From the company that brought us "shadow" profiles, this is fucking risible. "Instead of a Facebook account, you can have a... uh... Fasebook account. Totally different, we swear!"
From Meta's point of view this doesn't change anything.
Your activities and interests on your meta accounts will all be part of the same profile meta keeps on grin your Facebook activity, internet browsing, and anything else they can attach or infer a tracking identity from.
Their "privacy" controls are outward facing - e.g., how your meta account is related to your Facebook profile outside meta, not inside.
This really doesn't seem to be getting to the meat of the matter.
Your neighbor and family may not know that "John Smith" on Facebook is "mariofan#1" playing VR games and "naughty69" doing VR porn, but meta sure will.
The problem isn't that you need a Facebook account, it's that Meta owns Oculus at all. Call the account whatever you want; if I'm a record in any of Meta's databases then I expect to be linked to a shadow profile and surveilled for their profit. The only control I have over the situation is to never agree to any ToS relationship with Meta. There's literally nothing they can do to change this short of selling Oculus to someone else.
The day Meta bought Oculus they killed the platform for privacy-conscious webizens. I say this as someone who would love to try the Soda Island VR experiences and often lament the acquisition.
- why would anyone trust Meta/FB on anything they say or trust them with your data
- FB became popular because it was easy to use, it was just about uploading and commenting on photos. I don't see any of my family members buying a VR device and connect in metaverse
... there is no way ..
- I don't think people will ever use VR devices for the sole purpose of having meeting, video works just fine
The metaverse does not make sense, what it makes sense is AR, and Apple will be the one dominating the space.
- why would anyone trust Meta/FB on anything they say or trust them with your data
Because people don't care about what is done with their data, because it doesn't affect them. This is why FB is still the most used social media site in the world despite all the negativity. People just want a good product and that's what FB gives. That why Instagram and WhatsApp are also extremely popular despite being owned by FB. People just don't give a fuck. Google is still by far the most popular search engine despite many people trying to create search engine that don't track you. All of them failed to take any market share from Google because Google gives people a good product compared to the rest and that's all what people care about.
People just want a good product, they don't care how you do it.
Concur. AR's gonna be the next smartphone, as soon as someone launches successful AR glasses. I'm convinced that several major tech companies are seeing enough progress in their R&D departments (or in others'...) that they believe it's not far off. Dunno why else they'd all keep spending so much on AR features & tech when it's obviously a dead-end outside niche applications, so long as you have to hold a device up to use it. All I can figure is they consider it so beneficial to be ready to go when the hardware finally is, and are so sure that day will come in the not-to-distant-future, that they're willing to burn a lot of cash on it now to make sure they're not left behind.
VR's not gonna be mainstream until after AR is. When decent and non-hideous AR glasses can double as VR devices , that is when it might take off, as a secondary use for those. The current bulky power-sucking ones that look dorky, block your sight, and require a whole lot of open space if you want to use them for much—those are never gonna be mainstream.
Had an extensive conversation with my SO this past weekend about the use of VR tech in education. This was spurred by meeting an individual who was promoting VR for k-12 (I’m in USA) education and that “in 5-10 years kids will all go to school virtually with VR”.
Idk the whole thought of VR as a replacement for the “education system” gives me chills.
I acknowledge the use of VR tech can be correctly implemented as a “tool” but IMO not a sole replacement for “real world” things.
VR to me just seems like tech searching for a use case rather than actually solving a problem - I personally argue this to be similar to crypto currencies.
10 years ago, did you see all your family members keeping a computer with a constant internet connection in their pocket? I think our predictive abilities of the future are often lacking.
The reason to be bearish isn't because of privacy, it's because their existing social networks are declining, and Zuck has hitched his cart to a niche gaming setup.
Just after leaks of a killer VR headset from Valve? No thank you, Meta.
For those not in the know, Valve is coming out with a successor to the Index headset called Valve Deckard. They'll probably announce it later this year. From the leaked information, it looks like an absolute beast of a headset.
I didn't realize the Index was still being sold - it was unavailable so long that I thought they launched it, sold the initial batch, then never made more and abandoned the product. As a result, I wrote Valve off as "launches awesome tech demos but doesn't want to make consumer products".
(I thought they also launched then cancelled another hardware product, but I don't remember details and can't find anything, so my memory may be playing tricks on me? Maybe I subconsciously mixed up the Nvidia Shield and Valve?)
