I’m an Apple fan and let me roll my eyes. This is nonsense.
For the sake of argument, let’s assume Apple’s latest laptops have thoroughly wiped the floor against PCs.
If that’s the case, Apple’s computers are in a completely different class. You now have ARM machines that run macOS and x86 machines that run any other operating system.
Thus, if you’re looking for an x86 machine, you’re not buying an Apple product.
This isn’t some inconvenient truth. If you include macs in a PC review… there isn’t any point. You’d be comparing apples with oranges.
Yes. I wrote this entire comment to make that joke. :)
Your reasoning is starting with the wrong premise. As if people are looking for x86 or ARM machines.
I would rather say people are in the market for something to write their thesis on, write some code or do creative work. MacBooks and Windows/Intel laptops can do this both. There is no apples to oranges comparison.
The separation of MacBooks and Windows/Intel laptops based on a chipset or OS is completely arbitrary and opinionated.
It depends upon your target market. For many people, an Apple computer is a PC. They run the same, or very similar, applications to get the same job done. Very few computer users are going to care if that PC is based upon ARM or x86. The only reason why most computer users care about the operating system is due to application support, familiarity of the user interface, or perceived reliability.
For various reasons, I am firmly in the x86 camp. On the other hand, there is a very good reason to compare apples to oranges: for a good number of people a fruit is a fruit, but the flavour still matters.
Then there are the oddballs who used to install oranges into apples to get the best of both worlds. (Historical tid-bit, Orange Micro used to make PC compatibility cards for Macintosh computers.)
I'm not buying an ARM laptop or an x86 laptop, I'm buying a laptop that lets me get work done. Both types do the work I need, the Apple one currently does it nicer at a good price point. If the x86 laptops start doing it better than I'd pick one of those.
> You now have ARM machines that run macOS and x86 machines that run any other operating system.
Not necessarily. You can run Linux on Apple Silicon today. Asahi is far from complete, missing lots of drivers and with other sharp corners, but it's been a better experience than I've had with most x86 laptops I've tried. What works works, the machine is stable, fast (even for some graphical applications despite the lack of GPU drivers!) and the battery life is great.
Apparently you can run some form of BSD on it as well but I have no idea how far the support is.
> Thus, if you’re looking for an x86 machine, you’re not buying an Apple product.
Perhaps, but I don't think a lot of people out there actually care about the underlying architecture unless they're developing architecture-specific stuff.
Are you expecting John Gruber to be rational and impartial talking about Apple? He's being the biggest shill the Internet has ever known, for a decade. This "journalist" is a clown.
This was explained well by early reviewers: the benchmarks are too different to compare at this point and a bit immature for Apples new architecture.
Some of the benchmarks only ran in Intel mode which puts Apple at an unfair disadvantage and might bias the results. Other benchmarks weren't designed for machines like the M1 Max and leave it well below 100% utilization even when natively compiled. A completely new cross platform benchmark is needed to do a proper comparison.
There are still some benchmarks on Ars comparing both architectures when applicable e.g when Intel launched the new CPUs and claimed they were faster than the M1 Ars ran the comparison to test that claim.
While I don't like the phrasing in the article, I think the author is right that it is hypocritical of reviewers to exclude MacBooks from comparison. Especially for professional work as a dev, nothing ever comes close to the value proposition of the base MBP 14" model.
> nothing ever comes close to the value proposition of the base MBP 14" model.
Really? I bet you can buy a laptop for 1/10th the price that can do 90% of the same software dev tasks. The only thing the 14" does better is iOS development, which you don't have a choice of machines for anyways. I love a lot of things about the 14" Macbook Pro, but defending it's value proposition is something I can't really understand. It's a $2,000 laptop running the same OS as a $900 laptop, running the same git binary that you execute on a $35 Raspberry Pi. I don't see it.
Gruber isn't always right, but he's right here. I use Macs and Thinkpads for work. My M1 Mac is by far the fastest and also has by far the best battery life and uses the fans the least often. x86 is way behind ARM right now.
