Being against vaccines as a concept is ridiculous, yes. But let me tell you something about corona vaccines in Scandinavia: We started vaccinating our health care employees with J&J and AZ a year+ ago. Quickly, it was discovered that up to 10 nurses had died in all of Scandinavia and likely more, due to extreme strokes completely unexpected at their age and well being. Very quickly the AZ was completely outlawed in Denmark, and J&J put on hold for 4 months before becoming a sign-up only, "wave my rights" vaccine.
This was a decision by DOCTORS. Meanwhile, I read HN and reddit et al. and what do I see? That AZ and J&J vaccines are totally safe and they ban all other comments for "misinformation". What gives?
I am not against vaccinations but I don't like your comment at all.
You also just have an opinion like everyone else.
When you listen to scientists you will understand it's much more complicated than you are saying.
Take a scientist like Geert Vanden Bossche. He really is a very big name in the world of vaccinations. But he has been warning us that vaccinating everyone during an pandemic of a fast mutating virus is a really bad decision.
A huge problem of the 21st century is that everyone feels like they have a right to tell everyone else what they must do. It's fine to listen to scientists and care about others. My goodness. So tired.
How can we know when scientists are compromised? The scientists who pushed the idea that sugar was good for you and a good substitute for fat or that bread is the foundation to a healthy diet was not that long ago.
Personally, I have lost significant amounts of trust in the ‘peer-reviewed’ articles being pushed today. MSM will use cherry picked articles or doctors to push their agenda.
Also, here is a previous post from Nov 2020 discussing vaccines being required for employees to. I am sharing hoping others will find the discussions as interesting as I do.
> I'm truly sick of seeing people throwing a fit over vaccines.
Only over certain vaccines in this case. Vaccines which have not undergone the normal testing but which have been pushed into use and mandated without stringent safety checks.
> They're safe
These vaccines are not proven to be as safe as most other vaccines
> effective
These vaccines have not proven to be as effective as promised
> and protect others
These vaccines do not protect against infection - there are indications that those who received the 'booster' dose have a higher rate of infection compared to those from the same cohorts who did not receive 'boosters' - and as such do not protect others.
> People need to stop being such babies over this
There are several laws which mandate bodily integrity, there are whole protest movements which loudly proclaim 'my body, my choice'. Given the above stated facts of these vaccines not being proven safe, not being nearly as effective as claimed and not protecting others it is a very rational choice to forego vaccination.
> Just get the stupid shot
Go ahead
> A huge problem of the 21st century is that everyone feels like they need to have an opinion
That is what you get in a liberal democracy/constitutional republic, people get to make their own choices. There are several movements which want to do away with these institutions to go/return to some more authoritarian form of control. I do not support those movements and I can only assume that you don't support them either. One person, one vote.
> It's fine to listen to scientists
No, it is not. It is wise to read what 'scientists' - between quotes because the term has taken a beating in the last few decades - produce with a critical [1] eye. Academia can produce the most astounding gobbledygook under the guise of 'science' as was proven (again) by the Grievance studies affair [2,3,4]
> and care about others
Why do you connect 'listen[ing] to scientists' with 'and care for others'? These two are not connected at all.
...
[1] as in 'being critical', not as 'through the lens of critical theory'
The poster was (to my reading) not connecting them, it was a pure conjunction of A and B: as in, "be open to trust" [good luck] and also "be open to an act of giving" (the poster must have assumed that those unvaccinated are selfish and did not consider the good effect of their vaccination on the rest of society).
Of course, others have retracted trust on observational basis or have found other ways to avoid damaging others.
languageserver|3 years ago
This was a decision by DOCTORS. Meanwhile, I read HN and reddit et al. and what do I see? That AZ and J&J vaccines are totally safe and they ban all other comments for "misinformation". What gives?
blenderdt|3 years ago
You also just have an opinion like everyone else.
When you listen to scientists you will understand it's much more complicated than you are saying.
Take a scientist like Geert Vanden Bossche. He really is a very big name in the world of vaccinations. But he has been warning us that vaccinating everyone during an pandemic of a fast mutating virus is a really bad decision.
jacamera|3 years ago
solarhoma|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
mdp2021|3 years ago
Babies are the inexperienced individuals, the others are those who have lived a bit. And they should have different ideas about trust.
solarhoma|3 years ago
Also, here is a previous post from Nov 2020 discussing vaccines being required for employees to. I am sharing hoping others will find the discussions as interesting as I do.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25159579
Ekaros|3 years ago
cr1895|3 years ago
They absolutely are effective at reducing the risk of death or serious illness.
the_third_wave|3 years ago
Only over certain vaccines in this case. Vaccines which have not undergone the normal testing but which have been pushed into use and mandated without stringent safety checks.
> They're safe
These vaccines are not proven to be as safe as most other vaccines
> effective
These vaccines have not proven to be as effective as promised
> and protect others
These vaccines do not protect against infection - there are indications that those who received the 'booster' dose have a higher rate of infection compared to those from the same cohorts who did not receive 'boosters' - and as such do not protect others.
> People need to stop being such babies over this
There are several laws which mandate bodily integrity, there are whole protest movements which loudly proclaim 'my body, my choice'. Given the above stated facts of these vaccines not being proven safe, not being nearly as effective as claimed and not protecting others it is a very rational choice to forego vaccination.
> Just get the stupid shot
Go ahead
> A huge problem of the 21st century is that everyone feels like they need to have an opinion
That is what you get in a liberal democracy/constitutional republic, people get to make their own choices. There are several movements which want to do away with these institutions to go/return to some more authoritarian form of control. I do not support those movements and I can only assume that you don't support them either. One person, one vote.
> It's fine to listen to scientists
No, it is not. It is wise to read what 'scientists' - between quotes because the term has taken a beating in the last few decades - produce with a critical [1] eye. Academia can produce the most astounding gobbledygook under the guise of 'science' as was proven (again) by the Grievance studies affair [2,3,4]
> and care about others
Why do you connect 'listen[ing] to scientists' with 'and care for others'? These two are not connected at all.
...
[1] as in 'being critical', not as 'through the lens of critical theory'
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair
[3] https://areomagazine.com/2018/10/02/academic-grievance-studi...
[4] https://quillette.com/2018/10/01/the-grievance-studies-scand...
mdp2021|3 years ago
The poster was (to my reading) not connecting them, it was a pure conjunction of A and B: as in, "be open to trust" [good luck] and also "be open to an act of giving" (the poster must have assumed that those unvaccinated are selfish and did not consider the good effect of their vaccination on the rest of society).
Of course, others have retracted trust on observational basis or have found other ways to avoid damaging others.
tinus_hn|3 years ago
[deleted]
mdp2021|3 years ago
The new book from Sedaris is titled "Happy-go-lucky", incidentally.
esailija|3 years ago
[deleted]
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]