Ironic — I'm reading this in my Istanbul airbnb, having left Russia in total emergency just month and a half ago, living out of a single suitcase, without any idea of where I'm going to live. And just before I opened this blog post, I was thinking about how comfortable and surprisingly modern Turkey appears to be, and if I, like a lot of my friends, should later apply for a citizen's permit here.
Istanbul is a beautiful city. It's full of colors, tastes, contrasts, different experiences. But it takes time to feel like you belong somewhere. With this belonging, we start to become much more critical. You get more concerned and more affected by day-to-day aspects of life that you don't pay much attention at first (or you don't even have to pay attention to those at first).
Enjoy Istanbul! It's a beautiful time of the year, too. I wish you best of luck in your future adventures.
I'm german and hate every thing in Germany. I love to live in Portugal. Lot of Portuguese people that I know don't understand it. Lot of germans that I know understand it pretty well ;)
I was living in Istanbul before I moved to Germany. You will, too, soon start noticing the serious problems I at some point thought are not solvable any time soon. Some of them are not solvable AT ALL. Like the earthquake risk that scientists have been warning about since years. An earthquake as strong as 7.0 in a city of over 15 million people with almost no preparation. That's a nightmare.
Of the 6 reasons to leave I would suggest two of them are completely valid, career and economic hardship.
The other 4 are grass being greener.
Unknown future, I would suggest Germany has the most unknown future out of any country right now.
Country leadership, reads like a lot of countries, even a cynical US take.
Too much politics, literally politics.
Architecture, this one is interesting. If you're comparing a postcard or even tourist perspective to a city that you've grown up and lived in your whole life, you will be able to see warts and all what you know but nothing from the city you're comparing it to.
I've had the privilege now of living in a bunch of different cities for enough time to get to know them more than just as a tourist. I would suggest 2 months of time at a minimum to get the vibe, 4-6 to actually know a place and then the more subtle details continue to be noticed / learned of from then on.
A concrete example of something you won't understand about a city until you've lived there is the postal service / how easy it is to recieve things. I had a drivers license circumnavigate the globe after it was returned to sender thanks to the efficency of the Spanish postal service and their ridiculous Franco era hand cart delivery.
The author thinks Turkey may have a civil war. Do you really think that Germany is so "unknown" that it may have a war?
Most corruption indexes rank Turkey as being pretty damn corrupt, which would seem to be pretty well confirmed by having had its government and judiciary turned into the whipping boys of an all-powerful dictator. Do you see that in Germany's future? Because... why? The prospect of high energy prices for a few years?
Expats like to hang out in countries like Thailand, ruled by a military junta, and opine that it's all fine and dandy, what could possibly be better!? It's remarkable, really.
I've also left and your reasoning is more or less the same as mine. For me it's been more than a decade, and Germany is filled with opportunities. I wish you all the best, bol şans, viel Spaß.
That was also the general desire among many of my friends and colleagues. So far I'm happy with the life in Germany and Europe. Thank you for the good wishes!
As a Turkish engineer who left Turkey 3.5 years ago, I wish you good luck! You will feel alone, confused and behind at the beginning but later on you will adopt European life style and you will realize there is a huge world out there to not belong a single country. You made a great choose, enjoy it!
Thank you for the good wishes! Tbh didn't feel much loneliness since I know few people here in Germany and also nearby countries. Getting adapted to a new country is a sweet experience. Enjoying it so far.
Other than leaving Turkey part, I am fascinated by Ahmet's background. He says he has graduated from semi-religious high school (IHL?) and did not attend university. The fact that he self-taught coding and English is amazing to me and not very common. Good job and best luck with your life.
Good luck. My family emigrated to US from Turkey in the 90s. Back then, the inflation was over a hundred percent. It costs millions of liras to buy a dollar. Now the history is repeating itself. The value of lira is tanking and inflation is running amuck. The people governing the country have changed, but the systemic rot is still there.
The lira was devalued 1000000:1 in the 90s. So if a dollar was 1000000 lira back then that is actually a similar figure as stated in the article of 1.8 lira for the dollar.
I have a 1000000 lira note right here that a friend gave me around the year 2000. I kept it because I liked the big number on it. It looks special. Even then he mentioned that it was only about a dollar or two
I think the reason so many surprising distance comparisons in Europe involve Germany is that most people have in their heads that Germany's farther West than it is. And that it doesn't stretch as far East as it does. Maybe it's a leftover from Cold War-era maps.
How fair is that though? I would imagine that a majority of individuals in many countries around the world would like to like in the US, China, Japan, or Europe if they could. Is 73% markedly higher than we would see in India, Iran, Pakistan, or Nigeria?
That's an unfortunate reality for the country, and its future. I believe many of them at some point would like to return in the case that the current political and social environment were to get better. It is what it is now.
