I think this is great advice. The key is being genuine and appreciative. Take care of your neediness in other ways. If you don't know how to listen, writing lots of notes can be just another way of monopolizing the conversation. Use the note as a way to maintain the intimacy you already have.
Ps my marriage lasted happily for 37 years until the untimely death of my beloved wife.
I think the responses / strategies / etc. are diverse because relationships are as diverse as the human race. What works in one relationship has no guarantee of working in another.
The article is certainly well-meaning but it has a bit of a "one weird trick" feel to it. It's written by a 30 year old man who has done something to improve his marriage which is great. It's anyone's guess what kind of article he's going to write when he's 60. He's on a good track, he's learned that regular communication is almost always a win, my own $0.02 is that if there's any one secret weapon, it's that.
But there are also relationships and people where there's nothing that will work, someone is just a rotten apple, or maybe the trust is irreparably damaged. I've had partners who were such supportive, caring human beings that I felt humbled - a little ashamed of my own selfishness by comparison. But I've also had partners who were clearly in it for themselves, seeing what they could milk out of me, and no amount of communication was going to change that. For the latter there was no strategy that was going to fix it - the only right path was to end it and move on.
I don’t fear much but my wife dying before me is up there, right after my kids. I hope to experience and provide the marriage you’ve experienced.
This year will be my third married and my 10th being in a relationship with my wife. It’s been a tumultuous journey at times because of lack of communication.
In lieu of notes like OP mentioned, my wife and I just check in with each other every morning. And, throughout the day. She’s naturally thoughtful while I’m mostly focused on myself. We had a talk a few months ago and it was revealed that my self-centeredness was a defense mechanism I haven’t needed to deploy for at least a decade.
I could go on and on so I’ll just stop here and co-sign once more; communicate with your spouse. And then do it even more than that.
I have been married for ~10 years. Ups and downs, but mostly happy to have chosen her. And hoping to get to 37, and past that, and live a long life together. I really hope that.
I guess I just don’t care about any of this. I can tell if my wife (or girlfriend) loves me or not based on body language and actions. These sorts of things have no significance to me, words mean very little. I’m all about action— body language, your tone when speaking, a respectful demeanor, being gracious and pleasant, smiling a lot, keeping the peace - are the only things that matter in my opinion.
I have had an opposite experience. Daily notes makes no difference. I was in a relationship for 2 years and have written a poem every day for 400 days straight to her. But it failed nevertheless. In fact, I was told by her that these notes put her in guilt. Weird.
Gestures like these amplify whatever the relationship there is to start with.
If there's a lot of love, they amplify it.
If there's a lot of lack of commitment, they amplify it.
They do not change lack of commitment into love magically.
Sorry for being the party pooper. I understand where the OP is coming from and I truly respect that. Just wanted to add a bit of more context.
> But it failed nevertheless. In fact, I was told by her that these notes put her in guilt. Weird.
I think you're missing some perspective here. You make it sound like you were the one really trying, and your partner is the one who was weird for not "getting it".
I would honestly be pretty freaked out if my partner wrote me daily poems for 400 days. It would come off as very needy and obsessive, and if it continued after me bringing it up, I could see it as a reason to break things off.
Of course some people might really like daily poems. But from what you wrote, it sounds a little like you've failed to read the room, and are now blaming others for that.
> have written a poem every day for 400 days straight to her
I'm sure this was a painful lesson to learn, but I hope you took the right thing away from it.
No healthy relationship is going to include 400 daily poems. It makes it seem like the subject of the poems is being put on a pedestal and idealized, not perceived as a real person with flaws.
It comes across as obsessive and, perhaps, insincere -- how can someone have 400 poems' worth of feelings for someone they've known for less than 2 years? And if they don't have those sincere feelings, what are they trying to accomplish?
Read a little bit about "love bombing" (not because I think you love-bombed anyone, but because it might help you understand how the recipient of this behavior might feel about it).
Obviously it's not quite the same thing, but reminds me of an old neighbour we had.
She used to love baking, and would bring round cakes/pastries/bread for us all the time.
It was really nice at first, but also made us feel very awkward/bad that we didn't reciprocate (neither of us really cook much), even though we'd never asked for the cakes.
Eventually we had to ask her to stop, since we just didn't want to eat that much unhealthy food. She took it as a bit of an insult, and ended up being a lot colder to us after that.
