I had this laptop, but ultimately replaced it with a 14” M1 Max. Some thoughts:
- The screen is so much worse, in every way, than a MacBook. A “low resolution” (more like, not high dpi) matte screen vs the M1 screen, there is no comparison. When I first got this machine, my eyes would have to adjust to the screen, and it felt so blurry compared to my works retina Touch Bar Mac
- PopOS is great! It is definitely one of the best Linux desktops I’ve used. Manjaro gives it a nice run for it’s money… But.. next year is going to be the year of the Linux desktop! No disrespect to @jeremy_soller, because he is doing a killer job on Pop, but even in 2022, the Linux desktop is RC Cola, and MacOS is Genuine Coke Cola. I’m sure there are die hard RC Cola fans, but most of the world will definitely still prefer Coke Cola.
- You would need to be pretty comfortable on a command line, and using Linux, to be comfortable using a Linux desktop. This computer would not be okay for my wife.
- The keyboard keys started showing wear and tear after less than 9 months. The keys started to peel, basically, the home-row keys all lost their gloss coat where you could see it visibly that usage had caused a hole in the keys glossy layer.
- I had a fully specced i7, and the performance was great. It out performed my works 2019 i7 MacBook with Touchbar. As for my M1… the M1 is faster.
- I loved how the screen opened all the way 180 degrees, it was something I didn’t think I’d even care about, but it was nice to have.
- The touchpad was like using a Windows machine from 2010. It was so tiny, and had only the bare essential features of registering 1 finger clicks, or 2 finger scrolls. No gestures. No nice click feeling. TINY. THE TOUCH PAD IS SO SMALL. Why do non-Mac Laptop users put up with such small touchpads? It is maddening.
- It would charge over USB-C, but there was only 1 USB-C port, so that was kind of annoying. It did have a regular charger…. That was like the windows laptop I had in 2005. Short cord, and don’t accidentally trip on the cord while it is charging, or else GG laptop.
Overall, I was glad I tried it. For a variety of reasons, I want there to be viable Mac alternatives in the field. I ended up selling my Lemur Pro a few months after I got my 14” M1.
I don't want to comment much on the rest, but the whole trope of: a Linux machine is not for someone who isn't comfortable with the cli" needs to die. My partner is essentially computer illiterate (she didn't know about keyboard shortcuts, even for copy paste before we met and still doesn't really use them) and has been using my old Ubuntu laptop for years. The only thing I do is tell her from time to time not just to click away the update (she is a good example why having optional updates is not a good thing). Her issues are pretty much the same she would have for a Windows or Mac machine, usually related to how something in a word processor works. Also my mother (78yo) is using Linux as a only system, and she does a lot of photography and video work. She has actually even become quite competent with the cli by now, just because she likes to try stuff.
I don't know who decided shinny screens are better but they aren't for me. Maybe they slightly reproduce color more accurately but most people are not graphic designers.
Matt screens exist for a reason and can't just dismiss them as being inferior when they specifically solve a problem many have.
Maybe they sell better in a store but so do touch screens in cars. Once you however want to use them you realize the mistake you made.
I hate this world we are turning into where we redesign things for the worse because "look it's shiny". For me a laptop is a utility item and I need it to work. It needs to be able to use the CPU in it and not be throttled down to crap so it can be in a thin case.
>THE TOUCH PAD IS SO SMALL. Why do non-Mac Laptop users put up with such small touchpads? It is maddening.
Some of these points are subjective. I used to be an Apple touchpad evangelist, but at some point they switched to having enormous touchpads without any buttons. (the touchpad is the button) I had a touchbar Macbook Pro, and I'd get accidental input from the touchpad with good regularity. I wanted the touchpad from a 2007 Macbook Pro.
> The touchpad was like using a Windows machine from 2010. It was so tiny, and had only the bare essential features of registering 1 finger clicks, or 2 finger scrolls. No gestures.
My experience is the opposite. My System76 has better gestures than the MacBook it replaced, particularly since the gestures are easily configurable per-app.
Once the fanless M1 air came out, I could not use anything else. I pray the rumored 15 inch M2 air is also fanless with huge battery life and more ports.
My S76 laptop just annoyed me. It was fine for a linux machine, but there was just so many little details, build quality, etc I missed from the mac. I also found a few bugs in their custom pop packages and I reported them. The first engineer that responded was honestly pretty rude and implied I didn't know what I was talking about. A second engineer responded and said in fact one of the things I reported was true and hard to fix unfortunately. About a month later I noticed an update went out that fixed the other thing I reported.
