A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Nintendo would stop sending you that fake cable with your switch, and you would just buy a real one to work with all your devices.
Other people saying "what about innovation!?" That's fine. Let's say the USB consortium releases USB-D with input from Apple, Google, and many other stakeholders. The EU can set another deadline for newly released devices to adhere to the new version instead of the old one. The transition will involve a period of time where older devices are still on C and newer ones on D, which is totally compatible with the regulation and is necessary with or without regulation. It's ludicrous to think companies won't be able to "iterate": you would be crazy to go to market with any cable technology that isn't already very mature. Apple spent years designing lighting chargers because they knew that once they were released they'd be around for a long time (and they have been!)
I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to other matters.
Yeah yeah, "640k should be enough for everybody". There comes a point where that is actually true.
I think this is a stupid thing. Repurposing a commonly used connector for other things to reuse cheap connectors and cables is something that is usually done in the electronic industry (e.g. my oscilloscope use an HDMI socket for the logic analyzer input, you have plenty of lines and the connector is cheap and good). It's not uncommon to design a board and use type-C only for power (5V input, without the circuitry to handle power delivery, so you must connect a suitable power supply) or for other things (TTL serial data).
> Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables
Which spec? There are a multitude of them! What we do, adhere all to the best spec and to only feed 5V power to a device (that could be done with 2 wires) require the same cable used to connect a thunderbolt device at 40Gb/s? Of course not, since the first one costs a couple of dollars, the second one tens of dollars, the first one can be as long as voltage drop permits it to be, the second one needs to be maximum 1 meter, the first one needs no shielding at all, the second one needs to be heavily shielded, that not only increases cost but makes it bulkier. And again, does a data cable that is used for thunderbolt connection (assuming that the thunderbolt device is externally powered) be designed to carry the full 5A of the spec? 5A is a lot of current, it will require bigger conductors, but for a data cable it doesn't make sense!
Type-C is a standard that makes to me not a lot of sense: they wanted to create the one connector that fits all, while in the past they designed different connector, one for each device, not because they wanted you to buy more cables but to avoid confusion in customers, if the cable fits it works I used to say back in the day, the VGA connector was physically different from a serial port, the PS2 connector was not the same as a parallel port, even if they could have done everything with one port they didn't.
“The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves”
I don’t think anyone’s mentioned that. Oh my god, tech social media is going to melt down when that kicks in if the reaction to chargers being excluded is any indication (not to mention a repeat of the shift from 30-pin to Lightning in Apple’s case, except now without a cable).
It's kind of sad to me that Apple doesn't make Lightning an open standard.
In all my years, I haven't had a single Lightning connector fail on me. The solid metal where the contacts reside is just too robust to wear out or get damaged (unless you somehow step on it the right way or let it corrode).
USB-C connectors, on the other hand, seems to loosen after a rather small number mates and de-mates, leading people to use preemptive workarounds such as magnetic connectors.
> Let's say the USB consortium releases USB-D with input from Apple, Google, and many other stakeholders [...]
If you have to make such an argument, you've already lost.
Innovation, particularly disruptive and / or breakthrough innovation, does not happen by committee, no matter how many times over history people tried deluding themselves into thinking that it does.
> Other people saying "what about innovation!?" That's fine. Let's say the USB consortium releases USB-D with input from Apple, Google, and many other stakeholders. The EU can set another deadline for newly released devices to adhere to the new version instead of the old one. The transition will involve a period of time where older devices are still on C and newer ones on D, which is totally compatible with the regulation and is necessary with or without regulation.
If your idea of "innovation" is moving from one version of a spec to another version of the same spec requiring multiple trillion dollar companies and the EU setting a timeline, then your usage of the word is much narrower than mine.
Many advances that I consider truly innovative have often come from outsiders without the backing of the largest companies in the world and succeeded from the bottom up.
