I think this is a cool hack. And I frequently use delayed messages on Google Messages to obscure my late working hours and refrain from disturbing people with a 3AM notification.
But I've thought about this a bit recently, and I don't think I should have to worry about bothering someone at 3 AM. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect other people to have do not disturb on / notifications off whenever they don't want to be disturbed.
And one cautionary tale about scheduling messages (email in particular): I once encountered a problem at 3AM and scheduled an 8AM text to tell someone about it, but they woke up at 6AM and immediately fixed it and were confused why I still had the problem two hours later (when my message arrived).
> But I've thought about this a bit recently, and I don't think I should have to worry about bothering someone at 3 AM. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect other people to have do not disturb on / notifications off whenever they don't want to be disturbed.
I'm very direct about this with new hires.
"I'm awake and work weird hours. Please don't take a message from me outside your normal hours to mean I want or need an immediate response unless the message is directly talking about a production outage in which case i'll be explicit about that. If you're around and you want to spend a few hours debating the merits of embedding a lua interpreter into a data processing pipeline vs trying to figure out how to droplessly reload golang code great, if not, we can pick it up the next time we're both around.
On the same note, please don't not message me because it's late where you think I am at the moment and please don't not let me know about something because 'it's normal US hours, he probably already knows.'
Please also don't take offense if I don't respond immediately, despite appearances, I do sometimes actually sleep."
Setting the actual expectations works great. Some people respond simply by saying that they won't put slack on their phone, or will turn notifications for slack off and I'm fine with that (having their number to call for actual emergencies).
I think the problem arises not from the direct actions here (messaging someone at 3am) but by the implicit expectation of a reply. I think some people don't realize what they're doing but I think a lot do and they want to create that implicit must-reply-24-7 nature.
1) there's this amazing tool that allows you to send a longform communication directly to one or many people where it will get stored and when they're starting their workday they'll see it. it's called e-mail. you should turn off notifications on your phone for e-mail... if a message is urgent, they can call or text.
2) you shouldn't obscure when you're working. creative people often prefer to work late, you should be honest about this so early morning expectations are relaxed. if you're typically a morning person and up on a production issue you should not be expected to be in first thing the next day after staying up late to fix it.
3) all this delayed fake timestamp messaging just contributes to a toxic culture of everybody appearing to be working all the time.
Do not disturb is terrible if you are a part-time caregiver or on pager duty. No phone OS gives enough control over its settings and bad news often arrive from unknown numbers, i.e the hospital, 3rd party robot call service, friend of a friend etc. Speaking from experience.
That’s idealism whereas this hack deals with realism: many people don’t have their notifications setup perfectly and also feel the pressure to respond immediately.
Except for the part where you send me a message at 3 am about a work-related issue while I was placidly browsing Reddit and now you made me worry about work-related issues while on leisure time.
Work-related messages during working hours, please.
I’d be ok with messages in a business app (teams, slack or whatever) at whatever hour. But if people are sending me iMessages to my personal phone number I’d be annoyed at just waking to a bunch of work stuff in there.
Context would really depend on my response to asynchronous messages piling up.
Yeah, it's really weird to have to guess the settings other people desire.
That's why do not disturb on / notifications off is on each of our phones. We control that. I don't expect other people to figure out the right timezone and sleep patterns I have.
> I don't think I should have to worry about bothering someone at 3 AM. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect other people to have do not disturb on / notifications off whenever they don't want to be disturbed.
I don't enable do not disturb for people who think that way. I just block them. If you are rude and entitled enough to decide you can disturb me any time you like, I'll ensure you can't.
3am calls/texts are fine for friends/family with an emergency. I will not let you put them at risk because I needed to dnd my phone because you choose to be a jerk.
That's how my thinking has come around as well and a benefit of maintaining work vs. personal device separation.
If I'm on a work computer/device/profile I don't mind seeing work-related items. Even better if its clear when action is needed.
As many companies become more diverse in working times, trusting individuals to manage it seems like one option while the other is would be patterned off the French "Right to disconnect"
>I don't think it's unreasonable to expect other people to have do not disturb on / notifications off whenever they don't want to be disturbed.
This makes sense in a world where vendors have perfected notifications. IMO, notifications are still a cluster^*&k. This is why they are still very much a moving target for ios.
Most of the time when I delay emails or Slack messages, it’s because I don’t want others to respond until later because of my own busyness or more important items to address today. Scheduling let’s me delay more back-and-forth but with the luxury of queuing my latest message now.
Another common feature of a default app that Apple lacks is having multiple timers on the iPhone clock app. Most often used by my partner when cooking and there are a couple things going that need different times. This is a feature in my Pixel and I just can't understand what reason there is to not include it.
That said though, this is a fantastic work around, I love seeing clever uses of tools to make them do things their creators (probably) didn't necessarily intend.
This is why I always loved jailbreaking my iPhones. Typically there is an app out there somewhere that will do what you want but it was always nice to go to cydia and find a tweak that allowed stock apps and functions to do what they normally would not be able to do.
