[civil_engineer]

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch.

Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

[whimsicalism]

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience...

At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military.

e: From another comment on Reddit

> Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the altimeter was and his altitude “I’m maintaining 9100 feet” > Passenger was able to identify the transponder and enter a squawk code. > Passenger knew what the vertical speed indicator was “I’m descending right now at 550 feet a minute passing 8640 feet”. > My wife, who flies with me regularly, might get one or two of those items, but probably couldn't point out the transponder, much less enter a squawk code without instructions.

[efitz]

I have 30 minutes and 2 touch-and-go’s in my log book. I suck at Microsoft Flight Simulator.

In 30 minutes of the instructor sitting next to me, I successfully landed and took off in a Cessna 172, learned to trim power, elevators and flaps, learned how to transmit and how to “squawk ident”, and what channel to use in emergencies (1202 IIRC).

Operating the airplane was very straightforward. Without the instructor or someone talking to me, I would not have known what to do when, but I can completely see how someone reasonably smart, calm, and able to follow directions could land such an airplane in good conditions.

[mcculley]

I have flown enough as a passenger with a single pilot to know some of those things. While I have held the wheel a bit, I have no formal training and no experience taking off or landing. If I were in the same situation, I would tell ATC, "I have no idea what I am doing" to err on the more useful end of expectations for assistance.

[hgomersall]

Genuine question, is my experience playing Microsoft flight simulator any use in being able to answer those questions, because it certainly feels like I can say something sensible about them.

[travisgriggs]

Got my PPL 2 years ago (almost), and love taking people for rides to various nearby destinations. It's my "Sunday Drive" and a chance to share with others.

These questions often get answered pretty quickly. We get talking on our headsets, now I'm about to taxi, and so I make a call. Shortly there after, when I'm talking to my passenger, there's a nervous 'Can other people hear me??' 'Nope, I push this button right here to broadcast to everyone, otherwise it's just you and me.' 'Where is that button? Is this it? I don't want to push it.'

In a small airplane, any interested passenger will ask a number of questions that help that acclimate. If this guy was a friend of the pilot and flew a bit with him, he had some familiarity.

Is there a full recording up anywhere yet?

I would love to know how fast they landed him. My inclination would be to talk someone through a landing that was a little faster than usual, because you have more control, and don't have to worry about the flair so much. Just drive it gently onto the runway and then slow it down after that. Which works fine for a little plane on a big runway.

[water-your-self]

It was a cessna with two passengers. I would assume that the passenger at minimum has a pilot/ flight enthusiast in their life.

[Macha]

They're in a cessna, with one other person piloting. I think spending a significant time around aviation is a given, but I also wouldn't call that flying experience.

It's not like being in the cabin in a commercial airliner, you'd see the pilot doing these things, and honestly as far as plane interfaces go, the Cessna is not bad.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...

Here's the instrument panel. While I wouldn't say every untrained person can just "figure it out", I think there are a decent number who would at least be able to get an altitude, heading, and vertical speed reading out of that. Especially if you'd spent some time in the last 30 minutes looking at them while your pilot friend is focused on flying.

I've spent a signficant amount of time flying cessnas in MS flight sim and XPlane, but I wouldn't assume that would automatically carry over if I ended up in a situation like that, and I certainly would err on the side of caution and risk ATC thinking I had less knowledge than risk overstating it and risk something going wrong because they end up thinking I'd be confident performing an ILS approach or something.

[egwor]

I reckon I could do most of those things except transmit to ATC and squawk. I suspect I could google the rest or call someone to tell me how to. If there's a manual up there, then maybe that will have info?

[adventured]

From another article:

"Morgan [controller] learned the passenger on the line had never flown a plane -- but had been around aviation and seen other pilots fly."

[CydeWeys]

I have zero experience flying planes (or being near people flying them), but I do have ham radio experience. Sounds like that might actually help a lot. I've even spent some time listening to the ~120 MHz AM aviation bands.

[rejor121]

I lean towards aggreing with you. It’s possible he was prior military. I was an AE and worked on basically all of the flight systems in my eight years in the navy.

