow divorcing yourself from your natural inclinations and increasing your risk is the right way to go. What is it the writer wants exactly? Some unknown nirvana of personal expression where you get to escape "the world as it is" and submerge into a childish "sense of wonder"?
Accepting reality is often expressed as settling into some depressing malaise, while "imagining" something "better" is the more proactive, positive choice by default. I will make a bet that whatever spurt of creative "not boring" thing the writer does next will distract for some time and then they will be right back where they started from.
The world needs more people capable of dealing with "the world as it is" and make the boring choice of taking responsibility for it. It's doing the long, boring, thankless tasks that this requires, instead of flailing around in the shallow depths of narcissistic self-actualization, that grants purpose and meaning to what you do. Don't let culture bully you into it's incoherent projections of success and relevance. Being committed,consistent, focused and responsible is boring. Be boring.
After doing programming and being involved in startups for well over a decade, I decided I don't actually like coding nor startups anymore. I still have a company I run with my partners, and I still treat it like my 'job', but there's no passion there. Instead, I've discovered writing novels, music, and other artsy-fartsy stuff as my new passion of the last few years (it had always been a hobby, but I'm taking it much more seriously... not because it'll ever make money, but because I enjoy doing it!)
So my long-winded point is, I don't think there's anything wrong with this. Only you know what your interests are, but don't be afraid to follow them wherever they lead. If you aren't bored, you aren't boring.
I had this same realisation about 6 weeks ago, I had fallen into a routine that was not bad but also never challenging or surprising. Since then I have been trying a bunch of new things to kick myself out of the rut.
A simple idea is to take things you enjoy and do them with other people, for me this meant doing classes at the gym instead of working out at home, booking art classes rather than trying to learn from a book. In some cases this has been amazing (I found an olympic weightlifting class that is the most fun I've had in years), in some cases not so amazing but still glad I tried.
Also I have started meditating (again within a teacher). For me the chief advantage of this is to start noticing your own patterns, and to be more deliberate in what you do. It has helped.
> I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of imagining how they could be.
God that strikes close to home.
I have genuinely pondered how 10-15 years ago when I didn’t know what I was doing, I had a million project ideas and just went for them with no real plan. Some of them panned out, most of them didn’t. Many I still maintain today came out of that raw energy. These days when I do (rarely) come up with a project, I know off the bat how I am going to build it. I’ve been blinded to possibility by my own experience.
I'm not making the connections in the article - business success isn't about whether or not you are boring. Neither is happiness. They even said they were happy. Just not motivated. But living a simple and happy life is not a bad thing. Being boring is different than being bored. Enjoying boring hobbies is still enjoying your world. I don't need to entertain others to live a fulfilling life.
So if the author has problems they want to fix with their work or life, by all means fix them. But "being boring" is not a problem in and of itself.
While I understand the urge to improve one's life, I really feel like we have in general sort of gone off the rails in our quest for a better life.
What we have instead is now some kind of social-media-fueled, angst-driven obsession about self-optimization. Everyone is constantly obsessed with themselves and their own performance in every aspect of life.
Are you efficient enough? Are you productive enough? Are you eating healthy enough? Are you fun enough? etc
As if this wasn't enough, we can't really decide which way we want to go. Because you can't be too efficient or productive, either, since you should obviously also be relaxing and unstressing enough. And spending enough time with your family. But also writing that blog, creating side projects, and so on.
In the end this just creates an endless cycle of sadness and frustration because you're not a machine. You can't fulfill all the unrealistic goals you've set for yourself because you're not a robot.
I've given up on trying to pursue these unrealistic goals and trying to constantly self-optimize. It doesn't mean I'm just content to wallow in my own filth or that I give up on life. It just means I'm not gonna write a blog post about myself where I call myself boring because I'm not able to magically conjure up a viral side project. It means I'm not gonna compare myself to countless youtubers or instagrammers who paint the prettiest pictures of themselves they can.
Do you remember a long, long time ago seeing something gorgeous, like a colorful mineral gem, or the early morning sun on a verdant canopy, and something deep inside of you wanted to consume it? Perhaps you registered that it was not a source of sustenance for your body and still this strange notion persisted?