> so I had come to depend on it in my daily workflow. It’s especially useful in situations where I have a work-related thought at 3AM and don’t want to risk waking up and annoying my co-workers.
At first glance this seems like a perfect match for e-mail instead of iMessage or SMS.
From least to most urgent:
Postcard
E-Mail
Slack
iMessage
SMS
Call
We like it or not, spam, corporate and commercial harassment made so that many people have dropped email for most intra team communication a long time ago and barely check it or only once a week.
Adding a new calendar for this seems odd. You can skip that step and load your messages from the Notes app, or use something like Data Jar [0] to store your messages in the desired structure, alongside the phone number and date/time you expect them to go out on (assuming you have set multiple automations throughout the day that would check if a message needs to be sent out that hour).
Admittedly this is still a bit hacky, but good to see that it's possible.
Why would they be hesitant? Complex user experience?
I'll admit I've never scheduled a message for later, other than on Twitter since I've lived in some awkward time zones relative to the bulk of my mutuals. But I can't come up with a reason why Apple wouldn't want to add it.
I feel like this is trying to dodge IM and email noise fatigue and having that bleed into texts. I'm nocturnal when I have the choice so I understand, but would definitely mute a coworker if they regularly texted me on a schedule for when I wake up.
For what it's worth, our "Groups" app (which has been downloaded by 10 million people in 95+ countries) has offered this kind of feature for years. It lets you set reminders to send mass messages to people. It also does things like list contacts by the time you met them, so if you went to a party last night or a week ago, you can see who you have to follow up with.
We meant to turn it into a full-fledged ORM, but we got busy with the Qbix Platform. Anyway, if you want to give it a try, go here: https://qbix.com/GROUPS
There’s an automation that’s triggered when you receive an email. Coupled with Mail’s “Send later” feature in iOS 16 and some parsing, you can send messages at any time you want.
When shortcuts were first released I immediately tried to implement delayed messaging too. In the end I wasn’t able to get it working and gave up. Great job finding this workaround!
I find as I get older, I want to simplify. I know setting this up would be easy but it’s just one more thing to mess with that isn’t tackling a fundamental issue. The fundamental issue here is why you want to send delayed messages not how.
In my one case, I act as the custodian of the mobile internet provider. the more people I have on my plan, the less everybody else pays (plus much higher leverage w/ the provider). I pay the provider directly, and every individual is expected to pay me their share (including any installment plans on phones).
Instead of manually typing out and sending a response to everybody. Now I can just setup this automation and it will send out my reminder every month. That's 6-7 minutes I save every month just for this use case.
forget work, This would be useful for texting someone you’re interested in that would be wary of someone that text at an odd hour or “too soon”, just send the thing you are thinking of at the time but set a delay!
I ended up configuring the shortcut to use the location field rather than title field. So at least my calendar won't look odd.
Still works as expected. I wasn't entirely sure how to format the text field so it would pick up the phone numbers (in case of group messages). So I just went with my gut and used a space separator for each distinct number and typed the fully qualified number (ie, +1YYYXXXZZZZ)
> Work though at 3am? Sounds like a really unhealthy relationship with work. Not surprised author is from states.
it's common for creative individual contributors to work late and often those kinds of people do their best work late. i'd argue that the way it can become unhealthy is when rigid early work hours lead to sleep deprivation which can damage performance, well-being and overall stability.
Some people (like me) are wide awake at 3AM and have work thoughts then. Others are asleep - we’re all different. I tend to use email drafts or email myself the text with a note to forward it.
[+] [-] texaslonghorn5|3 years ago|reply
But I've thought about this a bit recently, and I don't think I should have to worry about bothering someone at 3 AM. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect other people to have do not disturb on / notifications off whenever they don't want to be disturbed.
And one cautionary tale about scheduling messages (email in particular): I once encountered a problem at 3AM and scheduled an 8AM text to tell someone about it, but they woke up at 6AM and immediately fixed it and were confused why I still had the problem two hours later (when my message arrived).
[+] [-] AdamJacobMuller|3 years ago|reply
I'm very direct about this with new hires.
"I'm awake and work weird hours. Please don't take a message from me outside your normal hours to mean I want or need an immediate response unless the message is directly talking about a production outage in which case i'll be explicit about that. If you're around and you want to spend a few hours debating the merits of embedding a lua interpreter into a data processing pipeline vs trying to figure out how to droplessly reload golang code great, if not, we can pick it up the next time we're both around.
On the same note, please don't not message me because it's late where you think I am at the moment and please don't not let me know about something because 'it's normal US hours, he probably already knows.'
Please also don't take offense if I don't respond immediately, despite appearances, I do sometimes actually sleep."
Setting the actual expectations works great. Some people respond simply by saying that they won't put slack on their phone, or will turn notifications for slack off and I'm fine with that (having their number to call for actual emergencies).
I think the problem arises not from the direct actions here (messaging someone at 3am) but by the implicit expectation of a reply. I think some people don't realize what they're doing but I think a lot do and they want to create that implicit must-reply-24-7 nature.