I recently started a project with a client that shipped me a laptop. It's one of the new MBP's with an M1 Pro. Even with all the crapware this client loves to pile on these machines (standard enterprise MDM fare), this is still by far the fastest computer I've used. The fact that this thing is noticeably faster than my "main" work machine which has the same amount of ram, zero company crapware (oh how i love working for small and med sized corps) but an i7. The i7 machine is fast, chews through anything that I throw at it, but the M1 Pro is just faster, like noticeably faster all-around, not just under certain workloads.
I've thrown around the idea of dropping big money ($4.8k the way I specced it) on a Mac Studio with an M1 Max. Up until now the idea was silly considering I have a perfectly good Macbook Pro from work without any spyware that I get for free. But dammit this M1 loaner might have pushed me over the edge.
I have a 14" M1 MBP from work. I've never purchased a Mac for personal use, but that's going to change when I can justify replacing my Thinkpad. They made an impressive machine while also taking away all of my hangups with the hardware (keyboard, ports, touchbar).
There’s a wide segment of users (50-75% ??) that could simply use Chromebooks ( I buy then for my parents). People can use them easily. Switching to a Mac is not so easy, because EVERYTHING is different ( but everyone knows how to use a browser)
If you are a PC gamer by definition a Mac will not work for you.
For those of us with high end needs and can run on Macs (devs, etc) then of course the perf comparison is valid.
But everyone is not us (devs, etc)
This is a strange article. I think many review sites have split the reviews into best iPhone/best android and best Mac/best windows laptop as there is simply no point in trying to convert people from their religion.
To my original point, the one area Apple can’t (won’t) compete is on price. Not everyone needs an expensive super thin laptop. Some people can spend $500 and get exactly what they need in a laptop.
Apple seems to be reconsidering the exclusive targeting of the higher end of the market with the iPhone SE - I wonder if they may make a similar move with Macs at some point which would allow them to compete on price. Especially if Apple continues their emphasis on services/recurring revenue, I could see a future in which they sell a (relatively) inexpensive MacBook for the possibility of opening themselves up to a market of consumers who could pair that with the future equivalent of an iPhone SE and be happy Apple Music subscribers.
No, they're just different devices with some overlap. When searching for a laptop to buy, providing Apple MacBooks in the comparison would be about as useful as adding iPads or Chromebooks - it could work as "if you only care about X, check out our article on this other type of product", but that's it.
Apple's products mostly make sense within it's ecosystem. If you're not already there, there are a lot of hurdles and useless things.
As a lifelong Windows and Linux user (with a couple of years of iMac usage at school), i now have a work provided MacBook Pro. Almost every other week i discover something new about it that annoys me - be it Pages automatically saving in its own shitty proprietary format instead of the original, the impossibility to have separate scroll order between mouse and touchpad, that while it sleeps Bluetooth is still on thus tricking various devices to connect to it, that i have to run a keylogger to add custom shortcuts and remap some keys, that fullscreen apps go to a separate workspace so I can't switch between their windows, etc. etc. And there are extra annoyances due to the architecture change, like having to re/cross compile stuff manually (for my specific use case). And it can't run games.
As others said, it's apples to oranges. "Casual" users can usually barely handle the OS they know and use, what makes anyone think they can switch to a different one with different logic?
Flag it. Flag every submarine ad on Hacker News. It'd be a boon for the site if it treated every positive article from companies with marketing budgets as astroturfing until proven otherwise. Same goes for political articles. And anyone caught at any time trying to game the system. Just blanket deleted for a set period of time. Offend again? Longer time. Third time? You're done. Forever.
The main page would only be cool projects and interesting tech news, instead of flame wars by confused people who think Apple and the rest of FAANG are a football teams. There's literally no downside.
Interesting. I have a 12900HX laptop with 4 × 2T 980 Pro-s, upgradeable to 128G DDR5 RAM. It has a large bright 4K screen, mechanical keyboard with Cherry keys, and one PCIe v5 slot for next gen 15GB/s SSDs. It is cold and extremely quiet in normal work, gets about 5h battery life under Manjaro w/5.17 kernel. It compiles our clang projects 2-3x faster than 2022 MBP models, installs software faster than MBP users finish typing "brew install", and native Docker and general VM performance on BTRFS RAID10 is so much faster it's not even funny. I'm fine with not having XXX hours battery life which I don't need since I work at a desk, on a laptop with ridiculous amounts of telemetry which I cannot even fully control. To me, my laptop (MSI GT77) is by far the best laptop right now. Really don't get this focus on battery life that Apple peddles this year.
