Until a year or two ago there was a stalemate as far as "rich web" development technologies goes. Neither flash, Silverlight or HTML5 was the clear winner. I remember people being incredulous that the iPad didn't support Flash, saying that while it might be ok for the iPhone to not support it, nobody would take the iPad seriously if it didn't support Flash.
In a way, I think it might be the combined weight of the iPhone and iPad that's broken the stalemate in HTML5's favour. Apple sold so many of them, that website makers had to take notice.
When Microsoft announced that Windows 8 metro mode (which may well be the only mode available for low power Win8 tablets) would not support Silverlight, I think the game was well and truly up.
Two years ago, flash was the only game in town; Good HTML5 implementations were no where to be found, and Silverlight adoption was a joke. It's not like you could HTML5 an equivalent to flash on an iPhone OS 3.
I agree that things started changing rapidly two years ago, with the introduction of iOS 4. But there was never a stalemate -- Flash was king; then there was chaos; and now HTML5 is winning (for the time being, though not for long, Flash is still among the royalty). Silverlight had always been a wannabe.
I am/was a Silverlight fan. When Microsoft made it clear that they were focusing on JavaScript (I realize it's not standard's compliant) with Windows 8, I finally spent a lot of time considering the situation. Apparently a lot of the Silverlight team quit or was moved to other divisions. The wriitng was on the wall.
For the last three years, I'd find anyway to build a RIA in anything but JS/HTML. I'd use GWT/Cappuccino/Silverlight/Flex, etc. After Microsoft's move, I finally just embraced JS/CoffeeScript; I love every bit of it.
> nobody would take the iPad seriously if it didn't support Flash
That sounds like revisionist history to me. Plenty of people complained about the lack of Flash and speculated that Apple might eventually have to give in and allow it, but I don't think any significant number of people suggested or believed that the iPad wouldn't be taken seriously without it.
At Microsoft you have a bunch of brilliant programmers who are forced to follow "strategic direction" from above. Even if they wanted to, there's no way they can continue working on a mothballed project they still believe in.
People who relied on the Silverlight plugin certainly cannot continue to develop it, either.
Long-run, there's more security in relying on software created by a sufficiently large and capable community of enthusiasts. Such software will never die if it's good enough to be useful - sunk costs, NIH, and all that.
The "strategic direction" of a community won't change except by consensus. People will enter and leave. By the time the community withers and dies, nobody cares any more.
I would love to know what Microsoft's strategic direction is.
While announcing lots of C++ love for Visual Studio and promises of C++11 compliance they don't have an API for writing native code apps on Windows
The 'official toolkit' is WPF and whatever managed C++ is called today. But with Silverlight dead what future does it's under regarded cousin have?
So no problem we all switch to it's new tablet/phone OS. Only they won't tell us which of the windows phone toolkits are going to be on tablets and PCs - if any.
Or are we supposed to be developing all our apps for Azure and the cloud now?
Or are they just abandoning the PC like HP and we write everything in HTML5 for the browser?
In the meantime, there's no really reliable standard, cross-platform and cross-browser way to play back audio or video in the browser as major browser vendors still cannot agree on a single codec that would work everywhere.
Not really. Silverlight will be about as dead as VB6.
Plenty of companies out there are still using VB6. It's not like Microsoft is going to take away the download or something, they'll just stop developing it.
Also, why "good riddance"? Do you just hate everything Microsoft or did Silverlight really cause you any problems personally?
I don't know what Silverlight does under the covers, but the event handling language in Flash is Actionscript, which is a dialect of Javascript. So in that sense we're already there.
Microsoft's IE9 product lead, said - without even saying that it was confidential or not to repeat - 'Silverlight is dead, I give it six months tops' at OnGameStart a couple of months ago. I believe him.
I'm curious what Netflix has in the works to move off of Silverlight. I remember reading that their biggest problem with HTML5 players was the lack of good DRM options to please the studios.
Someone needs to explain to the studios about how computers are really great at copying stuff, which means DRM only ever has to be broken once by one person, and it doesn't matter if it's Netflix or Blu-ray or HBO.
The only thing Netflix needs to do is make it inconvenient to rip the stream, i.e. more difficult than downloading the same thing as a torrent. Anything more is pointless.
Likely what they do on every other platform already; a sandboxed HTML5 "native" app. They could also take the NaCl route like they do for ChromeOS; but I don't think NaCl is available in plugin form yet (not that it matters for Win8; plugins of any kind are verboten in Metro mode)
SGML/HTML/XML/CSS/JS have the true open standard good side instead of anticompetitive proprietary grip. But let's not fool ourselves, those languages are terrible and backwards. Same with HTTP. Also HTML5 still falls short of many missing features on the web.