The Deckard seems to be standalone too. That's excellent. In practice, being standalone was a killer feature. You can just grab and use it like a phone, instead of having to boot a PC, mess around with cables, make sure the lighthouses are powered up, inevitably spend the first 15 minutes debugging the setup... (and of course having to own a gaming PC in the first place was also a significant hurdle).
Yes but for how much? The Oculus 2 is crazy cheap and more accessible to a wider audience. I doubt that will be. I imagine ~Facebook~ Meta took a loss on every headset sold.
How exactly does this address the privacy concerns underlying the previous model? They still require me to have a “social” profile. I never agreed to that when I bought my Oculus Rift back in 2016. In effect, my Rift remains bricked unless I agree to have a presence in their dystopian Metaverse. No thank you!
This is a bait and switch. There's no reason to believe that Facebook will remain benevolent in the future. They will switch back to requiring some thing they can use to collect and sell your personal data even if it's not called Facebook. That was the point of them buying Oculus. They never tried to make money on the hardware.
I'm positive they will still correlate activity from your Meta account with your FB. One possible point of this is to keep Meta users with access to their purchased content while Facebook maintains their ability to block/restrict user access on the platform.
> That was the point of them buying (and ruining) Oculus.
The point of them buying Oculus is because MZ thinks that VR might be the future, and he wants to own that space (Lest Facebook fade into irrelevance as a one-trick pony).
I'm of the opinion that the data they could slurp up from mining your VR usage is of limited use, because it won't meaningfully improve ad targeting. And if it doesn't improve ad targeting, there's no reason for advertisers to pay FB more.
> That was the point of them buying Oculus. They never tried to make money on the hardware.
They're not trying to make money from the hardware just like most gaming console companies don't make money from the hardware initially. Meta is trying to dominate the VR app market and make money from the Oculus Store. They'll probably take a similar approach to the App Store and Play Store.
It's a bit pedantic, but Facebook does not sell your personal data. They use it to target advertising. And at this point, every large tech company does the same thing. Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft. They all make significant revenue from advertising and they all use data they collect from you to target ads.
So, not that targeted advertising is so great, but it's looking like pretty much any hardware device from big tech companies in the future is going to work this way. I don't think Facebook is any different from the others any more.
It is an interesting growth play that Meta is doing (putting aside our feelings about it).
By putting out relatively cheap VR headsets and requiring a meta (Facebook) account to use it, they are getting young people signed up for meta. Those young people might not have signed up for Facebook/Meta otherwise. It's a sneaky way to reduce friction and maybe convert young people onto the social media platform.
It also reminds me of how google's social network automatically created profiles on their social media spot. That experiment failed. Will meta's growth play fail?
This is purely me trying to figure out the business angle.
Meta has a VR platform and needs some form of auth. Reusing their existing auth was the lowest friction approach both in development and user experience.
I doubt they care very much about recruiting into their platform through VR. Their main business goal with VR is to own the app marketplace through Oculus Store. So far, they are far ahead of anyone else in the space.
As someone with an Instagram account but not a Facebook account, this does move the needle for me slightly, but my enthusiasm for opening a Meta VR account is only slightly higher than my zero interest in opening a Facebook account.
You'll still need to add an email address, your name, DOB, a phone number, and payment info. To retain your privacy, you can easily create an email alias and put in a fake name and DOB. A paid Twilio number should work. A privacy.com (or similar service) should also work.
We had to cancel an entire program we'd built around Oculus for VR content creation, and I filed an FTC complaint after the Facebook account requirement.
After recent news I decided to give them another chance with a Quest 2, and because my Oculus dev account and the FB profile I closed in 2006 that I tried to merge it with didn't have matching info, I've been locked out. I'm hanging tight until this Meta thing goes into effect to switch, but if it's a hassle, I'll gladly spend up to $800 on a Deckard not to deal with Meta again.
I guess that removes one block from us buying Oculus devices. I still have no clear idea how we buy them for a classroom, but I guess this is a good start. It still sounds like its a Facebook account in another form.
I gave my Quest away when they announced they were requiring a Facebook account. I liked it, but ultimately decided it had been a mistake to use something owned by Facebook, and I should have seen where it would go. Maybe I did, but had been too excited by the idea of VR. I'm not going to buy another device now, expecting that their fundamental nature as a company will eventually win out. It's a frog/scorpion situation with them.
