It's called "The Line" because it's straight. It does not "snake". What's with editors these days?
It's supposed to run on renewables be less energy intensive and incorporate "green" technologies but somehow NPR feels it needs to bash this project because some people think it's impractical in the desert. The whole place is mostly desert. Where do they propose they build cities, maybe instead find rainforest to cut down instead?
> It's supposed to run on renewables be less energy intensive and incorporate "green" technologies
Anyone can say that, but there is nothing apparently green about the design, whether you built it in the desert or on grass plains.
Giant mirrors in the middle of the desert, is good for what? At least there isn't anything to scorch, I guess.
The city is optimized to make travel distances as long as possible. No matter how you power those trains, shorter routes are more economical than longer routes.
The desert is not flat. So if the structure's centerline goes up & down (rather than left & right), does that count as "snaking" ? Can "snake" be an abstraction along an arbitrary axis ?
Yeah, I believe they're actually trying to make the strip green too. It might have a net benefit to the environment if it actually works. It'll definitely reduce the temp in the surrounding area.
When you talk about megascale projects like this one, it's good to use the unit of Gigaton.
Humanity produces 5 substances in the gigatons per year: coal (8 GT/y), oil, natural gas, concrete (about 4 GT/y each) and steel (2 GT/y). Everything else (in order, plastics, fertilizers, ammonia) are less than 0.5 GT/y.
This project is supposed to be 200 meters wide, and 500 meters tall. If on average from the width of 200 meters, only 2 meters are concrete, then each kilometer of this project will have a volume of 1 cubic kilometer. Concrete has a density of about 2.2 tons/m3, so each kilometer of this structure will use 2.2 GT of concrete. Each mile will consume roughly the entire global annual production of concrete. If you build one mile per year, it will take 105 years to build the project.
If you want to finish the project in just 25 years, you need to continuously use 4 times more concrete than the world currently produces.
Transport time calculations using the max speed of >500km/h are misleading. I doubt that all passengers want to travel from one end to the opposite end. You might need to travel any partial distance to visit relatives, concerts, doctors etc. So you need to add many train stations (6 min walking distance: one per kilometer? Probably not, more about 10-20 stations over the total distance), or add hub and spoke design with other (slower) means of transportation and introducing inconvenience of changing transport 2-3 times, or multiple lines in parallel covering smaller parts.
There were concepts many years ago to have commuter capsules accelerating and dock to longer high speed trains, to avoid the slow-down of stops at stations.
I like the idea of using only 5% of the real estate and preserve 95% theoretically untouched - but the gigantic building will certainly change the surrounding environment by blocking air flow, reflecting sun to south, adding shadow to the north, etc. and you need to add lots of solar or wind farms, probably outside the actual building.
This gigantomanic plan is more an expression of prestige, non-democratic power, and an excellent way to totally police the people inside. Another useless waste of money, energy, building material, nature, probably human live of slave labor.
A useful project would need to include all stakeholders in the design phase, including a democratic process to define targets, outcomes, financing etc.
The first one (Jumeirah) is _very_ successful, and commands some of the highest house prices in Dubai.
It is on the back of this success construction of 2 additional Palms were started before 2006.
Palm Jebal Ali went bankrupt before any house construction began originally, but after construction of the island, and has been empty for quite some time (but not eroding).
Development recently began and the first villas have been sold.
Palm Deira went banktrupt before the palm part of the project was constructed and has been renamed to Deira Islands. There are some development there, but it isn't a destination anyone seems to talk about.
The scale of the 3 palms are miniscule compared to the wall in Saudi
I'm not sure about the height, but a 105 mile long city pretty much enforces public transit.
If you think about it, how many small towns are there that only exist on small state route highways? Of course the residential areas may sprawl a few blocks away, but if you combine these towns, you get one long straight city.
I suppose building up alleviates a lot of the solar gain, and the gives you a weather protected courtyard between the structures, and also lets you manage water much easier.
Maybe I'm mislead, but here you have a city where you are basically stuck where you live because all amenities MUST be where you live.
105 miles is 168km, they say 20mn end to end, that's 140m/s, or ~500km/h. So only from one end to the other, no stop. Even by electrical means, that's very loud, try to stand near an high speed train in France or Japan. In a tunnel ? Good luck if there is the slightest problem with it, you are stuck. Goods, food, whatever ? Tough luck, you have nothing to eat for days, weeks, months.
That's obviously a place where the government does as it pleases, you won't be rioting there. 100 cops and you are stuck. You are probably living far from the top, no solar power, no water, no food. You bought yourself total dependencies to someone. A king of some sort.
No cars or roads, you only depend on the state for moving more than 6km/h in the best case scenario, but there are 9 millions people trying to move as well.
>but here you have a city where you are basically stuck where you live because all amenities MUST be where you live.
You are misled. For example, the Burj Khalifa is not connected to municipal wastewater treatment meaning all human waste from the building needs to be hauled by poop trucks out of the city.
When I read about it a week or two ago it struck me as an incredibly dumb idea. However KSA has hired some pretty big global architecture firms to design this city and I have to imagine they know better than I do.
