In Ireland, the minimum wage is €10.50 per hour and the standard work week is 40 hours, that works out to €420 full time minimum wage per week.
At Dublin Airport, security staff are only guaranteed 20 hours per week, need to be available for 40 hours per week, and entry level workers are paid €14.14 per hour.
Guaranteed pay: €282.80 per week, i.e. 67% of the minimum wage.
Are there any surprises why there are staff shortages?
I don't get why this is difficult: charge the airlines more money. They will charge the passengers more money.
Either there will then be fewer flights and passengers, and the existing staff count can handle it, or there will be the same number of flights and enough money to hire more staff to handle it.
> Just your daily reminder that there are no “chronic staff shortages”. There are only “below market wages”.
To be fair to the airport, it's not just pay: it's also waiting for enhanced background checks to complete, for staff to be trained, increased numbers of staff off sick, etc. etc.
The vast majority of the aviation industry even at the early of 2022 wasn't expecting the resurgence in passengers numbers that has been seen.
It's a mess out there. Barcelona/Frankfurt/Munich are still solid options for connections into Europe but Amsterdam/Dublin/London/Paris are not great.
A friend of mine had to fight to get his bag in Dublin. His AirTags showed that his bag was in the baggage claim area and led him to a room where they were storing bags. He pointed it out and said, "that's mine" but was told he couldn't get it. After quite a bit of arguing he finally just walked over and took it.
I've just come back from holiday via Heathrow - having had my original flights cancelled by BA at the last minute. The experience of getting back through passport control was pretty bad - took about an hour, with the usual combination of poor queue management, useless e-gates and only 2 passport control staff initially on duty to take those who the e-gates failed for (which was about 50%, and always happens to me as I have a common name so there are always people wanted with my name, according to local passport officers).
It certainly wasn't this bad last time I flew via there (pre-pandemic, I'm not a regular flier), but something needs to be done, for sure.
Earlier it was Schiphol, now Heathrow... I wonder why there's such an issue with airports.
Of course the direct answer is "inadequate staff" but the next question is why is that so much more now? Why aren't the airports doing more to entice workers like perhaps better benefits, pay or flexibility? Are airports already operating at thin margins? (If anyone from the aero industry could comment that would be great!) Did they overestimate the downturn due to covid? Are traffic volumes legitimately larger than what was expected/predicted in 2022 (even ignoring covid's drop)?
What I heard (and there is a lot on conjecture involved) is that lots of staff were layed off or put on part time during covid. Now travel levels are coming up to precovid times and much previous staff has moved on. On the other hand, the airports are not really offering significantly increased salaries. In general it seems that there is strong reluctance to adjust salaries for workers despite the increased demand.
> Of course the direct answer is "inadequate staff" but the next question is why is that so much more now?
Simple: here in Germany, all workers at airports authorized to enter controlled zones have to pass an extensive background check, a process that takes 3-4 months under normal conditions [1]. During COVID, a lot of these workers were laid off instead of being placed under the employment protection program or left entirely since the Kurzarbeit only paid out 60% of already extremely low wages (14€/h for baggage handlers, [0]). They found other employment and won't come back - to make it worse, airports are usually well outside the city borders, so there's an awful lot of commute involved at a time when public transport doesn't run as well.
> Why aren't the airports doing more to entice workers like perhaps better benefits, pay or flexibility?
There has been a continuous pressure on costs everywhere at airports, which means the airports themselves have not much flexibility on raising fees to account for increased costs, and the companies providing the services like baggage handling, refueling and whatever usually won their contracts by tender which means they are locked in as well by law.
The job roles involved (security staff, baggage handlers, cabin crew) often have poor pay and undesirable working arrangements (e.g. unsociable hours).
The current high level of employment means people are able to choose to not do that kind of undesirable work.
When Airports and Airlines do manage to find staff to fill the jobs, they have to go through a government background check process for security reasons. That process has a huge backlog at the moment.
When travel picked back up they tried to employ people. They failed because
1) Brexit -- many people who were laid off in the UK returned to their country of origin
2) Security clearance -- there is a massive backlog getting security clearance (for things like airside passes) in the UK
BA ground crew were recently on strike because they're being paid less than they were in 2019 for the same job (which was already a low wage), even before inflation. There's better jobs to go to with better hours and better conditions.
I suspect BA and co are hoping to get some form of P&O style deal where they can employ people who aren't UK citizens in the airports on a low wage that someone with full access to the labour market wouldn't take.
Aside from the issues that others have mentioned (Brexit, security clearances), the UK is in the middle of a huge BA.5 Covid wave. Estimates are something around 1 in 25 people had it last week, and it's getting worse. That's driving a lot of staff absences.