This is an important faculty for your happiness and creativity. It does not care at all for your logic and reasoning, and thankfully so because our minds would otherwise quickly dispose of it as error and synesthesia.
Now that you know that the sanity brought by your enormous intellectual achievements don't bring you happiness, perhaps it is time to explore this insanity that has patiently waited for your attention.
This blog post seems like a page taken straight out of my journal. Bored with life, knowing I need a change, but not having any motivation to do anything about it. I find it hard to meet new people because I perceive myself as being boring so it's hard to put myself out there.
I went jogging/walking yesterday to start out C25K. I got into cycling last year and I've always loved swimming so I was joking all summer that I could do a triathlon if I learned how to enjoy running.
One thing that I might have discovered yesterday is it seems that if I love my equipment I also enjoy using it. I'm so proud of my bike and love it to death and it makes me so happy to pull it out and ride it around. I've been poking around running shoe stores to find a pair of shoes to run in the last few weeks and I absolutely fell in love with the pair I bought yesterday. I felt so happy putting them on yesterday to run in.
I'm not sure what I can do to fall in love with coding again though. I built a brand new computer last year hoping that would make me want to code but it didn't really bring me the joy my shoes or bike brings me. I worry that I'm over programming but I have no idea what I could replace it with to earn a living.
The article makes a number of keen observations. I don't like how it gets summed up as "stop being boring", as if 'being boring' is a thing rather than the lack of something.
I went through a period of not having an interest I was passionate about. This normally happens but it was for a longer than usual period. I eventually recognized it and made small efforts to find new interests. The pandemic both forced the situation as well as make space to try out new stuff. One of those long-standing things was to play video games which I enjoyed so much growing up and now can never seem to prioritize. Sure it doesn't necessarily have real-world value, but it's something I could enjoy as a minor pastime as I did Go (board game) when I was on a binge.
The part that seems hard as an older adult is that we have less patience for being bad at something at the start when the going is slow. We have to find a way of enjoying the process rather than the results.
> I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of imagining how they could be.
The best way to expand your perspective of the world is move to a new country with a different culture, learn a new language, and make local friends.
I recently moved to Brasil and am learning Portuguese. The language barrier is difficult. Learning how to communicate indirectly is hard. Understanding the different social norms requires you to question some of your core beliefs. I don't think you can learn any of the core lessons without learning the language.
Travel will put you out of your comfort zone, but you should also start having a lot of fun... the type of fun you used to have with friends when you were younger. Not the buttoned up type of fun you have at a dinner party with acquaintances.
"Only boring people get bored" was maybe the best advice I ever got.
I was a teenager and was getting a ride home from a friend of the family.
He asked "How's life going"
And I was in the midst of answering "It's bor.."
But he cut me off and said "Don't say 'it's boring'. ONLY BORING PEOPLE GET BORED."
It was like a splash of cold water in my face, and I always remembered that.
Whenever I start feeling bored now, I remind myself of that quote and start mentally exploring ways to shake things up and break out of the rut. If my mind isn't feeling that creative, then I start looking at what others are doing in my situation and often I'll find some thread of their creativity that I can use to get myself started.
The more you fear being labeled as "boring", the more motivated you'll be to avoid those doldrums.
I sympathize with the author. At the same time, reading a post like this reminds me how out of touch we in the SV/tech realm are. "Boring" here is quite relative, and folks living more average lives would find this kind of attitude to be crazy. Boring? You're healthy, get out sometimes, have hobbies, have written software, have written more than one-line drivel on the web... this is boring? I would call it an attitude or feeling borne out of tech privilege.
[+] [-] PragmaticPulp|4 years ago|reply
I was starting to feel this way before I had kids, but having kids completely changed everything for the more interesting.
It’s funny because it’s the exact opposite of what I was told would happen: The story goes that you have kids, lose yourself, and become a boring old parent. Instead, I’m never lacking for fun or creative ideas because I can pick up a creative and hilarious child and go do literally anything together and we’ll have a good time. I’m meeting more new and interesting people than I have at any point since college simply by doing parent things and meeting other parents. I still have time to work on one specific side project, but I’ve learned to stop grinding through the side projects that I didn’t really enjoy anyway. Becoming a parent is a great forcing function to get out and shake up your priorities.