Maybe so, but they might just be willing to take MBS's money to nod and make cool designs that will probably never get built. Which, can't really blame them.
[+] [-] mc32|3 years ago|reply
It's supposed to run on renewables be less energy intensive and incorporate "green" technologies but somehow NPR feels it needs to bash this project because some people think it's impractical in the desert. The whole place is mostly desert. Where do they propose they build cities, maybe instead find rainforest to cut down instead?
[+] [-] wodenokoto|3 years ago|reply
Anyone can say that, but there is nothing apparently green about the design, whether you built it in the desert or on grass plains.
Giant mirrors in the middle of the desert, is good for what? At least there isn't anything to scorch, I guess.
The city is optimized to make travel distances as long as possible. No matter how you power those trains, shorter routes are more economical than longer routes.
[+] [-] euroderf|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xeromal|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hulitu|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] credit_guy|3 years ago|reply
Humanity produces 5 substances in the gigatons per year: coal (8 GT/y), oil, natural gas, concrete (about 4 GT/y each) and steel (2 GT/y). Everything else (in order, plastics, fertilizers, ammonia) are less than 0.5 GT/y.
This project is supposed to be 200 meters wide, and 500 meters tall. If on average from the width of 200 meters, only 2 meters are concrete, then each kilometer of this project will have a volume of 1 cubic kilometer. Concrete has a density of about 2.2 tons/m3, so each kilometer of this structure will use 2.2 GT of concrete. Each mile will consume roughly the entire global annual production of concrete. If you build one mile per year, it will take 105 years to build the project.
If you want to finish the project in just 25 years, you need to continuously use 4 times more concrete than the world currently produces.
[+] [-] outsidein|3 years ago|reply
There were concepts many years ago to have commuter capsules accelerating and dock to longer high speed trains, to avoid the slow-down of stops at stations.
I like the idea of using only 5% of the real estate and preserve 95% theoretically untouched - but the gigantic building will certainly change the surrounding environment by blocking air flow, reflecting sun to south, adding shadow to the north, etc. and you need to add lots of solar or wind farms, probably outside the actual building.
This gigantomanic plan is more an expression of prestige, non-democratic power, and an excellent way to totally police the people inside. Another useless waste of money, energy, building material, nature, probably human live of slave labor.
A useful project would need to include all stakeholders in the design phase, including a democratic process to define targets, outcomes, financing etc.
[+] [-] iancmceachern|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wodenokoto|3 years ago|reply
The first one (Jumeirah) is _very_ successful, and commands some of the highest house prices in Dubai.
It is on the back of this success construction of 2 additional Palms were started before 2006.
Palm Jebal Ali went bankrupt before any house construction began originally, but after construction of the island, and has been empty for quite some time (but not eroding).
Development recently began and the first villas have been sold.
Palm Deira went banktrupt before the palm part of the project was constructed and has been renamed to Deira Islands. There are some development there, but it isn't a destination anyone seems to talk about.
The scale of the 3 palms are miniscule compared to the wall in Saudi
[+] [-] lbsnake7|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] turtlebits|3 years ago|reply
If you think about it, how many small towns are there that only exist on small state route highways? Of course the residential areas may sprawl a few blocks away, but if you combine these towns, you get one long straight city.
I suppose building up alleviates a lot of the solar gain, and the gives you a weather protected courtyard between the structures, and also lets you manage water much easier.
[+] [-] jylam|3 years ago|reply
105 miles is 168km, they say 20mn end to end, that's 140m/s, or ~500km/h. So only from one end to the other, no stop. Even by electrical means, that's very loud, try to stand near an high speed train in France or Japan. In a tunnel ? Good luck if there is the slightest problem with it, you are stuck. Goods, food, whatever ? Tough luck, you have nothing to eat for days, weeks, months.
That's obviously a place where the government does as it pleases, you won't be rioting there. 100 cops and you are stuck. You are probably living far from the top, no solar power, no water, no food. You bought yourself total dependencies to someone. A king of some sort.
No cars or roads, you only depend on the state for moving more than 6km/h in the best case scenario, but there are 9 millions people trying to move as well.
Who the hell would want that ?
[+] [-] cuteboy19|3 years ago|reply
You are misled. For example, the Burj Khalifa is not connected to municipal wastewater treatment meaning all human waste from the building needs to be hauled by poop trucks out of the city.
[+] [-] m348e912|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dragonwriter|3 years ago|reply
And what they know is “we have a fantastically rich client and an ego-driven vanity project to milk”.
[+] [-] joney_baloney|3 years ago|reply
Maybe so, but they might just be willing to take MBS's money to nod and make cool designs that will probably never get built. Which, can't really blame them.
[+] [-] TazeTSchnitzel|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mensetmanusman|3 years ago|reply
If one part gets hot and the other part cold, you can get huge stress buildup and buckling.
Keeping a straight line straight can be a big challenge.
[+] [-] Teever|3 years ago|reply
Imagine this building will be the same.
[+] [-] outsidein|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] midislack|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fred_is_fred|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antonymy|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dusted|3 years ago|reply