This is really a big move from Meta, and very right one.
Consider how many countries can't directly use Facebook, they had to use a VPN to first login Facebook, then the headsets, its ridiculous. Many novice users have even no idea what is a VPN, so they have to put away the headsets just bought from the online.
I heard many stories of this, now finally changed.
I'm still disappointed that Facebook bought Oculus. I was a big Oculus Rift user, but I switched to a Valve Index when Facebook got involved. I don't want Facebook monetizing my data and my gaming life.
It sucks because the Valve software just isn't anywhere close to being as good. And they haven't shown any meaningful signs of improvement in the last two years. I don't think they are ever going to get it like Oculus used to. I think they'll eventually decide VR is not worth it because of a lack of user engagement, when in reality the problem is that no one wants to constantly fight with Valve's obstinate software just to play VR games.
Only Mark Zuckerberg could possibly announce with a straight face (without apologizing for having made a Facebook login mandatory previously) this, as if he's doing us a favor. The man is a narcissist and megalomaniac
meta (heh): can’t view this page without accepting all cookies, including Facebook ad ones, which it says you can control on your cookie settings page (404 link) but if you don’t have a Facebook account you can’t access
It's not automatic, you have to do it manually. If you don't the device won't work anymore.
> After January 1, 2023, you’ll need to set up a Meta account to continue
using your VR device. When you update your Oculus account to a Meta account, the Supplemental Meta Platforms Technologies Terms of Service and Supplemental Meta Platforms Technologies Privacy Policy will apply to you.
Meta/Facebook is actually a good company, and I trust them. They're really clear about how they use your data, and as far as I can tell (being a FANG worker), you can trust what they say about data usage
In fact, I'd trust them with my data more than a bank (competency is more important)
I am actually no longer working for Meta. I do think the title reflects the news and is factually correct. But happy for @dang to change it back as it’s not exactly the title of the article
Editorializing titles has become completely standard and I rarely see them fixed anymore despite the comments. Of course others also post editorialized titles when they see it happening daily on the front page.
Oh get over it, your hate for FB is noted. The title is accurate, the information is news, and IMO HN users are smart enough to know what a PR release is when they read it.
What are you worried about? That folks will walk this earth thinking you have to use a Meta account instead of a Facebook account to log into your VR app?
To be fair: You needed an Oculus account to use an Oculus, just like you need a Switch account or a Steam account. Hardware with a digital store requires an account.
A Facebook account is much more restrictive than say a Steam account. Facebook tries to get you to use your real name for example. Who in the world wants to use their real name playing a video game?
That's nice, but I still don't trust Meta and will never willingly use their products. The brand is irredeemably tainted because my sense of history goes back decades. I'm not Jesus; I don't forgive and I rarely forget.
bryan0|3 years ago
Great. where can I not signup.
corrral|3 years ago
antiviral|3 years ago
“We do not have an adequate level of control and explainability over how our systems use data,” Facebook engineers say in leaked document.
If that is the case, does it matter whether you have a separate account or not?
https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvmke/facebook-doesnt-know-...
pabs3|3 years ago
jmull|3 years ago
Your activities and interests on your meta accounts will all be part of the same profile meta keeps on grin your Facebook activity, internet browsing, and anything else they can attach or infer a tracking identity from.
Their "privacy" controls are outward facing - e.g., how your meta account is related to your Facebook profile outside meta, not inside.
This really doesn't seem to be getting to the meat of the matter.
Your neighbor and family may not know that "John Smith" on Facebook is "mariofan#1" playing VR games and "naughty69" doing VR porn, but meta sure will.
lancewiggs|3 years ago
Oh who are we kidding. We just can’t trust Meta/FB.
go_elmo|3 years ago
somehnacct3757|3 years ago
The day Meta bought Oculus they killed the platform for privacy-conscious webizens. I say this as someone who would love to try the Soda Island VR experiences and often lament the acquisition.
impulser_|3 years ago
They are okay with this, because that a VERY small portion of the population.
Most people couldn't care less about what a company does with their data as long as they provide a good product.
Patrol8394|3 years ago
- why would anyone trust Meta/FB on anything they say or trust them with your data
- FB became popular because it was easy to use, it was just about uploading and commenting on photos. I don't see any of my family members buying a VR device and connect in metaverse ... there is no way ..
