Doesn't worry me a bit. I'd already be looking at 2 years in prison just for being gay. But then, there's a whole bunch of the world that I wouldn't travel to.
I lived in the UAE for 3 years, and think the reality is more complicated than the article's "every visitor to the UAE should be terrified" makes it out to be.
Is the UAE a dictatorship? Absolutely - the newspaper is censored, and publicly challenging or speaking ill of the government is a Bad Idea that everyone knows not to do.
Is it the autocratic dystopia that the article makes it out to be? Also no; I didn't have any problems during my time there, nor did any friends that I know of (including three gay friends). The UAE is basically caught between both traditional Muslim and Western democratic influences, and it's not strictly one or the other. As long as you're not challenging the government or doing anything Muslims would consider bad taste (e.g. public PDA), you're generally left alone.
Which meant I was surprised to learn about the jailing on account of a joke about the name "Nahyan", until I saw, "Another joke Dr. Kharrat tweeted urged the Iran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen to attack Dubai’s Burj Khalifa".
Iran and the UAE _really_ don't like each other, and the UAE maintains a strong security state at least in part because of it. Urging a Houthi attack on the Burj Khalifa would be taken very seriously, and I'd surmise 1) he ended up on a watchlist when he first made it and 2) the UAE is now using him as political pressure on Lebanon.
To be clear, I'm not at all condoning the UAE's actions here as they don't align with my personal values. That said, I'm not surprised: the UAE takes perceived threats to the state very seriously and doesn't claim to allow free speech, so Kharrat was doing a (from an Emirati perspective) Very Bad Thing that most visitors to the UAE aren't likely to.
It was the location of the movie "Sex and the City 2". The UAE has put a huge effort into internationally branding themselves as a luxury tourism destination. I imagine there are loads of visitors who have no idea what the laws or legal system are like.
UAE is a fast growing international hub. Nobody is terrified. No more than people are terrified of traveling to germany because tourists get arrested for silly nonsense like a nazi salute or thailand because tourists get arrested insulting the royals or indonesia because tourists get arrested for drugs.
Not saying I agree with anyone getting arrested for silly nonsense. But for 99% of the travelers, it doesn't matter.
The fact it gets so much media coverage suggests its rarity. The odds of being detained in uae for social media posts is very low. The UAE gets tons of tourism. Your odds of being roughed up by police in America are higher.
There are soooo many UAE arrest stories. All the following are non-muslim non-citizen people, so they can't claim any kind of citizen or religious jurisdiction:
- A woman had a glass of wine while flying to UAE on UAE own airline!!!!
No, being a British citizen did not protect Matthew Hedges from being sentenced to life imprisonment on trumped up charges of espionage (he was eventually pardoned and released):
Western governments are as craven in appeasing the UAE and Saudi kleptocracies, because of their wealth, as poor countries like India or Pakistan that hire themselves as mercenaries for the emirs dirty work (like kidnapping princess Latina of Dubai). Calling them medieval would be a grave insult to the Dark Ages.
#1: The swedish iranian woman travelled without a valid passport and started filming the security guard when questioned about it.
#2: Sounds like at least one of them was pretty drunk. Men regularly walk hand in had in arab societies, even only holding the pinky! Given that its the same source as #1, I wont hold my breath.
#3 "a simple peck on the cheek" are you kidding me? ever been to Dubai?!
Seeing the headline my first immediate first guess was "oh he insulted the royal family". The first sentence confirms it. There are a number of places in the world that are like this. Qatar and Thailand spring immediately to mind.
It can even go beyond the ruling family. There was a US helicopter pilot (IIRC) who wrote something disparaging about his Qatari employer on Facebook while in the United States who was arrested upon his return to Qatar for it.
You have to be aware of the laws of whatever country you're going to and respect them. Ignore them at your own peril. You don't really get to complain it. Your choices are either to go and follow and law and not go. Ignorance is no excuse.
I'd actually be way more wary of taking a job in some of these countries. To leave Qatar, for eample, you need an exit visa. Basically, your employer has to consent. This system is ripe for abuse and has been abused many times. Employers use it to withhold wages in exchange for giving their permission. Personally, I would never work in such a place.
Yep this. Feels like folks in this thread expect the $general_western_ethos to apply everywhere, and then are outraged when it doesn't. That's not to say we can't disagree with the country's laws, but if you visit the country then it's their land, their laws. Anything else would be crazy on account of the inverse: someone from another country could do something very illegal in the US and insist it's fine on account of being allowed in their home country (marriage laws come to mind).
Time to make an app which would analyze your social media presence and for any country would show what laws you have violated and what punishment is waiting you where. Premium version will be showing that "cost" before you're to post something.
“The Houthis promise to bomb Burj Khalifa. My God, please let this information be true,”
Is the tweet in question. It is worth noting that we’re not sure yet that the tweet is true.
But lets assume it is:
Do people really think that this tweet should be enough to detain/arrest him?
