Apple Cash

[vivegi]

In India, the coalescing of payments around the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI)'s payment network and standard called Unified Payments Interface (UPI) has been a gamechanger. Bank consumers can create virtual addresses that they can give to any individual or entity and use it for sending / receiving money. The recipient can be a customer of any bank, not necessarily theirs. As long as the bank is on the NPCI backbone (almost all banks are), the transaction is safe, secure and seamless. At the moment, there are no fees for using UPI and the transaction limit is Rs. 200,000 (approx. USD 2500), so a vast majority of small ticket purchases can be done electronically. The transaction volume statistics at NPCI is pretty impressive. https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-statistics

[intrasight]

The Economist recently discussed. To demonstrate the success of UPI, the mentioned that panhanders now routinely present an UPI barcode instead of a pan. I doubt that Apple Cash will have the same success.

[ptman]

It's really ridiculous that EU is relying on Mastercard/Visa everywhere. There is EPI (European Payments Initiative, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Initiative), but it's slow. And not everyone is happy with that, so there's a competing initiative called P27 https://nordicpayments.eu/

[FabHK]

Goes to show that deft government regulation/steering can really achieve something. Similar to SEPA in the EU.

[subpixel]

I'm reminded that in 1994, in Germany, I could give you a number and you could send me money, for free, via the post office.

[basisword]

I find it odd things like this, Venmo, Square cash even need to exist. There’s a reason none of them get used much (or even exist) outside the US. Just fix banking in the US and they problems they solve disappear. In the UK (and the EU I believe too) bank transfers and instant and free. Digital banks like Monzo make it even easier (through contact syncing, better UI). Third party apps need not get involved.

[johnwalkr]

In Canada you’ve been able to send money to people for 15 years just by knowing their email address. You also set a security question. I also had a debit card I could use in most stores almost 30 years ago.

I was shocked as a young adult when I could travel in the US and use my debit card to get money at almost any atm, yet Americans had to sometimes seek out the correct ATM, even in their country.

I was shocked again in Japan when I moved here ten years ago when online banking was useless, transfers took up to 3 days, and most of the bank’s atms closed at 5 or 6pm. Oddly enough I could always find some atm open 24 hours that worked with my Canadian debit card, even when I could not find an atm open that worked with my Japan Post bank debit card. Those problems are all solved now, but it’s no wonder that there are now 30+ competing digital payment systems in Japan vs just a few in Canada. You also have to still really go out of your way when choosing a bank to make sure that your debit card will work overseas.

The original Canadian system is called Interac, and it’s nice that everyone has been able to use it for 30+ Years. I’ve never heard of anyone being blacklisted due to an error, like you hear about with PayPal and the other things that have come since then.

[x3ro]

It is true that bank transfers are fast, instant most of the time these days. However, when people want to quickly send me money, they still usually ask for paypal, simply because it’s easier to tell someone a nickname or email address than my IBAN. not that this is an unsolvable issue, just sharing my experience from Germany.

[fiskeben]

Bank transfers are not instant in Norway at least. There is a popular peer to peer app called Vipps that handles all of the complexity for you. If somebody's at your door picking up the couch you sold online you can't wait for the bank transfer to go through.

[harg]

I believe Monzo is becoming available in the US so this might help improve the situation there, at least for monzo-to-monzo transfers. However I guess the whole system needs improving to allow seamless inter-bank transfers without a middleman.

[toomuchtodo]

US FedNow instant payments go live next year.

[sascha_sl]

Instant SEPA is still a bit of a luxury feature adopted mostly by fintechs, at least the sending side.

[user_named]

A bit of a product marketing snafu by Apple if I may say. 1. Apple Cash is apparently not cash, nor a wallet, but a card that is stored inside wallet. 2.There is already Apple Wallet, Apple Pay, Apple Card. It looks to me that they're all the same. Why can't I Pay with the Cash in my Wallet. Or can I?

[ryandrake]

> 1. Apple Cash is apparently not cash, nor a wallet, but a card that is stored inside wallet. 2.There is already Apple Wallet, Apple Pay, Apple Card.

Nobody in technology, at least in the USA, seems to be able to make the marketing for their "payment things" understandable. On the Google side, there is (or was) Google Wallet (OG), Android Pay, Google Pay, gPay, now Google Wallet (new). I don't know which one I should be using, or what each one deliberately can't do. Some handset makers have their own apps: Samsung Pay, for example. Then, there's the individual apps: Venmo, PayPal, Square Cash, Zelle, Xoom...

A web search shows there are probably a dozen more, all incompatible with each other. It's like VHS vs Betamax and HD-DVD vs. BluRay all over again, but instead with 20 different formats. How has this industry so royally fucked up something that should be pretty straightforward?