I'm sure reviewers' "advertising partners" are none too happy to have another machine outperform their x86 machines so badly as to tacitly imply that no one should buy them. The reviewers need to pay their bills. It's no surprise they are going to take the Macbooks out of the comparison sheets even though, for all intents and purposes, they so the same thing as Windows laptops. There are way more of them than there are ARM laptops.
And yeah, I get it that in this crowd, there are many people that that need x86. But for the vast majority of consumers, all they need is a machine that can surf the web and open up spreadsheets.
> But for the vast majority of consumers, all they need is a machine that can surf the web and open up spreadsheets.
Okay, so why should they buy a $1,200 base model Macbook Air instead of a $200 Lenovo Chromebook? Better yet, why didn't Apple just let the iPad replace the Air if "all they need" is web browsing and office clients?
To be fair, the original author of the quoted article is probably doing most of the smoking of things. All Gruber did is restate it and add the obnoxious political snipe at the end.
Windows people, how much faster would a non-Windows machine have to be before you'd start to consider using something other than Windows? I know if the question were flipped and given to me as a Mac user, the answer would have to be something like "fast enough that the muscle memory and system knowledge I've gained from three decades of Mac use could be overcome by sheer system speed of the Windows machine," and that would have to be pretty damned fast. Given that it's pretty irrelevant to me to compare the two.
Exactly. It is rare, not the norm. But Gruber rarely goes outside of Apple circle so he doesn't know any of these. I cant count how many times he got things factually wrong. ( And rarely correct himself )
I mean when certain things on PC were actually better, did Gruber ever mentions it as an inconvenient truth?
Those rare reviews included MacBook when it could run Bootcamp ( Windows ). From a comparative point of view at least that make sense. Buyer aren't looking for Hardware differences, if nerds want to pinpoint that with GB5 they would have known.
And it is not like these site completely ignore Apple products either. They are just done in a separate article.
He is not smoking something but remembering a time of Apple just right after Jobs left the first time when after macs got expansion slots they started comparing macs to PCs.
Yes, old enough to remember that and expanding Performa macs for more performance.
I mean, here's an inconvenient truth: the software I use on a daily basis doesn't work on ARM. The software I develop at work doesn't run on ARM.
If there was a laptop that could replace my T460s with 20 hours of battery life, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, an x86 laptop with 4 hours of battery life is always going to be more productive than an ARM Macbook/Raspberry Pi for my purposes. I don't think that's denial, it's just the transactional cost of Apple continuing to cut people out of their ecosystem. That's a perfectly fine decision for them to make, but if you can't argue that Apple Silicon will work for everybody, you're defending a moot point. They could make a laptop with 100 hours of battery life, but if it can't run my Docker containers for work, then it can't replace what I have already.
Basically everything I've tried has worked on my Apple Silicon Mac, including x86_64 Docker containers using Docker Desktop. I'm sure there are applications that don't work, but I've yet to run into one first hand and I'm a software dev.
There's a commercial bias at play with pretty much all review content, print or otherwise. I've been griping about this for years now. The major outlets and Youtubers all have relationships with various vendors in order to get early access to products so their reviews can coincide with the product launch.
This creates an inherent conflict of interest that has to shape their reviews in some form or another. The problem is that there's no transparency at all. They're talking with company reps before a product launches and signing embargo agreements to not release content early. I'm not saying that every piece of review content is low quality shill clickbait BS, but the reviewer has a relationship with a company and there's no way that doesn't influence their work given that early access is important for staying relevant in the space.
I see this sort of complaint like RedLetterMedia making fun of Nerd podcasts [1] by satirizing how they are given gift bags, white glove early screenings, and emails with (marketing) executives but if you look at YouTube or most media there’s plenty of critique of superhero/‘capeshit’ movies.
We’re not all being forced to watch cable tv and read the same two local newspapers anymore.
Some people like lowest common denominator McDonalds-type corporate content. I don’t see that changing in the future (ie, some future where these people are better informed).
Personally I have both a surface studio laptop and a MBP. I find myself using the surface much more due to the touchscreen and pen input. It’s plenty fast and has great battery that lasts all day. Sure the MBP is really fast, but I mean, so what? So is the Surface. If I need to sign something on the MBP I still have to pull out an iPad, and I guess that’s the way Apple wants it.
