Despite the warning, I didn't find it nearly as "ranty" as the author cautioned, and instead seemed like a fairly comprehensive and fair take on his experience.
Having gone through the same thing myself several years ago, the UI aspect of it is something that I'd be curious to see how it develops for the author. I think it is not uncommon for Windows folk to find the windowing experience on macs rather painful, at least at first. However, after a while, it sort of "made sense" to me, if that makes any sense at all. There are some clear UX philosophies that are very different, and the initial transition can only be pretty jarring, but I'm curious what the author would say about it after a month or two.
Also, fwiw, I think most power Mac users also marshal the use of some other programs to help along with some of that (or at least to tailor it more closely to what they want the experience to be). Rectangle is one of the first installs on any Mac I put my hands on... makes window management so much more pleasant!
Not that it's right or wrong, but the behavior dates back to the very first implementations of Mac OS and Windows. Mac OS has always been an application switching interface, and Windows has been a window switching interface. Takes getting used to the paradigm shift.
I never got used to it after a year. I wasn't even a "new" Mac user as I'd previously used Jaguar/Panther/Tiger/Leopard as well as Classic and even NeXTStep. But while those were better than XP time has marched on and I don't feel like MacOS improved enough compared to the competition (with regards to window management). If anything should have been Sherlocked it should have been rectangle/magnet etc.
I also feel like Apple cripples mice, it's a very trackpad centered workflow and if you're not using one it suffers. Also they really need to have a separate mouse scroll toggle built in.
I've been on Mac for 10 years now and I still consider the way Windows handles windows vastly superior.
The fact that cmd-tabbing to a app will place all of its windows on top means that I might be forced to move a window with the mouse to see what's underneath it which I find infuriating. The fact that two windows belong to the same app is an arbitrary distinction to me. I group things by mental "projects", and I prefer to maintain my window z-order based on that.
I never liked using virtual desktops and I just downloaded altTab which I've read about in threads here, but it seems to flicker weirdly and it has already crached on me once within a 1/2 hour timespan so I don't foresee myself keeping it.
I'm now on 7 years since the first MBP provided to me by an employer.
It's just as terrible as ever. I would not use an Apple product outside of work, despite some thousands of hours using one over the last several years. Everything about using a Mac feels patronizing and intended to make me work harder than I should to do the most simple tasks.
Agreed. The distinction between applications and windows that macOS/Mac OS has always made was jarring at first, but definitely one of those things that after the initial adjustment simply feel different rather than objectively better or worse.
I think the bit on window management reads a little too much like someone who sort or made up their mind upfront. I use windows in my professional life, because that’s how we roll in Denmark, but back in 2015 I bought my first personal MacBook and it’s been a great relationship ever since.
On windows I need to install tools for things like snapping pictures because the default snipping tool isn’t quite good enough. I also hate window management, especially on multiple screen setups where you can’t move the mouse from one screen to another if the resolutions are different (4k screens and an open laptop as an example). Mean while a lot of the things the author complain about are things I find decent on a Mac. The fact that you can easily auto-size windows so that you have 1 full screen, 2 half screen apps, and x csized windows on 3 different window spaces is just awesome.
The biggest issue is that even after 7 years I still have no idea how many little tricks I still don’t know about Mac OS because it never tells you how to use it and pressing shift command (or maybe it’s option) 4 to snap a screenshot isn’t exactly intuitive.
I get that some people prefer that, but I've been on macOS daily for 10+ years and still can't find the top level OS paradigms (window switching, over reliance on mouse/extremely poor keyboard support, lack of proper "maximized" windows) anything but painful.
It might be that growing up with windows ingrained certain gestures on my mind that I can't let go, but I feel like I've decidedly given it a shot. And I still hate it.
Yes, there are workarounds, but they're workarounds that require third party applications. I expected more from the OS.
Most recent newcomers to Mac and ex-Windows users get tripped up by the fullscreen windows, which are honestly pretty bad.
The way to use MacOS is to use the Spaces to group windows by theme / task. For example, I have one space where I have Slack, Skype, Teams, Discord, Mail and Outlook currently open. Another one has my main "browsing" Chrome window. Another one has my iTerm (the only fullscreen app). And the last "permanent" one has my "debugging" Chrome window. They're always in the same order (none of that "reorder automatically" nonsense), so I can switch tasks using the mouse (2-finger swipe left/right on the Magic Mouse), trackpad (3-finger swipe) or keyboard (ctrl-left/right). Inside a Space, I switch between windows using Exposé (swipe on trackpad, double-tap on mouse or F3 on keyboard).
I've been using macOS both in my personal & professional life like this since Leopard and I think it works pretty well.
> I think it is not uncommon for Windows folk to find the windowing experience on macs rather painful, at least at first. However, after a while, it sort of "made sense" to me, if that makes any sense at all.
I always feel like Apple optimises UX very heavily for laptops (small screens, fullscreen-first makes a lot of sense), where Microsoft optimises more for desktops (large screens, multiple apps sharing the screen makes more sense). I find windows really clumsy on small laptop screens, even though it works great on my desktop :/
I concur on "it sort of made sense to me" in regard to the windows management and I don't think this is due to the fact that I am getting used to the ways of macOS, at least this part.
When I use Windows occasionally, I miss the command+` to switch between windows of the apps, especially when they are far separated out in the Alt+Tab preview.
I can't shake off the impression that Apple does not offer options for better window management to make your screen more cluttered and thus sell you more displays.
When using macOS, I badly miss window management options available on Linux. (And don't get me started regarding font rendering.)
As a lifetime windows user that just recently joined a macBook company, i have to say i am indifferent overall, but there have been many alternating moments of delightful surprises and annoyances of unmet expectations in my journey to learn the MacOS UX.
I'm a month in now and i have to say that attitude is everything when it comes to learning something new, and, especially when you know something "kind of like this", you have to be very careful not to let your unmet expectations of something similar sour the experience.
When i started with Windows as a kid i didn't have a "choice" in the matter, it's just what we had, and i had to learn all those tricks and tips along the way to improve my user experience. If i used that to temper the curve of getting a good user experience from my Mac i'd have to say that Mac got it closer to the target by a magnitude.
So, when you don't get the experience you need, instead of defaulting to "this is dumb", ask yourself why they did it this way, and why you expect it that way, and then if you still want it that way after considering a new perspective, chances are there's an app for that.
