I've been evaluating Kagi for a couple weeks, I'm liking it, but today I'm completely sold. I've been doing a niche, technical search this morning: trying to figure out if Emacs and TRAMP can be made to work with flatpak-spawn.
Google returned a ton of unrelated posts and I had to tell it to stop ignoring my search terms. Kagi returned the only relevant page: a comment on a Github issue that Google wasn't able to find, and no other fluff, because that particular combination of words doesn't exist anywhere else on the Internet.
In other words, Google lies and paraphrases your search to return as much results as possible, usually not very relevant, while Kagi respects my search terms and can surface very niche pages. 2022 Google makes the Internet feel very small.
I've test driven Brave Search for months as well, and this is my personal ranking, from best to worst: Kagi > Brave Search = Google Search > DDG.
> But it costs us about $1 to process 80 searches.
> At $10/month, the price does not even cover our cost for average use, and we are basically betting that average use will go down a bit with time because during beta people may be searching more than normal
Oh. I'd say that if I switched to Kagi as to the main search engine, I would increase the number of searches I make. And I definitely do many dozens a day. Their reported beta-testers usage is 30 / day. At their current expense level, that would be $116.25 / mo.
I wonder how can this be sustainable. Maybe they expect a large number of paying users who do 2-3 searches a day.
They can change the model later, add caching, improve performance, and use better hardware. Just getting a native search engine off the ground is impressive.
They may be running a flask app reading data direct from s3 feeding through a giant ML model right now - which wouldn't be the application architecture they'd use if they served 100x the traffic.
I would think that this cost metric will change to their benefit with scale. Lots of constant factors go into these calculations that are significant when you are small-ish but become insignificant when you scale enough
Awesome, I've been using kagi for a couple months now, and it's been awesome! I love thee ability to open internet archive quickly or bump the ranking of certain sites.
I am still a little confused about the pricing situation though. As I understand you guys plan to offer "free with limited usage" and a paid 10$/month unlimited use plan. But I can't seem to find any information on what the "limits" are? I do not have any insights on how much running a search engine costs, but 10$ a month seems quite high for most users. I really like the flat pricing model though.
Another issue I feel like that largely goes unnoticed is, privacy in incognito mode, if I use kagi in incognito, all my searches are associated with my "account", even worse for some people their payment information!, which is something I'm just not comfortable with.
EDIT:
So I thought about it a little, and I'd say 10$ a month is probably worth it (to me)! Just for the features and search result quality. Considering how much of a value a search engine has in my life. I was initially skeptical if it would cost them THAT much. But I see it from a different perspective now.
I would still not use Kagi for private searches though, and that's just me. Privacy is something I would rather trust someone without my full name with, that just my opinion though.
As for the incognito side I'm not convinced it's any less connected than switching to Incognito and searching with your normal search provider. Yeah, the sign in info is explicitly sent but it's not like Google et al don't know it's you just because you didn't send the sign in info. If you're worried about that threat vector (your search engine tracking you when they say they won't) I'd use a different than your normal search engine through something like TOR.
Been using Kagi for a few months now and, unlike when I used DDG, it's rare that I feel the need to fall back to Google.
I guess now is where we see if Kagi's model can actually work. Will people pay money for a search engine when all other major players in the space don't transact with users in cash? I definitely hope for their success!
The only time I've felt the need to use Google instead of Kagi was earlier today when they were having service disruptions. Apart from that and some searches that take a little longer, Kagi has been indistinguishable from Google as a default search. I'm very impressed.
I've dropped back to Google simply for comparison purposes a few times, and the Kagi results are better virtually every time. The only exception is when you get one of those very convenient quick result thingys that google has for like sports results and stuff.
> unlike when I used DDG, it's rare that I feel the need to fall back to Google.
Same here. I have now been using Kagi for about 6 weeks. While using DDG for many years (at least 9, probably over 10) I built up an automatic response: When the results aren't what I want and it doesn't seem to be a problem with my query, I add !g and expect better results on the other side. A week or two ago, while doing exactly that, I realized that my expectation for better results has disappeared. I'm now slowly learning not to do it at all.
Been using Kagi too. Search results are pretty decent, and sometimes better. Problem is that I need Google almost exclusively for shopping and price comparison. Wonder if there's any other websites that can replicate this (non-US).
