This is actually a pretty interesting story, from a career perspective:
The CEO of VW North America is on vacation with his family, sees a restored classic Scout, and falls in love with it. He finds out that coincidentally VW now owns the rights to the Scout brand, so he steps down from his post to start a new Scout subsidiary.
Startup life has ruined me, so I'll never be able to believe such an origin story anymore and always assume it's something that PR/marketing has made up.
If I were the grease monkey type that could work on my own car, a Scout is definitely in the realm of classic car that I would love to have as a daily driver.
I get the sense that the pickup truck market in the U.S. particularly in suburbs is driven by brand marketing rather than consumer needs. People are paying a premium, in the cost of purchasing as well as in the cost of insuring, maintaining, and fueling, for the image of the rugged individualistic American ready for any terrain, weather, or load that needs hauling, and maximally armored to "win" should they ever hit a person or vehicle in their path.
There's a subset of contexts where they make sense although I think for _most_ people they're infrequent enough that it's way more sensible to use a cargo van or a sedan and then just rent a truck during the minority of times when you actually need one.
I'm not defending the number of pickups on the road in America but this is an out of touch comment. Some common uses of pickup beds include:
* Hauling motorcycles and ATVs including snowmobiles.
* Carrying campers.
* Carrying home improvement projects such as bags of soil, plants, and raw material such as 8'x2"x4" lumber or 4'x8' plywood. At least in the 2000s a 4x8 sheet of plywood will not fit in a compact pickup but lays flat in a fullsize.
Some common uses of pickups include:
* Towing pull-behind RVs or fifth-wheels.
* Towing boats.
* Camping with the family.
A lot of modern pickups seem to include some kind of bed cover that makes them well suited to mundane tasks like hauling groceries as well.
All of that suggests to me that pickup manufacturers do in fact know their customers.
> 2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
Because it's too small to be useful. You can't fit a sheet of plywood in that easily. You might be able to get a small motorcycle in there with some wrangling, but maybe not. 2 seats means you can't carry the whole family, so now you need a second car if you have kids, or friends. And if you actually do use the truck for weekend activity like hauling boats or an RV then you need to drive both cars.
The fact is the fullsize truck actually does work for American consumers. That's why people buy them. And why manufacturers make them.
All of this totally ignores the hundreds of thousands of "work trucks" that are being fully loaded every day. Landscapers, farmers, contractors, etc all rely on the pickup form factor for obvious reasons. And looking around those are often used trucks, including the high trim level luxury versions from a previous generation.
Very few F150s are rated to carry a single yard of soil. About half that is more typical.
> 2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
The market has spoken. Crew cabs were available in the 70s but not common. Now they dominate. Why? Because the average pickup buyer in the US can accurately be described as "everyone." Which means a do-everything vehicle with seating capacity like a car but utility like a truck is extremely popular.
Well, an old Scout is a two-door, two row SUV, with a bit of storage in the back and a hatch-back + tail gate. Not a compact pickup (but actually a pretty short length; it qualifies for a small car rate on the Washington State ferries!). International Harvester did make pickup trucks into the mid 70s and they share some bodywork and design elements with Scouts such that you might call it a Scout pickup, but that's not what IH called them.
The compact pickup with a standard cab + 6 foot bed was mostly killed by CAFE standard updates. It didn't make sense to make them based on the footprint model. Hopefully electric trucks will bring this segment back, since they don't have the same constraints leading them towards larger footprints.
Non-crew cab is almost extinct. I think there are tax/regulatory reasons for this, but it also drives me crazy that so many trucks have beds that are terrible at carrying 8' long items like 2x4s and plywood sheets. At least with a 6' bed the stuff is only sticking out a little past the end of the tailgate.
>2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
I'd argue that it seems the exact opposite. People aren't buying $50,000+ 4-door 4x4 trucks because Ford is forcing that on them, they are demanding it. And 2 seats are nowhere near optimal practicality.
> I hope this ends up being smaller than the F150.
The 2023 Ford Ranger will have an EV (or plug-in hybrid, or both) option. VW is using the platform for their Amarok truck. It seems reasonably likely that it may be the platform for the 1st-gen Scout pickup, rather than starting from a clean sheet of paper.
I'm pretty psyched about the "Buzz", an electric reboot of the famous T1 bus [1]. Not sure how I would actually use this but it seems they're finally getting to grips with what made people love VW's in the past, and translating that to electric vehicles. I've also driven their electric ID.3 and it's just not nearly as exciting.
The US version will apparently be the long wheelbase expensive version, which imo is disappointing but the variants being offered in EU are pretty exciting.
Incredibly disappointed with how designed the front on this one. The original T1 had round 'eyes' and a friendly look; the headlights on the new one give it a mean squinting look.
