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Apple and the Kindle

163 points| samrat | 14 years ago |aaronsw.com | reply

96 comments

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[+] breck|14 years ago|reply
> Or (and this is incredibly aggravating) when you select a word in the Kindle, depending on how common a word it is, the option that comes up highlighted by default is either “full definition” or “start highlight”. Since e-ink’s refresh rate is so slow, you typically don’t see what’s actually come up until you’ve pressed the button for the second time. So I often “double click” on words to highlight them, but some percentage of the time this kicks me over into the dictionary and I have to hit back twice to get out.

I'm on my third Kindle. The latest one, sans keyboard, is the first to have this problem. It's so annoying. Literally sometimes I'll be in the middle of a great passage and try to highlight it and then I'm brought to the dictionary page for a word like "the".

Is there anyone on here who is on the Kindle team and knows when a fix for this will come out?

*Also, as a general commentary, I think the Kindle is a revolutionary device. Moreso than the iPad. I think Bezos knows full well what he is doing and would prefer to keep it under the radar how absolutely amazing and big this thing is going to be. It shocks me that Apple hasn't come out with an eInk reader yet. It's an order of magnitude better for reading than an iPad.

[+] euroclydon|14 years ago|reply
After reading ebooks on my iPhone and now iPad, I couldn't go back to the kindle. The UI was just so terrible and slow. I use white on black for night time reading, and can still fall asleep.

Incidentally, this is the same reason I could only use Duck Duck Go for one day before going back to Google search. The Google search UI has just spoiled me with its responsiveness.

[+] jgrahamc|14 years ago|reply
To me the Kindle has two killer features: the screen (because I can read it like paper for hours) and its weight (can hold it for hours like a paperback book). Those two things made it a 'wow' device. The 3G access made it effortless.

None of those things seem very clever and have been pretty easily duplicated in the Nook. The software itself (and this applies to Kindle and Nook) is rather ugly and it feels slow to react. Both need Apple to come in and make them work.

[+] rapind|14 years ago|reply
Please leave my Kindle alone. I don't want it to be fancy. I want to read books on it. Cheap, long battery life, and a screen that reads like a book is as clever as I ever want from it. I have no intention of replacing my kindle anytime soon. I don't care if a new version comes out that's 10 times faster... I'm completely content with the one I have.

When I want to use an iPad (for something other than reading books), then I'll just use my iPad.

[+] harshpotatoes|14 years ago|reply
I can't speak for the ugliness, but as for the slow to react...

I think the reason it feels sluggish are two reasons: The screen technology has a slow response time. This is alittle difficult to fix, due to the nature of the technology: an electic field turns on or off causing tiny balls to be pulled to the top or bottom of the screen causing light to be reflected/absorbed. Due to the size of these balls (microns), it can take much longer to reorient these balls then the molecules in liquid crystal (nanometers).

The other reason it probably feels sluggish is that the processor is a little slow. Fortunately, amazon has been able to work around this a bit by caching the next few pages. (But if you go backwards it can sometimes take a bit longer to load).

[+] shrikant|14 years ago|reply
> The software itself (and this applies to Kindle and Nook) is rather ugly and it feels slow to react. Both need Apple to come in and make them work.

Yeah, and I'd lose the ability to side-load books, and would have to void the warranty on the device to be able to read books from non-approved sources.

As someone who's never bought an e-book from Amazon for my Kindle, no thank you.

[+] colin_jack|14 years ago|reply
I agree, I have exactly the same complaints as the author of the article. Some of the issues, like the "full definition" one, are so frustrating I can't believe that Amazon let them through.

The Kindle hardware is great and all but I'm still wishing Apple would get in on the game. Apart from better software they'd address the issue of an elegant screen protecter (as with iPad 2), and the iCloud already synchs highlights to books between devices (even if you didn't buy the books direct from Apple).

[+] ZeroGravitas|14 years ago|reply
I'm beginning to develop a theory that this kind of Apple-fandom is somewhere between being an audiophile and a mentally contagious form of OCD.

I've had complete strangers, totally normal people (picture the exact opposite of a stereotypical techie), raving to me in a shop about how great their Kindle is because they saw me play with the demo device. That's a home run in anyone's language.

But Aaron, who seems to have trained himself to appreciate the finer details, has this joyous experience ruined for him in much the same way a wine snob can no longer enjoy an even passable glass of wine.

I guess the missing factor is how much effort is expended on these nicities versus the return on that investment.

If the text below a main icon is cut off, is that a sign of how shoddily the entire thing is put together, or is it simply not important, compared with the many benefits the device gives you?