> We care deeply about privacy. We will be good stewards of any personal information you share with us (we do not ask for any apart from your email address which can be any email really). We do not log or associate searches with an account, because we do not want or need to. More details in our privacy policy.
Is there a way to pay the fee anonymously? I am not interested in linking my search history to my real name, no matter how much the provider claims to deeply care about my privacy. If not, this service simply does not exist for me.
"We care deeply about privacy" until we succeed, then we will be bought by, say, Microsoft, which has sucky search engine and then we will write to you a long letter starting with traditional "it was wonderful journey..." but, for now, so long and thanks for all the fish. MS will have all your data plus search history attached, but, no worries, you will get free (for 3 months) pro Linkedin account!
And yes, you are guessing right, we will link your Linekedin account with Kagi one and future employers will have access to your search history, isn't that a cool idea?
I've been using Kagi for about three weeks and the experience has been excellent. I think I reverted to Google maybe twice, and for many searches Kagi has been simply better.
Despite all of this, 10 bucks a month is a tough sell to me. I understand the cost structure, and I am not saying that this product is not something worth paying for, because it is. It feels like the golden age of Google, and that's what I've been looking for.
But there are many other things I could spend 10 bucks a month on, and get much more value from it. I think the problem is that subscriptions as a funding model have such a limited runway for each person, and very quickly you start having to compete against not only other products in the same category (search engines here), but other subscription services. The value you provide not only has to beat Google, but also Netflix, Bitwarden, my email domain and email service, the VPS I'm hosting a few services on and a few other bits and bobs I'm subscribed to. When it comes down to it, I only have so many dollars I can allocate for subscriptions a month, and I don't think Kagi, excellent as it is, will make that cut.
I agree, it's very hard to get me to subscribe to anything, but Kagi managed to do it.
I think the business model can be pretty good, if you are just aiming to build a sustainable business and not a billion dollar venture.
It might be useful for Kagi to look into business/family model that 1Password has. If you have the 1Password business account, you also get the family subscription. One could argue it makes sense for company to pay for Kagi since taking away the ads from the result page makes people more focused on the task and boosts productivity.
Kagi will likely remain a niche product for those who really care about search quality since it will never be able to catch up to google in convenience or integration, etc. That almost by definition limits maximum addressable market to a small fraction of the population. So it makes sense to price it at a premium, or on a per search basis.
Some power users could in fact be money losers for Kagi even at $10 USD/month so moving to usage billing is
probably more likely as it gets greater traction among that crowd.
> The value you provide not only has to beat Google, but also Netflix, Bitwarden...
It's hard to compare the intrinsic value of all services that cost ~10$. Is the ability to search the whole Internet, something you do every single day multiple times, less valuable than watching Netflix shows a few hours every week? Our perceptive is seriously skewed because we've had free (paid with ads+data) web search engines for almost as long as we've had the web. On the other hand, Netflix seems incredibly cheap because for a long time before it, legal access to movies and series was expensive and hard/impossible due to strong copyright laws.
I have no reasons to doubt privacy statements but it rubs me the wrong way that I'm identifying myself by name to use search engine that's supposed not to track me.
The requirement for an account also makes ad-hoc searching on whatever device/browser/profile tricky.
> You should pay for your search engine to ensure that the incentives of the information provider are aligned with what’s best for you, not what’s best for the advertisers.
DDG tends to show some search term-related ads but those seem quite harmless and aren't loaded from 3rd party sites.
> We care deeply about privacy.
Worthless statement. And quite annoying since most vendors start their privacy policies with similar calming statement which multiple paragraphs later is followed by "we'll give your data to advertisers"
That being said, Kagi looks interesting and I'll consider paying to try it out.
EDIT: media are loaded from AWS and browser sends a kagi_session cookie while grabbing them. kagi.com itself seems to be hosted on GCP. How am I supposed to trust any privacy assurances with this setup?
This. For me, it feels wrong entering my name and credit card details to be able to have a more private search experience. Especially since alternatives like SearX or You.com are at least as good as Kagi and don't have such requirements.
> DDG tends to show some search term-related ads but those seem quite harmless and aren't loaded from 3rd party sites.