I'm hoping for a new generation of a better set of languages to take over. But this feels like hoping for x86 to go obsolete, even Intel couldn't kill it.
I "get" it when it comes to silverlight for public facing websites. Really. I do. The general populace doesn't want to have to install a plugin. But what about intranet apps? Silverlight is so incredibly easy to work with (compared to html/css/js) that there are lots of companies that have built intranet apps with it because they control the end point.
Remember when IE6 was so incredibly easy to work with? Remember how much effort has been dedicated to port those internal "web applications" that worked on one specific browser?
A lot of companies that said the same about ActiveX are still limping along with IE6. I'd rather ask my boss to budget for more development time than to suggest rolling out a single-platform solution in 2011.
The takeaway is this: don't build your mission critical internal apps on a Microsoft browser plugin. This has never worked out well.
One really important reason is not to tie your intranet to the Silverlight/Flash/runtime N roadmap. Better to hook up to something that will run in browsers without painting yourself into yet another proprietary corner.
It's unfortunate but it was inevitable. HTML 5 is definitely the future. Although, the ability to write an app using type-safe, object oriented code that can run on both the client and server was very compelling.
If I were a betting man, I would guess "build some new proprietary technology", but they may just go back to WebGL now that they are committing to HTML5.
I have been working on a silverlight app for almost 2 years. We started in silverlight 2 and are now on silverlight 4. There have been a million twists and turns but our business demanded things that simply are not practical from HTML/JS.
People within both Microsoft and Google use my app, and I recently heard from our division president that they were "blown away".
With this news the mandate came down to prepare to "rewrite in python". How is that for marching orders. Makes no sense but management is so anti-Microsoft at this point they are irrational.
As a developer I have sunk years of time and effort into this. I guess I can take my XAML knowledge and build windows 8 LOB apps down the street.
They should've stuck with Silverlight as a rich javascript library (similar to v1), and used the Silverlight CoreCLR to power the javascript JIT in IE, providing a superior user and/or development experience compared to other [desktop] browsers.
Of course, it's entirely too sensible to have actually happened. Instead the IE team went off and wrote their own JIT for IE7/8/whatever and are still playing catch up to Chrome.
At this time about 2 years ago they did have JS running on CLR and it was 2x faster than any browser out there.
So what does this mean for Windows Phone 7? Will Silverlight eventually go away for it as well? Since the majority of WP7 apps are developed with Silverlight (i think?) what will replace it?
Good riddance! I spent the last 5 months at a gig working on a massive Silverlight 4 application. I've been a web guy forever, but I took this job thinking it would be good to learn how the other half lives. After experiencing the pain and drudgery of working with Silverlight, I couldn't be happier that it's going away.
The most maddening part of working on a Silverlight app was that things that are dead simple with HTML/JS/CSS are tons of work with SL. I was always amazed at the gymnastics required to get even simple UI functionality to work.
Xaml itself was a problem. Why in god's name to we need another superset of XML? Especially with all that atrocious binding syntax.
And also, every time you want to see a UI change you have to build the XAP. When you have tons of Xaml is takes forever to compile to see a minor change!
[+] [-] d4nt|14 years ago|reply
In a way, I think it might be the combined weight of the iPhone and iPad that's broken the stalemate in HTML5's favour. Apple sold so many of them, that website makers had to take notice.
When Microsoft announced that Windows 8 metro mode (which may well be the only mode available for low power Win8 tablets) would not support Silverlight, I think the game was well and truly up.
[+] [-] beagle3|14 years ago|reply
Two years ago, flash was the only game in town; Good HTML5 implementations were no where to be found, and Silverlight adoption was a joke. It's not like you could HTML5 an equivalent to flash on an iPhone OS 3.
I agree that things started changing rapidly two years ago, with the introduction of iOS 4. But there was never a stalemate -- Flash was king; then there was chaos; and now HTML5 is winning (for the time being, though not for long, Flash is still among the royalty). Silverlight had always been a wannabe.
[+] [-] eli|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonpaul|14 years ago|reply
For the last three years, I'd find anyway to build a RIA in anything but JS/HTML. I'd use GWT/Cappuccino/Silverlight/Flex, etc. After Microsoft's move, I finally just embraced JS/CoffeeScript; I love every bit of it.
[+] [-] bostonpete|14 years ago|reply
That sounds like revisionist history to me. Plenty of people complained about the lack of Flash and speculated that Apple might eventually have to give in and allow it, but I don't think any significant number of people suggested or believed that the iPad wouldn't be taken seriously without it.