You realize there's a worldwide pandemic going on that's causing people to be sick for days and weeks at a time, repeatedly, right? And that nearly all airports and airlines have given up the most basic mitigations like mask wearing mandates to prevent spread.
I flew out of Schipol yesterday. Everything was fine at the KLM check in counter and gate, and at passport control. But they were short of security screening staff and it took an hour to get through the line.
For relatively little money, the private terminal services offer you a very high quality stress-free experience. No need to navigate crowded airports or tow your luggage around. They’ll drive you from a comfortable lounge straight to the plane (and vice-versa). For passport control, you just sit in a comfy armchair as the border force girl comes to check your documents.
Depending on the airline and airport you depart from, your luggage will often get binned separately in order to guarantee a super fast delivery to the VIP terminal.
> Prices for the Black service start at GBP £2,750 + VAT for up to 3 persons for an arriving or departing flight, as well as those on flights connecting within 3 hours.
Ah! I took first class from NYC to London as a treat to myself once (using a RTW fare). On the flight there Keith Richards was sitting a few seats away. Cool guy, gave me shit about it being "the wrong time to use the loo" while I was waiting near the end of the flight. After we landed, he got off before everyone and got into a black car like this - I had always wondered how one goes and does that.
> They’ll drive you from a comfortable lounge straight to the plane (and vice-versa). For passport control, you just sit in a comfy armchair as the border force girl comes to check your documents.
For some airports you don't have to pay for a separate extra service for this, flying first class with the right airline at the right airport will get you that. I'm trying to remember where I did this - I think it was Taipei. Wherever it was, I didn't have a black car, but a thing resembling a baggage cart that played Fur Elise to let people know I was coming. I don't think I would use the cart service again, but the checkin experience was nice.
Don't you just get out of the car and walk up the stairs and tell the pilot you are ready to go?
Protip: have your staff book a car for your luggage, saves having to wait for someone to unload your luggage from the plane, you can just get into the waiting car on the tarmac and go.
Super protip: have your luggage shipped ahead and unpacked in advance of your arrival.
Is this phenomenon a psychology trick? Most folks doing bad stuff are guys, so have a hot young woman ask the questions to throw them off and make it harder to lie?
I've wondered whether it's a deliberate tactic employed by some border controls since I stepped off a plane in Canada and saw that every single one of the half-dozen folks doing our "what are you doing in Canada?" Q&A stuff was a very attractive, put-together young woman. Like, that's a hell of a coincidence if it's not intentional.
> Prices for the Black service start at GBP £2,750 + VAT for up to 3 persons for an arriving or departing flight, as well as those on flights connecting within 3 hours.
For perspective, LHR-JFK is around £500 return including taxes for one adult in economy, or £850 for premium economy.
The last two words in that sentence are pretty important "PER DAY"
>"Kaye’s solution is to cap Heathrow passenger numbers at 100,000 per day for the Summer period" ... "the closure for sale of all flights departing from the airport until 11th September a reduction in the current passenger cap from 101,500 to 100,000"
meaning every day until 9/11 1.5k people aren't getting a seat they paid for
> This would be fine, except that airlines have already sold an avereage of 101,500 tickets per day and seats are still on sale.
My understanding is that based on existing sales alone, there are already 101,500 passengers/day. And in order to get 100,000, they have asked airlines to not sell any more tickets at all.
If you imagine that airlines were previously planning to sell a further 20,000 tickets per day, and they cut that down to 0-100 per day, that's a huge drop that is sure to impact anyone looking to buy tickets at this time.
One big issue is self-inflicted: Heathrow (maybe all of UK) steadfastly refuse to implement one-stop-security, so everyone transiting goes through x-ray and gets their carryon re-scanned.
One interesting tidbit that I forgot about... Heathrow is heavily slot controlled. The options the airport is giving airlines is:
1) Cancel flights
2) Operate with lower loads on the existing flights
#1 is the best option as it reduces the number of staff needed on the ground and in the air but airlines are likely going to go with #2 because they don't want to risk this edict from the airport going on long enough to threaten their slots. And regulators are not budging. They actually come out and said that any slots not used, even for capacity reasons, will be returned and are not exempt.
Much of this is whipsaw effect. First the pandemic dramatically dropped air traffic, then recovery saw relatively high rates of travel return. Staffing would be pressed to keep up even if wages were good.
Good luck with that! I just spent an evening watching a commercial TV channel (in UK) and every other commercial was for booking your holiday by air. Deserted beaches, only ones at the pool, no restaurant queues.. wonderful! If you can get a flight. Yes, I realise buying ad slots are bought well in advance, but there's something dishonest about this.