Disclaimer, I work for Ecosia, but I have to agree. The one moment when I'm totally fine with seeing some ads is when I'm actually actively searching for something to buy and those ads are relevant to my query. What I don't want is my search queries in one site to stalk me around the whole web. Pretty much only disable uBlock in Ecosia and DDG.
Founder here, it was quite a journey very excited to be launching beta today with payments. The idea of paying for web search was unimaginable three years ago when we started this.
Point of feedback for your consideration, I was surprised that Orion+ did not include source code. Binary-only releases seem to me an enemy of both privacy and tinkering, and represent a showstopper for the (admittedly likely quite narrow) segment of possible customers I personify. Open source is mentioned aspirationally in the FAQ; however, I don't personally need a FOSS license, just an individual right to read, modify, and rebuild for personal use, and that's something I value - as in, willing to pay for.
I just want to say thank you, I think I’ve only opted to use Google a handful of times since I started using Kagi for work (software eng).
I always thought that JetBrains IDEs were the only products that raised my professional productivity so much that they were worth paying for, but now Kagi will join that club.
What makes processing searches so expensive? I see elsewhere in this forum that it’s $1/80 searches. I’m just curious what part of your infra is costing you so much.
Any plans to revisit the pricing? I've in the Kagi beta for months and it's way better than DDG, but it's hard to justify US$120/year when Google is free.
I was going to say that unfortunately Vimium, Dark Reader, and 1Password support are non-negotiable, but the browser evidently has its own built-in dark mode, and they claim to support both Chrome and Firefox extensions as well?
I'm happy to provide non-Chromium traffic from either Firefox or something else; I'm increasingly running into things (often corporatey things) that only work in Chrome.
It also sounds like they use your icloud for syncing things like bookmarks and sharing tabs and use the built-in password manager, so if you're Apple-only this is a great fit. I hope the tab sharing will be more reliable than Firefox's has been.
Waiting until I can brew install, but looks promising.
Unfortunately 1Password doesn't work. Not because of extension compatibility but seemingly because 1Password has an internal whitelist of trusted browsers that Orion is not included in. It's really unfortunate as there's been a community forum post about it for months[1], but it's never been addressed.
Dark Reader has worked perfectly fine for me though.
It's refreshing to see more stuff using WebKit and not Blink / Chromium! Will definitely give this a go
/EDIT: this looks, feels and acts exactly like Safari. Feels like I'm just using Safari with a little bit of extra on the top, is that what this is or is everything re-implemented to look like Safari?
Also sad to see Safari extensions not supported. It's super cool to have chrome/firefox extension support, but Safari has some really nice things as well
> Why use Orion instead of Safari?
> Safari is truly one of the best browsers you can use on macOS, and we’re grateful to Apple for creating such a solid foundation. By basing Orion on Safari’s tech stack, then adding productivity enhancements such as built-in ad-blocking, Orion can provide users with exactly what they need.
> You want speed? Orion is currently the fastest Mac browser out there. We built a snappy, lightweight browser around Safari’s WebKit engine to accelerate your web experience.
> Orion is fast
> What about privacy? Orion is a true zero-telemetry browser, with a powerful built-in ad and tracking blocker. Even with its default settings, Orion offers the highest possible privacy protection on the web.
> And extensions! Unlike Safari, Orion has native support for both Chrome and Firefox extensions. This gives our users access to the largest extensions ecosystem in the world. With Orion, you can one-click install your favorite extensions directly from the web.
/EDIT2: Extension support is still a bit wonky. Sometimes the chrome version works, sometimes it doesn't and I have to use the Firefox variant, sometimes neither work
> /EDIT2: Extension support is still a bit wonky. Sometimes the chrome version works, sometimes it doesn't and I have to use the Firefox variant, sometimes neither work
then I wish Orion has an updated compatible extension list
I'm very happy to see that Kagi is succeeding! I've been using it for about 3 months and I can concur with others that the search results are superb, on par with or above in quality of Google's. This is an impressive feat! And the ability to down- or upvote sites in the search results makes it even better. During my testing I only resorted to checking Google less than a dozen times and each time I concluded that Google doesn't have better results either.
