I wonder how future generations will judge us. These last years have showed how weak little sheep we all are. The US has spent more in the last 2 years than our entire countries history, we are racked with debt and stuck in 30 different wars. & yet we are still discussing covid and abortion.
We stopped working for TWO YEARS, made things that were proven to be false from the start, the norm and have somehow seem to have just moved on.
I was canceled at work, some social & professional cicles for calling out the absolute absurdity of masks in general but especially cloth & bandanas. When i spoke about the absolute onslaught of studies that have showed our data was all f*cked and we couldn't make any logical assumptions out of it. We had plans in place to quarantine the old and sickly and we did the exact opposite.
I've always tried to understand how people could fight in hitlers army, now i have my answer. It's much easier to posture and social gesture your way to hell than it is to stand against the immoral tide.
Nothing about covid was known from the start besides the structure of the virus. And while we made progress, there is still a lot we don't know, and we expect the unexpected.
Even if based on current research, you are right on some point (speaking generally), saying "I knew it, it was obvious all along" only shows that you don't understand science. You didn't, you took a guess and by chance, it was right. And your "onslaught of studies" is most likely cherry picked. Because mask mandates are a contentious issue, there are many studies going both ways. No matter the facts, it is an attitude worth "cancelling".
You can have opinions, I have my own, some turned out right, others did not, but they are just that.
But one thing to note: there are many countries in the world, all with different cultures, with a wide variety of covid strategies. Though some did better than others, none of them managed to keep covid at bay, all of them suffered in some way. If anything, at least in the beginning, dictatorships did better.
How future generation will judge us? The idiots will look down on us, the smart ones will see what we did right, and what we did wrong, both will be precious knowledge that will help them make better decisions.
Except that mask mandates aren't worthless. We have relatively controlled studies in other countries demonstrating where one area got masks and another area didn't that there was a fairly clear difference in transmission rate.
What are useless are mask mandates when you have a large cohort that simply won't comply or will anti-comply. Which is what we had in the US--both from political intransigence (Covid is a hoax) as well as general stupidity (Remember the police in CA having to break up a block party in the middle of Covid?) as well as general intransigence (Remember a handful of illegal gatherings being responsible for 80% of the Covid cases in California at the beginning? I do.).
This shouldn't have even needed to be a mandate. It should have been common sense. It should have been protecting your fellow man.
Just a couple things to note, which make this far from being a case against masking, or mask mandates:
- The data is from one county in CA ...
- ... for the time period June 3 - June 25, about 3 weeks
- Neighboring counties did not have mask mandates at the time, meaning that anyone traveling between counties and not wearing their mask would have spread COVID-19 to Alameda County just as well as if no mask mandate existed
- The article notes that the most likely explanation for the lack of a different outcome from neighboring counties is that people either do not follow mask mandates or do not wear effective masks
>Neighboring counties did not have mask mandates at the time, meaning that anyone traveling between counties and not wearing their mask would have spread COVID-19 to Alameda County just as well as if no mask mandate existed
So masking is not effective unless we also ban travel from non-mask mandated areas? This very point seems to confirm that masking mandates can't work unless implemented in conjunction with a strict travel ban (which is impractical).
Just another example of 'trusting the science' not being as self-evident as commonly assumed. Science is supposed to be tested, not just blindly trusted.
It's worth noting that the story was for mask mandates, not masks in general. I'm reasonably certain that the science still says that masks can be effective in preventing the spread of Covid.
"working" implies that the goal of mask mandates is to reduce covid and not political theatre so some person in charge could say "we managed the situation".
The mandate worked exactly as intended.
Worth pointing out that there is nothing conspiratorial about this. It exactly aligns with the real life decision making process of how things like this get enacted
Yes government bureaucrats got to drag political enemies off planes and kick them out of restaurants on the basis of wrongthink, masquerading dogma as science.
And I'll grant there's some other studies that show individual mask wearing makes no difference on modern airplanes. But a lot of modern life is conducted in environments more similar to buses than to 767s that have HEPA filters and engineered airflows through the cabin.
This suggests that there are other things complicating the situation, doesn't it?
It will help to keep this kind of news in perspective if you remember that mask mandate studies are very blunt instruments. You identify (preferably large) communities experiencing an outbreak, some with and some without mask mandates, then compare contagion rates. We have over a century of this kind research and the results are very consistent that mask mandates make no overall difference. However, more focused research appears to support that masking does have some positive effect in situations of close contact and limited ventilation. This topic has been done to death over the past couple years, and you can find references in previous HN threads.
Wearing a mask lets everybody know that we are still in the midst of a very dangerous pandemic. It shows me that you take it seriously. It shows me who takes responsibility for the well-being of their fellow citizens and who doesn't.
So even if it serves no practical purpose, it still serves a very important ritualistic purpose.
I’m all for caution and taking safety protocol seriously in the midst of such a situation…but jeez, this thing has morphed into a religion for some people.