* Put the Dock left or right, vertical space is precious (trust me, do it for a week and then decide)
* Setup Hot-Corners (Settings -> Mission Control -> Hot Corners)
- Upper-Right Corner as Mission Control (Must be upper right so spaces are immediately shown)
- Lower-Left Corner as Application Windows
- just fling your mouse curser into the corner (use std. gestures on the trackpad)
This makes window management a lot better.
* Maximise Windows by double clicking the Window title bar.
* Disable auto-{correction, capitalize, etc}, smart-quotes under Keyboard settings (if you want)
* Learn about the screenshot shortcuts CMD+shift+{3,4}, 3: full screen, 4: select area or switch to window select with hitting space bar once.
* Learn about CMD+space for launching apps
* Set Key-Repeat to fast and shorten the delay
* Disable spotlight for everything except what you want to use it for.
* Enable File-Vault
* Disable "Wake for Network Access" under Energy
* Enable the ssh server under Sharing "Remote Login" (If you want)
* Disable the visual/audible bell in the Terminal profile.
* Install MacPorts/Homebew
And one thing to internalize is that Apple is a little authoritarian about some UX aspects.
For example the snapping and window thing... Apple has a thing with continuos freedom opposed to the discretisation one is used to. I've come around to that view as well actually, free your mind, nature is not a stepped slider.
Cool Utilities:
MenuMeters with a CPU usage graph. this allows you to see if something is killing your battery.
MonitorControl (on github) to set brightness of external monitors.
LittleSnitch ($$) for fellow paranoid control freaks
IINA (github) best video player
UTM for VMs (free on github) paid options are good too
Someone needs to tell him about option-click on the maximize button.
Most of these "rants" really just amount to: "this different OS doesn't work exactly the same way as the OS I am used to." That's why 3rd party utilities exist to give you the functionality you wish to have. That formula cuts both ways.
The author makes a big deal of lack of snapping. Frankly I've never seen the utility of it on OSs that do have it, infact I've always felt it more of a hinderance than a help (gets in the way, tries to snap when you don't want it to).
The author makes a big deal that you have to do Command+Tab to switch applications, and then Command+` to cycle between windows in that application. Well, frankly I think thats the better way, I'll give you an example:
Let's say (as you do) you have a dozen browser windows open (maybe in more than one browser) ... do you REALLY want to sit there hitting Command+Tab dozens of times ? No. Its quicker to switch to the desired app and then cycle within the app. That way you don't cycle through the browser when you don't need to.
Finally there are some, frankly bizarre, comments in the blog post, such as:
> However, that keyboard doesn’t have the Option (⌥) or Command (⌘) keys like on my Macbook.
Well, yeah, its not Apple's problem if you choose to use a PC keyboard with your Mac. Most people would either use the built-in Mac keyboard or buy an external one (third-party Mac keyboards are available from the usual suspects if you don't fancy an Apple one).
I gave up reading the blog post around that point ("The Undecided" header to be precise).
> Let's say (as you do) you have a dozen browser windows open (maybe in more than one browser) ... do you REALLY want to sit there hitting Command+Tab dozens of times ? No. Its quicker to switch to the desired app and then cycle within the app. That way you don't cycle through the browser when you don't need to.
I'll see your use case and raise you a:
Let's say you now have two dozens of browser windows open on two desktops. And you also have a dozen terminal windows open also across two desktops. You've just googled something on desktop 1, and trying it out in terminal 1, now you get a beep from Slack on desktop 2, which is not maximized because you were communicating something from your workspace there so it was needed on the right half of the screen. You read the message, you alt-Tab back to the terminal... and end up in a different terminal on the current workspace.
It feels like this was done to work around the fact that windows are grouped by application in MacOS, so that Alt-Tab between a browser and terminal always stayed on the same workspace.
Sorry for the snark in advance: Are you for real? I do want IDE and documentation in browser next to each other on my 31.5" 1440 screen, thank you very much.
I get where the author is coming from, but I too prefer the cmd-tab to switch between applications, and cmd-backtick to cycle through windows in the application. I do more of the latter than the former.
Neither do I care that much for snapping. What I really prefer is for my windows to be where I left them, and MacOS is pretty good about keeping them that way.
> The author makes a big deal of lack of snapping. Frankly I've never seen the utility of it on OS's that do have it, infact I've always felt it more of a hinderance than a help (gets in the way, tries to snap when you don't want it to).
It may be useful for users of large external monitors, allowing to make better use of the screen real estate. Then again, Macos lacks per-application menu bars, which means you cannot do a lot of tasks without focusing the app first, so IMHO lack of snapping/advanced windows management is not as big as a deal as it would be under Windows.
I've never used snapping on any OS, but on MacOS I feel the need even less, because the programs seem really really good about remembering my window positions once I have things setup the way I want.
Nobody seems to know about App Exposé, which you can trigger with ctrl+down. I also have it set for three finger swipe down. You can then use the arrow keys to move between windows if you don't want to use the mouse, and it includes minimized windows as well, which cmd+` does not.
As a longtime user of Macs this is dead on. Mac OS UX feels cumbersome today in a way it never used to feel. A lot of that is by comparison to Windows 10/11 and Linux, rather than actual regression, but it doesn’t change the fact that it feels bad. I remember first using OSX and it feeling like a revelation compared to Windows.
Honestly it wouldn’t take much to fix this. If they implement drag windows snapping; rethink full screen mode; and improve the intelligence of dock autohiding, I think it would do a lot, but as is I feel like I am fighting the software to do basic window navigation.
At the same time, I think Apple is currently doing some of their best most sensible hardware design and their quality control has only gotten better.
Despite my misgivings about Mac OS I still choose a Mac for work because I need a laptop and I want a quality machine, but I really hope Apple take a long hard look at MacOS and devotes some resources to pushing desktop operating systems forward again.
Win7 taskbar and Win10 taskview was huge improvement. Both basics are based on macOS Dock and Expose but improved. Meanwhile Apple stopped improvement.
I think this is a pretty fair article. I'll add one more:
in MacOS there is no unified way to get to the beginning or end of a line. In Linux and Windows this is done with the Home and End keys. In Mac, there are some shortcuts but they are not universal, what works in terminal may not work in a browser textarea and so on. Some programs interpret the same shortcut as "go to the very end of the text (as in a PgDown key) but that same shortcut, in another program, might go to the end of the line (like the End key).