This really resonates with me. I made a similar move to Germany 4 years ago from a different 3rd world country.
I find it quite sad how so many capable people leave their motherland because of lack of opportunities. The rich countries keep getting the best people from countries worse off, it seems like a vicious cycle.
No reason to feel sad. Simply move back to your own country and start fixing problems. Your country needs you. Germans probably feel sad too about the fact that their country is turned into a generic settlement area for economic opportunists.
I wonder why he did not consider working remotely. Getting a low end European or even American developer salary while living in Turkey should be pretty kushy. You can also live in the mediterranean away from that poorly built mass housing he described.
Until recently I was living in Russia, and I'm happy to have moved just now despite having to pay $12,000 more in taxes.
When I moved to Russia a few years ago, I was delighted to pay less tax, and dismissed the bad political situation as something that doesn't matter and just a way to save more money before moving somewhere else eventually (the famous "some time later").
Well, now that I've had to move because the said "political situation" has escalated quite rapidly, I can say that having to pay more is a good trade-off [in my eyes] for safety and sanity.
How did you find an apartment in Munich? My girlfriend is in a very similar situation as you. Also, how long did you wait between the visa appointment at the embassy and you getting the visa? hoşgeldiniz to Germany!
Thank you! I had known a friend who helped me with apartments. Generally it is quite difficult to find an apartment that has a good price/quality ratio. As for the visa, I got it by post in 7-8 days after the appointment.
I could change Turkey to Algeria and this would read like something written by an Algerian after moving to Turkey. My point is, the grass is always greener on the other side.
I get your point. There is always someone who has it worse than me. Point being that, it doesn't make sense for a human to stop looking for a better life.
I too am mostly brown. Love this way of putting it for some reason.
For so long I wanted Europe to encourage Turkey to join the EU and I feel very sad about how negatively it all turned out.
While we have responded somewhat coherently to the war on Ukraine, I feel like this is a temporary moment of clarity. In other respects I feel like our drive to look outwards and take risks is very low.
What made you make the decision to move to a country ruled by a autocratic far right politician? You don’t seem to touch upon that in the link provided
Do you get paid in USD/euro, and are thus shielded from currency risk?
Some time ago I found that Antalya had low rents and thought it would be nice to live by the beach for cheap. But some things I heard bothered me, like smoking and poor air quality in general. The political stuff kind of makes me uncomfortable but not sure if that's rational.
Well, you are an outlier. Living in US for more than 20 years, I rarely see folks going back especially last couple of years. The ones I know who go back either have rich families or are politically connected. I understand that is might not be the case for you.
> Then we end up with corruption. The party members milked us so much, yet the milk hasn’t run out yet. This is how rich Turkey is. So rich, with all the stealing, it’s still standing.
This statement is casually thrown around generally by those who find themselves belonging to the other side (politically speaking). But where is the evidence?
I’ve visited verifiably — as in the names of the leaders appear in all those leaks over the years — corrupt countries. The corruption shows in the disparities in societies. For example, access to tap water, heating, good roads, and other infrastructural types. For example, accessibility of education. For example, the purchasing power of the averaging citizen as measured in concrete terms (eg housing, food, etc) not in dollars.
In the corrupt countries the infrastructure is generally terrible. The citizens can barely afford food. There are no universities. In turkey it seems like non of this holds.
So, how is Erdogan corrupt? Is it just because OP is in dogmatic opposition to his ideals? IIRC the genesis of Erdogans political career is his management of Istanbul as mayor to improve the quality of life of all of its citizens. I believe that counts for something in a sense that he deserves the benefit of the doubt and the burden is on the accusers to show concrete evidence of corruption. Something like how Kushner received billions from the Saudis after the end of Trumps term.
The Chinese call this "running" (there is a Chinese character that is worded the same as run in pinyin and is used to term as escaping/leaving from China), something that has been increasing with the iron fist of the CCP coming crashing down a lot more often, especially what has happened with Shanghai.
Is there a positive/negative connotation with it? In English to "escape from a situation", the implication is that the situation was bad and you are saving yourself from it. But if you "run from a situation", it generally implies something like lack of courage.
[+] [-] golergka|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yawz|3 years ago|reply
Enjoy Istanbul! It's a beautiful time of the year, too. I wish you best of luck in your future adventures.
[+] [-] pelasaco|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _qvu2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aunty_helen|3 years ago|reply
The other 4 are grass being greener.
Unknown future, I would suggest Germany has the most unknown future out of any country right now.
Country leadership, reads like a lot of countries, even a cynical US take.
Too much politics, literally politics.
Architecture, this one is interesting. If you're comparing a postcard or even tourist perspective to a city that you've grown up and lived in your whole life, you will be able to see warts and all what you know but nothing from the city you're comparing it to.