1. Cables have radically different capabilities - they may charge at 60W, 100W or 240W ; they may be limited to 480 mbps transmission rates or go all the way up to 40 gbps transmission. Up until now, the market has not regulated such that you can tell the difference when you grab a random cable, or necessarily tell the difference at time of purchase
2. Devices like the Nintendo Switch and Raspberry Pi shipped with broken implementations. For instance, the RPi would not work with cables that _supported_ over 60W charging rates.
I was one of the Nintendo switch commenters in this thread - the problem I have is standardising on the connector without enforcing the underlying standards. This doesn't fix the charging problem or the cable problem, it just means that the all devices fit together, even if they don't actually deliver what they're supposed to.
> and you would just buy a real one to work with all your devices.
Except that could kill your Nintendo switch, and it's not like Nintendo is going to change how their hardware works on something that's already been released to the masses.
Just imagine if this had been done in the 90s, we’d be stuck on VGA cables for all video and wouldn’t have hi-def TV. Strict regulation causes ossification.
No it's not fine, this is just another coercion and consolidation of power where it shouldn't belong. Independent entities cannot innovate on their own because now there's a central apparatus that decides what should be innovated and how, with all the inherent political power struggles of big players, good luck.
EU should be there to set goals, not to dictate implementation.
In essence, they seem to believe that wired charging is mature enough for standardisation but further technologies can be implemented through "Radio Equipment Directive". In the same time, it appears that the wireless charging is unaffected because the tech is new and fast changing, therefore the manufacturers can include whatever wireless charging they see fit.
It really boils down to "No funny cables, why don't you try wireless charging of your liking if USB-C doesn't cut it for you?".
It's just really not clear to me that regulators need to be mandating product design.
I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice.
Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own ports; etc. It was ugly.
Now, pretty much everything is either USB or Lightning. This is good! What problem is the EU solving here?
The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc jack era where you end up with these [0] guys with various tips and dials that all meet the USB-C "standard" for a connector but don't work.
USB-A has been with us for over 20 years. It's only disappearing because of USB-C, and USB-C seems to have room to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if it will still be the most popular connector in 2035, and not just because "legislation stops innovation".
Making sure there are no weird exceptions to a very good port is reasonable and good.
I see a lot of negativity and nitpicking in the comments, and I for one welcome the idea. Wired charging is a mature technology, USB-C is extensible enough, and most manufacturers have already adopted it as a de facto standard. Only Apple seems to be reluctant, and only on their cellphones and perhaps some of their headphones.
The whole discussion reminds me a bit of the similar move the EU did back in 2009: Introduce a (voluntary) common external power supply (Micro-USB).
Now, I feel the same arguments are brought in again.
1) Hinders innovation
2) Lock on a single technology
3) Creates trash by soon obsolete "deprecated" connector types
My bet: 2024 (!) onwards, nearly nobody will be affected by the "downsides".
I want to like this, but I charge my iPhone with a cable that has lightning on one end and USB-C on the other, and I know from extensive direct experience that the lightning end is the better physical design.
Supporting this is tantamount to believing that there will never need to be a USB-D that improves upon USB-C, and I just can’t believe that.
Any technological developments in wired charging can be reflected in a timely adjustment of technical requirements/ specific standards under the Radio Equipment Directive. This would ensure that the technology used is not outdated.
At the same time, the implementation of any new standards in further revisions of Radio Equipment Directive would need to be developed in a harmonised manner, respecting the objectives of full interoperability. Industry is therefore expected to continue the work already undertaken on the standardised interface, led by the USB-IF organisation, in view of developing new interoperable, open and non-controversial solutions.
If there's a better standard in the future the law can be changed, they didn't put this in the constitution.
I've never had a phone with USB-C to compare, but I've had rotten luck with Lightning. I always get that one power pin that blackens and makes the cable unreliable.
The previous standard was Micro-USB (that's why you still see it on dashcams, standalone GPSes, drawing tablets and other devices) and yet, USB-C came to exist.
> I know from extensive direct experience that the lightning end is the better physical design.
What's so great about it? USB-C is just as easy to plug in and these cables usually last longer. The only difference for me is that Lightning eventually ends up with black pins and I have to buy another cable.