Please let me know if I'm missing something! Every time I make a web search about this topic, I end up in various pages like this one[1] with shortcuts that don't work for me for the reasons explained above.
EDIT: I found out that there are some Mac keyboards with the Home and End keys. So it seems that this is not an OS issue but, I guess, a MacBook issue (I've only ever used MacBooks and always without external keyboard).
Funny. Coming from macOS to Linux Mint, I find I can make many of the same or similar arguments but against Linux.
The UI is inconsistent, esp. wrt the menu bar. Keyboard shortcuts are inconsistent across different apps. macOS remembers window positions, GNOME doesn't. macOS can use different backgrounds for different monitors, GNOME can't. The GNOME Panel is a poor substitute for the macOS Dock (which itself is severely limited) i.e. doesn't offer any visual cue that an app is launching. I could go on.
As someone who switches around between primarily Windows and secondarily OSX, and GDM3, I find OSX to have the most intuitive window manager. I don't like apps being maximized, and I feel like I can always intuitively find the window I'm looking for in OSX, just under the active window. I find myself arranging windows in Windows like OSX might arrange them. Maybe Apple is just using a different metaphor. I understand this is very subjective though.
Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators.
Is this still really the case? Most of what I hear nowadays is Apple's reputation is that their products are luxury status symbols rather than a tool for creative types, outside of maybe the camera on the iPhone. 10 years ago, you might have seen the coffee shop filled with macbooks, but that's not the case today. What artist is going to afford a $1900 monitor that can only be height adjusted with a $400 upgrade?
When you’re used to something else the change hurts. I have found it far better to not bring your mental baggage with you and meet the new platform as its level rather than try and make it the same as the old one.
I have gone MOS > RiscOS > WinNT -> Solaris -> Linux -> Win7 -> macOS and it hurt every time.
I actually like the command+tab behavior, and miss it when I use Windows.
I'll explain: if you have a lot of windows open, I think it's nice to silo them. When I have ten Firefox windows and six Sublime windows and three iTerm windows, and a few other random applications, it's generally easier to go first to the app I want and then find the window inside it, rather than always having to shuffle through 19 different windows at the top-level.
This is probably a matter of personal preference and habit, and you can make a good case for either behavior. I just don't think macOS' behavior is obviously worse... only different.
I have never spent much time on Windows machines but I _love_ cmd-` on the Mac. I mean, I have a whole rant about how its ordering behavior changed on Lion for the worse but I love having windows grouped by application and picking the app I care about before picking the window I care about. I have never understood why so many people use a single chrome window for all of their tabs but I think it comes from not being experienced with cmd-`. For me, I group tabs in my browser by subject, most commonly, by google search query, and then I can close them all at once when I'm done with them.
I've actually started braking more websites out into their own fluid.app so that I can cmd-tab to them specifically. Jira, Github, Gmail (well, when I used gmail) all get their own app so I don't have to go hunting for that single tab in my browser, making my browser window management that much easier.
If you're interested in that, I pair fluid.app with choosy so that links open in the correct fluid browser.
I've had a long background of Windows and Linux usage but I've used MacOS a significant time as well - I'm daily driving a 2018 MacBook Pro 15 and use a Windows Desktop for WFH because it's much more powerful an silent. And I'm also developing on .NET core right now which is a Microsoft tech.
With that said I would say MacOS grows on you. On my 34 inch screen using snapping is just not practical - I just move windows around and have plenty of visual space and can quickly move my head to move attention to a different window, find other windows through overlaps - I prefer this to tabbing - and this is when working on my Windows desktop.
Returning to Windows after not regularly using it for last 3 years it's sad to see that the UI has regressed with Windows 11. For example windows had system calendar app that would connect to the system calendar in the bottom right and show event previews for the day and you could click on the day and get day summaries, sort of like Itsycal but built in. They removed this in Windows 11.
I think MacOS is strictly better for most of my use cases :
- The new right click UI is clunky and obviously touch optimized, most of the OS is going this way and it's shit for desktop usability
- Dark mode support is hit-and-miss, much better in MacOS
- PowerToys Run doesn't work reliably at all compared to Mac CMD + Space which works without a hiccup
- chocolatey is garbage compared to homebrew
Where Windows beats MacOS for me :
- Docker performance is much much better
- WSL/linux integration is fairly nice (using OpenSuSe rolling release to get relevant software, Ubuntu LTS they provide is ancient)
I always find this interesting, my primary computing device that I do actual work on is Mac (technically I guess my primary is my iPhone or iPad if I go by time but I am not counting that). But I have a Windows computer for gaming and a few Linux machines lingering around.
I constantly find myself frustrated by Windows because I am just used to how Mac operates. I have been using it as my primary compute device since Lion.
However one of the things that I find interesting from the Window management point that I don't see mentioned, touchpad gestures. I cannot use Mac without gestures, even when I am using my laptop as a desktop I use the Magic Trackpad. The few times I have tried to use a mouse... it just feels wrong. I would highly recommend taking a look at this and looking at the window management from this prospective. Because of these gestures I never think I need to snap things because switching windows is a quick swipe and and a click. Then all the other gestures, hot corners, etc.
That being said, I find the same issue with my partner. He has never used a Mac (has an iPhone though) but sometimes he needs to do something quick so grabs my laptop. It is fascinating watching him struggle with the trackpad and other basics that to me I don't even think about anymore.
There's a lot of people in comments defending macOS saying that the difference in switching between operating systems will lead to a bad experience no matter what and people just need to power through and learn the new system.
I'll say that I've used Windows and macOS both personally and professionally for two decades now (longer for Windows). I'd consider myself a power user in both OSes, I know the keyboard shortcuts, I know the OS settings somewhat in depth, and I've used a lot of the common tools to extend each OS.
My experience is that Windows has far better UX for pretty most end users.
I have 4 monitors connected to my Windows computer. I just plugged them in and it worked. I've burned hours fighting with external monitors on macOS. Is it even possible to have 4 external monitors? Actually you can extend this to all sorts of peripherals.
Windows explorer feels way more productive than finder. It still bothers me that I can't cut and paste folders by default.
