It's not worse, aside from chats being unencrypted by default.
I've had suggestions on Instagram of people who I never got in touch with, only because my wife, who has no FB account, is in the same WhatsApp group as these people. They mixed in a bunch of other "you may know" people to make it less obvious, but when comparing her groupchat and my suggestions, it's clear they made links via IPs and phone numbers. At least Telegram isn't big enough (not yet, anyway) to cross correlate data to ID users like that to create such privacy concerns. FB? No, thanks.
To me a chat app not reading my messages is way more important than a chat app will not use my phone number for advertisement. Ideally I'd have both, but given a choice, the first one is way way more horrific than the other.
Though, for some cases Telegram is definately better, Groups, work related chats don't really need to be private as much and that's where telegram really shines for me. Specially since I can use it without giving my phone number away.
Both are equally bad, for different reasons. As a user, one might be more worried of having their identity tied to their Facebook account (and therefore advertising/tracking), than about their government spying on them.
Having worked with people in totalitarian countries, it's surprising how much protesting people can do in plain sight. Until the regime decides they went too far, and it won't matter what proofs or chats they have on their devices, they'll just randomly arrest a bunch of people and release them after a week of horrible prison conditions. It's usually good enough to scare everyone.
I use Signal 95% of the time, but I understand the appeal of Telegram. The UX is better, it allows pseudonyms, has huge communities in group chats. In a sense, it feels more private than Signal because of the pseudonyms. And for people in non-Western countries, well, Telegram might seem like the only option.
signal and telegram are a no brainer when it comes to totalitarian regimes. i live in Kashmir which has historically and continues to hunt down dissidents with agility. i cannot imagine being tied to my "mobile number" when the government has that data by law, tying a telegram/signal account to it is a gone case by that point.
people who go with signal call it "better whatsapp without facebook tracking" but just like telegram, its Achilles heel is mobile number requirement. matrix has that from the start so its better in that respect. sure, matrix does not have "social graph" out of the box but in a "totalitarian regime", that is precisely what you want.
besides, you can set up your own matrix server, something whatsapp/telegram/signal simply cannot do so its 100% more secure in that sense
Telegram has a great thing working in its favor: it is mostly free of censorship, particularly of the kind that reacts to Western do-gooder sensibilities. I have learnt more about the Ukraine war from Telegram channels (Gruz 200, Truha, some local ones) than from all of the Western press combined. Analysts like Bellingcat, CIT and ISW keep citing Telegram channels as sources. Both DNR/LNR "separatists" and Ukrainian regular and irregular fighters are putting out a lot of unfiltered info on TG.
The idea that Telegram is in any way safer than the other platforms, I really don't see much to speak for it.
It's similar to ProtonMail: you get it as a backup in case you get locked out of your googlemail; you don't get it to conspire.
For people looking for privacy: Briar is where it's at. A bit clunky UI (e.g. inviting someone isn't easy) but otherwise really well built client, and top notch network protocol and cryptographic features.
I want to like Briar and Cwtch but neither of them have iOS clients which really breaks the whole friendly to people who use other platforms covenant. If a client doesn't have apps for both of the big mobile platforms I'd say it's very unfriendly because you by omission are creating exclusionary silos.
There's Session, which is iOS and Android friendly and doesn't burn down your battery as messages are privately routed through zero-knowledge nodes: https://getsession.org
fer|3 years ago
I've had suggestions on Instagram of people who I never got in touch with, only because my wife, who has no FB account, is in the same WhatsApp group as these people. They mixed in a bunch of other "you may know" people to make it less obvious, but when comparing her groupchat and my suggestions, it's clear they made links via IPs and phone numbers. At least Telegram isn't big enough (not yet, anyway) to cross correlate data to ID users like that to create such privacy concerns. FB? No, thanks.
emilsedgh|3 years ago
That is not a side point though. It's a major, major difference.
anunay03|3 years ago
Though, for some cases Telegram is definately better, Groups, work related chats don't really need to be private as much and that's where telegram really shines for me. Specially since I can use it without giving my phone number away.
mgbmtl|3 years ago
Having worked with people in totalitarian countries, it's surprising how much protesting people can do in plain sight. Until the regime decides they went too far, and it won't matter what proofs or chats they have on their devices, they'll just randomly arrest a bunch of people and release them after a week of horrible prison conditions. It's usually good enough to scare everyone.
I use Signal 95% of the time, but I understand the appeal of Telegram. The UX is better, it allows pseudonyms, has huge communities in group chats. In a sense, it feels more private than Signal because of the pseudonyms. And for people in non-Western countries, well, Telegram might seem like the only option.
2Gkashmiri|3 years ago
people who go with signal call it "better whatsapp without facebook tracking" but just like telegram, its Achilles heel is mobile number requirement. matrix has that from the start so its better in that respect. sure, matrix does not have "social graph" out of the box but in a "totalitarian regime", that is precisely what you want.
besides, you can set up your own matrix server, something whatsapp/telegram/signal simply cannot do so its 100% more secure in that sense
brobinson|3 years ago
RektBoy|3 years ago
generationP|3 years ago
The idea that Telegram is in any way safer than the other platforms, I really don't see much to speak for it.
It's similar to ProtonMail: you get it as a backup in case you get locked out of your googlemail; you don't get it to conspire.
pyrryh|3 years ago
abcd_f|3 years ago
And yet it’s top comment at the moment in the HN of all places.
Talk about irony.
cookiengineer|3 years ago
[1] https://briarproject.org/
emptysongglass|3 years ago
There's Session, which is iOS and Android friendly and doesn't burn down your battery as messages are privately routed through zero-knowledge nodes: https://getsession.org
easrng|3 years ago
EGreg|3 years ago
juanani|3 years ago
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