[+] [-] jongraehl|14 years ago|reply
People who relied on the Silverlight plugin certainly cannot continue to develop it, either.
Long-run, there's more security in relying on software created by a sufficiently large and capable community of enthusiasts. Such software will never die if it's good enough to be useful - sunk costs, NIH, and all that.
The "strategic direction" of a community won't change except by consensus. People will enter and leave. By the time the community withers and dies, nobody cares any more.
[+] [-] nobody3141592|14 years ago|reply
While announcing lots of C++ love for Visual Studio and promises of C++11 compliance they don't have an API for writing native code apps on Windows
The 'official toolkit' is WPF and whatever managed C++ is called today. But with Silverlight dead what future does it's under regarded cousin have?
So no problem we all switch to it's new tablet/phone OS. Only they won't tell us which of the windows phone toolkits are going to be on tablets and PCs - if any.
Or are we supposed to be developing all our apps for Azure and the cloud now?
Or are they just abandoning the PC like HP and we write everything in HTML5 for the browser?
[+] [-] joelthelion|14 years ago|reply
And once again, all the companies that decided to rely on a proprietary, non standard technology are going to get bitten.
[+] [-] DrJokepu|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] watty|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WayneDB|14 years ago|reply
Plenty of companies out there are still using VB6. It's not like Microsoft is going to take away the download or something, they'll just stop developing it.
Also, why "good riddance"? Do you just hate everything Microsoft or did Silverlight really cause you any problems personally?
[+] [-] JonoW|14 years ago|reply
"Any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript."
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/08/all-programming-is-...
[+] [-] RyanMcGreal|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nailer|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MatthewPhillips|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nobody3141592|14 years ago|reply
Good job we all switched to Qt and C++
[+] [-] hkarthik|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sjwright|14 years ago|reply
The only thing Netflix needs to do is make it inconvenient to rip the stream, i.e. more difficult than downloading the same thing as a torrent. Anything more is pointless.
[+] [-] kree10|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ConstantineXVI|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] recoiledsnake|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pnathan|14 years ago|reply
I look forward to our new HTML5 overlord.
[+] [-] alecco|14 years ago|reply
SGML/HTML/XML/CSS/JS have the true open standard good side instead of anticompetitive proprietary grip. But let's not fool ourselves, those languages are terrible and backwards. Same with HTTP. Also HTML5 still falls short of many missing features on the web.
I'm hoping for a new generation of a better set of languages to take over. But this feels like hoping for x86 to go obsolete, even Intel couldn't kill it.
[+] [-] viggity|14 years ago|reply
I really hope this isn't true.
[+] [-] rbanffy|14 years ago|reply
Remember when IE6 was so incredibly easy to work with? Remember how much effort has been dedicated to port those internal "web applications" that worked on one specific browser?
[+] [-] kstrauser|14 years ago|reply
The takeaway is this: don't build your mission critical internal apps on a Microsoft browser plugin. This has never worked out well.
[+] [-] sunchild|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] platonichvn|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bchjam|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forgotAgain|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chadaustin|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hvs|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Hominem|14 years ago|reply
People within both Microsoft and Google use my app, and I recently heard from our division president that they were "blown away".
With this news the mandate came down to prepare to "rewrite in python". How is that for marching orders. Makes no sense but management is so anti-Microsoft at this point they are irrational.
As a developer I have sunk years of time and effort into this. I guess I can take my XAML knowledge and build windows 8 LOB apps down the street.
[+] [-] jrydberg|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iam|14 years ago|reply
Of course, it's entirely too sensible to have actually happened. Instead the IE team went off and wrote their own JIT for IE7/8/whatever and are still playing catch up to Chrome.
At this time about 2 years ago they did have JS running on CLR and it was 2x faster than any browser out there.
[+] [-] tcarnell|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hello_moto|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] feintruled|14 years ago|reply
http://techblog.netflix.com/2010/12/why-we-choose-html5-for-...
[+] [-] sunsu|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dos1|14 years ago|reply
The most maddening part of working on a Silverlight app was that things that are dead simple with HTML/JS/CSS are tons of work with SL. I was always amazed at the gymnastics required to get even simple UI functionality to work.
Xaml itself was a problem. Why in god's name to we need another superset of XML? Especially with all that atrocious binding syntax.
And also, every time you want to see a UI change you have to build the XAP. When you have tons of Xaml is takes forever to compile to see a minor change!
[+] [-] Hov|14 years ago|reply
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