I revert to the command line way more on macOS than I do on Windows. That's a skill that your average user isn't going to have.
I found my old Oregon Trail 3 CD two months ago and decided to play it. I had to navigate a few context menus but this 1997 game booted right up on Windows, how many hoops do you think I'd have to jump through to run a Mac OS 8 application on my MacBook Pro?
And there's a bunch of other examples I could give. There's a lot of reasons people like Apple products and if the interface works for you, great! But I don't think it's fair to dismiss critiques as ignorance of lack of ability.
>you use what they give you, how they give it to you, using their workflows, barely customizing anything. Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators. Why do I feel like there are training wheels on a machine I use for productivity?
Gosh, this is exactly how I felt in a similar situation. Really hit the nail on the head.
I've used Linux for a long time, and for a while I was kindly forced to use a Mac (got a Linux laptop last week). It was a painful experience that took a heavy toll on my productivity.
My impression is that Mac has so many idiossincrasies that fans just assume are "intuitive" while they're really not - they've just been used to it for a long time. Personally I hated, hated the usability. Can't stress it enough, it absolutely sucked. Never again!
Also the benefits compared to non-Macs are diminishing over time. You can get great hardware and battery life with system76 for instance.
3 of the 4 items that the author mentioned can be solved with using NixOS inside a VM on your mac :)
Inspired by Mitchell Hashimoto's VMWare setup[0]. I setup my own computer in such a way, I now have the best of both worlds. Developing on a linux machine, where I can control everything if I wanted (down to the OS) and the ease of Notes/iMessages whenever I need it.
Window management is a pita because of internal APIs and the fact that Apple doesn't cater to people that actually care about these tools. Check out Yabai[1] which btw requires you to disable SIP (System Integrity Protection) if you want to use its full potential.
Instead you can run NixOS and choose your favourite window/tiling manager (i3).
Package manager: I still run Nix but I am not that happy with it. Either I need to spend some more time or look for an alternative. One of the problems is the ability to easily pin older versions.
If corporate IT isn't okay with you installing third party window management tools, I can't imagine they'd be thrilled to discover you're running some oddball OS inside a VM on your corporate machine in order to hide unvetted third-party software.
Likewise, I doubt the OP or people like them would get away with disabling System Integrity Protection or loading untrusted kernel modules.
I switched to a Mac Mini M1 in December and it has been a complete pain in the ass. First of all, to even be able to use it I had to switch out my monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers because Apple didn't like them. And then I had to buy an extra dock to get more ports. On top of that I've also had to install a bunch of third party software to get basic functionality like window snapping (Moom), and a functioning scroll wheel and the ability to turn off mouse acceleration (SteerMouse).
And don't get me started on the absolute bonkers ways you toggle between applications, or the fact that you need to click TWICE on a window when switching between windows, if you want to type something in it. My desk is absolutely cluttered with application windows, because minimizing them apparently makes Mac treat them as if you never want to see them again, which messes with my voice control software. Oh, and why is there no delete button? And why do I need to be so precise when clicking on desktop icons, instead of just having a bounding box around them? Who thought that was a good idea? And while we're on desktop icons, why on earth aren't they sorted and fixed to a grid by default? Does anyone like unorganized items in folders??
Another thing that annoys me is pop-up windows with no freaking option to close them other than clicking "done" or whatever. What if I don't want to apply any of the changes I've made? Why can't I just cancel?? I could go on and on about UI inconsistencies and various bugs I've encountered. Needless to say I'm switching back to Windows (which isn't without its own problems) next time I'm buying a computer.
This mac has made my RSI go haywire. I've tried to do everything the "Apple way", but it's just always so clunky and slow compared to Windows.
Nice article. Coincidentally we have the same computers, even the same specs. I’ve been on macOS for 11 years now, so I’m biased.
On window snapping: why on earth would you want to obscure your desktop with two huge panes? I usually have ‘small’ applications on my desktop ‘workspace’ (terminal, reminders, messages, finder). I always see ex-windows users cluttering their desktop workspace and not utilising more workspaces. It’s more efficient (in my opinion) to have multiple workspaces and avoid the tedious game of minimising and maximising dozens of windows on the desktop. I get that it’s what you’re used to, since this behaviour is enforced on windows, but do give the macOS way a shot. Whenever I’m on windows I feel hampered by the lack of virtual workspaces.
I think some of the idiosyncrasies are worth bearing with in macOS. It’s worth it even for the consistency of the design across the OS. It seems trite, but I like that everything speaks the same design language. It feels coherent. I’m never jarred as I am on windows 10, when I open the advance control panel and find that it’s from 1999.
> Whenever I’m on windows I feel hampered by the lack of virtual workspaces.
Windows has virtual desktops. Press Win+Tab. I find having many windows on the same desktop is much more useful than lots of desktops in practice, and it's what I do in Windows and Linux. I use virtual desktops to separate tasks, each of which usually involves many windows, some maximised or snapped to a side.
Obscuring the desktop itself is basically what it's for IMHO. I never ever see my desktop background, as there's no point - it has no purpose or use to me.
> On window snapping: why on earth would you want to obscure your desktop with two huge panes?
I use Spectacle do this _all the time_. I use an external monitor with my laptop, and put IntelliJ on the left half, and my terminal on the right half of the monitor every single time I plug it in. I'll do it with Chrome + the Dev tools, as well.
I even use it when I am just using the laptop's screen by itself. While my editor and terminal are _nearly always_ in a window sized to the full screen (again, with Spectacle), I will often use left/right half arrangements (or 2/3 and 1/3 arrangements) when doing something like a video call (2/3) where I want to also take notes (1/3). I find this substantially more convenient than the mac's builtin screen splitting behavior, since with Spectacle it's a single key chord to change between them.
(Edit: This is all in addition to using virtual desktops as well, so they are not a replacement.)
Spectacle (and, I suppose, Iterm2) is a Must Have app for me on Mac. It's possible I just haven't found the "mac way" of doing it yet, but this feels convenient and useful enough that it helps my workflow.
This is a good comment, especially the point about leaning into the idiosyncrasies of Mac, but I wanted to share my experience that follows OPs post, then your advice, and then I ended up back on i3.