It was a shame, but I'm not sure what else we could have done - she was giving us something unasked for (which we felt burdened by, even though she said she never expected anything in return), and got upset when we asked her to stop.
> Though, I’ve set that expectation, and she holds me accountable to it, so I do it very often.
This is a shared ritual, which I feel is powerful in any type of relationship. You have rituals at work and with your friends. These rituals are an ingredient in the glue which give relationships meaning.
They need that shared sense of importance to work though. Other parts of the relationship should be healthy. Good communication is a must. Did she tell you that the notes made her feel guilty during this 400 day stretch? If not, then maybe communication was off.
I'm sorry for what you went through. When one person is giving more that the other relationships can be a real struggle. I've been there I gave 110% and it scared someone off. The entire thing felt awful.
Some years later I found my wife and she responds very differently. She would love a note every day. Any attention I give her is welcomed.
> I was in a relationship for 2 years and have written a poem every day for 400 days straight to her.
While there may be some people like you enjoying maxed up romantic relationships I would run away in no time from a partner just trying to hard. Imagine getting home everyday to be greeted with a "gift of a day", 10 bullet points in refined calligraphy how much he/she loves me, new scent, yet another laborious make up etc.
Most of us will never be able to match that, be it because of no time/energy or a simple "let me rest after work, read a book/go for a walk". Relationship imho is not an attempt to create a Siamese twins in a mental space. Satisfy the needs of your partner, top it with extra stuff, but do not try to kill it drowning him/her in a waterfall of attention, gifts, questions about everything, etc.
In order for a relationship to remain healthy, the communication has to be bi-directional (and both parties need to feel that it is bi-directional). Writing a poem to your partner every day can be fine; if it makes your partner feel like it drowns out or undermines their signals to you, it's insensitive.
If you have an issue with your communication to your partner (either in not producing it consistently or not feeling that it's received consistently), changing it up to something you can generate (and/or your partner can receive in the intended spirit), building a habit that changes up your communication can help. On the other hand, if that habit makes your partner feel inundated, overwhelmed, or drowns out their communication to you, it can make things worse.
This isn't really context it's more a subjective and singular viewpoint from somebody who's relationship failed and perhaps was always going to fail regardless of the poems.
Not trying to be horrible here...just pointing out that this is not context.
Writing a poem is a bit different than the writing OP doing which is communicating in general about everything and everyone.
I don't want to dunk on the act of writing poems which is perfectly fine, but that's the creation of art. If you look at how he structures his communication, there are active day-to-day issues/problems being addressed that if left unresolved prevent the appreciation of something like a poem.
And as everyone else said, sometimes relationships don't work out and you did your best.
Regardless of outcomes, your faithfulness is still virtuous. Living completely in inner truth is what you want to aim for. Sometimes that means persevering in truth over a period of time. When it doesn't work out, you have trained yourself to be faithful. The most important thing is probaly that whatever you are doing is truth for you, but without dependency on the other. There is no dependency when reciprocation is not necessary in order for you to feel loved by the simple act of doing what is true for you. I've met a person with an imaginary relationship and it keeps him focused on his creative output. It's very important to be able to maximise creative output (perhaps through your muse?) and to not overrationalise. That is because we live in the age of DALLE and artificial imagination, and you need all the entropy you can get!
Sure but if your problem is that you don’t think about your spouse enough, this might help. There’s a lot of reasons relationships fail, this seems to try to address one or more ways it can fail.
this is probably related to the effect of different ways we perceive love. see the five love languages. we need to talk to our partners about that and try things to find out what makes them feel our love. and also tell them how we receive them.
Since we're being party poopers, it's worth noting that if your relationship fails it is, by definition, because you are unattractive to your partner. If that's the case, then yes attention from an unattractive person is a major turn-off. That's hardly a great revelation, but even so that kind of common sense appears to be sorely lacking amongst many persons.
My wife and I write an annual letter to one another. They are truly magical and they are great to read back, often bringing us to tears and capturing the struggles of raising children, moving continents etc. They unleash memories when read.
We have ten years of them and they are truly amazing and I recommend it as a slightly less involved shared (two way) ritual .
Author here - We do that too! Typically we'll write a letter for the other person for their birthday. It's a much more reflective letter (whereas the daily note is more "what's going on right now"). Great tip.
To be honest, I think of something like this as far more intimate and thoughtful than writing a letter once a day. Sure, they're apples and oranges. But taking the time to write a letter each year forces you to think about the year in an anniversarial lens; the meaningful moments, the memories, the struggles, the victories, the journeys.