- I don't think people will ever use VR devices for the sole purpose of having meeting, video works just fine
The metaverse does not make sense, what it makes sense is AR, and Apple will be the one dominating the space.
impulser_|3 years ago
Because people don't care about what is done with their data, because it doesn't affect them. This is why FB is still the most used social media site in the world despite all the negativity. People just want a good product and that's what FB gives. That why Instagram and WhatsApp are also extremely popular despite being owned by FB. People just don't give a fuck. Google is still by far the most popular search engine despite many people trying to create search engine that don't track you. All of them failed to take any market share from Google because Google gives people a good product compared to the rest and that's all what people care about.
People just want a good product, they don't care how you do it.
corrral|3 years ago
VR's not gonna be mainstream until after AR is. When decent and non-hideous AR glasses can double as VR devices , that is when it might take off, as a secondary use for those. The current bulky power-sucking ones that look dorky, block your sight, and require a whole lot of open space if you want to use them for much—those are never gonna be mainstream.
dntrkv|3 years ago
You should probably ask the ~4B people that use their services.
dieselgate|3 years ago
Had an extensive conversation with my SO this past weekend about the use of VR tech in education. This was spurred by meeting an individual who was promoting VR for k-12 (I’m in USA) education and that “in 5-10 years kids will all go to school virtually with VR”.
Idk the whole thought of VR as a replacement for the “education system” gives me chills. I acknowledge the use of VR tech can be correctly implemented as a “tool” but IMO not a sole replacement for “real world” things.
VR to me just seems like tech searching for a use case rather than actually solving a problem - I personally argue this to be similar to crypto currencies.
sahila|3 years ago
jonathankoren|3 years ago
dqpb|3 years ago
[deleted]
lordofgibbons|3 years ago
For those not in the know, Valve is coming out with a successor to the Index headset called Valve Deckard. They'll probably announce it later this year. From the leaked information, it looks like an absolute beast of a headset.
tgsovlerkhgsel|3 years ago
(I thought they also launched then cancelled another hardware product, but I don't remember details and can't find anything, so my memory may be playing tricks on me? Maybe I subconsciously mixed up the Nvidia Shield and Valve?)
The Deckard seems to be standalone too. That's excellent. In practice, being standalone was a killer feature. You can just grab and use it like a phone, instead of having to boot a PC, mess around with cables, make sure the lighthouses are powered up, inevitably spend the first 15 minutes debugging the setup... (and of course having to own a gaming PC in the first place was also a significant hurdle).
kilroy123|3 years ago
bombcar|3 years ago
hankman86|3 years ago
camdat|3 years ago
superkuh|3 years ago
neodymiumphish|3 years ago
vkou|3 years ago
The point of them buying Oculus is because MZ thinks that VR might be the future, and he wants to own that space (Lest Facebook fade into irrelevance as a one-trick pony).
I'm of the opinion that the data they could slurp up from mining your VR usage is of limited use, because it won't meaningfully improve ad targeting. And if it doesn't improve ad targeting, there's no reason for advertisers to pay FB more.
dntrkv|3 years ago
They're not trying to make money from the hardware just like most gaming console companies don't make money from the hardware initially. Meta is trying to dominate the VR app market and make money from the Oculus Store. They'll probably take a similar approach to the App Store and Play Store.
lacker|3 years ago
So, not that targeted advertising is so great, but it's looking like pretty much any hardware device from big tech companies in the future is going to work this way. I don't think Facebook is any different from the others any more.
andrewallbright|3 years ago
By putting out relatively cheap VR headsets and requiring a meta (Facebook) account to use it, they are getting young people signed up for meta. Those young people might not have signed up for Facebook/Meta otherwise. It's a sneaky way to reduce friction and maybe convert young people onto the social media platform.
It also reminds me of how google's social network automatically created profiles on their social media spot. That experiment failed. Will meta's growth play fail?
This is purely me trying to figure out the business angle.
dntrkv|3 years ago
Meta has a VR platform and needs some form of auth. Reusing their existing auth was the lowest friction approach both in development and user experience.