I grew up a Windows kid, switched to Linux and then i3 (tiling), and use Windows 10 at work in a huge enterprise environment.
With a wide open mind (from my recent switch to running Linux and i3 full time on my personal machine) and a deep appreciation for the hardware of this gen of Macs, I got the new M1 Macbook Air last year. At first I really struggled, but committed to learning the trackpad gestures because seeing some of my friends wizz around the desktop in such a way that reminded me of i3, and things improved. Along the way, I reminded myself that I had to accept the mindset/ethos of the window manager, rather than think constantly of what's missing, if I was to ever an effective power user (re: your good point about using more workspaces instead of managing multiple Windows in a single space).
I still switched back, I missed tiling too much. And without me noticing, Windows 10 now has incredibly underrated multiple display, virtual desktop and tiling built into the system with their Meta+Tab, Meta+Num, and Meta+Arrow key tiling. Dynamic snapping and window borders is a huge part of this, in my opinion.
And this is Windows, not even my preferred system but the one that I switched away from and only use because my work requires. I'll spare you my evangelism of i3 (I enjoy config editing as a hobby and procrastination technique), but i3wm+xfce desktop bar is essentially the closest thing to my ideal system.
Doing it the Mac way never felt AS efficient, nor did it ever seen to align with how I wanted to do things, as much as I tried to change my mindset. This surprised me, and there is still elegance in the multiple workspaces and trackpad gestures that I can understand preferring as a full time system, but it was decidedly not for me. I do admit that tiling features are the primary shared features between these two systems, that might be primary bias. And that M1hardware is nuts.
I'm sharing this partially as a swansong for my personal experience with Mac and OSX, and also to share that I'm a human (user) with an interest and non-dogmatic enthusiasm for this domain (it's analogous to the sense perception layer in the mind, imo!) and as someone who is willing to invest time learning the techniques and mindset of a new system. For me, while MacOS is internally consistent and capable, I preferred Windows and especially i3.
This always floors me when I have to use a non-Linux computer. The difference between package management on Linux and other OSes is shocking. Dnf, Yum, Pacman are all so convenient and straightforward.
I can't understand why Windows and MacOS don't have anything official that fills this gap.
[+] [-] ChicagoBoy11|4 years ago|reply
Having gone through the same thing myself several years ago, the UI aspect of it is something that I'd be curious to see how it develops for the author. I think it is not uncommon for Windows folk to find the windowing experience on macs rather painful, at least at first. However, after a while, it sort of "made sense" to me, if that makes any sense at all. There are some clear UX philosophies that are very different, and the initial transition can only be pretty jarring, but I'm curious what the author would say about it after a month or two.
Also, fwiw, I think most power Mac users also marshal the use of some other programs to help along with some of that (or at least to tailor it more closely to what they want the experience to be). Rectangle is one of the first installs on any Mac I put my hands on... makes window management so much more pleasant!
[+] [-] rwc|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] goosedragons|4 years ago|reply
I also feel like Apple cripples mice, it's a very trackpad centered workflow and if you're not using one it suffers. Also they really need to have a separate mouse scroll toggle built in.
[+] [-] kristiandupont|4 years ago|reply
The fact that cmd-tabbing to a app will place all of its windows on top means that I might be forced to move a window with the mouse to see what's underneath it which I find infuriating. The fact that two windows belong to the same app is an arbitrary distinction to me. I group things by mental "projects", and I prefer to maintain my window z-order based on that.
I never liked using virtual desktops and I just downloaded altTab which I've read about in threads here, but it seems to flicker weirdly and it has already crached on me once within a 1/2 hour timespan so I don't foresee myself keeping it.
[+] [-] forbiddenvoid|4 years ago|reply
It's just as terrible as ever. I would not use an Apple product outside of work, despite some thousands of hours using one over the last several years. Everything about using a Mac feels patronizing and intended to make me work harder than I should to do the most simple tasks.
[+] [-] Sharlin|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EnKopVand|4 years ago|reply
On windows I need to install tools for things like snapping pictures because the default snipping tool isn’t quite good enough. I also hate window management, especially on multiple screen setups where you can’t move the mouse from one screen to another if the resolutions are different (4k screens and an open laptop as an example). Mean while a lot of the things the author complain about are things I find decent on a Mac. The fact that you can easily auto-size windows so that you have 1 full screen, 2 half screen apps, and x csized windows on 3 different window spaces is just awesome.
The biggest issue is that even after 7 years I still have no idea how many little tricks I still don’t know about Mac OS because it never tells you how to use it and pressing shift command (or maybe it’s option) 4 to snap a screenshot isn’t exactly intuitive.
[+] [-] divbzero|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whatever_dude|4 years ago|reply
I get that some people prefer that, but I've been on macOS daily for 10+ years and still can't find the top level OS paradigms (window switching, over reliance on mouse/extremely poor keyboard support, lack of proper "maximized" windows) anything but painful.
It might be that growing up with windows ingrained certain gestures on my mind that I can't let go, but I feel like I've decidedly given it a shot. And I still hate it.
Yes, there are workarounds, but they're workarounds that require third party applications. I expected more from the OS.
[+] [-] emilecantin|4 years ago|reply
The way to use MacOS is to use the Spaces to group windows by theme / task. For example, I have one space where I have Slack, Skype, Teams, Discord, Mail and Outlook currently open. Another one has my main "browsing" Chrome window. Another one has my iTerm (the only fullscreen app). And the last "permanent" one has my "debugging" Chrome window. They're always in the same order (none of that "reorder automatically" nonsense), so I can switch tasks using the mouse (2-finger swipe left/right on the Magic Mouse), trackpad (3-finger swipe) or keyboard (ctrl-left/right). Inside a Space, I switch between windows using Exposé (swipe on trackpad, double-tap on mouse or F3 on keyboard).
I've been using macOS both in my personal & professional life like this since Leopard and I think it works pretty well.
[+] [-] plutonorm|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swiftcoder|4 years ago|reply
I always feel like Apple optimises UX very heavily for laptops (small screens, fullscreen-first makes a lot of sense), where Microsoft optimises more for desktops (large screens, multiple apps sharing the screen makes more sense). I find windows really clumsy on small laptop screens, even though it works great on my desktop :/
[+] [-] prajwalshetty|4 years ago|reply
When I use Windows occasionally, I miss the command+` to switch between windows of the apps, especially when they are far separated out in the Alt+Tab preview.