I do this as well with my wife of 10 years, although it's not something we agreed upon -- it just ends up happening in lieu of or in addition to a birthday/anniversary/valentine/whatever gift. Agreed on all points.
For anyone skimming the comments first, I found the author's outline to be the most interesting segment (though I recommend reading the essay in full):
"Here’s a general outline of what I write:
"Gratitude (for her, her hard work, her amazing looks, etc.)
"What I’m working on today.
"What I’m working towards (goals, deadlines, etc.)
"Anything I’m excited about.
"Anything that’s bothering me (stress, anxiety, pessimism, etc.)
"Ideas that I have (parenting, fixing the home, work related, etc.)
"Transactional stuff (finances, things I need to take care of, stuff I need to remember, etc.)
"Questions (are there any events coming up, are we doing a date night this week, etc.)
"Gratitude (for the life we have, the things we have, the time we have, the kids we have, etc.)
"I don’t write every section every day, but those are the general categories I usually fall into. The note usually takes me just shy of a half-hour if I’m not distracted."
The notes are quite thoughtful: many of these points sound sweet, and several of the prompts could still work for people who aren't in a relationship. The appreciation shown, and the self-reflection, likely both strengthen the relationship.
some of that is what i write for myself in my journal. some times i share parts of my journal, or i share something with my partner that then gets added into the journal...
I am going to get a lot of flak for this. But the more I read things like these, the more I feel marriage is not for everyone and society has a whole should stop gushing down this concept to next generation.
Personally I feel, If you have to write a note to your spouse everyday to "save your marriage", then you probably didnt have one to begin with.
Marriage takes work, lots of work. The reward in my experience is totally worth it. You have to lay down part of your life for the new life that you experience with your spouse and children. The individual you once were is now part of a family and no longer exists as an individual. You serve your family and they serve you back. For me the amount I give of myself is much less than I receive back from the marriage / family. I would argue the amount everyone involved receives is more than the sum total they put in.
If writing a note each day is too much work for you, then the daily sacrifices of being in a loving marriage may be too much for you. If that is the case you might want to think about what you're giving up and why. If you are happy with the exchange then great but I think many don't know how great it can be.
Modern generations have been influenced by the Romantics, who, amongst other things, put forward the idea that self-sacrificing marriage is actually less noble than purely passionate love. This evolved into the notion that a marriage requires consistent passion, and that if you don't have it, something is wrong.
But it turns out that marriage is really just a partnership and relationship, and all different kinds of people have different styles and interpretations of what that is and how it works for them. Some people need a lot of passion, some people need a lot of stability, some may need both, or neither.
But there is definitely something to the notion that good relationships don't come easy. People are all flawed in different ways, and sometimes people need help to work through those flaws in order to have successful relationships. Plus, a marriage may involve some long term expensive investments, like a mortgage, pets, children. So "saving your marriage" might actually be quite a rational and emotionally intelligent act, if all partners are amenable to it. Best-case scenario: you end up with a long-term loving partnership and a wonderful life; worst-case, you don't. Seems like it's worth saving?
i think you're missing the point. it's not that you have to write a note to your spouse to save your marriage. the act of writing forces you to think and evaluate, and those acts of reflection, and 'public' appreciation, help keep the small problems from becoming the big problems.
like in karate kid, "wax on, wax off" is not about the wax.
but, you're right, marriage isn't for everyone. but i also don't think TFA is trying to convince everyone to get married.
I would frame it differently. There seem to be many dysfunctional marriages that are carried by e.g. inertia - and because of this, I do agree that perhaps marriage shouldn't be taken as such an assumption. By the same token, though, those that _do_ choose to engage in marriage should accept the responsibility and the (apparently, I am not married) large amount of effort it takes to make it successful. I'm choosing to look at this tactic as embracing that effort, and striving for an excellent marriage, instead of the "passable" marriage which seems to be the norm today.
Some relationships work by being easy. Some work by being well suited to partner on a big and delicate project, like raising a family.
The person you’d most love to raise a family with (or run a fishing boat with, or whatever), isn’t necessarily the “easy” partner whose super cozy and gets you all the time and never needs you to make a special effort beyond what comes naturally.
But at some point, if it’s what you want to do, you pick a partner for what’s important to you and make good on that choice. Depending on who you are and who you picked, that latter bit of “making good” might benefit from a few contrived gestures and rituals that wouldn’t have been necessary in some other “easy” relationship. But that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong relationship or an unhealthy relationship, it’s just your relationship; and if those things make it better, why wouldn’t you do them?