[kalleboo]

- Apple Wallet is an e-wallet that can contain many things - payment cards, store point cards, plane tickets, concert tickets, vaccine certificates, driver's license, etc.

- Apple Pay is a method to pay using the payment cards in your Wallet in stores and online that is supported by many credit/debit cards

- Apple Card is a MasterCard credit card

- Apple Cash is an bank account with a VISA debit card. This is inline with other similar services like the popular "Cash app"

Compared to other confusing naming schemes (Apple TV/+, and absolutely anything Google does) this seems pretty straightforward to me.

[matt_s]

If you look at the fine print, Apple Cash appears to be a UI/branding layer for Green Dot Bank, a 40 yo bank in Utah. I believe you essentially end up with a FDIC bank account and Apple Cash just puts a huge brand name and pretty UI on the debit card for that account.

So Apple Pay is the service, Apple Card is their credit card and Apple Cash is their debit card via some bank. You can sidestep all that and just put your own credit card in the Wallet and use some other cash-like service.

The large problem with a lot of these cash-like services is in order for the exchange to happen, two people have to be on the same service. If Apple Cash takes off, then you just need to know if your friend has an iPhone and then its viable and much easier than having to go signup for one of these other services (zelle, cash app, venmo, etc.) just to chip in for a gift or dinner.

[duskwuff]

> Why can't I Pay with the Cash in my Wallet. Or can I?

You can. In fact, if you're using Apple Card, the cash-back rewards show up as Apple Cash.

[gnicholas]

Agreed. It's like the Apple TV moniker, which refers to hardware, software, and a subscription service.

[andrewaylett]

I'm assuming that under the hood it's a pre-pay debit card. An easy choice when they already have all the infrastructure for making payments using debit cards in their products.

[wan23]

You can Appple Pay with the Apple Cash in your Apple Wallet. You can also pay off your Apple Card balance with the Apple Cash, and also using the Apple Card earns you Apple Cash back. It's not a card in the wallet, but because the wallet UI only shows card UI components it's not surprising that you thought of it that way.

[shrimpx]

It seems to be Apple's vehicle for making p2p payments, particularly through messages.

It's also a virtual debit card, so you can spend or transfer the money, but it seems the its raison d'être is p2p payments.

[bibinou]

the name is a rip-off of Square's Cash App: https://cash.app Wallet is an actual wallet where you can put cards, coupons...

Pay is the whole system of APIs used to pay via NFC or online, authed by biometrics (Touch/FaceID). As a user you just add your credit card and it works better than contactless credit cards.

Apple Card is an Apple credit card with cashback backed by Goldman Sachs. US-only.

[sparkywolf]

Why is this on the front page..? Apple Cash has been around for years. It doesn't even look like they've added anything new unless I'm missing something?

[pjc50]

It's just a regular card:

    "Apple Cash services are provided by Green Dot Bank, Member FDIC. Learn more about the Terms and Conditions. Only available in the U.S. on eligible devices. To send and receive money with an Apple Cash account, you must be 18 and a U.S. resident. If you’re under 18, your family organizer can set up Apple Cash for you as part of their Apple Cash Family account. Security checks may require more time to make funds available. Apple Cash Family accounts can send or receive up to $2000 per transaction or within a seven-day period. Sending money from Wallet requires iOS 15.5 or later.

    An Apple Cash card is required to use Daily Cash, except if you do not have an Apple Cash card, in which case you can only apply your Daily Cash as a credit on your statement balance. The Apple Cash card is issued by Green Dot Bank, Member FDIC. See apple.com/apple-pay for more information. Daily Cash is earned on purchases after the transaction posts to your account. Actual posting times vary by merchant. Daily Cash is subject to exclusions, and additional details apply. See the Apple Card Customer Agreement for more information.

    Variable APRs range from 11.24% to 22.24% based on creditworthiness. Rates as of April 1, 2022.

    To access and use all the features of Apple Card, you must add Apple Card to Wallet on an iPhone or iPad with the latest version of iOS or iPadOS. Update to the latest version by going to Settings > General > Software Update. Tap Download and Install.

    Available for qualifying applicants in the United States.

    Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch"

[aembleton]

Good point, here it is from last year https://web.archive.org/web/20210621194249/https://www.apple...

[WorldMaker]

Person to person cash transfers and family Apple Cash accounts are new features just recently enabled. I assume that's why it's in the news today.

[plg]

I find it hilarious that at this Apple Canada help page:

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207886

it says among other requirements for Apple Cash:

What you need

- Be at least 18 years old and live in the United States.

