[clippablematt]

You should understand that this is a very USA centred opinion. There’s a whole big world of different cultures and politics, and it is possible to believe there are other approaches where we reject violence and authority.

It’s the usual “you’re helping drug dealers/terrorists/North Korea, but what about the children?!” state simping that ignores the violence of the existing systems, and ignores the billions of people in the world who aren’t any of the above and are also benefiting from our attempts to design systems that respect liberty.

I think we absolutely should build infrastructure that allows people within oppressive regimes options with which they can resist, escape, coordinate. For example, we shouldn’t accept that Iranian devs get booted off GitHub.

[SilverBirch]

I absolutely agree we should build infrastructure that allows people within oppressive regimes options with which they can resist, escape and co-ordinate.

Which is why this infrastructure, which is clearly designed to empower those regimes, is bad. Are North Koreans using crypto-currencies? Maybe, it doesn't seem like it. Is the North Korean regime using crypto-currencies? Absolutely, we repeatedly see the North Korean regime stealing, laundering and transferring crypto.

You're advocating for a theoretical possibility of helping dissidents to defend the actual reality which is that crypto is a tool of oppressive regimes.

[_81ih]

I really don't get what the argument is here? NK and others also use Tor, Signal (Protocol), and more. Are they all bad? And why always use the most extreme examples like NK and China?

If US citizens could empathize with people not only from NK, but also from places like Turkey, where the value of our currency has been demolished under the current authoritarian government (and, IMO, they aren't far away from putting limits on buying USD), I think we would have healthier discussions. Now, I can — and am — moving out of the country, but not everyone can. Thinking otherwise is privileged and ignorant thinking.

Of course ETH is not flawless, and if I were in a middle-class family in the US, I would love to have these deep philosophical discussions about if Ethereum is really really decentralized, but the fact remains that cryptocurrencies DO solve real problems, and they DO help more people than they hurt, just like any technology. If this weren't the case, humans would have stoped innovating a long time ago.

[haxiomic]

Turns out North Korea are using crypto! To fund missile programs https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-60281129.amp

The more I think on these things, the more I think trust is a feature, not a bug

[djbebs]

Once you understand that your regime *is* the oppressive regime, you'd understand why this is necessary.

[NovemberWhiskey]

It is not in any sense a USA-centered opinion. Look at the list of countries and supra-national organizations which have comprehensive sanctions in place against North Korea: which include not only the US, but Japan, the European Union, Australia and Taiwan.

You can adopt whatever degree of moral relativism suits your purpose, but there's basically not a lot of people anywhere in the world who are looking at what's happening in North Korea and saying "looks good to me".

[solardev]

To be fair though, those are all Western-aligned countries dependent on US force. They'll typically go along with whatever the US says. They're not exactly vassal states but close enough.

NK is just another tiny country caught in a proxy war between imperialists.

Look at China, which I think is bigger (or nearly so) than all those countries combined, and they don't have nearly as big a problem with NK as we do.

I'm not saying NK is a model country, but the US has a long history of demonizing random small countries to suit its purposes, from Afghanistan to Iraq to NK to Vietnam to much of Central/South America. That we use our military and propaganda to coerce our allies doesn't mean we automatically get the moral high ground. It just means we're the biggest bully.

[blackhaz]

Eh, no. Helping North Korea to bypass international agreements won't help us to "reject violence and authority." What authority are you talking about here specifically, what are you trying to reject?

Throwing an existing system out of the window without offering anything in return is madness. Cryptocurrency won't replace all the financial and government systems that have been developed internationally for years.

How can you help Iranian/Russian people that genuinely would like to reject and escape their current government, without helping that very same government to finance itself?

[totetsu]

Is there a peer to peer way to stop nuclear proliferation?

[oneoff786]

> You should understand that this is a very USA centred opinion

If by USA you mean any country that doesn’t enjoy rogue states which constantly threaten nuclear attacks against others, sure

[yellowapple]

> rogue states which constantly threaten nuclear attacks against others

So... every nuclear power in existence?

[__alexs]

Providing technology to help dissidents is clearly a separate activity from providing technology to help the entire economy of your enemies.

[olalonde]

That's the root of the problem, it usually isn't.

[mike00632]

The entire UN has sanctions against North Korea.

What is a US-centric idea is the thought of helping North Korea because their are an enemy of the United States. If your primary concern is breaking US hegemony then that is a US-centric viewpoint.

[MomoXenosaga]

Amusingly all the crypto tech bros are living in free liberal societies in the West.

[ETH_start]

So are all the people calling for peer-to-peer electronic cash to be banned and the status quo, of a centralized global financial system which cuts off entire countries, to remain in place:

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2020/10/23/money-reimagined-...

[mtremsal]

> You should understand that this is a very USA centred opinion.

Hmm. IMHO libertarianism (which is at the core of the crypto movement) is much more striking as a USA-centric belief system than “KYC / AML is desirable”. In fact, most developed countries seem to have anti money laundering regulations.

Your “what about the children?” is a straw man whereas “you’re helping North Korea” is a fact. See the exponential growth of the ransomware market when cryptocurrencies took of.

We all universally agree that we should build infra that helps people within oppressed regimes. The disagreement is that not only crypto fails to do so meaningfully, it empowers those oppressive regimes by providing them with ways to circumvent trade restrictions.

[nailer]

> There’s a whole big world of different cultures and politics, and it is possible to believe there are other approaches where we reject violence and authority.

The post you're replying to was discussing sanctions, not violence.

[yellowapple]

Sanctions are toothless without the implied threat of violence should said sanctions be ignored.

[Meltion]

I'm a software engineer not a military expert with access to secret information.

My country also takes part in blocking north Korea and I life in a democracy.

It's my duty to not work against it.