If they made an affordable, electric truck about the size of the original SR-5/Tacoma with a simple interior I could easily clean I'd buy one. This will end up being another over-sized, over-priced American mess that no one actually takes off-road.
It's an interesting comment. Some believe that VW will make Scouts a direct to consumer brand, like Tesla, rather than part of the VW dealer (or any) network.
I try to avoid VW brands because of dieselgate - don't want to support them after that.
I bought VWs & Audis in 3 states and had no issues.
I also had zero problems with any of my cars... including A6s and my last VW product was a VW CC.
But after that, the cars were always out of step with what they were competing with. VW started making "VWs cars for Americans in America", like the Atlas. I bought a Highlander because the Atlas was bigger than I wanted, had less tech (at the beginning, not true at the end).
ID4? I bought a Tesla Y.
I wanted an R as my last ICE vehicle, couldn't get one to save my life, and I tried.
They're #2 globally behind Toyota, but I think they're moving a ton of Tiguans nowadays.
People often single out particular brands for having poor dealership experiences, but for me, every non-luxury brand dealership experience has been terrible. VW, Toyota, Ford, Hyundai - etc. etc.
The luxury brand dealerships have generally been mountains better, though I'm sure you can find people who've had bad experiences at them too.
The experience in dealerships between brands under the same corporate umbrella are night and day too. For example, say, Toyota vs Lexus.
I bought a new 2011 TDI JettaSportwagen and didn't find the dealer experience any worse or better than my other dealer experiences (2007 Ford, 2017 Chrysler). Dieselgate was a disappointment, but I was thrilled with how they handled it; we had grown out of the car, and they purchased it at a nice price with zero fuss. I would love it if that happened again.
I've owned an International Harvester 73 Scout II 4x4 345/torqueflite since 1999.
We've had Ford, the company that managed to kill off the lightline range in 1979 by colluding with their big three partners to crush IH, bringing out their flimsy '60's "Bronco' scout copy which they recently resurrected as a blatant Scout 800 body styling clone.
My point - why are the big auto makers so terrible at innovation and naming conventions? Why do we have to endure these irritating stories about execs 'resurrecting' past era vehicles and trying to get some of the mystique to rub off on their lame new models?
I also own a 1967 IH Travelall 4 x4. IH were absolutely awesome at building vehicles that were very beefy and mechanically built to last but horrifically rust prone. They helped kill themselves by ludicrously over optioning their lightline vehicles with what seemed like 100's of trim options, variants and levels that were very hard to organize on the assembly line. The golden era of US automobile manufacturing being culturally strip mined by VW.
Whoah you mentioned some interesting background into the history of IH. Seeing VW pair with IH was also very surprising to see in the article - especially in regards to EVs (as IH has predominately been a diesel manufacturer in my lifetime).
Why did Ford want to “crush” IH if they put their Diesel engines into Ford trucks for like 3 decades?
There was a HN post recently about the stagnation of music and movie/video/film production and it seems to maybe tie into this phenomena. I’m also laughing a bit because my daily driver is an 02 new beetle tdi (alongside an 88 f250 with the IH engine). I remember being pretty critical of the new beetles when they first came out but they’re just cheap now and have good reliable engines..
The first vehicle I ever drove was a Travelall back in the late 70s when I was 8 or 9. My great uncle had one on the family farm and it was a beast. Driving that thing up a hill by myself (with my uncle in the passenger seat) on gravel farm road was both scary and exciting.
I understand that the big automakers make a lot of money on the fancy trim packages but I would love a stripped down truck and even more a stripped down light truck. I still miss my '87 Nissan Frontier I had in grad school.
My family bought a diesel IH Scout in the 70s. Its probably the worst car I've ever ridden in. 0-60 in an afternoon with a tailwind, horrible suspension, noisy, etc. It was replaced by an early 80s Jeep Cherokee, which was a huge upgrade. So Scout isn't something I'm super nostalgic about..
This made me chuckle, you have a point. Diesels are much much better to drive when turbo charged - I wasn’t alive in the 70s but am curious what the expectations were for passenger vehicles made by a tractor company, it was presumably a “tank” though
In the mid-80s I had a Scout from the mid 60s. It was the most basic vehicle you could imagine. Everything was operated manually. The roof would come off, if you unfastened about 6 bolts. I think it had about 4 instruments, including the gas gauge, which did not work. (I'd check the gas level by opening up the gas cap and rocking the vehicle to listen to the sloshing sounds.) Still, you could fix most anything with very basic tools.
I wish VW good luck. They currently have a reputation for complicated, fragile vehicles so sort of the opposite of my old Scout. Maybe the change to an electric drivetrain will let them move closer to their spiritual ancestor.
Good. America's midsize truck options are not super great at the moment. Electrification of the midsize segment has even worse prospects. Toyota & GM are way way way behind the curve
If more people would lobby their congress critter(s) to repeal the ridiculous chicken tax we might actually see some interesting options in the low end again!