Also, is it really worth the few technical advantages if the alternative is a good-enough plug that works with absolutely everything?
What's interesting is that nearly all of my recent electronics purchases have used USB-C.
Headphones, thermal printer, neck-cooler, rechargable screwdriver - all USB-C.
What's weird are the few things which don't. Amazon Alexa use a barrel charger. Brand new HP printer has the old square style USB plug. Pulse Oximeter user micro-USB.
So C is certainly getting there. Appearing in cheap and expensive products. And, I'm happy to say, works well. Just needs a few laggards to update!
USB-C for laptop power ports seems to be incredibly flaky. :-( Let me share my ongoing horror story (excuse the verbosity):
I've got a barely 3-months old Lenovo X1 Carbon (Gen-9) work laptop. A week ago I noticed the battery draining while the power cord is plugged in! Nothing worked: reset via the pinhole at the back, trying out different chargers, BIOS update, charging while the OS (Linux) is shut down, "to eliminate 'rogue' applications". The battery just doesn't charge.
We've got premium support, so a Lenovo technician came two days later and replaced the motherboard. Great! The root cause: USB-C power port got short-circuited somehow. "This is a common problem with USB-C for power ports; I go around replacing 2 motherboards a week," the technician said.
Now, the laptop's new motherboard worked fine for a week ... and I woke up this morning to notice the laptop's battery not charging at all (yes, again!), while the power cord is plugged in. I call up Lenovo, and the support guy confirms: "the power port seems to be short-circuited again, this time let's replace both the motherboard and also the power adapter". FFS, tomorrow morning I have long-distance travel, and I'm left with this bloody brick. Speak of timing.
I want to think this is just plain bad luck, but the Lenovo support forums are full of similar problems, and two other colleagues independently confirmed the same issue. The Lenovo technician blamed this on USB-C. I wish they retained the more robust rectangular power port; but they're phasing them out to comply with EU regulation.
It seems that USB-C for _Lenovo_ laptop power ports seems to be incredibly flaky. I have 2 year-old HP Spectre x360 and a new Framework and I've had no problems with charging either of them from a number of different USB-C cables, wall adapters, and even a power delivery monitor (Dell U2520D).
To me, the ideal solution is something that Apple had for ages, and now them and Microsoft both have. Magsafe. Use a nice, robust, safe laptop charger for most of your workdays, when things are routine and you have control over the environment. Then, if you're going to travel, and need to be ultralight, you carry your GaN compact, high-power travel power adapter with USB-C so you have one charger and one cable for all the things. I don't see why we have to give up magsafe for USB-C when we can have both.
> "this time let's replace both the motherboard and also the power adapter" [...]
> I want to think this is just plain bad luck, but the Lenovo support forums are full of similar problems, and two other colleagues independently confirmed the same issue
Oh no, I have to confirm this too. Had the same issue with my X1 Carbon Gen-9.
They replaced the motherboard (and hopefully the power adapter). At least so far it's
still working after a few months since repair.
> and I'm left with this bloody brick
Did you know you can charge (or at least power) the laptop via the other usb port, next to the power port? I was afraid to try that out by myself but their support asked me if I can do so and it worked.
I have the same problem after a year or so with my Xiaomi Redmi Note phones (7 and 10). In the end it is sometimes easier to charge with a USB-A to USB-C cable, because USB-PD signalling easily breaks if the connector is worn out. I do not understand why we need more than 2 lines to charge.
I also have a Lenovo X395 laptop this one has the problem that the USB-C socket is not deep enough to snap in. I am hoping it will die before the end of warranty. Because if not, it will die a week after.
At least we can keep the chargers as all our devices will die early because we cannot charge them anymore
Yep. If there's no port protection IC (and even then it might not catch it), if you unplug the USB-C connector you can potentially get 20V+ on the data lines. Goodbye data lines.
2024? There's still plenty of time for them to remove the port altogether and go with just MagSafe/Qi. Which they control, and they still can get fees from.
