Ergo – modern IRC server written in Go

[lrvick]

Anyone interested in IRC protocol improvements should check out https://ircv3.net/irc/

Two of the most major changes:

1. First-class mobile-friendly websocket support.

2. Server can store messages to catch you up when you return

Personally I feel Matrix is the right way forward for most use cases but Matrix will continue to bridge to IRC so you have options. IRC remains a much easier to implement protocol and much easier to deploy for standalone environments where federation is not needed.

There is a reason most infra teams at FAANG companies keep IRC servers around as a fallback for when their complex proprietary solutions fail.

[usrn]

Matrix has a lot of nasty issues, I'd argue XMPP is probably the right way forward for small group chats and one to one convos. I personally refuse to use matrix since I still don't feel comfortable self hosting it.

For large group chats IRC is still king.

EDIT:

There's pretty much one useful server last time I checked and it's too bloated to host in most places and it looks to me like this might be at least partly due to the way federation works. One of the main organizations funding Matrix is that one company in Israel that was contracted to do all the phone surveillance in the US. I haven't really been impressed with the protocol itself either.

In short, I don't think Matrix will "mature" since it's problems are deeper than just technical/implementation. XMPP already is mature and there are good clients and servers for nearly every platform.

IMO: The only reason Matrix is more popular than XMPP right now is just PR.

[mekster]

What good is a chat platform without mobile notifications?

I don't see how people need to stick with a legacy protocol when there are so many working alternatives.

[rawoke083600]

Man how I miss my time on IRC. It was the "apex" for "decent-social" for me :) I'm old enough to have enjoyed BBS and Usenet. Both the BBS and Usenet was mostly tech/geek.

IRC was just enough mainstream and the lack of mostly economic incentives and a small enough tech-hurdle to filter to keep out "crazies".

[toolz]

interesting. I grew up on IRC as well, but my takeaway from IRC is that people have a very hard time treating others with decency without visual indicators like a profile picture. I did very much appreciate how many people were on IRC just to help other people learn, though.

[dTal]

The biggest problem I have with IRC is its feudal social model. The first person to join a channel becomes the monarch, and can appoint deputies to impose their will on the others. There's no system for dealing with an abusive op. It's all very well to say "just start your own channel then", but that's rather like telling someone to move to Canada if they don't like the president. A channel has inertia and cannot simply be "moved", especially when the person running it can simply silence anyone who raises the idea. And there's also a single global namespace - it's not feasible to found a replacement for, say, #chat.

[tenebrisalietum]

These problems exist with any social network.

The IRCops of most major IRC servers are very hands off - they will not get involved in user disputes at all unless the IRC server itself is in danger.

However, you get kicked out of a Discord server or Facebook group, you're in the same situation, and Discord/Facebook isn't going to help you most of the time unless the group is violating TOS. Most IRC server's TOS are very liberal because the IRC server itself doesn't really store any data other than possibly some actual chat text - it doesn't hold images, files, etc.

> And there's also a single global namespace - it's not feasible to found a replacement for, say, #chat.

With modern IRC services you can actually create "neutral" lobby-type channels that have the services daemon as the op.

But unless you run your own chat server or social media service you'll always be at the mercy of who runs it at least a little bit.

[welterde]

IRC also supports anarchism with + channels that simply have no modes and no ops (also no topic which is slightly annoying) but then you are kinda at the mercy of the network admins to stop the spammers (as well as liberal use of /ignore to ignore spammers). Also some channels just give every non-spammer ops, which kinda also solves the power corrupts issue.

[toolz]

you can build GUIs on top of IRC that abstract away from all of this and still use the underlying protocol. I am curious what you think a better alternative would be for moderation, though. It's easy to point out flaws in all moderated systems, but it would be interesting to consider what an improvement might look like

[beardedwizard]

Sure there is, run your own network, servers and channels, have better content and attract users. You can have as many #chat channels as you want, and run them as you see fit.

Anyone can run an irc server, and it does not have to appeal or cater to everyone.

[zxcvbn4038]

I really hate Slack but the killer feature nobody in irc world is solving is mobile connectivity. If get logged out every time I lock my phone then I have to keep dealing with Slack.