Completely agree. I’m convinced that the get married have kids, raise them well, they become good workers, if you time it right we are all corporate drones as a happy family - dream is pretty horrible.
I want to work to not have to work anymore. I can’t think about a partner because I’m too dead from work to give someone else the commitment they might deserve. Don’t want kids that sounds like work. Nothing is wrong with me just want to be able to relax without commitment.
This is very much a fair-weather first-third-of-life perspective.
I see quite a lot of elderly people with health problems. The ones that are completely alone… it’s a pretty wretched existence, frankly. That’s the reality. Not to say all marriages are great obviously, but often even an ex-husband is better than no husband at all.
For quite a long time this was a very obvious and common sense statement. That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage, for example.
Marriage isn't perfect, especially not with today's divorce law and family court system, but the idea of joining into a union with a new person and creating a new family unit, even if without kids, is probably the best system for most people. Single people have a way of going feral IMO.
I agree 100%. Marriage works for some, but we shouldn’t assume it works for all. People should be encouraged to seek the model that works for them best. That said, if you have a relationship that works, it’s definitely worth putting time into it in some way.
I'm in a very similar demographic as the author so I empathise with how hard things can be, but this:
>there’s not a lot of time for communication with my wife. We’re on the go from sun-up to sun-down, and at the end of the day we drop into bed exhausted to get just enough sleep for the next day.
Oh boy. That sounds awful.
Rather than trying to work around that busyness, personally I would go out of my way to just not have that. Maybe I'm naive, but I want to be continuously moving towards being less busy and having more time for my family. Actual time, disposable time. Not time-compressed, high-information-density notes.
That's was one thing that seemed odd to me. Take 15-45 minutes to write a note. Or, y'know, be present for 15-45 minutes right there in person.
However I suspect this is less about time management and more about communication styles: this person is a writer. They communicate better when writing.
It’s an old, oft repeated saying, but nobody ever laments not working enough when they’re on their death bed, but frequently people do regret not spending enough time with loved ones.
Great post! Thanks for sharing something so personal. Being married and having kids is very rewarding, but also very challenging.
Being a good husband or father is not something that is a given. This is especially true in the asymmetric situation where one parent stays at home. Good for you for finding meaningful ways to be there for your partner and sharing it.
Sharing our experiences for what works helps us all be better! If this post even helps one other dad be a better father and husband, the world is immeasurably improved.
Is it just me or does anybody else think having to “do” something to want to talk to each other is weird? I feel like the trust between these two was very broken at this point. Usually when both parties have a healthy emotional well being and they like each other (and have kids also, so they have a lot in common I guess?) it would only be normal to want to talk with each other.
Looks more like a symptom of fatigue or emotional discomfort to me if you don’t want to talk to your spouse. I would start looking Into that before I would fire off random text book romantic gestures to “save my marriage”.
Relationships exist for a lot of reasons simultaneously, and long ones will become more and less about different reasons at different times.
For people raising kids together, the relationship can often become dominated by the practical partnership of family-rearing because it’s so consuming. You do that parenting thing all the time and you love your partner for what they add to it and that feels like plenty. That project becomes so fundamental and sufficient that a lot of other parts of the relationship can quietly fade even while the relationship as a whole is very strong.
Consciously investing in sharing (or romance, or sex, or travel, or career encouragement, or business partnership, or whatever) can help revive and sustain the multidimensionality of the relationship, and keep it strong and richly satisfying as various other parts wax and wane.
Of course, you can also just have a great relationship that rides a “no (conscious) effort” vibe and it can be a long and exciting and rich relationship too. It’s not like there are rules.
There’s just no reason to question the OP’s relationship just on the grounds of them choosing to put in some extra effort.
OP didn't say they don't want to talk to their spouse and I definitely didn't read anything here that suggested broken trust, emotional discomfort, etc. Maybe you are reading your own experiences into this? They were clearly saying that their life was happy, but extremely busy, so writing is a way to connect when they aren't able to do so in person as often as they would like.
i think part of the problem is, that when everyone is busy it is easy for habits to take over and communication to reduce, especially when things are otherwise going well. but then when things get worse the lack of communication makes it more difficult to notice.
in that case, doing something to break out of that and increase communication again sounds like the right step.