[alex_young]

That’s the Canadian English version of a help page. The British English version says the same thing. It just means this product has launched in the US and has localized help content.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT207886

[moolcool]

So typical of the Canadian UX for so many things :(

[braingenious]

To be clear, this is in practice basically a competitor for Venmo/Cash App/Paypal, but built into your iphone?

I only did a cursory glance at it but is there an Android app planned for this? In my experience, people want to send money to one another across different mobile OSes.

[warning26]

Yup, pretty much.

I can't imagine how Apple concluded that "It's exactly like Venmo in every way, but it only works for people with iPhones!" would make a particularly compelling value proposition.

[giancarlostoro]

This will likely be like Facetime. I don't think Apple typically cares about this use case, just like nobody is going to use an Apple Card on an iPhone. This is targetted towards iPhone households (which seem to be rather common, as anecdotal as it may sound, I can count a dozen households where nobody has Android, and this meets their need).

I would use Zelle for cross device transfer or any of the other apps, it's not like we have a shortage of them. Although I agree it would be good if we had less of them to need to use.

[phinnaeus]

This is a rebranding of Apple Pay Cash, which launched in 2014. Not sure if there's much in the ways of new features.

[divbzero]

Yes, Apple has had this for awhile, but apparently there was an underlying change in April when the service shifted from Discover to Visa [1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pay#Apple_Cash

[pkulak]

Really silly and not related, but I've tried half a dozen of these things for managing my kid's allowance and general spending, and they have all been a PITA. Either my kids can't sign up without a drivers license and credit check, or they can't send money to me or between themselves, or something else entirely. Maybe Apple has fixed this, but I do remember also trying Cash, and there was some deal breaker for my use.

Anyway, I ended up just writing a Matrix bot* that's a glorified spreadsheet. It's 600 lines of Rust, or probably 100 of Python. Works a treat!

* https://github.com/pkulak/bots/blob/main/src/bots/money.rs

[callmeed]

Have you not tried Greenlight? My 3 kids have had greenlight cards since they were 12. The mobile app UX isn’t great but it checks all the boxes on features.

Few products have made our personal lives so much easier. Not having to ever get/give cash for them is amazing.

[CompleteWalker]

Not sure about the age requirements or other account specifics, etc. But it seems like you should be able to use Apple Cash for allowances and such

From the FAQ: >How do I add money to my Apple Cash card? >If you’re under 18, money is added to your Apple Cash card only when someone sends you money.

[technothrasher]

I use a Capital One MONEY account for my kid. It's a pretty standard fee free checking account for him (minus the actual paper checks) but it allows me to see what he's doing, add/remove money, and turn his debit card on/off as I wish.

[jibbers]

New marketing site for Apple Cash? Looks like they also added https://www.apple.com/wallet/ and https://www.apple.com/apple-pay/.

[alistairSH]

Hasn’t Apple Cash been around for a few years now? What prompted this post?

[ChrisMarshallNY]

I’m not sure I understand what’s new.

Apple has had Cash for a long time (the Apple Card uses it for card rewards).

[pdimitar]

What are the tax implications of this, if any? I know people in extended families regularly sending money between themselves. Can they expect the IRS knocking on the door and blaming them for hiding income?

I am worried about them now. They will find this super convenient and will use it from day one. Hope this service is private.

[supernova87a]

Can I send US$ to someone in a different country? How does that work?

[tcmb]

From the FAQ: "send and receive money in Messages or Wallet. The money you receive appears on your Apple Cash card in Wallet."

Can I get the money out of Apple Cash, except for spending it via Apple Pay? Can I withdraw the money to a bank account? If not, I find it a bit limiting. If someone sends me money via Paypal, I can transfer it to my bank account and withdraw it from an ATM, or use it to buy stocks, or donate it to some organization that doesn't take Apple Pay payments...

[Dave3of5]

> Apple Cash services are provided by Green Dot Bank

Never heard of Green Dot Bank. They seem to have these banks listed under them:

"GO2bank, GoBank and Bonneville Bank".

I assume that Green Dot Bank isn't holding the money itself but passing it on to a bigger bank. Anyone know who's actually behind this ?

Edit: I think maybe Green Dot is holding the money themselves on this are they a well known bank in the USA ?

[tcmb]

The link to the 'Apple Cash setup support page' is a 307 temporary redirect to the Apple Pay page for me. Not sure if this is due to locale, I don't have Apple Cash in my Apple Wallet settings as well...

[bpve]

Isn't this just the same as a virtual pre-paid credit card, which every bank offers nowadays? Except, perhaps this will allow Apple to take our money and use it to invest.

[Angostura]

Launched 2019. Still no sign of it in the UK