> the Linux desktop is RC Cola, and MacOS is Genuine Coke Cola
It all depends on how you want to use the computer and what are your daily driver apps.
Gnome Shell and KDE are wonderfully polished and work great also with multiple monitors out of the box, XFCE is pretty fast and functional.
About your wife that can't use it? Mine is using Manjaro+KDE since years and never had problems, the switch from then-Windows 7 world was pretty no-brainer. It all burns down on how you approach a new system.
I have a 17" Oryx Pro that I've been using as my daily driver for work. It's basically a luggable, but I mostly love it.
The thing I really miss from my old Apple laptop though is rock-solid suspend behavior. I feel like I can leave my Macbook closed for a week, and it will barely lose any battery life. When I bring home my System76 and leave it in my bag over the weekend, it will always be dead by Monday morning.
I'm wondering with the (permanent?) switch to work from home if laptop sales will go down.
I've replaced both my personal and work laptops with System76 Meerkat mini PCs both running stock Unbuntu using Regolith for the desktop environment (https://system76.com/desktops/meerkat). They are stacked on top of each other on my desk and take up next to no space.
I work from home (and have since 1999) and don't travel for work (since Covid) so I have no need for laptops now. I have a larger monitor and for now I'm using an old USB switcher to share a wireless connection for my keyboard and mouse and use the input switcher on my monitor to switch between machines. In the future I may get an integrated hdmi/usb switch.
Has anyone else abandoned their laptops in favor of desktop/mini PCs?
I haven't; i have an office with a screen, physical mouse and keyboard, but it still gets plugged into the laptop.
I can take the laptop to the kitchen, living room or garden if I so please. I can take it out of town or abroad. A desktop... I mean, i could take with me but not so easily.
But a laptop still gives you the option to go work in a park or a café. Anything taxing can be done on a remote server anyway so raw power hardly matters.
Personally I don't think I'll ever get a desktop setup.
Sorta. I like having flexibility and staying dynamic. I will often jump back and forth between my desk (M1 Mac mini) and my laptop (MacBook pro) to wander around my house on the couch or sometimes outside if the weather is nice.
Having your compute/dev take place on a separate box and using these machines as thin clients helps too. My personal machines are mostly just editors now, not running any hefty code processes.
lol in my country (south africa) we got blessed with 'load shedding'. i.e the state owned power utility Eskom, switch of our electricity for 2.5 hours up to x3 a day. As there is not enough capacity.
So one huge advantage of laptops are a)they run on batteries
b) If you do need to run the laptop of an inverter(i dare not say ups) its much easier to power for longer.
OOI, why System76 for those? As far as I can tell they're just off-the-shelf NUCs, and System76 are ~$200 more for a sensible spec than buying the NUC, some RAM and a good NVMe drive yourself.
How do you find them for noise? I had an 8th gen NUC that was unbearable under high CPU load - I replaced it with a slightly larger ASRock DeskMini X300 with Ryzen 5750GE and Noctua AM4 cooler that is silent, even under full load.
I bought a MacStudio after years of being burned by Apples poor thermals. Turns out there’s basically zero advantage over the current MacBook Pro. Kind of wish I had just gotten the MBP so I could work on the couch or bring it on vacation, although my wife noted she was glad I didn’t have my laptop over the fourth this year.
I refuse to use laptops. They are not ergonomic, and by not using them I free my mind from work in more circumstances, which I consider to be a good thing.
(Using classic desktop Linux machines at work and at home)
I never abandoned desktops for laptops (I use them only for travel), but many people don't have a dedicated office space at home so a laptop is their only real option.
It really depends on the use-case, and need for convenience. With a laptop (assuming it's not a desktop-replacement style brick) it's easy to use it in a lounge chair outside, or on a couch in the living room, or to take it over to a friend's house to show something.
Many people don't even use computing-intensive tasks.
So, I don't really see the switch to working at home really changing user preferences. I could be wrong, but we'll see.
I got an Hp prodesk for a something like 140 bucks (8500t) a couple of years ago from a company that went bankrupt.
My laptop stopped working and I never got a new one.
Now I have a proper monitor (4k, 27 inch), proper keyboard (Matias quiet click), a proper mouse (Logitech trackball), and a proper webcam (some cheap 1080p one I bought from amazon that beats everything in a laptop).