Obviously I’m not recommending becoming a parent as a solution to this problem. However, I wanted to note that the realities of becoming a parent are literally the opposite of what I was led to believe by peers and social media while growing up. Contrary to everything I was told, it’s actually the childless people and couples I know who are entering these periods of “boring” where they struggle for interest or motivation or meaning, while us parents are off having an extremely non-boring and fun time with this new chapter.
[+] [-] pavlov|4 years ago|reply
My older child is a pre-teen constantly screaming and raging about the tiniest things. It’s a tremendous energy drain. But the children are certainly not the reason for my lurking depression: it was there before I had kids, and being a parent hasn’t magically transformed my life with meaning. These things are roughly orthogonal in my anecdotal experience.
[+] [-] ChicagoBoy11|4 years ago|reply
I used to know a family that was as creative as folks would come (immediate family had renowned authors, world class academics, illustrator, etc.), and it was clear that the children played such a central role in continuing to foster a culture that was very creative and "alive." But, it was also true that both parents had WFH jobs (this was over a decade ago), extremely flexible schedules, and were very well off to do. In that context, having kids can be the forcing function you describe, especially if the parents in question are folks already predisposed to being curious and interesting people.
However, I suspect most adults end up suffering from a lack of energy. The daily toil ends up sapping so much of themselves that the necessary energy expenditure to be more child-like isn't there, and you get your usual couch potatoes, nappers, seemingly disinterested zombies. For someone in that situation, adding kids to the equation ends up becoming just ONE MORE THING to completely drain them every day.
[+] [-] kevmo314|4 years ago|reply
So I'm not sure having kids really matters here. I think the mindset change is more important. It's easy to forget that the world has so many interesting things to pick up and do literally anything with, much like your child. My friends who have kids don't think that way.
[+] [-] mattgreenrocks|4 years ago|reply
It took me a long time to acclimate to having children. I probably had postpartum depression as a dad. Especially early on, kids are a big stressor, and having them should be a deliberate choice.
It’s also the most impactful work you will ever do, and once you see that for yourself, it’s hard to see your career in exactly the same way.
[+] [-] silicon2401|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] efsavage|4 years ago|reply
Also, now that my kid is getting older and is starting to have actual interests (e.g. he's really into smart home stuff), I'm able to enjoy and participate in those things more.
[+] [-] levesque|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JKCalhoun|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gigaflop|4 years ago|reply
I mean, they're right there, you already know them, and get to show them all sorts of new and fascinating things?
[+] [-] pkdpic|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rlawson|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelgrafl|4 years ago|reply
What I can say, however, is that I'm absolutely thrilled when I watch my kids watch Home Alone while they go crazy with scream and laughter at Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern getting physically abused by an eight year old with booby traps that would be lethal in real life.
[+] [-] gfxgirl|4 years ago|reply
In any case, I've always hoped for your experience.
[+] [-] hungryforcodes|4 years ago|reply
When I hang out with my parent friends they have one mono topic of conversation: their kids and related subjects.
[+] [-] dominotw|4 years ago|reply
Most parents are just beat down managing two jobs, taking kids to all the classes, doing chores in the house, worrying about career ect.
[+] [-] lupire|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nonrandomstring|4 years ago|reply
A lot of pain seems to come from a poor vocabulary about feelings. What is boring? It's a weak and flattened word like the feelings it's used about.
Do you mean avolition, acedia, irascibility, dissatisfaction, insensibility, repression, discouragement, ambivalence, anxiety? The Psychology of the Emotions by Neal Burton is a fair place to continue the introspective journey you've started [1].
> I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of imagining how they could be.
Comfortably Numb. There's a dose of it going around. Don't worry it's an acute condition. All progress depends upon the unreasonable man. You need to stop being reasonable. Take a good look at the world, and notice there's still plenty to be really, healthily angry about, and so much to be joyously in love with. Just don't give in to ambivalence or settle for the illusion of comfort and safety life seems to be showing you. Take a risk on it.
[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201601...