I’m not sure if it’s sarcasm, so I’ll politely ask…Are you really judging who “takes responsibility for the well-being of their fellow citizens and who doesn't” by mask wearing, at a time when we have widespread availability of Covid vaccines and treatments?
[+] [-] TrapLord_Rhodo|3 years ago|reply
We stopped working for TWO YEARS, made things that were proven to be false from the start, the norm and have somehow seem to have just moved on.
I was canceled at work, some social & professional cicles for calling out the absolute absurdity of masks in general but especially cloth & bandanas. When i spoke about the absolute onslaught of studies that have showed our data was all f*cked and we couldn't make any logical assumptions out of it. We had plans in place to quarantine the old and sickly and we did the exact opposite.
I've always tried to understand how people could fight in hitlers army, now i have my answer. It's much easier to posture and social gesture your way to hell than it is to stand against the immoral tide.
[+] [-] GuB-42|3 years ago|reply
Nothing about covid was known from the start besides the structure of the virus. And while we made progress, there is still a lot we don't know, and we expect the unexpected.
Even if based on current research, you are right on some point (speaking generally), saying "I knew it, it was obvious all along" only shows that you don't understand science. You didn't, you took a guess and by chance, it was right. And your "onslaught of studies" is most likely cherry picked. Because mask mandates are a contentious issue, there are many studies going both ways. No matter the facts, it is an attitude worth "cancelling".
You can have opinions, I have my own, some turned out right, others did not, but they are just that.
But one thing to note: there are many countries in the world, all with different cultures, with a wide variety of covid strategies. Though some did better than others, none of them managed to keep covid at bay, all of them suffered in some way. If anything, at least in the beginning, dictatorships did better.
How future generation will judge us? The idiots will look down on us, the smart ones will see what we did right, and what we did wrong, both will be precious knowledge that will help them make better decisions.
[+] [-] bsder|3 years ago|reply
What are useless are mask mandates when you have a large cohort that simply won't comply or will anti-comply. Which is what we had in the US--both from political intransigence (Covid is a hoax) as well as general stupidity (Remember the police in CA having to break up a block party in the middle of Covid?) as well as general intransigence (Remember a handful of illegal gatherings being responsible for 80% of the Covid cases in California at the beginning? I do.).
This shouldn't have even needed to be a mandate. It should have been common sense. It should have been protecting your fellow man.
But, here, we are.
[+] [-] softwarebeware|3 years ago|reply
- The data is from one county in CA ...
- ... for the time period June 3 - June 25, about 3 weeks
- Neighboring counties did not have mask mandates at the time, meaning that anyone traveling between counties and not wearing their mask would have spread COVID-19 to Alameda County just as well as if no mask mandate existed
- The article notes that the most likely explanation for the lack of a different outcome from neighboring counties is that people either do not follow mask mandates or do not wear effective masks
Pretty much a non-sequitor article AFAICT
[+] [-] aeternum|3 years ago|reply
So masking is not effective unless we also ban travel from non-mask mandated areas? This very point seems to confirm that masking mandates can't work unless implemented in conjunction with a strict travel ban (which is impractical).
[+] [-] paulpauper|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swechsler|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] anm89|3 years ago|reply
The mandate worked exactly as intended.
Worth pointing out that there is nothing conspiratorial about this. It exactly aligns with the real life decision making process of how things like this get enacted
[+] [-] pyronik19|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdlyga|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codefreeordie|3 years ago|reply
This science isn't "the science" because it doesn't reach the enforced narrative's required conclusion.
[+] [-] bediger4000|3 years ago|reply
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7976046/ https://npli.sph.harvard.edu/resources-2/aviation-public-hea...
And I'll grant there's some other studies that show individual mask wearing makes no difference on modern airplanes. But a lot of modern life is conducted in environments more similar to buses than to 767s that have HEPA filters and engineered airflows through the cabin.
This suggests that there are other things complicating the situation, doesn't it?
[+] [-] wrp|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josephcsible|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swayvil|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swayvil|3 years ago|reply
So even if it serves no practical purpose, it still serves a very important ritualistic purpose.
[+] [-] boeingUH60|3 years ago|reply
I’m not sure if it’s sarcasm, so I’ll politely ask…Are you really judging who “takes responsibility for the well-being of their fellow citizens and who doesn't” by mask wearing, at a time when we have widespread availability of Covid vaccines and treatments?
[+] [-] 90d|3 years ago|reply
A cloth mask for you does the same as a blanket for a child. It provides a false sense of security and is a breeding ground for bacteria.
[+] [-] jriot|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josephcsible|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomohawk|3 years ago|reply
This allows people to disrespect others with an easily visible item.
It also allows the powers that be to think they are in control and doing something useful.
[+] [-] proc0|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aakresearch|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DIARRHEA_xd|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aaron695|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]