This is what kills me about Apple right now. I want MacOS on the iPad so badly and I know I'm not the only one. They've kinda painted themselves into a corner as the iPads now run basically the same silicon as the MacBooks with such a stripped down OS. Having the option to run MacOS on the iPad would be incredible, but it would also likely cannibalize their market.
Assuming https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-laptops/ is the article being referred to, then the first section is what OS (with choices between Windows, MacOS, ChromeOS, with MacOS kinda being recommended), and a whole section on which Apple laptop to get.
The Apple ecosystem is separate from the Windows ecosystem, even more so lately. And Apple silicon machines can't run windows at all, whereas the intel ones could be coaxed into it.
So there's just no real point in comparing Apple and Wintel machines side by side.
The author suggests that comparing Arm vs. x86 is easy due to a Geekbench test comparison. That's one of very few cross-platform benchmarks and highlights the fact that the author isn't very well-versed (if versed at all) in competitive performance analysis or PC benchmarks.
Geekbench is a terrible proxy for ANY workload, those subtests all run within the space of a few seconds -- they aren't meant to actually represent performance in sustained workloads.
Additionally, the smashing together of results from a wide range of incomparable applications, including unfair weighting that skews for memory, makes the cumulative scores largely worthless.
Finding other relevant benchmarks for comparison is difficult, especially given the locked down nature of MacOS.
>many computer enthusiasts who do not like Macs, so they’ve gone into denial, like Fox News cultists and climate change
Fuck this guy. Wish I can flag this multiple times into the oblivion. I don't like Macs because they are locked down both on software and hardware. It's not a "personal" computer. Literally have to dance around Apple's limitation all the time if you want to use something not approved by the high and almighty.
If you want to live a walled garden so be it. But don't call people "Fox News cultists and climate change deniers" just because they want to use something else.
Not sure what to make of it but according to nothlebookcheck benchmark[1] it seems like the AMD 6800u is very close to apple M2, close enough to consider it as a viable alternative.
The biggests wins of the m2 are still power efficiency and neural engine for video rendering.
[+] [-] kayodelycaon|3 years ago|reply
For the sake of argument, let’s assume Apple’s latest laptops have thoroughly wiped the floor against PCs.
If that’s the case, Apple’s computers are in a completely different class. You now have ARM machines that run macOS and x86 machines that run any other operating system.
Thus, if you’re looking for an x86 machine, you’re not buying an Apple product.
This isn’t some inconvenient truth. If you include macs in a PC review… there isn’t any point. You’d be comparing apples with oranges.
Yes. I wrote this entire comment to make that joke. :)
[+] [-] mmcnl|3 years ago|reply
I would rather say people are in the market for something to write their thesis on, write some code or do creative work. MacBooks and Windows/Intel laptops can do this both. There is no apples to oranges comparison.
The separation of MacBooks and Windows/Intel laptops based on a chipset or OS is completely arbitrary and opinionated.
[+] [-] II2II|3 years ago|reply
For various reasons, I am firmly in the x86 camp. On the other hand, there is a very good reason to compare apples to oranges: for a good number of people a fruit is a fruit, but the flavour still matters.
Then there are the oddballs who used to install oranges into apples to get the best of both worlds. (Historical tid-bit, Orange Micro used to make PC compatibility cards for Macintosh computers.)
[+] [-] Gigachad|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] cassianoleal|3 years ago|reply
Not necessarily. You can run Linux on Apple Silicon today. Asahi is far from complete, missing lots of drivers and with other sharp corners, but it's been a better experience than I've had with most x86 laptops I've tried. What works works, the machine is stable, fast (even for some graphical applications despite the lack of GPU drivers!) and the battery life is great.
Apparently you can run some form of BSD on it as well but I have no idea how far the support is.
> Thus, if you’re looking for an x86 machine, you’re not buying an Apple product.
Perhaps, but I don't think a lot of people out there actually care about the underlying architecture unless they're developing architecture-specific stuff.
[+] [-] duxup|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] diziet|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thefz|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nojito|3 years ago|reply
Which are from retailers not manufacturers...
What's the issue there?