Sure have. Just set up a Mac mini a few months ago. Been very happy with the decision. My laptop is for where I go to the office - it’s an M1 MBPro they bought me so I flip between machines very easily.
Yes! I bought a used iMac 27 inch. It's beautiful screen but still getting used to the OS. I sold my Dell 9700 which was giant and kept my carbon X1 for loungeroom.
One design choice I love here is having the track pad centered on home row, instead of centered on the laptop body. Lenovo has the same orientation. I recently had to switch back to a body centered track pad for work and now I'm aware of the contortions my right hand has to perform in order to type while also resting on the laptop. It slows me down and increases typos. For anyone who types with all 10 fingers, a home row centered track pad is the only serious option.
A well designed trackpad will have virtually flawless palm rejection, which means it shouldn't matter. I'm not sure how that fares outside of Apple machines though.
I'm not a fan of having my laptop maker's logo plastered on the exterior of my laptop but it is unavoidable these days. The System76 logo on this laptop is an especially egregious example of this. It alone would prevent me from considering purchasing one. I'll be looking elsewhere next year when I am due to upgrade which is unfortunate because I am a fan of Pop!_OS and would otherwise have considered System76.
Edit: A comment says the logo on the System76 laptop is an easy to remove sticker so this might be a non-issue.
When the time comes for a new laptop, I would get a System76. The fact they somewhat disable Intel ME is a big plus for me. But I know I would miss the trackpoint.
My only main requirement is the hardware needs to support Slackware and Open/Net BSD.
The "14 hours" is a huge exaggeration, but that's to be expected; every advertised battery life I've ever seen is a huge exaggeration. But I have to strongly vouch for this one; it's the first laptop I've seen that actually can actually last more than seven whole hours with Linux. Every other laptop I've tried lasts under four hours, even if it advertises twenty.
It says 14 hour battery life but how can anyone tell about future longevity? I usually find any other laptop than a macbook has poor long term life. For example I have my macbook (this isn't a pro Apple post but they have damn good battery life and power efficiency) that lasts 10 or more hours after 3-4 years and then a Dell precision 5540 that lasts 10 minutes after 1 year. These aren't exact figures but you get the picture. Is there somehow to calculate this comparison/benchmark against multiple workbooks with different hardware and claims with all the usage aside. Don't say "well if you use it more and has more apps open..." or "the operating system uses blah blah blah" just hardware specific benchmark agnostic of apps and os, etc.
I own a System 76 laptop (the Oryx) and ultimately bought a MacBook Air m1 to replace it. I'm not sure how many people know this, but S76 doesn't make their own hardware and instead uses repackaged Clevo laptops. These machines are cheap, ugly, and heavy. Nothing about them feels particularly high quality. They charge a premium price so I'd expected more and was disappointed. Knowing what I know now, I would have gotten a Framework laptop for a first class linux experience.
All that said, PopOS is my distro of choice. They really got a lot right there IMO. If they can get it together on the hardware front, might be worth another look in the future.
Man I wish System76 or Framework or someone else could make hardware as nice as Apple. I just ordered an M2 Air which I will be primarily running Linux on. I'm replacing my Lenovo T480s (which was a great laptop) because I want _nice_ hardware. There are just so few options that even come close to competing with Apple.
good to see linux being sold in laptop out of the box. this means, hopefully that bugs that the linux community was used to, because everyone knew it and didn't bother fixing are getting fixed because linus managed to break Pop os in the first command.
stuff like what kde is doing with their "15-Minute Bugs" are great initiatives. this will definitely help the overall linux software become more rugged and idiot friendly
Apple's 20-hours claims are actually real. I wonder how real these are. My experience with Linux has seen claims like this melt down to 2-3 hours in normal use.
A reasonably priced upscale Linux laptop with open firmware, named after my favorite animal, and a mechanical keyboard. Wow I can't remember the last time some product came along that sounds so perfect for me. I really want to try this because there's no way this can't be awesome. It's like they read our minds and put everything we wanted but never imagined we'd get in one product.
- increase screen size to at least 15.5" because small screen is unusable for programming and for browsing modern websites with large font size and large pictures
- use IPS panel (can increase cost)
- make arrow keys full size (doesn't cost anything)
- add 7 keys for additional Cyrillic letters and 2 keys to switch between layouts (doesn't cost anything)
- add 3 USB ports and Ethernet (doesn't noticeably increase cost)
- increase RAM limit to 128 Gb (shouldn't cost anything, it is probably just a software limitation)
- use standard 3.5mm audio jacks
Using a better LCD panel can increase cost, so here is how this can be conpensated:
- use an older cheaper CPU. Newest CPUs usually have lower performance to cost ratio and therefore it doesn't make sense to buy them. Also why pay for 10 cores when most of the time you will be using 1 or 2?