Trust me when I say that Apple will NEVER submit to this legislation, they will find every sort of obscure or arcane tricks to comply with it without actually doing it. It would set a precedent that legislating can change Apple's behaviour, which they clearly do not want to give. If they show the EU Parliament it's pointless to go after them, maybe they will not try to dismantle their monopoly on the App Store, which is clearly the next thing they will go after this.
What I don't understand from Apple - they have already made the move to USB-C with laptops (ditching the Magsafe - that was way more practical than the USB-C connector), why resisting this much for the iPhone/iPad/etc? I understand that they have additional revenue streams by licensing lighting to accessories manufactures, but still...
As a user, I liked USB-C. Until I had to implement this ridiculously overcomplicated garbage.
To be spec-conform, you need at least 1 IC. You can theoretically hack a solution together with some resistors, but it's not spec conform. If you need the high-speed lanes, add a mux/redriver to un-flip it.
If you want power delivery (>15W), you need a PD controller and port protection (or a user will fry your data lines when they unplug the connector and put 20V on the data pins). 2 ICs right there, and one of them is basically a microcontroller, so you need to deal with more programming.
If you want alternate mode, you need to implement the entire PD stack and a redriver/mux. That's 2-3 ICs right there that have to work together (so usually a single vendor). And not all of them support alt mode.
Which, ok, fine. I'm not building a cost optimized product, I just want it to work well. Except literally none of the ICs are available. Because USB-C requires ICs for everything, it's all sold out (or total garbage that's not worth designing into a product, or requires vendor support to design the firmware, or or or).
Oh well. I just returned 3 USB-C hubs in a row, one almost fried my computer. Since the introduce of USB-C, I have more cables than ever. There are virtually so many types of USB-C cables with different capabilities and all looks almost exactly the same. Some cannot handle charging current of 2A or less. Some might be able to do 3A, some maybe 5A. And some of it is USB 2.0, some are USB 3.x 5Gbps, 10Gbps, 20 Gbps or maybe even 40 Gbps. Some have DP-Alt mode, some don't. It's simply a random combination of any of the previous stuff. I wish I had read the specs and labeled them correctly. Now I have a whole bunch of them and I cannot tell which can do what except very few long thick ones for my monitors.
Everybody who is frenetically celebrating this as the end of the manufacturer-specific power brick, does simply not know that USB-C is not USB-C. There is no single USB-C.
USB-C is a bunch of specifications that may can be combined or may not. USB-C is only the physical connector. USB-C PD (Power delivery) does support many different modes. There are at least 11 different modes with at least 4 of them are optional. I haven't read the latest version of the specification, but I would bet that there are optionally also some implementation-specific options aka manufacturer-specific. All that combined with the many different cable definitions for the different use cases, makes it for the average consumer a nightmare.
No, it doesn't. Almost all my devices (macbook, camera, speaker, phone, headphones...) use usb c pd and I am using the same three cables interchangeably for all of them, no issues.
If Apple choses to intentionally break this compatibility it's a user hostile company.
I've never seen a USB-C cable that didn't charge all my devices with all my chargers. OK, maybe one that came with an HP screen and was clearly labeled as "data only".
I think this will make cables interchangeable in most cases. Fast charging and fast transfers are nice to have but rarely vital.
This all seems pretty short sighted. Great in the short term (I want a USB-C iPhone and for everything today to be USB-C) but will surely be a pain going forward - where would USB-C be if this policy had standardised on micro USB earlier? Some will say wireless is the future but I’m not convinced. Maybe the best solution would be to have this policy expire after a certain number of years?
I wish EU standardizes a single electric socket for all EU countries. Germany, France, Switzerland and Italy - each has a different socket (although German and French are very similar to each other).
Please don't make me start complaining about the utter sheet stupidity of the Italian electrical plug (type L). It's pure and utter shite.
1. The C plug was fine. It doesn't carry more than 10A, and that is fine because it does not support grounding, so it would be unwise to use it for very powerful appliances, but it's well enough for bed lamps and phone chargers.
