[talove]

I am affected by this. I own 4 bikes, all with electronic shifting and 3 hammerhead computers.

This isn't just losing nice-to-have features, many of these features are for safety.

One example, the thumb toggles on the Di2 shifters allow me to change screens on my computer without removing my hands from the hoods / grips. They is now disabled. If you are descending at 40-50mph you have to remove your hand from your hood in order to see your map.

This might seem minor but the point is that cycling is already super dangerous. The tech is there for safety as much as anything else. I find this incredibly anti-cyclist and anti-consumer.

[jfengel]

I take your point, but there is no way on God's green earth that I am going to look at a map for even an instant while descending that fast. My eyes are locked on the ground scanning for the tiniest crack or piece of junk that would send me to my doom.

I can't imagine going any direction except straight at that speed.

[Brian_K_White]

Good habits is orthoganal to good equipment.

Sure you should maybe not try to look at a map except at certain times and not certain other times.

Yeah, and, shit happens. Life is messy. Cycling is inherently chaotic and your own input merely helps.

I don't see "you shouldn't do that" as a good excuse for "your equipment doesn't have to, but by choice, it helps kill you if you don't always do everything perfectly" not to mention, the danger from removing a hand from bars is not even remotely limited to 50mph hills.

You shouldn't put your hand into the table saw, AND table saws have guards.

[deebosong]

Can I echo this sentiment?

I also understand the frustration of losing key features... But yeah, I don't wanna be near anyone peepin down on their map while blasting down a descent at 40-50 mph lol. You better be laser focused on everything in your peripheral and immediate field of view, and look at all the data/ metrics/ navigation after the fact.

[talove]

In popular road cycling areas, things like 10+ mile descents aren't unusual. Momentarily glances at the map is how you know you need to slow down.

As an example, search YouTube for a video of someone descending a road in the Santa Monica mountains.

[farski]

There are a bunch of features on Karoo that will show or indicate turns regardless of which screen you're on. As jfengel said, if you're going 50mph you should know where you're going and not looking at your computer. The other things being removed (battery level, gear indicator, shift mode) represent no realistic safety concerns.

I'm annoyed that I'm losing these features, too, but they are all firmly in the nice-to-have category. Just like bike computers in their entirety.

[frankhhhhhhhhh]

The reason to have a map on screen when descending is to anticipate upcoming bends. This helps you to take the best line through the apex of the corners. Also mountain descents will regularly throw you very tight, and sometimes blind corners at random, and the best practice to handle these without going off the road is to brake hard enough to scrub off some speed before you begin your turn, then let go so you're not braking while turning. Navigation prompts will not show this because they are not turns.

[talove]

Following up to add some context to this since it struck a lot of debate. I feel very matter of factly that the assistance of a bike computer when used responsibly increases rider safety. All of the debate seems very semantic but look at a video such as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AUTiwocccE

This is a 10-mile descent that thousands of cyclists do a weekly that would put you at 30-50mph for most of it. You can very obviously safely glance at your bike computer from time to time to see things like your speed, sharpness of upcoming curves, angles, upcoming obstacles, intersections, merges, and other important metrics that help inform your braking, turning and mental route preparation.

I've been road cycling and racing for many years. Taken many safety and skills courses. The most dangerous experiences I've ever had have been from incidents where glancing at a map would have prevented. Where I was riding moderately paced and unanticipated obstacles were around corners such as blind intersections.

Having laser focus on the road AND knowing what's ahead where you can't visually see are both equally important.

[contravariant]

I can probably guess the answer to this question, but it's an important question to ask.

Why don't you simply not update the firmware?

[E39M5S62]

They release bug fixes and new features every two weeks. You'd have to weigh never getting those again to keep your Shimano Di2 integrations.

[skeeter2020]

It's kind of funny that you think removing features from a cycling computer is the dangerous part, when we know from pretty much every other situation involving potentially dangerous tasks and computers it's the introduction of the device in the first place that creates most of the danger. Why would you even glance at a map while going 50 miles per hour on a bicycle?

[6510]

To see if you might die in the next corner.

[elbigbad]

In what seems like a lucky break, I also have a Karoo, used these same features, and moved from di2 to campagnolo electric last summer.

[julenx]

> If you are descending at 40-50mph you have to remove your hand from your hood in order to see your map.

Well you don't have to, you can switch to the map screen before starting the descent. If you are willing to change screens while descending, the blame on safety is not on technology, but rather on your own decision to do so.

[ajdude]

I really hope you meant 40-50kph, because this feels incredibly fast on a bicycle. I try to avoid that if I can help it

[notesinthefield]

No, 40-50 mph happens often on a long decent. It's extremely exhilarating, dangerous and always takes a lot of focus.

[mauvehaus]

I've hit 45mph going down Tioga Pass towing a BOB trailer while touring[0]. Doing it on an unladen road bike would not be a big deal for a high level road cyclist on a good road surface.

[0] BOB's recommended top speed is 25 mph, for the record.

[ubermonkey]

S/he does not. 50MPH is entirely plausible on even a relatively short alpine descent.

[323]

Check out this video, 100 kph descent in a competition:

https://youtu.be/I4aMTp6-WKU?t=23

[incahoots]

It's difficult to believe this was going to continue on wards as SRAM bought Hammerhead, it was only a matter of time before Shimano decided not to support a competitor product.

[matsemann]

The thing is that Shimano doesn't have to do anything to support the competing product. They're just broadcasting signals on Ant+. It's Hammerhead doing the integration, and now shimano actively blocking that.

[Melatonic]

So are people going to keep everything on older versions to try to keep this functionality?

[1-more]

Hammerhead has only made two models of computer, right? Why do you have three?

[PLenz]

The correct number of bikes or bike thingies is always n+1

[pharmakom]

Cycling is not super dangerous, statistically speaking.

However, your situation sucks and I hope a work-around is found.