[+] [-] hiepph|4 years ago|reply
[1] http://hammerspoon.org/
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nine_k|4 years ago|reply
When using macOS, I badly miss window management options available on Linux. (And don't get me started regarding font rendering.)
[+] [-] geoffmanning|4 years ago|reply
I'm a month in now and i have to say that attitude is everything when it comes to learning something new, and, especially when you know something "kind of like this", you have to be very careful not to let your unmet expectations of something similar sour the experience.
When i started with Windows as a kid i didn't have a "choice" in the matter, it's just what we had, and i had to learn all those tricks and tips along the way to improve my user experience. If i used that to temper the curve of getting a good user experience from my Mac i'd have to say that Mac got it closer to the target by a magnitude.
So, when you don't get the experience you need, instead of defaulting to "this is dumb", ask yourself why they did it this way, and why you expect it that way, and then if you still want it that way after considering a new perspective, chances are there's an app for that.
Stay curious, my friends.
[+] [-] ysleepy|4 years ago|reply
* Put the Dock left or right, vertical space is precious (trust me, do it for a week and then decide)
* Setup Hot-Corners (Settings -> Mission Control -> Hot Corners)
This makes window management a lot better.* Maximise Windows by double clicking the Window title bar.
* Disable auto-{correction, capitalize, etc}, smart-quotes under Keyboard settings (if you want)
* Learn about the screenshot shortcuts CMD+shift+{3,4}, 3: full screen, 4: select area or switch to window select with hitting space bar once.
* Learn about CMD+space for launching apps
* Set Key-Repeat to fast and shorten the delay
* Disable spotlight for everything except what you want to use it for.
* Enable File-Vault
* Disable "Wake for Network Access" under Energy
* Enable the ssh server under Sharing "Remote Login" (If you want)
* Disable the visual/audible bell in the Terminal profile.
* Install MacPorts/Homebew
And one thing to internalize is that Apple is a little authoritarian about some UX aspects.
For example the snapping and window thing... Apple has a thing with continuos freedom opposed to the discretisation one is used to. I've come around to that view as well actually, free your mind, nature is not a stepped slider.
Cool Utilities:
MenuMeters with a CPU usage graph. this allows you to see if something is killing your battery.
MonitorControl (on github) to set brightness of external monitors.
LittleSnitch ($$) for fellow paranoid control freaks
IINA (github) best video player
UTM for VMs (free on github) paid options are good too
MacPass for KeePass databases
Hope it helps.
[+] [-] teilo|4 years ago|reply
Most of these "rants" really just amount to: "this different OS doesn't work exactly the same way as the OS I am used to." That's why 3rd party utilities exist to give you the functionality you wish to have. That formula cuts both ways.
[+] [-] traceroute66|4 years ago|reply
The author makes a big deal that you have to do Command+Tab to switch applications, and then Command+` to cycle between windows in that application. Well, frankly I think thats the better way, I'll give you an example:
Let's say (as you do) you have a dozen browser windows open (maybe in more than one browser) ... do you REALLY want to sit there hitting Command+Tab dozens of times ? No. Its quicker to switch to the desired app and then cycle within the app. That way you don't cycle through the browser when you don't need to.
Finally there are some, frankly bizarre, comments in the blog post, such as:
> However, that keyboard doesn’t have the Option (⌥) or Command (⌘) keys like on my Macbook.
Well, yeah, its not Apple's problem if you choose to use a PC keyboard with your Mac. Most people would either use the built-in Mac keyboard or buy an external one (third-party Mac keyboards are available from the usual suspects if you don't fancy an Apple one).
I gave up reading the blog post around that point ("The Undecided" header to be precise).
[+] [-] foobarian|4 years ago|reply
I'll see your use case and raise you a:
Let's say you now have two dozens of browser windows open on two desktops. And you also have a dozen terminal windows open also across two desktops. You've just googled something on desktop 1, and trying it out in terminal 1, now you get a beep from Slack on desktop 2, which is not maximized because you were communicating something from your workspace there so it was needed on the right half of the screen. You read the message, you alt-Tab back to the terminal... and end up in a different terminal on the current workspace.
It feels like this was done to work around the fact that windows are grouped by application in MacOS, so that Alt-Tab between a browser and terminal always stayed on the same workspace.
[+] [-] scns|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] deltarholamda|4 years ago|reply
Neither do I care that much for snapping. What I really prefer is for my windows to be where I left them, and MacOS is pretty good about keeping them that way.
[+] [-] lou1306|4 years ago|reply
It may be useful for users of large external monitors, allowing to make better use of the screen real estate. Then again, Macos lacks per-application menu bars, which means you cannot do a lot of tasks without focusing the app first, so IMHO lack of snapping/advanced windows management is not as big as a deal as it would be under Windows.
[+] [-] bombcar|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdougherty|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] guywhocodes|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] etempleton|4 years ago|reply
At the same time, I think Apple is currently doing some of their best most sensible hardware design and their quality control has only gotten better.
Despite my misgivings about Mac OS I still choose a Mac for work because I need a laptop and I want a quality machine, but I really hope Apple take a long hard look at MacOS and devotes some resources to pushing desktop operating systems forward again.
[+] [-] fomine3|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mastazi|4 years ago|reply
in MacOS there is no unified way to get to the beginning or end of a line. In Linux and Windows this is done with the Home and End keys. In Mac, there are some shortcuts but they are not universal, what works in terminal may not work in a browser textarea and so on. Some programs interpret the same shortcut as "go to the very end of the text (as in a PgDown key) but that same shortcut, in another program, might go to the end of the line (like the End key).
Please let me know if I'm missing something! Every time I make a web search about this topic, I end up in various pages like this one[1] with shortcuts that don't work for me for the reasons explained above.
EDIT: I found out that there are some Mac keyboards with the Home and End keys. So it seems that this is not an OS issue but, I guess, a MacBook issue (I've only ever used MacBooks and always without external keyboard).
[1] https://djst.org/topic/what-is-the-end-key-on-a-mac/
[+] [-] pschastain|4 years ago|reply
The UI is inconsistent, esp. wrt the menu bar. Keyboard shortcuts are inconsistent across different apps. macOS remembers window positions, GNOME doesn't. macOS can use different backgrounds for different monitors, GNOME can't. The GNOME Panel is a poor substitute for the macOS Dock (which itself is severely limited) i.e. doesn't offer any visual cue that an app is launching. I could go on.