The fact he knew phonetics just makes me believe he served or at the very least, was heavily exposed in another function.

[AtNightWeCode]

I think most people would be screwed cause there seems to a lot of different ways to get the radio to work in the first place. At least for larger planes.

[Abishek_Muthian]

May be transmitting to ATC with proper terminologies was learnt by watching the pilot do it? I assume there's not much to do as a passenger in a small aircraft like Cessna 208?

Btw, This got me curious and looked into Rowan Atkinson's (Mr. Bean) similar plane incident[1] where he supposedly maintained control of the aircraft mid-air when his pilot was incapacitated and the pilot recovered eventually to land the plane. All information on this incident points to Rowan not having any prior flying experience.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowan_Atkinson#Plane_incident

[dghughes]

Yeah as a former student pilot (and that is all) I was curious about their specific knowledge and terminology.

Maintaining altitude was what I found most difficult as a student pilot my instructor drew a line on the windscreen with a marker to help me. I could vary 1,000 feet or more up or down before the instructor told what was going on.

Knowing how to get the frequency for the tower or just knowing they had to was telling.

And landing is tricky knowing to aim at the end of the runway as if you're going to crash and then flare as if you're going up again. All counter-intuitive to anyone who is not aware that's what's done. Not to mention speed, flaps, rudder control.

And the barf oh the barf!

[medion]

None of these observations seem impossible for someone who is able to maintain low stress levels, think rationally and understand the overall general mechanics of how planes fly and what is important - altitude, speed, etc.

[stevage]

I would love to hear the full audio somewhere. Maybe there was a lot of extra information about how to use those controls.

He was also very comfortable with the radio, dropping in terms like 10-4.

A similar episode a few years back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzhKczNcB_c

(There's the full audio for that somewhere but I can't find it right now)

[ChicagoBoy11]

As a pilot that was my first instinct as well... it just sounded like he knew his way around an airplane... fully concede he may not have been a pilot, but he was clearly way too familiar with the situation to be described as someone who had "no idea how to fly", imo.

[dominotw]

He was also so calm. Making me think he knew there was a way out if got some help.

[Trufa]

I honestly kind of know what all of that is and I have seriously NO idea how to fly a plane.

[cryptonector]

Where's the audio? TFA has very little of it.

EDIT: Never mind. You can find it downthread.

[ddingus]

Could have been a gamer

[loup-vaillant]

Pilot student here. I’m not floored at all, for two reasons: my own experience, and selection bias.

I once maintained level on a Cessna equivalent with zero training besides video games (I loved flight simulators back in the late 90s), and a tiny bit of model flying (I flew little and crashed a lot). Maintaining altitude wasn’t trivial, but maintaining level was dead easy. I’m sure I could have managed a very slight bank turn safely. Now landing… some years later I got 5 hours of gliding. My first landing went well enough that the instructor didn’t have to take control. If my instructor got sick instead, I would give my former self 30% chance of avoiding injury or death. 75% if a trained instructor with a similar glider could tail me and observe me more closely (and I think there were). Never ever gonna risk such folly of course, but I wouldn’t have been doomed either.

Then there’s selection bias: we hear of this because it is a feat. No question about that. Now let’s not forget about all the people that tried this and died. For those we’ll only hear of the pilot getting sick and the plane crashing. Or just the plane crashing. Those make for less impressive headlines.

[tgsovlerkhgsel]

Passenger who got to hold the stick for a bit. Flying the plane is easy. Flying it roughly at some altitude in a rough direction you're given is also easy.

Now, landing it? That's an entirely different beast for sure.

[eachro]

I think doing this under pressure is what's most impressive.

[freerobby]

Also pilot here, agreed.

I suspect there is a little more to the story. On the LiveATC audio, he was giving descent rates and asking tower/approach for headings. Didn't speak like a pilot but seemed to know more than a layperson. Maybe some aviation exposure but no flight time? Whatever the case, very well done by both him and ATC.