As far as the cost go, I hoped for a lower figure but based on my experience it does worth $10/mo without a doubt! I trust Vlad has done the math properly on the costs and as an IT guy, I know that it's far from free to provide such service. And, on the benefit side: good quality search results saves you time, lets you find the correct solution rather than going down a rabbit hole. And without ads you are less likely to click on a spam or scam link.
But, of course, everybody's situation and priorities are different. An ad, spam, scam and privacy violation free search engine might not be as valuable to you as to me or others. Then you can simply use any of the other ad-supported search engines. I think the price is quite reasonable and in alignment with the costs of providing the service. And it's likely that as the user base grows and more and more search result caching opportunity will be available and the costs will come down. It's a new and pioneering approach which I think will give us a very valuable alternative to the current, declining quality search engines.
I also agree with Vlad on concentrating on quality and sustainability, rather than lightning fast expansion of the user base. This approach is a lot better in the long term and would help it to stay independent of other influences. With that said I'm really hoping that Kagi will stay clear of getting merged with some big tech company and its core values getting twisted along with that. That's another reason to put some user support behind to help Kagi make it.
Here is a concern that I have with kagi... Let's say I want to search for something privately. I can VPN and use private mode, and it would be extremely hard to link that search to me. Definitely not in an NSA style dragnet, someone must be tracking me personally to know what I search for. But with a search engine requiring payment it's super easy to deanonymize everyone in single swoop. And if it can be done, it will be done. Ironically, bing and google can be much more private than this engine if used properly
I've been using Kagi for a while now(maybe 2-3 months iirc), and it's been a great experience. I've hopped between 4[0] search engines in the past year, and I've finally found one that works really well, is private, and does what I need it to do. My thanks to the Kagi team for delivering a great experience, I've enabled my premium account. 100% worth it for me.
Been using Kagi Search as my daily driver for a few months now and am really happy with the experience. Also the founder is very active within the community, responds to every message, implements a lot of suggestions. Happy to pay and hope that the project works out.
Happy to see they changed their pricing model. Previously it was something like $6/mo for 80 searches or something like that, which made it a non-starter for me. Honestly, I'd likely be willing to pay more than $10/mo for unlimited use assuming I'm satisfied with the quality of its results, but a pay-per-use model would trigger a "I'm paying for this search" thought every time I go to run a search and that small amount of friction would kind of ruin the product for me even if I ended up paying a bit less that way.
Looking forward to trying it out with this new pricing model.
Been in the beta for quite a while now and have been thoroughly impressed. Very, very rarely do I have to fall back to Google search (mostly for image search, which can occasionally be a little lacking in Kagi).
$10 isn't a small hurdle to get people over, but I really hope you can make it work; I'd love for Kagi to succeed.
I'm not that interested in paying to protect my data (I think that battle is forever lost).
But the results are simply way better than anything else I've tried.
It was probably one of the easiest purchasing decisions I ever made. I really don't understand the comments about this being expensive from HackerNews folks, who I assume use search quite a bit.
Just do some math, check how long you spend looking for stuff with google, dealing with SEO spam, unable to blacklist domains (and even if you do it client-side, you need to constantly keep updating your list), lost time due to not being easy to perform language-specific searches (with kagi, my other languages are a dropwdown away).
Then factor in the amount you spend frustrated with other more subjective things. One thing that bothers me is the political bias of the results (among other things), piracy censorship, etc, but for you it might be something else.
If I had to ask something from Kagi, though, is to be careful about this part from their FAQ:
> Some results from traditional sources will reflect biases
This concept of favouring "traditional sources" (authoritative sources in google language) is a major red flag for me. But I'm not sure this is what your FAQ means. If I noticed anything too overt like I do with google, I would drop kagi the second another alternative with the same search quality shows up.
Overall, thank you for building a great product and service. I am recommending kagi to everyone I know.
[+] [-] sph|3 years ago|reply
Google returned a ton of unrelated posts and I had to tell it to stop ignoring my search terms. Kagi returned the only relevant page: a comment on a Github issue that Google wasn't able to find, and no other fluff, because that particular combination of words doesn't exist anywhere else on the Internet.
In other words, Google lies and paraphrases your search to return as much results as possible, usually not very relevant, while Kagi respects my search terms and can surface very niche pages. 2022 Google makes the Internet feel very small.