OSes are a tool. Use what works best for you.
[+] [-] dfxm12|4 years ago|reply
Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators.
Is this still really the case? Most of what I hear nowadays is Apple's reputation is that their products are luxury status symbols rather than a tool for creative types, outside of maybe the camera on the iPhone. 10 years ago, you might have seen the coffee shop filled with macbooks, but that's not the case today. What artist is going to afford a $1900 monitor that can only be height adjusted with a $400 upgrade?
[+] [-] uuyi|4 years ago|reply
When you’re used to something else the change hurts. I have found it far better to not bring your mental baggage with you and meet the new platform as its level rather than try and make it the same as the old one.
I have gone MOS > RiscOS > WinNT -> Solaris -> Linux -> Win7 -> macOS and it hurt every time.
[+] [-] kemayo|4 years ago|reply
I'll explain: if you have a lot of windows open, I think it's nice to silo them. When I have ten Firefox windows and six Sublime windows and three iTerm windows, and a few other random applications, it's generally easier to go first to the app I want and then find the window inside it, rather than always having to shuffle through 19 different windows at the top-level.
This is probably a matter of personal preference and habit, and you can make a good case for either behavior. I just don't think macOS' behavior is obviously worse... only different.
[+] [-] macrael|4 years ago|reply
I've actually started braking more websites out into their own fluid.app so that I can cmd-tab to them specifically. Jira, Github, Gmail (well, when I used gmail) all get their own app so I don't have to go hunting for that single tab in my browser, making my browser window management that much easier.
If you're interested in that, I pair fluid.app with choosy so that links open in the correct fluid browser.
[+] [-] K7PJP|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] urbandw311er|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flenserboy|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moonchrome|4 years ago|reply
With that said I would say MacOS grows on you. On my 34 inch screen using snapping is just not practical - I just move windows around and have plenty of visual space and can quickly move my head to move attention to a different window, find other windows through overlaps - I prefer this to tabbing - and this is when working on my Windows desktop.
Returning to Windows after not regularly using it for last 3 years it's sad to see that the UI has regressed with Windows 11. For example windows had system calendar app that would connect to the system calendar in the bottom right and show event previews for the day and you could click on the day and get day summaries, sort of like Itsycal but built in. They removed this in Windows 11.
I think MacOS is strictly better for most of my use cases :
- The new right click UI is clunky and obviously touch optimized, most of the OS is going this way and it's shit for desktop usability
- Dark mode support is hit-and-miss, much better in MacOS
- PowerToys Run doesn't work reliably at all compared to Mac CMD + Space which works without a hiccup
- chocolatey is garbage compared to homebrew
Where Windows beats MacOS for me :
- Docker performance is much much better
- WSL/linux integration is fairly nice (using OpenSuSe rolling release to get relevant software, Ubuntu LTS they provide is ancient)
[+] [-] nerdjon|4 years ago|reply
I constantly find myself frustrated by Windows because I am just used to how Mac operates. I have been using it as my primary compute device since Lion.
However one of the things that I find interesting from the Window management point that I don't see mentioned, touchpad gestures. I cannot use Mac without gestures, even when I am using my laptop as a desktop I use the Magic Trackpad. The few times I have tried to use a mouse... it just feels wrong. I would highly recommend taking a look at this and looking at the window management from this prospective. Because of these gestures I never think I need to snap things because switching windows is a quick swipe and and a click. Then all the other gestures, hot corners, etc.
That being said, I find the same issue with my partner. He has never used a Mac (has an iPhone though) but sometimes he needs to do something quick so grabs my laptop. It is fascinating watching him struggle with the trackpad and other basics that to me I don't even think about anymore.
[+] [-] CSMastermind|4 years ago|reply
I'll say that I've used Windows and macOS both personally and professionally for two decades now (longer for Windows). I'd consider myself a power user in both OSes, I know the keyboard shortcuts, I know the OS settings somewhat in depth, and I've used a lot of the common tools to extend each OS.
My experience is that Windows has far better UX for pretty most end users.
I have 4 monitors connected to my Windows computer. I just plugged them in and it worked. I've burned hours fighting with external monitors on macOS. Is it even possible to have 4 external monitors? Actually you can extend this to all sorts of peripherals.
Windows explorer feels way more productive than finder. It still bothers me that I can't cut and paste folders by default.
I revert to the command line way more on macOS than I do on Windows. That's a skill that your average user isn't going to have.
I found my old Oregon Trail 3 CD two months ago and decided to play it. I had to navigate a few context menus but this 1997 game booted right up on Windows, how many hoops do you think I'd have to jump through to run a Mac OS 8 application on my MacBook Pro?
And there's a bunch of other examples I could give. There's a lot of reasons people like Apple products and if the interface works for you, great! But I don't think it's fair to dismiss critiques as ignorance of lack of ability.
[+] [-] lbrito|4 years ago|reply
Gosh, this is exactly how I felt in a similar situation. Really hit the nail on the head.
I've used Linux for a long time, and for a while I was kindly forced to use a Mac (got a Linux laptop last week). It was a painful experience that took a heavy toll on my productivity.
My impression is that Mac has so many idiossincrasies that fans just assume are "intuitive" while they're really not - they've just been used to it for a long time. Personally I hated, hated the usability. Can't stress it enough, it absolutely sucked. Never again!
Also the benefits compared to non-Macs are diminishing over time. You can get great hardware and battery life with system76 for instance.
[+] [-] xisthesqrtof9|4 years ago|reply
Inspired by Mitchell Hashimoto's VMWare setup[0]. I setup my own computer in such a way, I now have the best of both worlds. Developing on a linux machine, where I can control everything if I wanted (down to the OS) and the ease of Notes/iMessages whenever I need it.
Window management is a pita because of internal APIs and the fact that Apple doesn't cater to people that actually care about these tools. Check out Yabai[1] which btw requires you to disable SIP (System Integrity Protection) if you want to use its full potential.
Instead you can run NixOS and choose your favourite window/tiling manager (i3).