- support cheaper HDD instead of SSD
- remove unnecessary speakers
- remove unnecessary keyboard backlight. Using laptop in darkness is bad for eyes anyway.
Also I am surprised that a modern i7 CPU that costs over $470 has just 12Mb cache. You can (probably) buy an old CPU with more cache for smaller price.
[+] [-] jmondi|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cycomanic|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sschueller|3 years ago|reply
Matt screens exist for a reason and can't just dismiss them as being inferior when they specifically solve a problem many have.
Maybe they sell better in a store but so do touch screens in cars. Once you however want to use them you realize the mistake you made.
I hate this world we are turning into where we redesign things for the worse because "look it's shiny". For me a laptop is a utility item and I need it to work. It needs to be able to use the CPU in it and not be throttled down to crap so it can be in a thin case.
[+] [-] throwawaymaths|3 years ago|reply
- dual monitors were detected only as one monitor, and we're mirrored.
- USB mouse (I disprefer Bluetooth mice) would have to be unplugged and plugged back in if the laptop went to sleep
- no home/end keys
- I had installed all of my corporate 2FA stuff on safari and safari would randomly drop me from Google meets. No other browser had this issue.
The ctl/option madness definitely tanked my productivity while I had the laptop but I figure I would have learned it eventually.
[+] [-] everdrive|3 years ago|reply
Some of these points are subjective. I used to be an Apple touchpad evangelist, but at some point they switched to having enormous touchpads without any buttons. (the touchpad is the button) I had a touchbar Macbook Pro, and I'd get accidental input from the touchpad with good regularity. I wanted the touchpad from a 2007 Macbook Pro.
[+] [-] kibwen|3 years ago|reply
My experience is the opposite. My System76 has better gestures than the MacBook it replaced, particularly since the gestures are easily configurable per-app.
[+] [-] pachico|3 years ago|reply
To be fair, I don't even consider apple laptops mainly for this reason.
[+] [-] victorvosk|3 years ago|reply
My S76 laptop just annoyed me. It was fine for a linux machine, but there was just so many little details, build quality, etc I missed from the mac. I also found a few bugs in their custom pop packages and I reported them. The first engineer that responded was honestly pretty rude and implied I didn't know what I was talking about. A second engineer responded and said in fact one of the things I reported was true and hard to fix unfortunately. About a month later I noticed an update went out that fixed the other thing I reported.
[+] [-] madduci|3 years ago|reply
It all depends on how you want to use the computer and what are your daily driver apps.
Gnome Shell and KDE are wonderfully polished and work great also with multiple monitors out of the box, XFCE is pretty fast and functional.
About your wife that can't use it? Mine is using Manjaro+KDE since years and never had problems, the switch from then-Windows 7 world was pretty no-brainer. It all burns down on how you approach a new system.
[+] [-] rcv|3 years ago|reply
The thing I really miss from my old Apple laptop though is rock-solid suspend behavior. I feel like I can leave my Macbook closed for a week, and it will barely lose any battery life. When I bring home my System76 and leave it in my bag over the weekend, it will always be dead by Monday morning.
[+] [-] dugmartin|3 years ago|reply
I've replaced both my personal and work laptops with System76 Meerkat mini PCs both running stock Unbuntu using Regolith for the desktop environment (https://system76.com/desktops/meerkat). They are stacked on top of each other on my desk and take up next to no space.
I work from home (and have since 1999) and don't travel for work (since Covid) so I have no need for laptops now. I have a larger monitor and for now I'm using an old USB switcher to share a wireless connection for my keyboard and mouse and use the input switcher on my monitor to switch between machines. In the future I may get an integrated hdmi/usb switch.
Has anyone else abandoned their laptops in favor of desktop/mini PCs?
[+] [-] rich_sasha|3 years ago|reply
I can take the laptop to the kitchen, living room or garden if I so please. I can take it out of town or abroad. A desktop... I mean, i could take with me but not so easily.
[+] [-] lordnacho|3 years ago|reply
Personally I don't think I'll ever get a desktop setup.