[+] [-] invalidname|3 years ago|reply
Some of the benchmarks only ran in Intel mode which puts Apple at an unfair disadvantage and might bias the results. Other benchmarks weren't designed for machines like the M1 Max and leave it well below 100% utilization even when natively compiled. A completely new cross platform benchmark is needed to do a proper comparison.
There are still some benchmarks on Ars comparing both architectures when applicable e.g when Intel launched the new CPUs and claimed they were faster than the M1 Ars ran the comparison to test that claim.
[+] [-] neonsunset|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smoldesu|3 years ago|reply
Really? I bet you can buy a laptop for 1/10th the price that can do 90% of the same software dev tasks. The only thing the 14" does better is iOS development, which you don't have a choice of machines for anyways. I love a lot of things about the 14" Macbook Pro, but defending it's value proposition is something I can't really understand. It's a $2,000 laptop running the same OS as a $900 laptop, running the same git binary that you execute on a $35 Raspberry Pi. I don't see it.
[+] [-] greenthrow|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _fat_santa|3 years ago|reply
I've thrown around the idea of dropping big money ($4.8k the way I specced it) on a Mac Studio with an M1 Max. Up until now the idea was silly considering I have a perfectly good Macbook Pro from work without any spyware that I get for free. But dammit this M1 loaner might have pushed me over the edge.
[+] [-] organsnyder|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kyriakos|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pragmatic|3 years ago|reply
If you are a PC gamer by definition a Mac will not work for you.
For those of us with high end needs and can run on Macs (devs, etc) then of course the perf comparison is valid.
But everyone is not us (devs, etc)
This is a strange article. I think many review sites have split the reviews into best iPhone/best android and best Mac/best windows laptop as there is simply no point in trying to convert people from their religion.
To my original point, the one area Apple can’t (won’t) compete is on price. Not everyone needs an expensive super thin laptop. Some people can spend $500 and get exactly what they need in a laptop.
[+] [-] LionTamer|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sofixa|3 years ago|reply
Apple's products mostly make sense within it's ecosystem. If you're not already there, there are a lot of hurdles and useless things.
As a lifelong Windows and Linux user (with a couple of years of iMac usage at school), i now have a work provided MacBook Pro. Almost every other week i discover something new about it that annoys me - be it Pages automatically saving in its own shitty proprietary format instead of the original, the impossibility to have separate scroll order between mouse and touchpad, that while it sleeps Bluetooth is still on thus tricking various devices to connect to it, that i have to run a keylogger to add custom shortcuts and remap some keys, that fullscreen apps go to a separate workspace so I can't switch between their windows, etc. etc. And there are extra annoyances due to the architecture change, like having to re/cross compile stuff manually (for my specific use case). And it can't run games.
As others said, it's apples to oranges. "Casual" users can usually barely handle the OS they know and use, what makes anyone think they can switch to a different one with different logic?
[+] [-] Kukumber|3 years ago|reply
They probably have signed some juicy sponsorships with the Intel PCs and none from Apple
Their links says it all
To me personally, it's clear that Apple made every Intel/AMD laptop companies out of business, they are stuck since 2 decades ago
Apple with ARM and specialy their care with performance/watt and focus on energy efficiency changed the game
[+] [-] fartcannon|3 years ago|reply
The main page would only be cool projects and interesting tech news, instead of flame wars by confused people who think Apple and the rest of FAANG are a football teams. There's literally no downside.
[+] [-] mstaoru|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] charlie0|3 years ago|reply
And yeah, I get it that in this crowd, there are many people that that need x86. But for the vast majority of consumers, all they need is a machine that can surf the web and open up spreadsheets.
[+] [-] smoldesu|3 years ago|reply
Okay, so why should they buy a $1,200 base model Macbook Air instead of a $200 Lenovo Chromebook? Better yet, why didn't Apple just let the iPad replace the Air if "all they need" is web browsing and office clients?
[+] [-] phendrenad2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cyberdog|3 years ago|reply
Windows people, how much faster would a non-Windows machine have to be before you'd start to consider using something other than Windows? I know if the question were flipped and given to me as a Mac user, the answer would have to be something like "fast enough that the muscle memory and system knowledge I've gained from three decades of Mac use could be overcome by sheer system speed of the Windows machine," and that would have to be pretty damned fast. Given that it's pretty irrelevant to me to compare the two.