I've had the privilege now of living in a bunch of different cities for enough time to get to know them more than just as a tourist. I would suggest 2 months of time at a minimum to get the vibe, 4-6 to actually know a place and then the more subtle details continue to be noticed / learned of from then on.
A concrete example of something you won't understand about a city until you've lived there is the postal service / how easy it is to recieve things. I had a drivers license circumnavigate the globe after it was returned to sender thanks to the efficency of the Spanish postal service and their ridiculous Franco era hand cart delivery.
[+] [-] telchior|3 years ago|reply
Most corruption indexes rank Turkey as being pretty damn corrupt, which would seem to be pretty well confirmed by having had its government and judiciary turned into the whipping boys of an all-powerful dictator. Do you see that in Germany's future? Because... why? The prospect of high energy prices for a few years?
Expats like to hang out in countries like Thailand, ruled by a military junta, and opine that it's all fine and dandy, what could possibly be better!? It's remarkable, really.
[+] [-] spacechild1|3 years ago|reply
What? Care to elaborate?
[+] [-] slimebart|3 years ago|reply
That alone might indicate a world of difference to other political systems.
[+] [-] egeozcan|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _qvu2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SenpaiHurricane|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _qvu2|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] picardo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dark-star|3 years ago|reply
I have a 1000000 lira note right here that a friend gave me around the year 2000. I kept it because I liked the big number on it. It looks special. Even then he mentioned that it was only about a dollar or two
[+] [-] bombcar|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brimble|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] sedatk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimbob45|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _qvu2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaeruct|3 years ago|reply
I find it quite sad how so many capable people leave their motherland because of lack of opportunities. The rich countries keep getting the best people from countries worse off, it seems like a vicious cycle.
[+] [-] sprash|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thriftwy|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jhugo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hurflmurfl|3 years ago|reply
When I moved to Russia a few years ago, I was delighted to pay less tax, and dismissed the bad political situation as something that doesn't matter and just a way to save more money before moving somewhere else eventually (the famous "some time later").
Well, now that I've had to move because the said "political situation" has escalated quite rapidly, I can say that having to pay more is a good trade-off [in my eyes] for safety and sanity.
[+] [-] notch656a|3 years ago|reply
That may answer your question why they may not be excited to stay in Turkey.
[+] [-] _gfwu|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] password4321|3 years ago|reply
> My niche is "make knowledge of Germany approachable to non-Germans".
[+] [-] _qvu2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MauroIksem|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _qvu2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scandox|3 years ago|reply
I too am mostly brown. Love this way of putting it for some reason.
For so long I wanted Europe to encourage Turkey to join the EU and I feel very sad about how negatively it all turned out.
While we have responded somewhat coherently to the war on Ukraine, I feel like this is a temporary moment of clarity. In other respects I feel like our drive to look outwards and take risks is very low.
[+] [-] farslan|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Saint_Genet|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cko|3 years ago|reply
Some time ago I found that Antalya had low rents and thought it would be nice to live by the beach for cheap. But some things I heard bothered me, like smoking and poor air quality in general. The political stuff kind of makes me uncomfortable but not sure if that's rational.
[+] [-] tradertef|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] artogahr|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 2wrist|3 years ago|reply
best of luck to you.
[+] [-] pacija|3 years ago|reply
Deutschland, Deutschland, alles ist vorbei!
:)
[+] [-] DSingularity|3 years ago|reply
This statement is casually thrown around generally by those who find themselves belonging to the other side (politically speaking). But where is the evidence?
I’ve visited verifiably — as in the names of the leaders appear in all those leaks over the years — corrupt countries. The corruption shows in the disparities in societies. For example, access to tap water, heating, good roads, and other infrastructural types. For example, accessibility of education. For example, the purchasing power of the averaging citizen as measured in concrete terms (eg housing, food, etc) not in dollars.
In the corrupt countries the infrastructure is generally terrible. The citizens can barely afford food. There are no universities. In turkey it seems like non of this holds.
So, how is Erdogan corrupt? Is it just because OP is in dogmatic opposition to his ideals? IIRC the genesis of Erdogans political career is his management of Istanbul as mayor to improve the quality of life of all of its citizens. I believe that counts for something in a sense that he deserves the benefit of the doubt and the burden is on the accusers to show concrete evidence of corruption. Something like how Kushner received billions from the Saudis after the end of Trumps term.
[+] [-] wussboy|3 years ago|reply
"Corrupt countries often have poor services. Turkey does not have poor services, therefor it is not corrupt."
But surely that's incorrect.
[+] [-] nnoitra|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forkLding|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oh_sigh|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thelight1|3 years ago|reply
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