There are many videos of escooter battery fires, but the following is probably one of the most dramatic ones (not related to OP): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBUGEFErXxA
Yes, there really needs to be some form of certification for lithium-ion (and other...) batteries used in personal transportation devices.
The recipe is really simple: insufficient structural integrity of the entire product leading to flexing the battery pack, leading to a short-circuit in one or more cells, leading to a violent-and-very-smokey fire.
The previous scare was with "hoverboards", where kids burnt down their parents' houses after bumping into something. And now it's apparently e-scooters, which are a bit more difficult to dismiss as "just a fad toy"...
In any case: safety markings are not just rent-seeking behavior. In some cases, certification (and subsequent enforcement of the presence of authentic markings) are literal life-savers.
Primarily we need investment in a battery chemistry that doesn't have 'self-sustaining exothermic runaway' as a normal failure mode when overcharged, or charged too fast, or discharged too fast, or discharged to too low a voltage in a pack without a proper BMS, or charged after being discharged to too low a voltage, or physically damaged, or due to random manufacturing defects. It's not just hoverboards and escooters, it's those exploding laptop batteries years ago, exploding samsung phones, and now in nearly all EV's. Recently I've been seeing more LiCo packs powering wheelchairs.
The RC community are more often selecting to use LiFePO4 batteries in their controllers, regardless of what's in the remote device. Boat builders prefer LiFePO4 for safety reasons. Lithium iron phosphate batteries don't have an exothermic failure mode other than standard flammability of the materials. LiFePO4 or similar should be a standard for any large-capacity battery powered device a person holds, wears, or occupies.
My main concern now is what's going to happen as these batteries age. Ebikes and escooters in general are going to earn a reputation that should be earned by a specific battery chemistry. EV's will too as more of them age into the backyard mechanic resale price range. People are going to get hurt, and leaders who don't know better will hamstring lithium batteries in general.
There was a veritable epidemic of these in Singapore, with many fires and some deaths. Almost all were attributable to no-brand Chinese manufacturers that skimp on everything they can, including forging certifications. The government since instituted a UL2272 certification requirement and offered free disposal of non-compliant devices.
We collectively have nearly a hundred years of learning how to deal with the hazards of gasoline, we will need to learn the hazards of batteries the same painful way.
I don't know what the real level of danger is but most of us probably have dozens of rechargeable batteries in our homes including in old electronics we don't use any longer. I've found a couple of old pieces of Apple gear with very swollen batteries.
The number of batteries will only increase as a lot of outdoor gear (lawn mowers and the like) are increasingly practical to have cordless electric versions of--to say nothing of cars. (Of course, this decreases the need to store gasoline at home.)
As battery tech improves, by definition we are going to reach ever increasing energy densities, ideally on the order of magnitde of hydrocarbons'.
Moreover, people will want for devices to charge fast. This implies a lot of waste heath, which negatively impacts energy efficiency and requires smart electronics to keep temperatures under control (I suspect this second aspect is what failed in this case).
However, once we get to high densities, we'll have to consider safety seriously: who would want to sleep close to all that energy stored in a small space, with zero activation energy to protect from a runaway?
There has been sooooo many fires in singapore caused by these e-scooters. They should be banned or heavily regulated because it’s a bit ridiculous how many fires there are.
At least require them to watch a sped up 5min video of a lithium battery bursting on fire. With attempts at extinguishing the flames. Make the user realize it will not be a normal fire. A lot of people wouldnt imagine a small solid device to act that way.
Depending on whether it was the "Boom Corbett 14" or "Boom Corbett 14-EX", it had either a 2.3KWh or 4.6KWh battery. That's a lot of hazardous material in your living room either way. Probably 25-50lbs (11-22 kilos) of it?
If you want one backed by a reputable company's warranty and consumer safety, Segway sells a good one. Other reputable brands include Apollo, Unagi and Razor.
I've heard people say recently that electric vehicles catch fire at the same rate as gas vehicles. Proof that they're basically safe enough.
Except that has vehicles catch fire after an accident, or after 200k miles when someone let's an oil leak go on for way too long.