[+] [-] ksec|3 years ago|reply
I mean when certain things on PC were actually better, did Gruber ever mentions it as an inconvenient truth?
Those rare reviews included MacBook when it could run Bootcamp ( Windows ). From a comparative point of view at least that make sense. Buyer aren't looking for Hardware differences, if nerds want to pinpoint that with GB5 they would have known.
And it is not like these site completely ignore Apple products either. They are just done in a separate article.
[+] [-] runjake|3 years ago|reply
"They're going head to head with Apple's MacBook Pros—at the event announcing the systems, Microsoft even made this comparison explicitly."
Edit: Here's various tech outfits directly comparing Apple MacBooks to traditional PCs for "best laptop:
The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/21250695/best-laptops
CNET: https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/best-laptop/
PCMAG: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-laptops
Engadget: https://www.engadget.com/best-laptops-120008636.html
[+] [-] fredgrott|3 years ago|reply
Yes, old enough to remember that and expanding Performa macs for more performance.
[+] [-] smoldesu|3 years ago|reply
If there was a laptop that could replace my T460s with 20 hours of battery life, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, an x86 laptop with 4 hours of battery life is always going to be more productive than an ARM Macbook/Raspberry Pi for my purposes. I don't think that's denial, it's just the transactional cost of Apple continuing to cut people out of their ecosystem. That's a perfectly fine decision for them to make, but if you can't argue that Apple Silicon will work for everybody, you're defending a moot point. They could make a laptop with 100 hours of battery life, but if it can't run my Docker containers for work, then it can't replace what I have already.
[+] [-] cybrexalpha|3 years ago|reply
Basically everything I've tried has worked on my Apple Silicon Mac, including x86_64 Docker containers using Docker Desktop. I'm sure there are applications that don't work, but I've yet to run into one first hand and I'm a software dev.
[+] [-] brundolf|3 years ago|reply
I don't understand; Docker Desktop for Apple Silicon runs x86 containers out of the box
[+] [-] thr0wawayf00|3 years ago|reply
This creates an inherent conflict of interest that has to shape their reviews in some form or another. The problem is that there's no transparency at all. They're talking with company reps before a product launches and signing embargo agreements to not release content early. I'm not saying that every piece of review content is low quality shill clickbait BS, but the reviewer has a relationship with a company and there's no way that doesn't influence their work given that early access is important for staying relevant in the space.
[+] [-] dmix|3 years ago|reply
We’re not all being forced to watch cable tv and read the same two local newspapers anymore.
Some people like lowest common denominator McDonalds-type corporate content. I don’t see that changing in the future (ie, some future where these people are better informed).
But maybe I’m just cynical.
[1] https://youtu.be/UCIYCaXNe88
[+] [-] ModernMech|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thr0wawayf00|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blinding-streak|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pcdoodle|3 years ago|reply
Some people don't want 2 websites to maintain or just want to keep their publishing overhead to what they're used to.
[+] [-] cosmotic|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duxup|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jackvalentine|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aragilar|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacknews|3 years ago|reply
So there's just no real point in comparing Apple and Wintel machines side by side.
The article seems like a conspiracy theory.
[+] [-] ItsTotallyOn|3 years ago|reply
Geekbench is a terrible proxy for ANY workload, those subtests all run within the space of a few seconds -- they aren't meant to actually represent performance in sustained workloads.
Additionally, the smashing together of results from a wide range of incomparable applications, including unfair weighting that skews for memory, makes the cumulative scores largely worthless.
Finding other relevant benchmarks for comparison is difficult, especially given the locked down nature of MacOS.
[+] [-] haunter|3 years ago|reply
Fuck this guy. Wish I can flag this multiple times into the oblivion. I don't like Macs because they are locked down both on software and hardware. It's not a "personal" computer. Literally have to dance around Apple's limitation all the time if you want to use something not approved by the high and almighty.
If you want to live a walled garden so be it. But don't call people "Fox News cultists and climate change deniers" just because they want to use something else.
[+] [-] fold3|3 years ago|reply
The biggests wins of the m2 are still power efficiency and neural engine for video rendering.
[1]https://www.notebookcheck.net/M2-vs-R7-6800U_14521_14088.247...