People in the US and in Lebanon (most of the world too) make countless of posts vilifying and wishing politicians dead.
The guy is a Christian doctor from Lebanon visiting for tourism/work. He has no impact or connections on houthis.
I also promise there’s countless of Lebanese people with similar or worse tweets visiting UAE.
Putting my conspiracy hat on:
Elections are coming up in Lebanon, arresting this doctor will make major news in Lebanon.
This will illicit two types of reaction there, people will be cheering this person’s arrest or will be cheering for a more hardline stance and distancing against UAE.
There are parties that claim to have good connections to UAE royalty (more like serfs) who will use this to say that this wouldn’t happen under their rule.
Dictatorships over time become police states. In Lebanon there is a healthy history of political satire, thanks in part to the fact that there is no real government. The doctors mistake was thinking that any sort of "freedom" of speech he had in Lebanon would be protected. Unfortunately not the case.
If you live the sword, you'll die by the sword. So yes you should be terrified of the UAE but you shouldn't have any illusions about what this country is about.
Unfortunately, Lebanon is a complete basket case of a country. So many well educated Lebanese are forced to find work in Gulf countries with repressive regimes. They pay well to buy your silence.
There is huge danger when criminal prosecution is automated. A machine has no sense of proportion or tolerance. That is why we allow police officers, prosecuters and judges to drop cases or just cite people.
Not exactly sure how this doctor got arrested but if they automatically scan feeds on arrival and then process them by strict adherence to law, that is bad.
I shouldn't be terrified by the mistreatment of millions of South Asian laborers in these oppressive oil-gas countries, but I should be terrified because of this random dude!! No thanks, journal de Septentrion!
>Another joke Dr. Kharrat tweeted urged the Iran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen to attack Dubai’s Burj Khalifa, as reported by French newspaper L’Orient Le Jour.
I'm gonna be honest how can anyone actually think tweeting that is a good idea.
> “The talk about this tweet is fake news,” a source close to the gynecologist and an MP of the Free Patriotic Movement, to which Kharrat is allegedly close, told L’Orient-Le Jour on condition of anonymity.
> He claimed that this tweet appeared after Kharrat’s arrest, saying that it was not published on the doctor’s personal account, but on that of an UAE national
I wonder how someone who publicly joked about supporting ISIS or Al-Qaeda and hoping they strike the new WTC would be greeted if they arrived to the US.
I don't know about the US but in some parts of Europe I'd agree the result would be similar to what happened here:
>In 2013, a French mother was sentenced for “glorifying a crime” after she allowed her son, named Jihad, to go to school wearing a shirt that said “I am a bomb.”
There is a significant difference between snarky jabs at a regime and open support of groups who have in the past (and seek to again in the future) commit violent international terrorism.
If you openly support those kinds of groups, you absolutely SHOULD be stopped and interviewed/interrogated at the border. The 'humor' part has to be evaluated (e.g. if someone is always cracking weird jokes vs someone who suddenly pulls a Trumpian rant-one liner and tries to pass if off as ha-ha when it's really just the quiet part out loud).
[+] [-] klyrs|3 years ago|reply
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2021/03/23/cri...
[+] [-] rosndo|3 years ago|reply
According to US state department there have been “ no known reports of arrests or prosecutions for consensual same-sex conduct.” since at least 2015.
[+] [-] lostmsu|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] azth|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] fortran77|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mieubrisse|3 years ago|reply
Is the UAE a dictatorship? Absolutely - the newspaper is censored, and publicly challenging or speaking ill of the government is a Bad Idea that everyone knows not to do.
Is it the autocratic dystopia that the article makes it out to be? Also no; I didn't have any problems during my time there, nor did any friends that I know of (including three gay friends). The UAE is basically caught between both traditional Muslim and Western democratic influences, and it's not strictly one or the other. As long as you're not challenging the government or doing anything Muslims would consider bad taste (e.g. public PDA), you're generally left alone.
Which meant I was surprised to learn about the jailing on account of a joke about the name "Nahyan", until I saw, "Another joke Dr. Kharrat tweeted urged the Iran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen to attack Dubai’s Burj Khalifa".
Iran and the UAE _really_ don't like each other, and the UAE maintains a strong security state at least in part because of it. Urging a Houthi attack on the Burj Khalifa would be taken very seriously, and I'd surmise 1) he ended up on a watchlist when he first made it and 2) the UAE is now using him as political pressure on Lebanon.
To be clear, I'm not at all condoning the UAE's actions here as they don't align with my personal values. That said, I'm not surprised: the UAE takes perceived threats to the state very seriously and doesn't claim to allow free speech, so Kharrat was doing a (from an Emirati perspective) Very Bad Thing that most visitors to the UAE aren't likely to.
[+] [-] fanf2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foobarian|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dwater|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qiskit|3 years ago|reply
Not saying I agree with anyone getting arrested for silly nonsense. But for 99% of the travelers, it doesn't matter.