Electric vehicles are catching fire while basically new, and while being used in standard ways like being parked and charging in your garage. It's not common at all for newish gas cars to catch fire while parked.
Ather, one of the first e-scooter makers in India, had claimed that imported Li-ion batteries aren't suited for Indian weather, so they designed their own. Many parts of India easily hit 40C and more in the summer. Given the spate of e-scooter fires here recently, they may have been right.
An opportunity to improve fire stations across the world to handle battery fires. Also pretty sad that beta adopters of new tech like this get hit with shit like this. I wonder if batteries are going to get demonized like nuclear energy.
This situation is tragic. Why isn’t there a better setup to keep bikes outside at night? Even having a petrol bike in the house isn’t ideal so close to where people are sleeping.
[+] [-] sva_|3 years ago|reply
It's crazy how quickly shit goes south.
[+] [-] endisneigh|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] temp8964|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Fuhrer01|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mdb31|3 years ago|reply
The recipe is really simple: insufficient structural integrity of the entire product leading to flexing the battery pack, leading to a short-circuit in one or more cells, leading to a violent-and-very-smokey fire.
The previous scare was with "hoverboards", where kids burnt down their parents' houses after bumping into something. And now it's apparently e-scooters, which are a bit more difficult to dismiss as "just a fad toy"...
In any case: safety markings are not just rent-seeking behavior. In some cases, certification (and subsequent enforcement of the presence of authentic markings) are literal life-savers.
[+] [-] nabilhat|3 years ago|reply
The RC community are more often selecting to use LiFePO4 batteries in their controllers, regardless of what's in the remote device. Boat builders prefer LiFePO4 for safety reasons. Lithium iron phosphate batteries don't have an exothermic failure mode other than standard flammability of the materials. LiFePO4 or similar should be a standard for any large-capacity battery powered device a person holds, wears, or occupies.
My main concern now is what's going to happen as these batteries age. Ebikes and escooters in general are going to earn a reputation that should be earned by a specific battery chemistry. EV's will too as more of them age into the backyard mechanic resale price range. People are going to get hurt, and leaders who don't know better will hamstring lithium batteries in general.
[+] [-] reportingsjr|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sokoloff|3 years ago|reply
This makes me wonder if society should subsidize safety and compliance testing to reduce the incentive to skip it.
[+] [-] thematrixturtle|3 years ago|reply
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/over-1700-pmds-dispos...
[+] [-] bombcar|3 years ago|reply
That scooter brand has an unfortunate name.
We collectively have nearly a hundred years of learning how to deal with the hazards of gasoline, we will need to learn the hazards of batteries the same painful way.
[+] [-] ghaff|3 years ago|reply
The number of batteries will only increase as a lot of outdoor gear (lawn mowers and the like) are increasingly practical to have cordless electric versions of--to say nothing of cars. (Of course, this decreases the need to store gasoline at home.)
[+] [-] lupire|3 years ago|reply
Car models have unsafe design flaws too.
[+] [-] KSPAtlas|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] muxator|3 years ago|reply
Moreover, people will want for devices to charge fast. This implies a lot of waste heath, which negatively impacts energy efficiency and requires smart electronics to keep temperatures under control (I suspect this second aspect is what failed in this case).
However, once we get to high densities, we'll have to consider safety seriously: who would want to sleep close to all that energy stored in a small space, with zero activation energy to protect from a runaway?
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] philliphaydon|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] juanani|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andrewingram|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bluescrn|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reirob|3 years ago|reply
[1]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/paris-withdraws-149-ele...
[+] [-] tyingq|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rilindo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dharmab|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] namecheapTA|3 years ago|reply
Except that has vehicles catch fire after an accident, or after 200k miles when someone let's an oil leak go on for way too long.
Electric vehicles are catching fire while basically new, and while being used in standard ways like being parked and charging in your garage. It's not common at all for newish gas cars to catch fire while parked.
[+] [-] space_rock|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hiyer|3 years ago|reply
(I'm not associated with Ather in any way.)
[+] [-] Fuhrer01|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] kylehotchkiss|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phendrenad2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway693|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cevaboyz|3 years ago|reply