[+] [-] whalesalad|3 years ago|reply
Having your compute/dev take place on a separate box and using these machines as thin clients helps too. My personal machines are mostly just editors now, not running any hefty code processes.
[+] [-] rawoke083600|3 years ago|reply
So one huge advantage of laptops are a)they run on batteries
b) If you do need to run the laptop of an inverter(i dare not say ups) its much easier to power for longer.
[+] [-] minimaul|3 years ago|reply
How do you find them for noise? I had an 8th gen NUC that was unbearable under high CPU load - I replaced it with a slightly larger ASRock DeskMini X300 with Ryzen 5750GE and Noctua AM4 cooler that is silent, even under full load.
[+] [-] donatj|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amelius|3 years ago|reply
(Using classic desktop Linux machines at work and at home)
[+] [-] ChuckNorris89|3 years ago|reply
Don't know where you live but where I do (Austria) nearly all companies, big or small, have employees back into the office.
[+] [-] fmajid|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ruq|3 years ago|reply
It really depends on the use-case, and need for convenience. With a laptop (assuming it's not a desktop-replacement style brick) it's easy to use it in a lounge chair outside, or on a couch in the living room, or to take it over to a friend's house to show something.
Many people don't even use computing-intensive tasks.
So, I don't really see the switch to working at home really changing user preferences. I could be wrong, but we'll see.
[+] [-] wooque|3 years ago|reply
Ability to take your computer to couch, bed, terrace, park, etc is irreplaceable.
I do wonder why desktops still exist.
[+] [-] beanjuiceII|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] benibela|3 years ago|reply
They go up
My employer bought me a laptop to work on it during covid.
[+] [-] bjoli|3 years ago|reply
My laptop stopped working and I never got a new one.
Now I have a proper monitor (4k, 27 inch), proper keyboard (Matias quiet click), a proper mouse (Logitech trackball), and a proper webcam (some cheap 1080p one I bought from amazon that beats everything in a laptop).
[+] [-] Forgeties79|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] farmin|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MattGaiser|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tolger|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shreyshnaccount|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unrealhoang|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adsteel_|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BillinghamJ|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hedora|3 years ago|reply
If you look at the top down picture of the keyboard above "tech specs", you'll see that this laptop fails on both accounts. :-(
[+] [-] tssva|3 years ago|reply
Edit: A comment says the logo on the System76 laptop is an easy to remove sticker so this might be a non-issue.
[+] [-] jmclnx|3 years ago|reply
My only main requirement is the hardware needs to support Slackware and Open/Net BSD.
[+] [-] vbuterin|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fio_ini|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jef_leppard|3 years ago|reply
All that said, PopOS is my distro of choice. They really got a lot right there IMO. If they can get it together on the hardware front, might be worth another look in the future.
[+] [-] psanford|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 2Gkashmiri|3 years ago|reply
stuff like what kde is doing with their "15-Minute Bugs" are great initiatives. this will definitely help the overall linux software become more rugged and idiot friendly
[+] [-] nicexe|3 years ago|reply
The choices for RAM configuration come down to 8GB, 2x8GB, 8GB + 16GB and 8GB + 32GB.
That makes the second option the only dual channel configuration. Going past 2x8GB is not a real upgrade but more like a side-grade.
[+] [-] solarkraft|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smcleod|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cpursley|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MasterYoda|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sampa|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jart|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] I_am_tiberius|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codedokode|3 years ago|reply
- increase screen size to at least 15.5" because small screen is unusable for programming and for browsing modern websites with large font size and large pictures
- use IPS panel (can increase cost)
- make arrow keys full size (doesn't cost anything)
- add 7 keys for additional Cyrillic letters and 2 keys to switch between layouts (doesn't cost anything)
- add 3 USB ports and Ethernet (doesn't noticeably increase cost)
- increase RAM limit to 128 Gb (shouldn't cost anything, it is probably just a software limitation)
- use standard 3.5mm audio jacks
Using a better LCD panel can increase cost, so here is how this can be conpensated:
- use an older cheaper CPU. Newest CPUs usually have lower performance to cost ratio and therefore it doesn't make sense to buy them. Also why pay for 10 cores when most of the time you will be using 1 or 2?
- support cheaper HDD instead of SSD
- remove unnecessary speakers
- remove unnecessary keyboard backlight. Using laptop in darkness is bad for eyes anyway.
Also I am surprised that a modern i7 CPU that costs over $470 has just 12Mb cache. You can (probably) buy an old CPU with more cache for smaller price.