I've test driven Brave Search for months as well, and this is my personal ranking, from best to worst: Kagi > Brave Search = Google Search > DDG.
[+] [-] richardsocher|3 years ago|reply
looks very strong too. github issue is the top results also. would love to hear what you think. we're focused especially on developers.
[+] [-] PausGreat|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nine_k|3 years ago|reply
> At $10/month, the price does not even cover our cost for average use, and we are basically betting that average use will go down a bit with time because during beta people may be searching more than normal
Oh. I'd say that if I switched to Kagi as to the main search engine, I would increase the number of searches I make. And I definitely do many dozens a day. Their reported beta-testers usage is 30 / day. At their current expense level, that would be $116.25 / mo.
I wonder how can this be sustainable. Maybe they expect a large number of paying users who do 2-3 searches a day.
[+] [-] freediver|3 years ago|reply
30 searches/day comes to around $11/mo. We expect the quantity of usage will drop with time because
a) we make a better product that helps you find stuff more quickly (so quality of usage goes up)
b) lot of users are still searching more then normal because of novelty of product, testing etc.
Of course we could be wrong :)
[+] [-] lumost|3 years ago|reply
They may be running a flask app reading data direct from s3 feeding through a giant ML model right now - which wouldn't be the application architecture they'd use if they served 100x the traffic.
[+] [-] theK|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Anunayj|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Anunayj|3 years ago|reply
Another issue I feel like that largely goes unnoticed is, privacy in incognito mode, if I use kagi in incognito, all my searches are associated with my "account", even worse for some people their payment information!, which is something I'm just not comfortable with.
EDIT:
So I thought about it a little, and I'd say 10$ a month is probably worth it (to me)! Just for the features and search result quality. Considering how much of a value a search engine has in my life. I was initially skeptical if it would cost them THAT much. But I see it from a different perspective now.
I would still not use Kagi for private searches though, and that's just me. Privacy is something I would rather trust someone without my full name with, that just my opinion though.
[+] [-] zamadatix|3 years ago|reply
As for the incognito side I'm not convinced it's any less connected than switching to Incognito and searching with your normal search provider. Yeah, the sign in info is explicitly sent but it's not like Google et al don't know it's you just because you didn't send the sign in info. If you're worried about that threat vector (your search engine tracking you when they say they won't) I'd use a different than your normal search engine through something like TOR.
[+] [-] richardsocher|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ziml77|3 years ago|reply
I guess now is where we see if Kagi's model can actually work. Will people pay money for a search engine when all other major players in the space don't transact with users in cash? I definitely hope for their success!
[+] [-] function_seven|3 years ago|reply
I haven't yet done that with Kagi.
I just entered my CC details into Kagi (using Orion, natch). I hope more people follow suit. I really want this model to succeed.
[+] [-] DangitBobby|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomtheelder|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jorams|3 years ago|reply
Same here. I have now been using Kagi for about 6 weeks. While using DDG for many years (at least 9, probably over 10) I built up an automatic response: When the results aren't what I want and it doesn't seem to be a problem with my query, I add !g and expect better results on the other side. A week or two ago, while doing exactly that, I realized that my expectation for better results has disappeared. I'm now slowly learning not to do it at all.
[+] [-] albatrosstrophy|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spurgu|3 years ago|reply
Yup, the only queries I turn to Google for nowadays are for non-English.
[+] [-] ls15|3 years ago|reply
Is there a way to pay the fee anonymously? I am not interested in linking my search history to my real name, no matter how much the provider claims to deeply care about my privacy. If not, this service simply does not exist for me.
[+] [-] piokoch|3 years ago|reply
And yes, you are guessing right, we will link your Linekedin account with Kagi one and future employers will have access to your search history, isn't that a cool idea?
[+] [-] iamjbn|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 5evOX5hTZ9mYa9E|3 years ago|reply
Despite all of this, 10 bucks a month is a tough sell to me. I understand the cost structure, and I am not saying that this product is not something worth paying for, because it is. It feels like the golden age of Google, and that's what I've been looking for.