[+] JoeAltmaier|14 years ago|reply
Its just annoying, even insulting, that something that could have been fixed, permanently, for everybody, was let out the door with that stain on it. Unlike wine, software CAN be (nearly) perfect for everybody, every time.
[+] tomkarlo|14 years ago|reply
There's a theory of interpersonal relationships that says you need 4-5 positive interactions to balance every 1 negative interaction, if a friendship / relationship is to be sustainable. I'd argue that with devices and software, that ratio goes way up - maybe at least 10:1 or 20:1. That's why even a small annoyance can balance a largely positive experience.
[+] cschep|14 years ago|reply
Aaron! Font size! Bigger!
[+] jc4p|14 years ago|reply
Seriously. I have good eyes but if I have to zoom in at 300% on your page to be able to read it, something is definitely wrong.
[+] Anti-Ratfish|14 years ago|reply
iPhone and double tap font. There's something amusing about reading this particular article on an iPhone more easily than on a computer. Your right, it reads terribly on the desktop computer next to me.
[+] davidw|14 years ago|reply
I love my Kindle. One of the best tech buys in recent memory. The thing I want to be able to do is share books with my wife as if they were 'real books'. In other words, one of us at a time gets a lock on it, but there's no time limit.
[+] sliverstorm|14 years ago|reply
She's your wife. Trade Kindles for the day.
[+] microkernel|14 years ago|reply
I really wonder why no ones mentions typography. In terms of great typesetting the Kindle is somewhere in the 60's. Since at least LaTEX (not talking about Adobe and Apple products) ligatures and other niceties found their way into computers. Any by all means - this is a dedicated reading-machine! I still love my Kindle, mainly for jgrahamc's reasons.
[+] venuj|14 years ago|reply
I used to be quite skeptical of Kindle and a dedicated book reading device until I was gifted a Kindle. My wife got tired of my buying hundreds of books and having it fill up the house and the Kindle TV ad did the trick.

Now that I've used it for a few months, I'm a Kindle convert. I carry it with me all the time - conveniently fits into my coat pocket and weighs so little - and I whip it out whenever I'm a line or at an airport and all those otherwise wasted time.

It has remarkable battery life - I normally get 2-3 weeks between charges - and more if I turn off WiFi. The more I use it, the more I like all the small details which while quirky and not quite upto iPad levels of overall usability adds up to a very convenient book reading experience. I used to lament the space wasted on the physical keyboard but I'm not such a fan of the new touch Kindles.

Now I wish I had all my books on my Kindle.

[+] slyall|14 years ago|reply
I wish they had the same "attention to detail" on their website. One reason I stopped buying from them was every time I went to the website I was bombarded for offers for Amazon Prime, Credits Cards, Free Shipping and other products.

The problem was that if I clicked on any of those offers the website would eventually work out I was a non-US user and tell me I wasn't eligible. But Amazon already knew that when they showed me the offers in the first place.

Any site that has 30% of their frontpage taunting me with cool stuff I can't buy obvious doesn't want me as a customer.

[+] subwindow|14 years ago|reply
So far I've had a pretty frustrating experience with the Kindle (Kindle 4 no keyboard, no touchscreen) from the get-go. Sure, the box was nice, but as soon as I powered it on it was frustrating.

Since the Kindle was a gift, I had to enter in my Amazon account information before I could do anything else. Total buzzkill. I wanted to flip through a book and see what the screen was like and how it worked, but instead I have to laboriously type in my 35-character password like I'm using an NES controller.

After that, there's no sample books on there- you'd think they could put a public domain book on there for free. Every MP3 player I've ever bought comes with a few sample songs. Ok, fine. Now I have to hook it up to my computer via USB. Put an epub file on there. It doesn't support epub? Ok, fine. Put an RTF file on there. That doesn't work. Ok, fine.

Finally put a .txt file on there of a book I'm halfway through the paper version of. Apparently the Kindle has a weird concept of pages for txt documents, so I have to hit the "Next Page" button 97 times, or guess what "location" I'm at (1456 out of 4452 I guess?) and enter that in.

All of that frustration, in the first 30 minutes, just to get an idea of what it is like to read on it and page through a book. Never had that kind of experience with an Apple product. "Unboxing" experiences with Apple products have become a religious experience for a reason. Amazon is still far short of that.

[+] inflatablenerd|14 years ago|reply
Well, compare that to unboxing an Apple product. Like an iPad. Instantly, you have to enter your Apple ID, regardless if you bought it yourself. The device is a brick until this happens. Then, once the set up is complete, the device has zero sample content on there. No music in the music app. No videos. No eBooks. Arguably, the only sample content they provide is web access.

Sound familiar?

[+] dagw|14 years ago|reply
"Unboxing" experiences with Apple products have become a religious experience for a reason

Really? Unboxing my Macbook Air cavalcade of annoyances. First wanting my address and phone number just to boot up, then having to create an Apple account and enter a credit card number just to download the latest updates to the software it ships with. How is that a religious experience?