I doubt they care very much about recruiting into their platform through VR. Their main business goal with VR is to own the app marketplace through Oculus Store. So far, they are far ahead of anyone else in the space.
tpl|3 years ago
wyldfire|3 years ago
s/Facebook/Meta/g
markstos|3 years ago
prophesi|3 years ago
ipaddr|3 years ago
whywhywhywhy|3 years ago
washadjeffmad|3 years ago
After recent news I decided to give them another chance with a Quest 2, and because my Oculus dev account and the FB profile I closed in 2006 that I tried to merge it with didn't have matching info, I've been locked out. I'm hanging tight until this Meta thing goes into effect to switch, but if it's a hassle, I'll gladly spend up to $800 on a Deckard not to deal with Meta again.
mrkramer|3 years ago
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3yARIfDJrY :)
m4tthumphrey|3 years ago
What a film!
I do not appreciate this work of art being compared to Zucks wet dream tho!
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
bananaoomarang|3 years ago
amelius|3 years ago
protomyth|3 years ago
martindbp|3 years ago
Don't see how this makes sense for VR, where you probably want to hang out with your friends and play games. Followers?
jraph|3 years ago
At last it becomes truly creepy and not just vaguely concerning.
You don't need to be in the street to be followed anymore, you can now stay at home for this.
(please don't take my comment seriously, I just wanted to share a though that was very entertaining to me)
999900000999|3 years ago
The Quest 2 is the only reasonably priced standalone headset.
I'll probably wait until the end of the year though, hopefully ANYONE else will release a solid standalone
karaterobot|3 years ago
user00012-ab|3 years ago
anm89|3 years ago
terrycody|3 years ago
Consider how many countries can't directly use Facebook, they had to use a VPN to first login Facebook, then the headsets, its ridiculous. Many novice users have even no idea what is a VPN, so they have to put away the headsets just bought from the online.
I heard many stories of this, now finally changed.
Good job Meta!
mark_l_watson|3 years ago
If I was starting with a new device with no prior purchases of entertainment content, then I would create an Oculus account.
For me, Oculus is the one really great thing about Meta/Facebook. It is my favorite toy.
D13Fd|3 years ago
It sucks because the Valve software just isn't anywhere close to being as good. And they haven't shown any meaningful signs of improvement in the last two years. I don't think they are ever going to get it like Oculus used to. I think they'll eventually decide VR is not worth it because of a lack of user engagement, when in reality the problem is that no one wants to constantly fight with Valve's obstinate software just to play VR games.
annadane|3 years ago
gpmcadam|3 years ago
GauntletWizard|3 years ago
gaws|3 years ago
Overtonwindow|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
agentultra|3 years ago
jobigoud|3 years ago
> After January 1, 2023, you’ll need to set up a Meta account to continue using your VR device. When you update your Oculus account to a Meta account, the Supplemental Meta Platforms Technologies Terms of Service and Supplemental Meta Platforms Technologies Privacy Policy will apply to you.
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
unboxingelf|3 years ago
rambojazz|3 years ago
saos|3 years ago
kache_|3 years ago
In fact, I'd trust them with my data more than a bank (competency is more important)
ilrwbwrkhv|3 years ago
Cameri|3 years ago
theplumber|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
ProAm|3 years ago
sneak|3 years ago
You can't install any apps on Apple mobile devices without an Apple ID.
amelius|3 years ago
And it will have no adult VR content.
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
micromacrofoot|3 years ago
AbraKdabra|3 years ago
cryptoboy2283|3 years ago
stuaxo|3 years ago
honkler|3 years ago
dljsjr|3 years ago
pesenti|3 years ago
joemi|3 years ago
dang|3 years ago
Thanks!
Tenoke|3 years ago
upupandup|3 years ago
[deleted]
TameAntelope|3 years ago
What are you worried about? That folks will walk this earth thinking you have to use a Meta account instead of a Facebook account to log into your VR app?
markstos|3 years ago
I see what you did there.
georgeecollins|3 years ago
A Facebook account is much more restrictive than say a Steam account. Facebook tries to get you to use your real name for example. Who in the world wants to use their real name playing a video game?
CharlesW|3 years ago
EddieDante|3 years ago
fdgsdfogijq|3 years ago
1. react
2. pytorch
Arguably the two best technology frameworks to come out in the last decade.
corrral|3 years ago
So yes, of course I hate them. Weird that you don't.
humanwhosits|3 years ago
gundamdoubleO|3 years ago
yieldcrv|3 years ago
anm89|3 years ago
bitlax|3 years ago
AbraKdabra|3 years ago