>> Now, amid a historic shift to electric vehicles (EVs), VW sees an opportunity to reconnect with U.S. consumers by offering EVs in the segments they care most about: pickup trucks and large SUVs.
>> Scott Keogh, president and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, will become president and CEO of Scout on Sept. 1
>> He will be succeeded by Pablo Di Si, currently the executive chairman of Volkswagen's South American Region. Di Si will oversee the entire North American region, as did Keogh.
> Despite its global standing as the world's second-largest carmaker, Volkswagen is a chronic underachiever in the United States.
There is a large community of VW enthusiasts in the US, and yet that market is never treated as anything other than an afterthought by VW.
Despite being 2nd generation VW owner (my dad drove an original beetle, and my first and second vehicles were both Golfs), my next vehicle will be a Ford.
I still think it was a massive mistake that VW skipped selling the ID.3 to focus on the ID.4 in the US, assuming all Americans would prefer the SUV-like ID.4. The ID.3 is the true EV successor [0] of the Golf and every American fan of VW that I know loves the Golf and had one or two of them. (I'd consider the ID.3. I don't want an ID.4.)
[0] For a few years they made an "e-Golf" that was batteries badly fit into an unmodified Golf frame. The ID.3 is bespoke EV on the shared MEB architecture.
I would absolutely love a pickup truck that I can use in SF. All the modern ones are absolutely humongous. I had a Titan and that thing was enormous. Cost me absolute bags of money to offset the carbon.
Ultimately, I just want something with a bed that I can strap my bike down and take somewhere to ride. You can't really do that with the Forester I have now.
Hyundai Santa Cruz and Ford Maverick are two recent models moving in the right direction for those of us who would like to see true mini-pickups return to the US.
With the popularity of similar looking vehicles, like the new Ford Bronco or the Suzuki Jimny, I'd bet they wouldn't struggle selling a Scout inspired one.
That's pretty interesting, and TBH I would probably watch a tie-in post apoc movie featuring Tom Hanks driving around a heavily-kitbashed version of whatever the new Scout is.
josephpmay|3 years ago
The CEO of VW North America is on vacation with his family, sees a restored classic Scout, and falls in love with it. He finds out that coincidentally VW now owns the rights to the Scout brand, so he steps down from his post to start a new Scout subsidiary.
ThePhysicist|3 years ago
dylan604|3 years ago
zactato|3 years ago
I get the popularity of that form factor, but I simply don't believe that many people are hauling yards of soil or towing boats.
2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
actionablefiber|3 years ago
There's a subset of contexts where they make sense although I think for _most_ people they're infrequent enough that it's way more sensible to use a cargo van or a sedan and then just rent a truck during the minority of times when you actually need one.
mulmen|3 years ago
I'm not defending the number of pickups on the road in America but this is an out of touch comment. Some common uses of pickup beds include:
* Hauling motorcycles and ATVs including snowmobiles.
* Carrying campers.
* Carrying home improvement projects such as bags of soil, plants, and raw material such as 8'x2"x4" lumber or 4'x8' plywood. At least in the 2000s a 4x8 sheet of plywood will not fit in a compact pickup but lays flat in a fullsize.
Some common uses of pickups include:
* Towing pull-behind RVs or fifth-wheels.
* Towing boats.
* Camping with the family.
A lot of modern pickups seem to include some kind of bed cover that makes them well suited to mundane tasks like hauling groceries as well.
All of that suggests to me that pickup manufacturers do in fact know their customers.
> 2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
Because it's too small to be useful. You can't fit a sheet of plywood in that easily. You might be able to get a small motorcycle in there with some wrangling, but maybe not. 2 seats means you can't carry the whole family, so now you need a second car if you have kids, or friends. And if you actually do use the truck for weekend activity like hauling boats or an RV then you need to drive both cars.
The fact is the fullsize truck actually does work for American consumers. That's why people buy them. And why manufacturers make them.
All of this totally ignores the hundreds of thousands of "work trucks" that are being fully loaded every day. Landscapers, farmers, contractors, etc all rely on the pickup form factor for obvious reasons. And looking around those are often used trucks, including the high trim level luxury versions from a previous generation.
rootusrootus|3 years ago
Very few F150s are rated to carry a single yard of soil. About half that is more typical.
> 2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
The market has spoken. Crew cabs were available in the 70s but not common. Now they dominate. Why? Because the average pickup buyer in the US can accurately be described as "everyone." Which means a do-everything vehicle with seating capacity like a car but utility like a truck is extremely popular.
toast0|3 years ago
The compact pickup with a standard cab + 6 foot bed was mostly killed by CAFE standard updates. It didn't make sense to make them based on the footprint model. Hopefully electric trucks will bring this segment back, since they don't have the same constraints leading them towards larger footprints.
jandrese|3 years ago
itsoktocry|3 years ago
I'd argue that it seems the exact opposite. People aren't buying $50,000+ 4-door 4x4 trucks because Ford is forcing that on them, they are demanding it. And 2 seats are nowhere near optimal practicality.