2. We Italians are famous for finding half-assed solutions to problems, so instead of developing a decent plug we just shoved a ground prong on the C type plug, so the 10A L connector was born.
3. Given that 10A plugs can only carry AFAIK a maximum of ~1500W, the 16A L connector was created as a chunkier version of the 10A one.
4. Given this whole nonsensical situation, companies catering to the EU single market largely ignore the L connector. Every single device sold in Italy either uses the C type ungrounded connector (Europlug) or the E/F "Schuko"-French combo connector.
5. Italian houses have either 10A plugs WITH 10A WIRING or 16A plugs (usually with combo 10/16A plugs, have I mentioned the two sockets are incompatible despite both being L?). This means that F "Schuko" adapters to L are a common fixture in Italian homes.
6. People buy devices with F plugs, which they then have to plug into their sockets using adapters. Adapters can either adapt to 16A plugs, or, unfortunately, to 10A, which is extremely dangerous given that Schuko is a 16A connector and 10A plugs often do not have the proper wire gauge for that. The fact that no Schuko adapter supports nominally over 1500W doesn't help either.
Long story short: Italian homes are full of high power devices, such as microwave ovens, air friers, hairdryers, kettles, ... plugged in 10A wall sockets through adapters that do not allow more than 1500W of power. It's absolutely stupid and moronic. Yes they get hot. Yes they are a hazard.
The solution would be to mandate everywhere the C/F/L combo socket in new buildings, but given that 16A wires are more expensive and the Italian government has been historically extremely pro-business, it will never happen.
CEE 7/7 plugs will fit into all sockets in the EU, except Italy (where they can be bent slightly to fit), Malta and Ireland. The only issue is grounding, but things like phone chargers wouldn't be grounded anyway.
What do you mean? USB-C is covered by the same trademark licensing scheme (that isn't technically needed if you don't use the USB logo and use your chip's default vendor ID) as USB-A is, a $6000 one-time + $5000/year payment to USB-IF.
[+] [-] bloppe|3 years ago|reply
Other people saying "what about innovation!?" That's fine. Let's say the USB consortium releases USB-D with input from Apple, Google, and many other stakeholders. The EU can set another deadline for newly released devices to adhere to the new version instead of the old one. The transition will involve a period of time where older devices are still on C and newer ones on D, which is totally compatible with the regulation and is necessary with or without regulation. It's ludicrous to think companies won't be able to "iterate": you would be crazy to go to market with any cable technology that isn't already very mature. Apple spent years designing lighting chargers because they knew that once they were released they'd be around for a long time (and they have been!)
[+] [-] robonerd|3 years ago|reply
Yeah yeah, "640k should be enough for everybody". There comes a point where that is actually true.
[+] [-] alerighi|3 years ago|reply
> Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables
Which spec? There are a multitude of them! What we do, adhere all to the best spec and to only feed 5V power to a device (that could be done with 2 wires) require the same cable used to connect a thunderbolt device at 40Gb/s? Of course not, since the first one costs a couple of dollars, the second one tens of dollars, the first one can be as long as voltage drop permits it to be, the second one needs to be maximum 1 meter, the first one needs no shielding at all, the second one needs to be heavily shielded, that not only increases cost but makes it bulkier. And again, does a data cable that is used for thunderbolt connection (assuming that the thunderbolt device is externally powered) be designed to carry the full 5A of the spec? 5A is a lot of current, it will require bigger conductors, but for a data cable it doesn't make sense!
Type-C is a standard that makes to me not a lot of sense: they wanted to create the one connector that fits all, while in the past they designed different connector, one for each device, not because they wanted you to buy more cables but to avoid confusion in customers, if the cable fits it works I used to say back in the day, the VGA connector was physically different from a serial port, the PS2 connector was not the same as a parallel port, even if they could have done everything with one port they didn't.
[+] [-] cm2187|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ZekeSulastin|3 years ago|reply
I don’t think anyone’s mentioned that. Oh my god, tech social media is going to melt down when that kicks in if the reaction to chargers being excluded is any indication (not to mention a repeat of the shift from 30-pin to Lightning in Apple’s case, except now without a cable).