[+] [-] MrWiffles|4 years ago|reply
> All progress depends upon the unreasonable man.
Let me share with you one of my all time favorite quotes, from George Bernard Shaw[1]:
>“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
While Shaw himself was a controversial figure even in his own time (roughly a century ago), and would be abhorred by today's standards for many reasons, this particular item, standing alone, remains a particular gem of wisdom.
For a historical example we're all quite familiar with in this industry, think "Steve Jobs". He adapted the world to his vision through innovation and commerce, forcing the creation of entire industries - at least twice over! - as a result. Thanks to him being "unreasonable", the personal computer market emerged which spawned our entire industry. Then with the release of the iPhone, the smartphone market came into existence along with Android and for a time, Windows Phone (RIP).
I strongly disagree with several of Shaw's points of view, but this particular gem has always been a favorite of mine in spite of that. I find it particularly inspiring.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw
[+] [-] hoseja|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] renarl|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chii|4 years ago|reply
and yet there's an unreasonable man invading another country right now.
I dont think progress depends on the unreasonable man. It depends on the reasonable man who would put in the sweat and blood, but might be inspired or paid by the unreasonable man.
[+] [-] rr808|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] galoisscobi|4 years ago|reply
“You will be civilized on the day you can spend a long period doing nothing, learning nothing, and improving nothing, without feeling the slightest amount of guilt.”
“They are born, then put in a box; they go home to live in a box; they study by ticking boxes; they go to what is called “work” in a box, where they sit in their cubicle box; they drive to the grocery store in a box to buy food in a box; they go to the gym in a box to sit in a box; they talk about thinking “outside the box”; and when they die they are put in a box. All boxes, Euclidian, geometrically smooth boxes.”
Make it easy to start, just try doing nothing for a while, it’s uncomfortable at first but the reset comes soon enough and is quite rewarding.
The bed of procrustes as a whole is also quite thought provoking and I would recommend checking it out.
[+] [-] JKCalhoun|4 years ago|reply
Go on walks.
Hike.
Go on long road trips.
[+] [-] verisimi|4 years ago|reply
I am sorting people into virtuals and physicals nowadays.
All my interest is on the physical side of life.
Physical is where I want to be, and I am sort of.. but still I'm too heavy on the virtual.
[+] [-] pkoird|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ct0|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] last_one_in|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] state_less|4 years ago|reply
When you go to sea, you’re all in. I always was, but sometimes I forget and the sea helps me remember.
[+] [-] MrWiffles|4 years ago|reply
That said...
The above, while fantastic for the person who lived that way, "smells" (for lack of a better word) like it comes from someone who hasn't been forced into a rough life. Bouncing around like that is easy when you don't have to worry about whether or not you'll be homeless in the next week because you were illegally fired from your job and the government doesn't care because it's not an easy open-and-shut case where they can automate litigation six years from now (because their caseload is literally that high).
You can't really do that kind of stuff when you have one - or both - parents dying from cancer and they both need full time, in-home care that, being unemployed, you can't afford to provide them. Especially when for whatever reason, they have no retirement savings, pension, 401k, absolutely nothing, and no health insurance either.
So please understand that while I'm honestly happy you've been able to do that, a lot of people just flat aren't for many reasons, the above being mere examples. You might think they're made-up, fictional or convoluted, but they're not: they're my life experience from 2017-2021. I lived those things, and worse, all at the same time.
> A brief note for context: you mentioned "pounds" so I'm assuming you're in the UK, which has a famously fantastic healthcare system. I'm in the US, where ours is...well, we all know what shit smells like, don't we? And herein lies a real life example of how government investment in people - aka "socialism" to some degree - is not a threat to an economy or capital investment, but in fact enables economic growth. /rant
Point is, for some people, that grind is the only thing keeping us alive. There is no safety net. There is no plan b. You either go nose-to-the-grindstone, or you go live under a bridge and eat scraps out out of the dumpster. There's no in between for some of us.
Again, not in any way intended to "throw shade" at you whatsoever. I'm just raising awareness that for some people, this advice, while technically valid and something I really wish was actionable for everyone, is in many cases just flat out impossible. You try it, you wind up homeless, a pariah, and unable to re-enter the industry because who's going to hire somebody without any relevant work experience in the last 3 years? Next!