[+] [-] politelemon|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paulpauper|3 years ago|reply
Taleb has been hyping this story for weeks.
The fact it gets so much media coverage suggests its rarity. The odds of being detained in uae for social media posts is very low. The UAE gets tons of tourism. Your odds of being roughed up by police in America are higher.
[+] [-] 323|3 years ago|reply
- A woman had a glass of wine while flying to UAE on UAE own airline!!!!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/11/woman-arrest...
- A guy accidentally touches the hip of another guy in a club
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/22/briton-jailed-...
- A non-married couple kissing in a restaurant
https://abcnews.go.com/International/TheLaw/kissing-couple-f...
And on and on and on.
Typically, if you are the citizen of a powerful country (US, UK, EU, ...) they will let you off with a fine.
If you are the citizen of a less powerful country, like this Lebanon doctor, you go to jail.
[+] [-] fmajid|3 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_of_Matthew_Hedges
Western governments are as craven in appeasing the UAE and Saudi kleptocracies, because of their wealth, as poor countries like India or Pakistan that hire themselves as mercenaries for the emirs dirty work (like kidnapping princess Latina of Dubai). Calling them medieval would be a grave insult to the Dark Ages.
[+] [-] aliswe|3 years ago|reply
#2: Sounds like at least one of them was pretty drunk. Men regularly walk hand in had in arab societies, even only holding the pinky! Given that its the same source as #1, I wont hold my breath.
#3 "a simple peck on the cheek" are you kidding me? ever been to Dubai?!
[+] [-] jmyeet|3 years ago|reply
It can even go beyond the ruling family. There was a US helicopter pilot (IIRC) who wrote something disparaging about his Qatari employer on Facebook while in the United States who was arrested upon his return to Qatar for it.
You have to be aware of the laws of whatever country you're going to and respect them. Ignore them at your own peril. You don't really get to complain it. Your choices are either to go and follow and law and not go. Ignorance is no excuse.
I'd actually be way more wary of taking a job in some of these countries. To leave Qatar, for eample, you need an exit visa. Basically, your employer has to consent. This system is ripe for abuse and has been abused many times. Employers use it to withhold wages in exchange for giving their permission. Personally, I would never work in such a place.
[+] [-] mieubrisse|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trhway|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] toomuchtodo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mytailorisrich|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Imnimo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quantified|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] l33t2328|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mytailorisrich|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wara23arish|3 years ago|reply
Is the tweet in question. It is worth noting that we’re not sure yet that the tweet is true.
But lets assume it is:
Do people really think that this tweet should be enough to detain/arrest him? People in the US and in Lebanon (most of the world too) make countless of posts vilifying and wishing politicians dead.
The guy is a Christian doctor from Lebanon visiting for tourism/work. He has no impact or connections on houthis.
I also promise there’s countless of Lebanese people with similar or worse tweets visiting UAE.
Putting my conspiracy hat on:
Elections are coming up in Lebanon, arresting this doctor will make major news in Lebanon.
This will illicit two types of reaction there, people will be cheering this person’s arrest or will be cheering for a more hardline stance and distancing against UAE.
There are parties that claim to have good connections to UAE royalty (more like serfs) who will use this to say that this wouldn’t happen under their rule.
[+] [-] anonu|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tradethedelta|3 years ago|reply
Unfortunately, Lebanon is a complete basket case of a country. So many well educated Lebanese are forced to find work in Gulf countries with repressive regimes. They pay well to buy your silence.
[+] [-] oaiey|3 years ago|reply
Not exactly sure how this doctor got arrested but if they automatically scan feeds on arrival and then process them by strict adherence to law, that is bad.
[+] [-] Lamad123|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brightball|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wangii|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Barrin92|3 years ago|reply
I'm gonna be honest how can anyone actually think tweeting that is a good idea.
[+] [-] someotherperson|3 years ago|reply
> “The talk about this tweet is fake news,” a source close to the gynecologist and an MP of the Free Patriotic Movement, to which Kharrat is allegedly close, told L’Orient-Le Jour on condition of anonymity.
> He claimed that this tweet appeared after Kharrat’s arrest, saying that it was not published on the doctor’s personal account, but on that of an UAE national
It appears that the original tweet was faked.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] asadlionpk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kjellWho|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mardifoufs|3 years ago|reply
>In 2013, a French mother was sentenced for “glorifying a crime” after she allowed her son, named Jihad, to go to school wearing a shirt that said “I am a bomb.”
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] zeruch|3 years ago|reply
If you openly support those kinds of groups, you absolutely SHOULD be stopped and interviewed/interrogated at the border. The 'humor' part has to be evaluated (e.g. if someone is always cracking weird jokes vs someone who suddenly pulls a Trumpian rant-one liner and tries to pass if off as ha-ha when it's really just the quiet part out loud).
[+] [-] Krasnol|3 years ago|reply