[+] [-] tediousdemise|3 years ago|reply
In all my years, I haven't had a single Lightning connector fail on me. The solid metal where the contacts reside is just too robust to wear out or get damaged (unless you somehow step on it the right way or let it corrode).
USB-C connectors, on the other hand, seems to loosen after a rather small number mates and de-mates, leading people to use preemptive workarounds such as magnetic connectors.
[+] [-] leadingthenet|3 years ago|reply
If you have to make such an argument, you've already lost.
Innovation, particularly disruptive and / or breakthrough innovation, does not happen by committee, no matter how many times over history people tried deluding themselves into thinking that it does.
So no, it's not fine.
[+] [-] AlchemistCamp|3 years ago|reply
If your idea of "innovation" is moving from one version of a spec to another version of the same spec requiring multiple trillion dollar companies and the EU setting a timeline, then your usage of the word is much narrower than mine.
Many advances that I consider truly innovative have often come from outsiders without the backing of the largest companies in the world and succeeded from the bottom up.
[+] [-] dwaite|3 years ago|reply
1. Cables have radically different capabilities - they may charge at 60W, 100W or 240W ; they may be limited to 480 mbps transmission rates or go all the way up to 40 gbps transmission. Up until now, the market has not regulated such that you can tell the difference when you grab a random cable, or necessarily tell the difference at time of purchase
2. Devices like the Nintendo Switch and Raspberry Pi shipped with broken implementations. For instance, the RPi would not work with cables that _supported_ over 60W charging rates.
[+] [-] maccard|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nonethewiser|3 years ago|reply
Wait, what? That's idiotic
[+] [-] ecnahc515|3 years ago|reply
Except that could kill your Nintendo switch, and it's not like Nintendo is going to change how their hardware works on something that's already been released to the masses.
[+] [-] burlesona|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shaded-enmity|3 years ago|reply
EU should be there to set goals, not to dictate implementation.
[+] [-] mrtksn|3 years ago|reply
Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation?
That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_...
In essence, they seem to believe that wired charging is mature enough for standardisation but further technologies can be implemented through "Radio Equipment Directive". In the same time, it appears that the wireless charging is unaffected because the tech is new and fast changing, therefore the manufacturers can include whatever wireless charging they see fit.
It really boils down to "No funny cables, why don't you try wireless charging of your liking if USB-C doesn't cut it for you?".
[+] [-] ubermonkey|3 years ago|reply
I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice.
Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own ports; etc. It was ugly.
Now, pretty much everything is either USB or Lightning. This is good! What problem is the EU solving here?
[+] [-] maccard|3 years ago|reply
[0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/EFISH-Multifunctional-Transformer-2...
[+] [-] lekevicius|3 years ago|reply
USB-A has been with us for over 20 years. It's only disappearing because of USB-C, and USB-C seems to have room to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if it will still be the most popular connector in 2035, and not just because "legislation stops innovation".
Making sure there are no weird exceptions to a very good port is reasonable and good.
[+] [-] manuelabeledo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jokabrink|3 years ago|reply
Now, I feel the same arguments are brought in again. 1) Hinders innovation 2) Lock on a single technology 3) Creates trash by soon obsolete "deprecated" connector types
My bet: 2024 (!) onwards, nearly nobody will be affected by the "downsides".
[+] [-] jl6|3 years ago|reply
Supporting this is tantamount to believing that there will never need to be a USB-D that improves upon USB-C, and I just can’t believe that.
[+] [-] torginus|3 years ago|reply
This is the part that wears out, and when it does, the port will need to be replaced, not the cable.
[+] [-] AndrewDucker|3 years ago|reply
Any technological developments in wired charging can be reflected in a timely adjustment of technical requirements/ specific standards under the Radio Equipment Directive. This would ensure that the technology used is not outdated.