I find it truly baffling how articles nowadays have three headlines: the one in the URL, the one in the page title (shown by the browser) and the actual one on the page:
RTFA: Kaye’s solution is to cap Heathrow passenger numbers at 100,000 per day for the Summer period, which they are specifying as ending on 11th September.
[+] [-] shaicoleman|3 years ago|reply
At Dublin Airport, security staff are only guaranteed 20 hours per week, need to be available for 40 hours per week, and entry level workers are paid €14.14 per hour.
Guaranteed pay: €282.80 per week, i.e. 67% of the minimum wage.
Are there any surprises why there are staff shortages?
1. https://extra.ie/2022/03/31/news/daa-taoiseach-criticised-du...
[+] [-] mabbo|3 years ago|reply
Either there will then be fewer flights and passengers, and the existing staff count can handle it, or there will be the same number of flights and enough money to hire more staff to handle it.
This is how a free market economy works, right?
[+] [-] pcurve|3 years ago|reply
You WILL lose your luggage and it will take days to get it back! DAYS! If you HAVE to, make sure to have enough supplies in your carry-on.
[+] [-] jmyeet|3 years ago|reply
Second, if you’re a baggage handler your only wary to improve your conditions of through labor organization.
[+] [-] gsnedders|3 years ago|reply
To be fair to the airport, it's not just pay: it's also waiting for enhanced background checks to complete, for staff to be trained, increased numbers of staff off sick, etc. etc.
The vast majority of the aviation industry even at the early of 2022 wasn't expecting the resurgence in passengers numbers that has been seen.
[+] [-] pdx_flyer|3 years ago|reply
A friend of mine had to fight to get his bag in Dublin. His AirTags showed that his bag was in the baggage claim area and led him to a room where they were storing bags. He pointed it out and said, "that's mine" but was told he couldn't get it. After quite a bit of arguing he finally just walked over and took it.
[+] [-] djaychela|3 years ago|reply
It certainly wasn't this bad last time I flew via there (pre-pandemic, I'm not a regular flier), but something needs to be done, for sure.
[+] [-] user_7832|3 years ago|reply
Of course the direct answer is "inadequate staff" but the next question is why is that so much more now? Why aren't the airports doing more to entice workers like perhaps better benefits, pay or flexibility? Are airports already operating at thin margins? (If anyone from the aero industry could comment that would be great!) Did they overestimate the downturn due to covid? Are traffic volumes legitimately larger than what was expected/predicted in 2022 (even ignoring covid's drop)?
[+] [-] cycomanic|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mschuster91|3 years ago|reply
Simple: here in Germany, all workers at airports authorized to enter controlled zones have to pass an extensive background check, a process that takes 3-4 months under normal conditions [1]. During COVID, a lot of these workers were laid off instead of being placed under the employment protection program or left entirely since the Kurzarbeit only paid out 60% of already extremely low wages (14€/h for baggage handlers, [0]). They found other employment and won't come back - to make it worse, airports are usually well outside the city borders, so there's an awful lot of commute involved at a time when public transport doesn't run as well.
> Why aren't the airports doing more to entice workers like perhaps better benefits, pay or flexibility?
There has been a continuous pressure on costs everywhere at airports, which means the airports themselves have not much flexibility on raising fees to account for increased costs, and the companies providing the services like baggage handling, refueling and whatever usually won their contracts by tender which means they are locked in as well by law.
[0] https://de.talent.com/salary?job=flughafen
[1] https://www.luftsicherheitsschulung-online.de/faq-beantragun...
[+] [-] daveoc64|3 years ago|reply
The current high level of employment means people are able to choose to not do that kind of undesirable work.
When Airports and Airlines do manage to find staff to fill the jobs, they have to go through a government background check process for security reasons. That process has a huge backlog at the moment.
[+] [-] iso1631|3 years ago|reply
When travel picked back up they tried to employ people. They failed because
1) Brexit -- many people who were laid off in the UK returned to their country of origin
2) Security clearance -- there is a massive backlog getting security clearance (for things like airside passes) in the UK
BA ground crew were recently on strike because they're being paid less than they were in 2019 for the same job (which was already a low wage), even before inflation. There's better jobs to go to with better hours and better conditions.
I suspect BA and co are hoping to get some form of P&O style deal where they can employ people who aren't UK citizens in the airports on a low wage that someone with full access to the labour market wouldn't take.