[+] hyperbovine|14 years ago|reply
.txt files are not paginated to begin with. There is a physical keyboard option available for people who insist on having 35-character passwords.
[+] WalterBright|14 years ago|reply
On the other hand, when you get a Kindle in the mail you don't have to connect it to a computer with iTunes on it to get it to work.

I can also load books from my computer onto the Kindle using drag-and-drop without needing iTunes (or any Amazon software) installed.

[+] phxrsng|14 years ago|reply
My iPods (1G and Video) never had sample songs on them. Just saying.
[+] hexley|14 years ago|reply
Scumbag commenter: has 35 character password for security, discloses precise length of said password publicly anyway.
[+] mih|14 years ago|reply
> small details that delight get buried under small details that annoy

Must point that even Apple software/hardware have their own trivial features that prove to be annoying for some users (remember no right-click anyone?).

Amazon has achieved a very usable device with the Kindle in such a short foray into consumer electronics, for which Apple has had around 3 decades of experience to build on. Here's to hoping attention to detail and UX takes giant strides at Amazon improving upon what is already a very good product.

[+] dfc|14 years ago|reply
Remember no right-click anyone?" I have yet to forget the right click and more importantly middle click...
[+] joezydeco|14 years ago|reply
I have to wonder: does Apple spend more time playing with each new piece of technology internally before releasing it?

I can see in the rush to launch that you can certainly hit 100% of your feature list and still not hit the things that count.

When you see something like a ".com" key on the keyboard whenever an internet address is requested, you have to wonder if it wasn't in the original design but eventually someone played with it enough and thought it up.

[+] MatthewPhillips|14 years ago|reply
I was a big fan of the original Kindle's wheel navigation. It just felt right, like a Model M keyboard.
[+] 6ren|14 years ago|reply
> lifetime unlimited worldwide data plan

Unfortunately the web-browser that makes this useful (beyond buying books) is still labeled "experimental", years later. Meaning it can be dropped at any time.

[+] vegashacker|14 years ago|reply
I didn't know about Kindles being already logged in. That's clever--"out-Apple-ing Apple". I'd worry a bit about package thieves but that's probably mostly irrational.
[+] mikecane|14 years ago|reply
Whatever UI ugliness exists in the Kindle and its apps don't matter much to most Kindle owners. They just want to read. [typo edit]
[+] tlrobinson|14 years ago|reply
I loved my Kindle(s), but the screens are very fragile. I've already cracked two of them.

If you have a Kindle, you need a case, and should never take it out. iPads seem much more durable (and indeed heavier)

[+] danso|14 years ago|reply
"And this is all before I’ve even got to the disastrous incompatibilities between the Kindle device, the Kindle for Mac app, the Kindle for iOS app, the Kindle Online Reader (read.amazon.com), and the kindle.amazon.com social network — all of which are full of gruesome interface annoyances of their own."

I just bought a Kindle, and besides my first attempt at buying one resulted in returning it to Best Buy because of a damaged screen, I love it. I had been reading Kindle books in my iPad and also loved the app experience. Mostly, the ability to highlight and annotate at will, and have an online repository of that to refer to, were the little details that sold me.

But what are the incompatibilities that he refers to?

However, on the $79 kindle, the details are definitely flubbed. The page turning/return/home screen keys make no logical sense. I apparently ordered one of those "Special Offers" by total accident...I must have pressed a confirm button when I meant to press whatever the hell stands for the "Cancel" button.

At $40 (for an interior design class), that's almost half the Kindle retail price. Not a bad monetization plan, I guess.

[+] ianferrel|14 years ago|reply
I'm 100% sure you can cancel whatever you accidentally ordered on Amazon.com.

Just like One-click ordering, the point is to make a purchase easy and let only the people who don't want to go through with it cancel, not to bilk people out of money via misclicks.

[+] dfc|14 years ago|reply
"At $40 for an interior design class"? What is the connection between interior design and the kindle? And/or what is the connection between the monetization plan of a night class at a CC and the kindle?
[+] dfc|14 years ago|reply
Do the special offers have anything to do with your reading materials? Do you have design/architecture books on the kindle? Do you think ther offers targeted towards your demographic?
[+] dfc|14 years ago|reply
You have thirty days to return your "accidentally ordered" kindle. What's the issue?
[+] dfc|14 years ago|reply
I cannot highlight/annotate samples. I have a second generation kindle. Is this a new feature of the newer models?
[+] timdorr|14 years ago|reply
Serious question: Why would you want to highlight or annotate a small sample of a book?
[+] colin_jack|14 years ago|reply
Nope, you just click to start highlighting.