Package manager: I still run Nix but I am not that happy with it. Either I need to spend some more time or look for an alternative. One of the problems is the ability to easily pin older versions.
[0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDMLoWz76U&t=359s&ab_channe... [1] - https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai
[+] [-] kevingadd|4 years ago|reply
Likewise, I doubt the OP or people like them would get away with disabling System Integrity Protection or loading untrusted kernel modules.
[+] [-] Xevi|4 years ago|reply
I switched to a Mac Mini M1 in December and it has been a complete pain in the ass. First of all, to even be able to use it I had to switch out my monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers because Apple didn't like them. And then I had to buy an extra dock to get more ports. On top of that I've also had to install a bunch of third party software to get basic functionality like window snapping (Moom), and a functioning scroll wheel and the ability to turn off mouse acceleration (SteerMouse). And don't get me started on the absolute bonkers ways you toggle between applications, or the fact that you need to click TWICE on a window when switching between windows, if you want to type something in it. My desk is absolutely cluttered with application windows, because minimizing them apparently makes Mac treat them as if you never want to see them again, which messes with my voice control software. Oh, and why is there no delete button? And why do I need to be so precise when clicking on desktop icons, instead of just having a bounding box around them? Who thought that was a good idea? And while we're on desktop icons, why on earth aren't they sorted and fixed to a grid by default? Does anyone like unorganized items in folders?? Another thing that annoys me is pop-up windows with no freaking option to close them other than clicking "done" or whatever. What if I don't want to apply any of the changes I've made? Why can't I just cancel?? I could go on and on about UI inconsistencies and various bugs I've encountered. Needless to say I'm switching back to Windows (which isn't without its own problems) next time I'm buying a computer.
This mac has made my RSI go haywire. I've tried to do everything the "Apple way", but it's just always so clunky and slow compared to Windows.
[+] [-] joeman1000|4 years ago|reply
On window snapping: why on earth would you want to obscure your desktop with two huge panes? I usually have ‘small’ applications on my desktop ‘workspace’ (terminal, reminders, messages, finder). I always see ex-windows users cluttering their desktop workspace and not utilising more workspaces. It’s more efficient (in my opinion) to have multiple workspaces and avoid the tedious game of minimising and maximising dozens of windows on the desktop. I get that it’s what you’re used to, since this behaviour is enforced on windows, but do give the macOS way a shot. Whenever I’m on windows I feel hampered by the lack of virtual workspaces.
I think some of the idiosyncrasies are worth bearing with in macOS. It’s worth it even for the consistency of the design across the OS. It seems trite, but I like that everything speaks the same design language. It feels coherent. I’m never jarred as I am on windows 10, when I open the advance control panel and find that it’s from 1999.
[+] [-] mkl|4 years ago|reply
Windows has virtual desktops. Press Win+Tab. I find having many windows on the same desktop is much more useful than lots of desktops in practice, and it's what I do in Windows and Linux. I use virtual desktops to separate tasks, each of which usually involves many windows, some maximised or snapped to a side.
Obscuring the desktop itself is basically what it's for IMHO. I never ever see my desktop background, as there's no point - it has no purpose or use to me.
[+] [-] gknoy|4 years ago|reply
I use Spectacle do this _all the time_. I use an external monitor with my laptop, and put IntelliJ on the left half, and my terminal on the right half of the monitor every single time I plug it in. I'll do it with Chrome + the Dev tools, as well.
I even use it when I am just using the laptop's screen by itself. While my editor and terminal are _nearly always_ in a window sized to the full screen (again, with Spectacle), I will often use left/right half arrangements (or 2/3 and 1/3 arrangements) when doing something like a video call (2/3) where I want to also take notes (1/3). I find this substantially more convenient than the mac's builtin screen splitting behavior, since with Spectacle it's a single key chord to change between them.
(Edit: This is all in addition to using virtual desktops as well, so they are not a replacement.)
Spectacle (and, I suppose, Iterm2) is a Must Have app for me on Mac. It's possible I just haven't found the "mac way" of doing it yet, but this feels convenient and useful enough that it helps my workflow.
[+] [-] DiggyJohnson|4 years ago|reply
I grew up a Windows kid, switched to Linux and then i3 (tiling), and use Windows 10 at work in a huge enterprise environment.
With a wide open mind (from my recent switch to running Linux and i3 full time on my personal machine) and a deep appreciation for the hardware of this gen of Macs, I got the new M1 Macbook Air last year. At first I really struggled, but committed to learning the trackpad gestures because seeing some of my friends wizz around the desktop in such a way that reminded me of i3, and things improved. Along the way, I reminded myself that I had to accept the mindset/ethos of the window manager, rather than think constantly of what's missing, if I was to ever an effective power user (re: your good point about using more workspaces instead of managing multiple Windows in a single space).
I still switched back, I missed tiling too much. And without me noticing, Windows 10 now has incredibly underrated multiple display, virtual desktop and tiling built into the system with their Meta+Tab, Meta+Num, and Meta+Arrow key tiling. Dynamic snapping and window borders is a huge part of this, in my opinion.
And this is Windows, not even my preferred system but the one that I switched away from and only use because my work requires. I'll spare you my evangelism of i3 (I enjoy config editing as a hobby and procrastination technique), but i3wm+xfce desktop bar is essentially the closest thing to my ideal system.
Doing it the Mac way never felt AS efficient, nor did it ever seen to align with how I wanted to do things, as much as I tried to change my mindset. This surprised me, and there is still elegance in the multiple workspaces and trackpad gestures that I can understand preferring as a full time system, but it was decidedly not for me. I do admit that tiling features are the primary shared features between these two systems, that might be primary bias. And that M1hardware is nuts.
I'm sharing this partially as a swansong for my personal experience with Mac and OSX, and also to share that I'm a human (user) with an interest and non-dogmatic enthusiasm for this domain (it's analogous to the sense perception layer in the mind, imo!) and as someone who is willing to invest time learning the techniques and mindset of a new system. For me, while MacOS is internally consistent and capable, I preferred Windows and especially i3.
[+] [-] spicyusername|4 years ago|reply
This always floors me when I have to use a non-Linux computer. The difference between package management on Linux and other OSes is shocking. Dnf, Yum, Pacman are all so convenient and straightforward.
I can't understand why Windows and MacOS don't have anything official that fills this gap.