But there are many other things I could spend 10 bucks a month on, and get much more value from it. I think the problem is that subscriptions as a funding model have such a limited runway for each person, and very quickly you start having to compete against not only other products in the same category (search engines here), but other subscription services. The value you provide not only has to beat Google, but also Netflix, Bitwarden, my email domain and email service, the VPS I'm hosting a few services on and a few other bits and bobs I'm subscribed to. When it comes down to it, I only have so many dollars I can allocate for subscriptions a month, and I don't think Kagi, excellent as it is, will make that cut.
[+] [-] jpalomaki|3 years ago|reply
I think the business model can be pretty good, if you are just aiming to build a sustainable business and not a billion dollar venture.
It might be useful for Kagi to look into business/family model that 1Password has. If you have the 1Password business account, you also get the family subscription. One could argue it makes sense for company to pay for Kagi since taking away the ads from the result page makes people more focused on the task and boosts productivity.
[+] [-] MichaelZuo|3 years ago|reply
Some power users could in fact be money losers for Kagi even at $10 USD/month so moving to usage billing is probably more likely as it gets greater traction among that crowd.
[+] [-] toper-centage|3 years ago|reply
It's hard to compare the intrinsic value of all services that cost ~10$. Is the ability to search the whole Internet, something you do every single day multiple times, less valuable than watching Netflix shows a few hours every week? Our perceptive is seriously skewed because we've had free (paid with ads+data) web search engines for almost as long as we've had the web. On the other hand, Netflix seems incredibly cheap because for a long time before it, legal access to movies and series was expensive and hard/impossible due to strong copyright laws.
[+] [-] hericium|3 years ago|reply
The requirement for an account also makes ad-hoc searching on whatever device/browser/profile tricky.
> You should pay for your search engine to ensure that the incentives of the information provider are aligned with what’s best for you, not what’s best for the advertisers.
DDG tends to show some search term-related ads but those seem quite harmless and aren't loaded from 3rd party sites.
> We care deeply about privacy.
Worthless statement. And quite annoying since most vendors start their privacy policies with similar calming statement which multiple paragraphs later is followed by "we'll give your data to advertisers"
That being said, Kagi looks interesting and I'll consider paying to try it out.
EDIT: media are loaded from AWS and browser sends a kagi_session cookie while grabbing them. kagi.com itself seems to be hosted on GCP. How am I supposed to trust any privacy assurances with this setup?
[+] [-] april_22|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lopis|3 years ago|reply
Disclaimer, I work for Ecosia, but I have to agree. The one moment when I'm totally fine with seeing some ads is when I'm actually actively searching for something to buy and those ads are relevant to my query. What I don't want is my search queries in one site to stalk me around the whole web. Pretty much only disable uBlock in Ecosia and DDG.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] freediver|3 years ago|reply
AMA!
[+] [-] inopinatus|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skrtskrt|3 years ago|reply
I always thought that JetBrains IDEs were the only products that raised my professional productivity so much that they were worth paying for, but now Kagi will join that club.
[+] [-] ashton314|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thematrixturtle|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DavideNL|3 years ago|reply
So, i'm hoping for an alternative/smaller payment option where i can pay based on actual consumption as shown on https://kagi.com/pricing
I have been using Kagi for a few months, and i would definitely recommend it, it has great potential!
[+] [-] kbd|3 years ago|reply
I'm happy to provide non-Chromium traffic from either Firefox or something else; I'm increasingly running into things (often corporatey things) that only work in Chrome.
It also sounds like they use your icloud for syncing things like bookmarks and sharing tabs and use the built-in password manager, so if you're Apple-only this is a great fit. I hope the tab sharing will be more reliable than Firefox's has been.
Waiting until I can brew install, but looks promising.
[+] [-] nyc640|3 years ago|reply
Dark Reader has worked perfectly fine for me though.
[1] https://1password.community/discussion/124112/support-for-or...
[+] [-] dmix|3 years ago|reply
Orion warns that the support for web extensions is experimental. But this so far I love the idea of this browser.
[+] [-] artdigital|3 years ago|reply
/EDIT: this looks, feels and acts exactly like Safari. Feels like I'm just using Safari with a little bit of extra on the top, is that what this is or is everything re-implemented to look like Safari?
Also sad to see Safari extensions not supported. It's super cool to have chrome/firefox extension support, but Safari has some really nice things as well
> Why use Orion instead of Safari?