[randall]

It seems reasonable that if someone is in a two person cessna they probably have some additional flight exposure, right? I wouldn't know anything about most of that stuff... but I could probably figure out some of it in the moment just because of my technical bent. A lot of my founder friends are pilots, and were able to adapt pretty quickly... so maybe it's one of those things?

[brightball]

I heard the story on the radio this morning and they said that not only was the controller a certified instructor but he flew this specific plane so he knew how to direct him to everything on the panel! Really incredible bit of coincidence.

[albert_e]

On the contrary the CNN story [0] said the controller was NOT familiar with this specific plane so he got a print out of the dashboard of that model so that he can guide the "pilot" properly. There was also a picture.

[0] https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/florida-passenger-lan...

[ColinWright]

From one of the other submissions:

"Morgan had never flown this model Cessna. He pulled up a picture of the instrument panel's layout and started guiding his new student step-by-step."

Morgan was the ATC.

[mattmaroon]

Idk, I’ve only flown 172s and have only landed a handful of times myself, but I think you could fairly easily talk someone through landing with an at least decent chance of survival if the weather was good. I mean this is not an experiment you want to run, of course. But landing in good conditions is pretty intuitive. You can tell if your angle to the runway is good or bad pretty easily and just adjust the throttle. And those things will stop themselves with plenty of runway left. You could probably land a small plane halfway down the runway, not know how to operate the brakes, and still come to a crawl before the end in most places.

I wouldn’t take an even money wager on it but I don’t think it’s terribly unlikely to have a decent landing. Especially since the pilot likely was showing him the controls in air before going unresponsive.

[mhb]

> I think you could fairly easily talk someone through landing

The bad news is that it is 10/28 (east-west) and the wind was reported from the north at 11 knots gusting 17.

KPBI 101553Z 02011G17KT 10SM SCT042 SCT046 26/15

A student pilot with 20 hours of training probably wouldn’t have been signed off by his/her/zir/their instructor to operate in that kind of crosswind.

From: https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2022/05/10/a-hero-flies-th...

[nevf1]

It is fairly intuitive but my first few landings in a Cessna 150 were not pleasant at all. Granted it was a grass runway but I'd have been in serious trouble without my instructor. I'm sure the tower would have been able to give good guidance on pitch, angle, etc. but there's a lot of juggling going on when you're landing a plane, especially when you're inexperienced.

[alfalfasprout]

I'm not overly surprised for two reasons:

1) This was a single engine plane w/out constant speed prop. So really the only things to worry about would be throttle, flight controls (maybe trim), and mixture. 2) Looks like it was a steam gauge plane so luckily the student didn't have to learn a fugly glass panel UI 3) The stall speed on these planes is pretty low, so ATC probably had them do a pattern to get used to the distances and then come in a bit hot for the actual landing. Coming in a bit hot in a cessna like that just results in landing deep or a rough landing when you pull the power vs. stalling and crashing (which is much more likely if the PIC tried to do 60 knots on final). If they roll past the end of the runway a bit it'll damage the plane but at least they're on the ground. 4) The landing gear on those planes is really strong. You can botch the landing and the plane will be fine.

[dredmorbius]

Since you mention landing hot --- from the landing video, my take is that the approach was fast, and that the pilot used up a lot of runway before making actual ground contact.

That said, there was plenty of runway available, and on touchdown, the excess speed (if any) was easily compensated for.

The passenger-pilot clearly had general aviation familiarity, and kept a cool head. Both of which help immensely.

(My own flight experience: general understanding of flight controls and theory, pax in a handful of small-plane flights, RH seat. An hour or so of straight-and-level flying. A bit of sim. No formal training.)

[FartyMcFarter]

I had flight lessons, and after a few hours of training (most of which were unrelated to landing), I was able to land on a short runway, about 2000 feet long.

Landing on a long runway (10001 feet / 3048 meters [1]) as was done here is much easier, as long as the plane doesn't malfunction and visibility is good. So I'm not that surprised that some people would be able to do this given good instructions over the radio / phone. Especially so if the person doing it has witnessed landings from a cockpit before, which may have been the case here.