That said...
> I've done farm work, [...] blacksmithing [...]
I've always wanted to try some kind of blacksmithing! I'M SO JEALOUS!
[+] [-] superasn|4 years ago|reply
I think you need some small wins to keep your motivation going. I read this quote here on hacker news which was very eye opening for me at the time(1). This idealogy of using small wins while you're chasing a big win has helped me a lot when things aren't going your way. I'm a indie hacker too would be happy to tell you some strategies I've developed for creating small wins (though most of them are very specific to my product / industry so I can't say how useful it would be to you)
(1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5630618
[+] [-] shubb|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] XorNot|4 years ago|reply
A template has no immediate utility, and OAuth2 and OpenID are nightmare protocols where dreams go to die.
[+] [-] burntwater|4 years ago|reply
I recently moved across the country and currently have precisely nothing happening outside of work; no friends, no family, no romantic partners or dates. I got so bored, I finally setup my dusty, unused piano keyboard, installed a piano learning app on my iPad, and started working through the basics.
It's like a fire was lit in my brain. Or an explosion, or something. I haven't felt that energized in ages. I've been practicing every day since, sometimes for upwards of 2 hours straight (my grade school music teachers would be shocked to hear that). I quickly realized the limitations of the first keyboard (a Roland Go:Keys) and went searching for a "real" digital piano. The first time I laid hands on the keyboard I ended up purchasing (a Korg) I felt an immediate sense of calm and happiness.
I have a couple theories for why I've reacted this way, when I've struggled with so many other things I want to learn: - Music uses an entirely different part of the brain from my technical day job. - There is immediate progress. - Likely related, but I took a couple years of lessons in grade school. I'm likely feeling the reawakening of long dormant brain connections. Which strengthens the above two points.
It has only been a week, honestly only time will tell how long this lasts, but maybe it's jump started I needed to move on to other things I want to learn and be less boring.
[+] [-] flakiness|4 years ago|reply
It'd be great if programming gives us similar sensation, but it's purely intellectual, at least to me. I understand it's the point, but still.
[+] [-] shaftoe444|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boh|4 years ago|reply
Accepting reality is often expressed as settling into some depressing malaise, while "imagining" something "better" is the more proactive, positive choice by default. I will make a bet that whatever spurt of creative "not boring" thing the writer does next will distract for some time and then they will be right back where they started from.
The world needs more people capable of dealing with "the world as it is" and make the boring choice of taking responsibility for it. It's doing the long, boring, thankless tasks that this requires, instead of flailing around in the shallow depths of narcissistic self-actualization, that grants purpose and meaning to what you do. Don't let culture bully you into it's incoherent projections of success and relevance. Being committed,consistent, focused and responsible is boring. Be boring.
[+] [-] brittonrt|4 years ago|reply
So my long-winded point is, I don't think there's anything wrong with this. Only you know what your interests are, but don't be afraid to follow them wherever they lead. If you aren't bored, you aren't boring.
[+] [-] shaftoe444|4 years ago|reply
A simple idea is to take things you enjoy and do them with other people, for me this meant doing classes at the gym instead of working out at home, booking art classes rather than trying to learn from a book. In some cases this has been amazing (I found an olympic weightlifting class that is the most fun I've had in years), in some cases not so amazing but still glad I tried.
Also I have started meditating (again within a teacher). For me the chief advantage of this is to start noticing your own patterns, and to be more deliberate in what you do. It has helped.
ymmv
[+] [-] donatj|4 years ago|reply
God that strikes close to home.
I have genuinely pondered how 10-15 years ago when I didn’t know what I was doing, I had a million project ideas and just went for them with no real plan. Some of them panned out, most of them didn’t. Many I still maintain today came out of that raw energy. These days when I do (rarely) come up with a project, I know off the bat how I am going to build it. I’ve been blinded to possibility by my own experience.
[+] [-] codingdave|4 years ago|reply
So if the author has problems they want to fix with their work or life, by all means fix them. But "being boring" is not a problem in and of itself.