At the same time, the implementation of any new standards in further revisions of Radio Equipment Directive would need to be developed in a harmonised manner, respecting the objectives of full interoperability. Industry is therefore expected to continue the work already undertaken on the standardised interface, led by the USB-IF organisation, in view of developing new interoperable, open and non-controversial solutions.
[+] [-] schleck8|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kalleboo|3 years ago|reply
I've never had a phone with USB-C to compare, but I've had rotten luck with Lightning. I always get that one power pin that blackens and makes the cable unreliable.
[+] [-] glogla|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plonk|3 years ago|reply
What's so great about it? USB-C is just as easy to plug in and these cables usually last longer. The only difference for me is that Lightning eventually ends up with black pins and I have to buy another cable.
Also, is it really worth the few technical advantages if the alternative is a good-enough plug that works with absolutely everything?
[+] [-] bigDinosaur|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edent|3 years ago|reply
Headphones, thermal printer, neck-cooler, rechargable screwdriver - all USB-C.
What's weird are the few things which don't. Amazon Alexa use a barrel charger. Brand new HP printer has the old square style USB plug. Pulse Oximeter user micro-USB.
So C is certainly getting there. Appearing in cheap and expensive products. And, I'm happy to say, works well. Just needs a few laggards to update!
[+] [-] kashyapc|3 years ago|reply
I've got a barely 3-months old Lenovo X1 Carbon (Gen-9) work laptop. A week ago I noticed the battery draining while the power cord is plugged in! Nothing worked: reset via the pinhole at the back, trying out different chargers, BIOS update, charging while the OS (Linux) is shut down, "to eliminate 'rogue' applications". The battery just doesn't charge.
We've got premium support, so a Lenovo technician came two days later and replaced the motherboard. Great! The root cause: USB-C power port got short-circuited somehow. "This is a common problem with USB-C for power ports; I go around replacing 2 motherboards a week," the technician said.
Now, the laptop's new motherboard worked fine for a week ... and I woke up this morning to notice the laptop's battery not charging at all (yes, again!), while the power cord is plugged in. I call up Lenovo, and the support guy confirms: "the power port seems to be short-circuited again, this time let's replace both the motherboard and also the power adapter". FFS, tomorrow morning I have long-distance travel, and I'm left with this bloody brick. Speak of timing.
I want to think this is just plain bad luck, but the Lenovo support forums are full of similar problems, and two other colleagues independently confirmed the same issue. The Lenovo technician blamed this on USB-C. I wish they retained the more robust rectangular power port; but they're phasing them out to comply with EU regulation.
[+] [-] fuzzybear3965|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] helmholtz|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jackewiehose|3 years ago|reply
> I want to think this is just plain bad luck, but the Lenovo support forums are full of similar problems, and two other colleagues independently confirmed the same issue
Oh no, I have to confirm this too. Had the same issue with my X1 Carbon Gen-9. They replaced the motherboard (and hopefully the power adapter). At least so far it's still working after a few months since repair.
> and I'm left with this bloody brick
Did you know you can charge (or at least power) the laptop via the other usb port, next to the power port? I was afraid to try that out by myself but their support asked me if I can do so and it worked.
[+] [-] riedel|3 years ago|reply
I also have a Lenovo X395 laptop this one has the problem that the USB-C socket is not deep enough to snap in. I am hoping it will die before the end of warranty. Because if not, it will die a week after.
At least we can keep the chargers as all our devices will die early because we cannot charge them anymore
[+] [-] kanetw|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qalmakka|3 years ago|reply
Trust me when I say that Apple will NEVER submit to this legislation, they will find every sort of obscure or arcane tricks to comply with it without actually doing it. It would set a precedent that legislating can change Apple's behaviour, which they clearly do not want to give. If they show the EU Parliament it's pointless to go after them, maybe they will not try to dismantle their monopoly on the App Store, which is clearly the next thing they will go after this.
[+] [-] thinkindie|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kanetw|3 years ago|reply
To be spec-conform, you need at least 1 IC. You can theoretically hack a solution together with some resistors, but it's not spec conform. If you need the high-speed lanes, add a mux/redriver to un-flip it.