With such a long and wide runway, if you can direct the plane to fly over the runway and then cut off power, that should be enough to land the plane somewhat safely I would think.

[1] Runway 10L at https://skyvector.com/airport/PBI/Palm-Beach-International-A...

[pilot7378535]

Same, I'd hate to see a novice try to land on a narrow 2000' runway hemmed in by tall trees and a "snotty" 7+ kt crosswind component pushing the plane around.

Lucky they were in Florida with working radios and gas in the tank to reach an accommodating runway. None of that should detract from the emergency pilot's excellent handling of the situation though—bravo!

[edit] Apparently there was a significant crosswind:

  KPBI 101553Z 02011G17KT 10SM SCT042 SCT046 26/15

Even more impressive then!

[rburhum]

I have only flown a plane once. Took off and landed it without a problem with an instructor next to me. He said I was really good and complemented me a lot because he thought I was a natural during the simulator class and the real Cessna flight. I just thanked him. Do you want to know my secret? I never told him that I worked a year at MS Game Studios as a dev for MS Flight Simulator.

[14]

What do you consider flying experience? I, if given a chance would attempt to land a plane today and have no formal training. Mostly I would want to do it to prove some around me that is is possible. I did however play a million hours of pilot wings though that is hardly a flight simulator it is just to basic. I have dabbled slightly with Microsoft flight simulator but again just to fly around and play never took it seriously. I’ve always wanted to fly and honestly think I would land a plane. I don’t think I would do everything correctly like a pilot but given a moderately sized runway think I could easily bring a plane down safely. I’m confident enough that if given the chance today I would go and try it. Maybe I am just crazy.

[TomVDB]

Frankly, I’m not super surprised? I had a few hours of flight instruction before I dropped out (it just didn’t fascinate me), and what struck me was that you’re doing a landing during the first lesson.

As long as the landing strip is long enough, you can take things very slowly.

[eins1234]

> Pilot here.

For a second, I thought you were the pilot from the article that was incapacitated haha...

[throwaway0a5e]

A lot of people in aviation wind up being instructors to rack up flight hours early in their careers. An ATC, A&P mechanic, a charter pilot or any other aviation professional that would have probably had some commercial flying time earlier in their career being an instructor isn't a given but it's also not surprising at all. The fact that they were able to verbalize stuff sufficiently well for the person at the controls to do the right thing is the more impressive part.

[zapdrive]

Obama administration pushed Affirmative Action into ATC [0], lowering the scores required for "minorites". Candidates with maths and science background are actually being penalized to increase "diversity".

0 https://www.wsj.com/articles/affirmative-action-lands-in-the...

[wolverine876]

Ironically, most of American industry has long been an affirmative action program for white males - in education, hiring, promotion, etc., they have been given preference to others. That affirmative action program is far larger and has done far more damage than any other; that is the problem.

[rosnd]

>Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch.

Also a pilot here. I don't get it, this is a Cessna 208 we're talking about, a very easy plane to land given good conditions.

They even had a very long runway to work with here.

[neverminder]

I'm not a pilot, but isn't this plane like the easiest to pilot and thus land for someone inexperienced? If this was a jet, the passenger in question would probably be pretty screwed?

[jhugo]

No, this wasn't a little Cessna 172. This aircraft is a turboprop and likely has a glass cockpit. Still relatively simpler in terms of systems than most jets, but because it's a turbine it wouldn't be your first choice for someone inexperienced to take over.

Interestingly a big jet might be easier. It would likely be on autopilot and autothrottle when the novice took over. ATC would need to talk them through programming a diversion into FMS and some other systems stuff, but if there was an airport nearby with good weather and a suitable ILS, and nothing failed, they could set up an autoland and never have to actually handle the aircraft themselves.

[enw]

> Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor.

Source? The article itself is quite short.

[the_af]

It is mentioned (speculated about, actually) in the ATC radio chatter, see here near the 4:50 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MDwzNtDMlA

[ashtonbaker]

wapo article quotes this from the liveatc recording