The type of job and how you are wired makes a big difference in how you communicate. Like the OP, I'm someone who has always worked in startups (until the last couple months at a non-profit). I've always been on the product / leadership side and most recently cofounded a company where I had to wear all the hats for 7+ years. Most waking moments were focused on making the company successful and ensuring a stable income for my family (I have 4 kids under 17). My older kids are travel soccer players, life is busy and my communication with my wife has suffered for a long while. With limited time together a marriage still needs to move along... I appreciate the OP using all means of communication to improve the relationship. I too am a better writer than speaker so I will add some of his advice to my toolchest.
Author here - Sounds like you're in a similar situation (just 10 years ahead of me). I think this would work great for you, but you clearly have been doing something right to keep the marriage afloat for that long!
> I’m a husband who is 30. I also have 4 kids, ages 6 and under. I’m the sole-provider for the family (though my wife works harder). Between the job, the kids, and extrafamilial obligations, there’s not a lot of time for communication with my wife. We’re on the go from sun-up to sun-down, and at the end of the day we drop into bed exhausted to get just enough sleep for the next day. Very often in the past, a week or so would go by and I hadn’t even so much as checked in on my wife.
The author is the founder, owner, and operator of a company, and from a quick view, is quite successful at his work. Plus, he is in a relationship where his partner is supportive of his dreams and long hours. And he has kids at the same time.
That sounds like a great life to me. Not a lot of people get the opportunity, and not very many people can pull it off. I'm sure life will be more relaxed when the kids leave the home after become adults, too.
I have two kids under 6 and while it was very hard for about a year or so I realized that I am a lot happier than I was before I had kids, even though I do an order of magnitude more chores. Then I realized that this is the reason I am happier --- I work; and I don't mean I work for an employer, I work for my family, my children, my house. This is what makes me happy.
There is an ancient Greek saying: Not working is the root of all evil.
We (family with two kids under the age of 4) just moved to Texas, been in there ER once, urgent care twice, had stomach flu, ear infection, viral rash, a flat tire, water damage in the house we bought resulting in lots of money flying out the window and a scramble to find temp housing.
All in the past two weeks.
It’s pure hell to the point you laugh instead of cry.
For example, yesterday our kids got into daycare which meant the only thing my wife and I had to do was work. We could finally get a few hours of focus. Not thirty minutes into work the house cleaners I had forgotten about showed up to start cleaning.
Sometimes life seems nonstop.
But when my three year old gives me a kiss on the cheek or my one year old just wanted me to hold him, my world stops for just a moment and I realize how lucky we’ve been to even get to this point.
It does sound hectic, but it's not hell, because he loves what he does, and clearly loves his wife and kids. That sacrifice (on the part of him and his wife) is for those they love.
I do think it's kinda weird to write his wife a daily note -- presumably it takes him 15-30 minutes to write the note. Why not spend that time talking face-to-face with her instead? For me and my wife (I'm in a similar stage of life) we cherish that ~30 minutes before bed to have a cup of tea, regroup, chat about the kind of things he writes in his note, and so on.
Though he did say that writing the notes has helped their relationship, and they now "talk more than ever (weird, right?)". So if it's working for him, keep it up!
Women almost never willingly birth 4 kids in the span of 6 years without very strong outside influence. My guess here would be religion based on age (first kid at ~24).
Either that or there's multiple multiple births.
If their religion demands they have so many kids so quickly it's unlikely he helps out with the childrearing activities and leaves it to his wife, I'm which case his life is probably not very different than a childless man.
Children require a lot of time. I only have a single one, and I am already struggling with no time to do anything. I admit I am not the best at time management.
With 4 children ... I can't even conceive how that would be. I would probably love them to death but would consider escaping into the wildness every night.
I think it's the American Reality, if you're extremely fortunate. The American Dream was to be able to comfortably support a family on one income with a high school diploma.
Eh, everyone does what they want for themselves and a lot of weird dynamics work out for people.
However here, not knowing any party, from absolutely fly-over perspective feels like (marital) tragedy waiting to happen.
Young (30), working asses off either at work or with 4 young kids, only one person providing, lack of intimacy and something that could be called weekly report instead of partner communicating.
Even this piece feels forced. Maybe it’s me but exposing personal relationship strategy feels like boasting about win, and when relationships becomes a field for wins it doesn’t bode well.
I still don’t know them and know nada, that might work perfectly well, but that’s definitely not something I’d go with for general life advice.