[+] [-] mprovost|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qbasic_forever|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nradov|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prvit|3 years ago|reply
Same goes for Schiphol https://www.schiphol.nl/en/page/schiphol-vip-service/
For relatively little money, the private terminal services offer you a very high quality stress-free experience. No need to navigate crowded airports or tow your luggage around. They’ll drive you from a comfortable lounge straight to the plane (and vice-versa). For passport control, you just sit in a comfy armchair as the border force girl comes to check your documents.
Depending on the airline and airport you depart from, your luggage will often get binned separately in order to guarantee a super fast delivery to the VIP terminal.
[+] [-] TrainedMonkey|3 years ago|reply
Kind of pricy, source: https://www.heathrowvip.com/s/faqs
[+] [-] enlyth|3 years ago|reply
On what planet? It costs £2750 plus VAT, sometimes I think I live in a different universe than HN posters
[+] [-] a_t48|3 years ago|reply
> They’ll drive you from a comfortable lounge straight to the plane (and vice-versa). For passport control, you just sit in a comfy armchair as the border force girl comes to check your documents.
For some airports you don't have to pay for a separate extra service for this, flying first class with the right airline at the right airport will get you that. I'm trying to remember where I did this - I think it was Taipei. Wherever it was, I didn't have a black car, but a thing resembling a baggage cart that played Fur Elise to let people know I was coming. I don't think I would use the cart service again, but the checkin experience was nice.
[+] [-] shapefrog|3 years ago|reply
Protip: have your staff book a car for your luggage, saves having to wait for someone to unload your luggage from the plane, you can just get into the waiting car on the tarmac and go.
Super protip: have your luggage shipped ahead and unpacked in advance of your arrival.
[+] [-] corrral|3 years ago|reply
Is this phenomenon a psychology trick? Most folks doing bad stuff are guys, so have a hot young woman ask the questions to throw them off and make it harder to lie?
I've wondered whether it's a deliberate tactic employed by some border controls since I stepped off a plane in Canada and saw that every single one of the half-dozen folks doing our "what are you doing in Canada?" Q&A stuff was a very attractive, put-together young woman. Like, that's a hell of a coincidence if it's not intentional.
[+] [-] astura|3 years ago|reply
So just like the Tom Brady method of avoiding sexual harassment[1]
[1] https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8
[+] [-] zhte415|3 years ago|reply
> Prices for the Black service start at GBP £2,750 + VAT for up to 3 persons for an arriving or departing flight, as well as those on flights connecting within 3 hours.
For perspective, LHR-JFK is around £500 return including taxes for one adult in economy, or £850 for premium economy.
[+] [-] avidphantasm|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] ramesh31|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tpmx|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AMSthrow|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] tpmx|3 years ago|reply
Doesn't seem that dramatic?
[+] [-] chucksta|3 years ago|reply
>"Kaye’s solution is to cap Heathrow passenger numbers at 100,000 per day for the Summer period" ... "the closure for sale of all flights departing from the airport until 11th September a reduction in the current passenger cap from 101,500 to 100,000"
meaning every day until 9/11 1.5k people aren't getting a seat they paid for
[+] [-] whack|3 years ago|reply
My understanding is that based on existing sales alone, there are already 101,500 passengers/day. And in order to get 100,000, they have asked airlines to not sell any more tickets at all.
If you imagine that airlines were previously planning to sell a further 20,000 tickets per day, and they cut that down to 0-100 per day, that's a huge drop that is sure to impact anyone looking to buy tickets at this time.
[+] [-] madrox|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Scoundreller|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pdx_flyer|3 years ago|reply
1) Cancel flights 2) Operate with lower loads on the existing flights
#1 is the best option as it reduces the number of staff needed on the ground and in the air but airlines are likely going to go with #2 because they don't want to risk this edict from the airport going on long enough to threaten their slots. And regulators are not budging. They actually come out and said that any slots not used, even for capacity reasons, will be returned and are not exempt.
[+] [-] aaaaaaaaaaab|3 years ago|reply
*at their current price point
[+] [-] m0llusk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FerretFred|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] haunter|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] calebegg|3 years ago|reply
> heathrow-tells-all-airlines-to-stop-selling-any-flights-until-11th-september
> Heathrow tells BA (and other airlines) to stop selling tickets for the Summer period
> SOLD OUT: Heathrow tells all airlines to stop selling ANY flights until 11th September
Isn't that just much more work for so little "benefit" (SEO?)
Anyway, now none of them match the title on HN, so I have no answer to your question.
[+] [-] sfmike|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jb12|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] karagenit|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iamtheworstdev|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] bryanrasmussen|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drcongo|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] mnd999|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] pluc|3 years ago|reply
Edit: Y'all really think they would have limited flights in touristic high season if the Euro was what it was 2-3 years ago? Please!
[+] [-] dageshi|3 years ago|reply