Kon-Peki|3 years ago
The 2023 Ford Ranger will have an EV (or plug-in hybrid, or both) option. VW is using the platform for their Amarok truck. It seems reasonably likely that it may be the platform for the 1st-gen Scout pickup, rather than starting from a clean sheet of paper.
jmann99999|3 years ago
givemeethekeys|3 years ago
ThePhysicist|3 years ago
1: https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-buzz.html
abawany|3 years ago
spython|3 years ago
thecrumb|3 years ago
orangepurple|3 years ago
lbwtaylor|3 years ago
I try to avoid VW brands because of dieselgate - don't want to support them after that.
browningstreet|3 years ago
I also had zero problems with any of my cars... including A6s and my last VW product was a VW CC.
But after that, the cars were always out of step with what they were competing with. VW started making "VWs cars for Americans in America", like the Atlas. I bought a Highlander because the Atlas was bigger than I wanted, had less tech (at the beginning, not true at the end).
ID4? I bought a Tesla Y.
I wanted an R as my last ICE vehicle, couldn't get one to save my life, and I tried.
They're #2 globally behind Toyota, but I think they're moving a ton of Tiguans nowadays.
decafninja|3 years ago
The luxury brand dealerships have generally been mountains better, though I'm sure you can find people who've had bad experiences at them too.
The experience in dealerships between brands under the same corporate umbrella are night and day too. For example, say, Toyota vs Lexus.
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
toast0|3 years ago
olivermarks|3 years ago
We've had Ford, the company that managed to kill off the lightline range in 1979 by colluding with their big three partners to crush IH, bringing out their flimsy '60's "Bronco' scout copy which they recently resurrected as a blatant Scout 800 body styling clone.
My point - why are the big auto makers so terrible at innovation and naming conventions? Why do we have to endure these irritating stories about execs 'resurrecting' past era vehicles and trying to get some of the mystique to rub off on their lame new models?
I also own a 1967 IH Travelall 4 x4. IH were absolutely awesome at building vehicles that were very beefy and mechanically built to last but horrifically rust prone. They helped kill themselves by ludicrously over optioning their lightline vehicles with what seemed like 100's of trim options, variants and levels that were very hard to organize on the assembly line. The golden era of US automobile manufacturing being culturally strip mined by VW.
1968 International Scout TV Commercial featuring a beagle puppy cute https://youtu.be/nKj3sjmRm5U
dieselgate|3 years ago
dugmartin|3 years ago
I understand that the big automakers make a lot of money on the fancy trim packages but I would love a stripped down truck and even more a stripped down light truck. I still miss my '87 Nissan Frontier I had in grad school.
drewg123|3 years ago
dieselgate|3 years ago
RickJWagner|3 years ago
I wish VW good luck. They currently have a reputation for complicated, fragile vehicles so sort of the opposite of my old Scout. Maybe the change to an electric drivetrain will let them move closer to their spiritual ancestor.
waiseristy|3 years ago
EricE|3 years ago
If more people would lobby their congress critter(s) to repeal the ridiculous chicken tax we might actually see some interesting options in the low end again!
lightwin|3 years ago
>> Scott Keogh, president and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, will become president and CEO of Scout on Sept. 1
>> He will be succeeded by Pablo Di Si, currently the executive chairman of Volkswagen's South American Region. Di Si will oversee the entire North American region, as did Keogh.
balls187|3 years ago
There is a large community of VW enthusiasts in the US, and yet that market is never treated as anything other than an afterthought by VW.
Despite being 2nd generation VW owner (my dad drove an original beetle, and my first and second vehicles were both Golfs), my next vehicle will be a Ford.
WorldMaker|3 years ago
[0] For a few years they made an "e-Golf" that was batteries badly fit into an unmodified Golf frame. The ID.3 is bespoke EV on the shared MEB architecture.
renewiltord|3 years ago
Ultimately, I just want something with a bed that I can strap my bike down and take somewhere to ride. You can't really do that with the Forester I have now.
rasz|3 years ago
you mean like $1500 folding Motorcycle trailer? or even cheaper https://www.uhaul.com/Trailers/Motorcycle-Trailer-Rental/MT/
EricE|3 years ago
throwaway6734|3 years ago
jmrm|3 years ago
gtm1260|3 years ago
waiseristy|3 years ago
dieselgate|3 years ago
Edit: it actually just looks like a Rivian.. oh well
Animats|3 years ago
macintux|3 years ago
Electric seems inevitable, however.
smm11|3 years ago
Because I had a TDI that I had to give up, and I won't get into it, but I was ripped off.
themodelplumber|3 years ago