[+] [-] a-dub|3 years ago|reply
1) there's this amazing tool that allows you to send a longform communication directly to one or many people where it will get stored and when they're starting their workday they'll see it. it's called e-mail. you should turn off notifications on your phone for e-mail... if a message is urgent, they can call or text.
2) you shouldn't obscure when you're working. creative people often prefer to work late, you should be honest about this so early morning expectations are relaxed. if you're typically a morning person and up on a production issue you should not be expected to be in first thing the next day after staying up late to fix it.
3) all this delayed fake timestamp messaging just contributes to a toxic culture of everybody appearing to be working all the time.
[+] [-] diegoperini|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] axg11|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shaky-carrousel|3 years ago|reply
Work-related messages during working hours, please.
[+] [-] duxup|3 years ago|reply
Context would really depend on my response to asynchronous messages piling up.
[+] [-] Xeoncross|3 years ago|reply
That's why do not disturb on / notifications off is on each of our phones. We control that. I don't expect other people to figure out the right timezone and sleep patterns I have.
[+] [-] bigiain|3 years ago|reply
I don't enable do not disturb for people who think that way. I just block them. If you are rude and entitled enough to decide you can disturb me any time you like, I'll ensure you can't.
3am calls/texts are fine for friends/family with an emergency. I will not let you put them at risk because I needed to dnd my phone because you choose to be a jerk.
[+] [-] yellow_postit|3 years ago|reply
If I'm on a work computer/device/profile I don't mind seeing work-related items. Even better if its clear when action is needed.
As many companies become more diverse in working times, trusting individuals to manage it seems like one option while the other is would be patterned off the French "Right to disconnect"
[+] [-] wintermutestwin|3 years ago|reply
This makes sense in a world where vendors have perfected notifications. IMO, notifications are still a cluster^*&k. This is why they are still very much a moving target for ios.
[+] [-] ian_lotinsky|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LeonenTheDK|3 years ago|reply
That said though, this is a fantastic work around, I love seeing clever uses of tools to make them do things their creators (probably) didn't necessarily intend.
[+] [-] ezfe|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MBCook|3 years ago|reply
If I start something on my watch or HomePod why can’t I check in on it on my phone?
Why do I need a set of independent timers for ever Apple device I own?
[+] [-] kmlx|3 years ago|reply
siri supports this. i mainly use it when cooking and need multiple timers.
[+] [-] 14|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yakubin|3 years ago|reply
Edit: it seems there exists an app for that[1]. Gonna try it tomorrow.
[1]: <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/easy-cooking-timer/id492224774>
[+] [-] usrn|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thunfischbrot|3 years ago|reply
At first glance this seems like a perfect match for e-mail instead of iMessage or SMS.
From least to most urgent: Postcard E-Mail Slack iMessage SMS Call
[+] [-] fragmede|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yardstick|3 years ago|reply
Just send an email?
If it doesn’t require an immediate response, use email.
Also if it’s iPhone to iPhone you likely won’t interrupt the other user since they would/should have night mode on anyway.
[+] [-] blinded|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] macintux|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prmoustache|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] avnigo|3 years ago|reply
Admittedly this is still a bit hacky, but good to see that it's possible.
[0]: https://datajar.app/
[+] [-] MBCook|3 years ago|reply
But this is a fantastic shortcut to get around the limitation.
[+] [-] samatman|3 years ago|reply
I'll admit I've never scheduled a message for later, other than on Twitter since I've lived in some awkward time zones relative to the bulk of my mutuals. But I can't come up with a reason why Apple wouldn't want to add it.
[+] [-] Dracophoenix|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pixelrevision|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] green-salt|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EGreg|3 years ago|reply
We meant to turn it into a full-fledged ORM, but we got busy with the Qbix Platform. Anyway, if you want to give it a try, go here: https://qbix.com/GROUPS
[+] [-] sbaildon|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] null0pointer|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kritr|3 years ago|reply
Since the contacts app syncs with the birthday calendar, it’s easy enough to map names to phone numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gXL1S4MnyE
[+] [-] rsync|3 years ago|reply
If I drop my phone in the river I can still send sms from my own phone number.
Not “blue” bubble though…
[+] [-] avel|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ideamotor|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xyst|3 years ago|reply
Instead of manually typing out and sending a response to everybody. Now I can just setup this automation and it will send out my reminder every month. That's 6-7 minutes I save every month just for this use case.
[+] [-] yieldcrv|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xyst|3 years ago|reply
I ended up configuring the shortcut to use the location field rather than title field. So at least my calendar won't look odd.
Still works as expected. I wasn't entirely sure how to format the text field so it would pick up the phone numbers (in case of group messages). So I just went with my gut and used a space separator for each distinct number and typed the fully qualified number (ie, +1YYYXXXZZZZ)
[+] [-] vimy|3 years ago|reply
I used it last month to wish someone happy birthday.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tumdum_|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] a-dub|3 years ago|reply
it's common for creative individual contributors to work late and often those kinds of people do their best work late. i'd argue that the way it can become unhealthy is when rigid early work hours lead to sleep deprivation which can damage performance, well-being and overall stability.
[+] [-] stuartd|3 years ago|reply