[welterde]

This issue has been solved by the ergo in that it integrates the bouncer functionality into the IRC server. So from everyone elses perspective you never get disconnected and combined with support for the chathistory extension (which your mobile IRC client has to support) you won't miss things happening in between either.

But that being said, the mobile phone essentially killing all open tcp connections is not really that great of a thing. IRC is not the only protocol that suffers here, but also IMAP IDLE push notifications suffer here.

[emersion]

Shameless plug: someone is trying to solve these issues: https://sr.ht/~emersion/goguma/

It uses IRCv3 chathistory + a proposed extension for push notifications.

[rob74]

I don't hate Slack per se, but I hate their bloated Electron client. Fortunately some weeks ago their Linux client stopped working on my machine (it had been warning me for some time that my OS version is "too old" - interestingly other Electron apps and Chrome itself are just fine with that). Since then I discovered that the web version works just as well and is less resource-intensive...

[unhammer]

Put https://weechat.org/ on your vpn (or a raspberry pi under your couch or whatever) and install one of the weechat apps.

[znpy]

You can run thelounge somewhere and use thst as web interface. Android and iOS allows you to iconify a website, so that would feel like a native app.

https://thelounge.chat/

[sleepydog]

I use chat.sr.ht, which is a hosted instance of the ircv3 bouncer soju.im. This keeps me logged in without requiring my phone to be always connected.

[theshrike79]

The biggest issue with mobile IRC that it needs a constant open TCP connection to the server.

You need to have a client or a proxy client running somewhere 24/7. You can self-host it (bouncer) or you can pay someone else to do it (IRCCloud).

But it's still a protocol level issue. IRCv3 might be doing something about it, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Fnoord]

That issue was solved ages ago with screen or bouncers. One could also push notifications via e.g. Gotify.

[Darmody]

I don't think that's going to change. It's like that by design and I don't think IRC devs are willing to change it.

So you'd have to use a server that's connected to the IRC server 24/7 and connect from your phone to that server.

[Agamus]

Today I learned that mobile connectivity issues are another thing I love about IRC.

[nly]

Tradional way to deal with this is a bouncer on a VPS somewhere

[giancarlostoro]

Connection bouncer is what you're yearning for. If that doesn't interest you, then try IRCCloud, which is fantastic on mobile.

[darrenf]

irccloud.com has worked wonderfully for me, for many years now.

[corobo]

Yup, lack of roaming support was what killed IRC for me. I see that IRCv3 tries to address this but it's about 20 years too late and 10 years since I last used IRC.

Props to them for giving it a go but I feel it'd take something massive for people to switch back to IRC at this point

[vegai_]

The chathistory extension[0] might take care of that problem. If IRC lives that long.

[0] https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/chathistory

[pmlnr]

It's the other way around: the phone systems actively block background connections.

[tenebrisalietum]

Thelounge solves it nicely.

Run Thelounge somewhere and it provides a great interface for your phone with chat history storage and other conveniences.

[sph]

Would QUIC with its connection migration feature help here?

[johnisgood]

That is a non-issue. That is what bouncers are for. It has been around for over 20 years or something. Personally I run irssi inside screen on a server and I ssh into it using my phone.

[charcircuit]

Another killer feature IRC is missing is being able to react with a party parrot or other custom emoji.

[rawoke083600]

Any info on benchmarks ? Purely for curiosity sake ? "Back in my day" - server-overloads were a common thing, and the connection counts were in the low thousands ?

Would love to know the modern day connection-numbers with something like Go+Channels

[voi]

Unrelated project with the same name (coincidentally written in the same language): https://github.com/ergo-services/ergo

"an actor based Framework for creating microservices using technologies and design patterns of Erlang/OTP in Golang"

[tjpnz]

What makes this "modern" specifically?

[memorable]

It supports IRCv3, so you may call it modern I guess.

[cosmin800]

more yaml config files insanity, happy that irc is not dead

[mp3il]

God I miss the IRC days. EFnet, DALnet :(

[Minor49er]

Also EsperNet and Undernet

[rr888]

Surprised that Discord isn't used more in professional settings. Its a great alternative to Slack/Matrix/IRC even if it isn't open source.

[freeplay]

Their branding is very "gamer." It's worked out great for them as they have cornered that market, but it doesn't surprised me that they aren't even considered when comparing chat clients in a work environment.