[+] [-] IceDane|4 years ago|reply
What we have instead is now some kind of social-media-fueled, angst-driven obsession about self-optimization. Everyone is constantly obsessed with themselves and their own performance in every aspect of life.
Are you efficient enough? Are you productive enough? Are you eating healthy enough? Are you fun enough? etc
As if this wasn't enough, we can't really decide which way we want to go. Because you can't be too efficient or productive, either, since you should obviously also be relaxing and unstressing enough. And spending enough time with your family. But also writing that blog, creating side projects, and so on.
In the end this just creates an endless cycle of sadness and frustration because you're not a machine. You can't fulfill all the unrealistic goals you've set for yourself because you're not a robot.
I've given up on trying to pursue these unrealistic goals and trying to constantly self-optimize. It doesn't mean I'm just content to wallow in my own filth or that I give up on life. It just means I'm not gonna write a blog post about myself where I call myself boring because I'm not able to magically conjure up a viral side project. It means I'm not gonna compare myself to countless youtubers or instagrammers who paint the prettiest pictures of themselves they can.
[+] [-] ganzuul|4 years ago|reply
This is an important faculty for your happiness and creativity. It does not care at all for your logic and reasoning, and thankfully so because our minds would otherwise quickly dispose of it as error and synesthesia.
Now that you know that the sanity brought by your enormous intellectual achievements don't bring you happiness, perhaps it is time to explore this insanity that has patiently waited for your attention.
Namaskar, seeker
[+] [-] evandale|4 years ago|reply
I went jogging/walking yesterday to start out C25K. I got into cycling last year and I've always loved swimming so I was joking all summer that I could do a triathlon if I learned how to enjoy running.
One thing that I might have discovered yesterday is it seems that if I love my equipment I also enjoy using it. I'm so proud of my bike and love it to death and it makes me so happy to pull it out and ride it around. I've been poking around running shoe stores to find a pair of shoes to run in the last few weeks and I absolutely fell in love with the pair I bought yesterday. I felt so happy putting them on yesterday to run in.
I'm not sure what I can do to fall in love with coding again though. I built a brand new computer last year hoping that would make me want to code but it didn't really bring me the joy my shoes or bike brings me. I worry that I'm over programming but I have no idea what I could replace it with to earn a living.
[+] [-] karmakaze|4 years ago|reply
I went through a period of not having an interest I was passionate about. This normally happens but it was for a longer than usual period. I eventually recognized it and made small efforts to find new interests. The pandemic both forced the situation as well as make space to try out new stuff. One of those long-standing things was to play video games which I enjoyed so much growing up and now can never seem to prioritize. Sure it doesn't necessarily have real-world value, but it's something I could enjoy as a minor pastime as I did Go (board game) when I was on a binge.
The part that seems hard as an older adult is that we have less patience for being bad at something at the start when the going is slow. We have to find a way of enjoying the process rather than the results.
[+] [-] MrPowers|4 years ago|reply
The best way to expand your perspective of the world is move to a new country with a different culture, learn a new language, and make local friends.
I recently moved to Brasil and am learning Portuguese. The language barrier is difficult. Learning how to communicate indirectly is hard. Understanding the different social norms requires you to question some of your core beliefs. I don't think you can learn any of the core lessons without learning the language.
Travel will put you out of your comfort zone, but you should also start having a lot of fun... the type of fun you used to have with friends when you were younger. Not the buttoned up type of fun you have at a dinner party with acquaintances.
[+] [-] mattjaynes|4 years ago|reply
I was a teenager and was getting a ride home from a friend of the family.
He asked "How's life going"
And I was in the midst of answering "It's bor.."
But he cut me off and said "Don't say 'it's boring'. ONLY BORING PEOPLE GET BORED."
It was like a splash of cold water in my face, and I always remembered that.
Whenever I start feeling bored now, I remind myself of that quote and start mentally exploring ways to shake things up and break out of the rut. If my mind isn't feeling that creative, then I start looking at what others are doing in my situation and often I'll find some thread of their creativity that I can use to get myself started.
The more you fear being labeled as "boring", the more motivated you'll be to avoid those doldrums.
[+] [-] andrewstuart|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] psim1|4 years ago|reply