If you want power delivery (>15W), you need a PD controller and port protection (or a user will fry your data lines when they unplug the connector and put 20V on the data pins). 2 ICs right there, and one of them is basically a microcontroller, so you need to deal with more programming.
If you want alternate mode, you need to implement the entire PD stack and a redriver/mux. That's 2-3 ICs right there that have to work together (so usually a single vendor). And not all of them support alt mode.
Which, ok, fine. I'm not building a cost optimized product, I just want it to work well. Except literally none of the ICs are available. Because USB-C requires ICs for everything, it's all sold out (or total garbage that's not worth designing into a product, or requires vendor support to design the firmware, or or or).
[+] [-] mrjin|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PinguTS|3 years ago|reply
USB-C is a bunch of specifications that may can be combined or may not. USB-C is only the physical connector. USB-C PD (Power delivery) does support many different modes. There are at least 11 different modes with at least 4 of them are optional. I haven't read the latest version of the specification, but I would bet that there are optionally also some implementation-specific options aka manufacturer-specific. All that combined with the many different cable definitions for the different use cases, makes it for the average consumer a nightmare.
[+] [-] schleck8|3 years ago|reply
No, it doesn't. Almost all my devices (macbook, camera, speaker, phone, headphones...) use usb c pd and I am using the same three cables interchangeably for all of them, no issues.
If Apple choses to intentionally break this compatibility it's a user hostile company.
[+] [-] plonk|3 years ago|reply
I think this will make cables interchangeable in most cases. Fast charging and fast transfers are nice to have but rarely vital.
[+] [-] marban|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kingsleyopara|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IvanK_net|3 years ago|reply
More here: https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/EuropePlugsSockets.html
[+] [-] qalmakka|3 years ago|reply
1. The C plug was fine. It doesn't carry more than 10A, and that is fine because it does not support grounding, so it would be unwise to use it for very powerful appliances, but it's well enough for bed lamps and phone chargers.
2. We Italians are famous for finding half-assed solutions to problems, so instead of developing a decent plug we just shoved a ground prong on the C type plug, so the 10A L connector was born.
3. Given that 10A plugs can only carry AFAIK a maximum of ~1500W, the 16A L connector was created as a chunkier version of the 10A one.
4. Given this whole nonsensical situation, companies catering to the EU single market largely ignore the L connector. Every single device sold in Italy either uses the C type ungrounded connector (Europlug) or the E/F "Schuko"-French combo connector.
5. Italian houses have either 10A plugs WITH 10A WIRING or 16A plugs (usually with combo 10/16A plugs, have I mentioned the two sockets are incompatible despite both being L?). This means that F "Schuko" adapters to L are a common fixture in Italian homes.
6. People buy devices with F plugs, which they then have to plug into their sockets using adapters. Adapters can either adapt to 16A plugs, or, unfortunately, to 10A, which is extremely dangerous given that Schuko is a 16A connector and 10A plugs often do not have the proper wire gauge for that. The fact that no Schuko adapter supports nominally over 1500W doesn't help either.
Long story short: Italian homes are full of high power devices, such as microwave ovens, air friers, hairdryers, kettles, ... plugged in 10A wall sockets through adapters that do not allow more than 1500W of power. It's absolutely stupid and moronic. Yes they get hot. Yes they are a hazard.
The solution would be to mandate everywhere the C/F/L combo socket in new buildings, but given that 16A wires are more expensive and the Italian government has been historically extremely pro-business, it will never happen.
[+] [-] fy20|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agilob|3 years ago|reply
This also bans cheap phones like these https://www.androidpolice.com/nokias-newest-android-go-phone...
[+] [-] lights0123|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] akmarinov|3 years ago|reply
Currently they sell the SE, 11, 12 and 13
By 2024 they will be selling a SE, 13, 14 and 15. Will they rework the SE, 13 and 14 to get USB-C? Will they stop selling them just in Europe?
That's potentially a lot of money left on the table.