> Safari is truly one of the best browsers you can use on macOS, and we’re grateful to Apple for creating such a solid foundation. By basing Orion on Safari’s tech stack, then adding productivity enhancements such as built-in ad-blocking, Orion can provide users with exactly what they need.
> You want speed? Orion is currently the fastest Mac browser out there. We built a snappy, lightweight browser around Safari’s WebKit engine to accelerate your web experience.
> Orion is fast
> What about privacy? Orion is a true zero-telemetry browser, with a powerful built-in ad and tracking blocker. Even with its default settings, Orion offers the highest possible privacy protection on the web.
> And extensions! Unlike Safari, Orion has native support for both Chrome and Firefox extensions. This gives our users access to the largest extensions ecosystem in the world. With Orion, you can one-click install your favorite extensions directly from the web.
/EDIT2: Extension support is still a bit wonky. Sometimes the chrome version works, sometimes it doesn't and I have to use the Firefox variant, sometimes neither work
Looks very promising though
[+] [-] jostyee|3 years ago|reply
then I wish Orion has an updated compatible extension list
[+] [-] lacikawiz|3 years ago|reply
As far as the cost go, I hoped for a lower figure but based on my experience it does worth $10/mo without a doubt! I trust Vlad has done the math properly on the costs and as an IT guy, I know that it's far from free to provide such service. And, on the benefit side: good quality search results saves you time, lets you find the correct solution rather than going down a rabbit hole. And without ads you are less likely to click on a spam or scam link.
But, of course, everybody's situation and priorities are different. An ad, spam, scam and privacy violation free search engine might not be as valuable to you as to me or others. Then you can simply use any of the other ad-supported search engines. I think the price is quite reasonable and in alignment with the costs of providing the service. And it's likely that as the user base grows and more and more search result caching opportunity will be available and the costs will come down. It's a new and pioneering approach which I think will give us a very valuable alternative to the current, declining quality search engines.
I also agree with Vlad on concentrating on quality and sustainability, rather than lightning fast expansion of the user base. This approach is a lot better in the long term and would help it to stay independent of other influences. With that said I'm really hoping that Kagi will stay clear of getting merged with some big tech company and its core values getting twisted along with that. That's another reason to put some user support behind to help Kagi make it.
[+] [-] elktea|3 years ago|reply
edit: just paid, it came to about $15AUD after bank conversion fees which is about the price of a streaming service here.
[+] [-] kova12|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anotherhue|3 years ago|reply
Now I miss Kagi whenever I don't have it. It's boring in the best possible way. Looking forward to paying for it so it'll stick around.
Congratulations Kagi team!
[+] [-] mrHedgehog|3 years ago|reply
[0]: Ecosia -> DDG -> Brave Search -> Kagi
[+] [-] awooo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pr8dan|3 years ago|reply
2) How about a family package (I would like to convert my family members but that will add up costs quite a bit)
[+] [-] talim|3 years ago|reply
Looking forward to trying it out with this new pricing model.
[+] [-] emmo|3 years ago|reply
$10 isn't a small hurdle to get people over, but I really hope you can make it work; I'd love for Kagi to succeed.
[+] [-] Fidelix|3 years ago|reply
But the results are simply way better than anything else I've tried. It was probably one of the easiest purchasing decisions I ever made. I really don't understand the comments about this being expensive from HackerNews folks, who I assume use search quite a bit.
Just do some math, check how long you spend looking for stuff with google, dealing with SEO spam, unable to blacklist domains (and even if you do it client-side, you need to constantly keep updating your list), lost time due to not being easy to perform language-specific searches (with kagi, my other languages are a dropwdown away).
Then factor in the amount you spend frustrated with other more subjective things. One thing that bothers me is the political bias of the results (among other things), piracy censorship, etc, but for you it might be something else.
If I had to ask something from Kagi, though, is to be careful about this part from their FAQ:
> Some results from traditional sources will reflect biases
This concept of favouring "traditional sources" (authoritative sources in google language) is a major red flag for me. But I'm not sure this is what your FAQ means. If I noticed anything too overt like I do with google, I would drop kagi the second another alternative with the same search quality shows up.
Overall, thank you for building a great product and service. I am recommending kagi to everyone I know.