I was writing (almost) daily email when I and my wife were in long distance relationship during the time my wife studied for her master degree. It happened just in the early days of our marriage. It was the day before WhatsApp has video call feature and long time before zoom. The small daily email quite helping us to form the bonding. Couple o lf years ago I dumped the email into this blog http://www.dearwifey.com/.
I don't know about daily notes, anything that's daily kind of loses its impact. But leaving surprise love notes for my wife, spontaneously, a few times a year is wonderful and something I highly recommend. Get some post-its and a sharpie, hide them someplace unexpected.
disagree, when it comes to a relationship some things turn into rituals that are helpful. what the author is doing is more reflection than just paying attention to their partner. daily reflection is very healthy, whether you do it for yourself or you share it doesn't matter. but it doesn't lose its impact.
Great read, I am stealing this concept and implementing it in someway. People are lost here in details, obviously the central point of this article is how to stay on top of communication with your spouse with busy lifestyle. It doesn’t have to be notes, may be you can go for daily walks etc. Point is to not let relationship become stale and boring that after 20-40 years of marriage you may not know much of how life went. May be some people do not want to be very involved with wife and just marry to have kids. Either way points in this articles are great, thanks for sharing.
Author here - I added an addendum to the end of the article. I write notes in a notes app (I use notion, but you can use whatever). Then I usually text it to her (though email would work fine). I keep it very simple, and I type a lot faster than I write by hand.
Reminds me of the habit we started in Marriage Encounter 20+ years ago. Same idea - communication. ME is Christian-based, and we have fallen away from that in recent years, but the concept was sound. The daily notes went a long way to improving communication and intimacy. This post prompts me to pick it up again.
My wife will point out in the evenings if I didn't text her much during the day, or even send me a message some point during the day asking if I'm alright. These days are few and far between, usually just meeting heavy days or when I really get sucked into a time-sensitive problem.
Yeah, people act like this is uniquely weird, but it's quite similar to the sms / IM that many of us do every day. It's just all in one message as opposed to broken up, and it's more intentional.
i am so obsessed with writing notes. like, i literally document everything. like everything.
it's not like writing diary at end of the day. it's like taking notes you are going through.
i am so obsessed, i try to reach out for my mobiles as fast as possible something happen.
it's like, i am writing what i am thinking...
and it's only for one reason for my future partner, that's all. i want to share everything with her. no matter what...
i know it's so much she can't even read everything.
also, one i meet her, these notes will be redirected towards her, so kind of no notes, what better that direct convo with her even with messages.... :)
I agree that this level of communication should be met in a relationship, but I feel like the form is possibly an area for improvement. Talking face to face being preferable, and texting or calling if not.
Physical notes are fine but it feels less natural.
they are explicitly stating that writing those notes allows them to talk more because they can move the transactional stuff out of the way and use their face to face time for more enjoyable topics.
The underlying value here seems to be that good communication is absolutely essential. The kind of person who goes into SEO blogging professionally is likely a very comfortable writer. It may be that one person is better able to express themselves in a written form, and one person is better able to express themselves orally. It sounds like this isn't really about the ceremony of the note - they're handling household logistics – so much as putting the effort into communicating, so I could see that being best done by one person as writing, and by the other spoken.
find some female friends first. and i specifically don't mean try to just date women. friendship without expecting to get married is a better startingpoint.
online dating can work, but only if both partners are open to a serious conversation of your respective expectations from a relationship. or of you both accept that building a relationship takes time to get to know each other.
Having recently found a partner, I never want to go through the search / date / getting known each other process ever again. If you did not get to known someone from young age, the dating culture gets increasingly worse
Don’t waste your time reading comments. Each pontification is shittier than the other. People on HN can be extremely stupid sometimes.
Note to author: please for fuck sake, stop with the false click bait promises. “I wrote a note every day” … then … “Ok, that’s a lie; it’s on weekdays and not everyday”… what the hell? You do you you’re writing and not speaking right? ie. go back and edit your text if you’ve lied, otherwise it’s just clickbait.
Imagine how expressing daily gratitude might change who you are.
If you say things enough, you come to believe in them and act to make them true. Even if you wrote such notes every day, and never gave them to your partner, the act of writing them changes you. Perhaps, even, into a better partner.
cleandreams|3 years ago
I think this is great advice. The key is being genuine and appreciative. Take care of your neediness in other ways. If you don't know how to listen, writing lots of notes can be just another way of monopolizing the conversation. Use the note as a way to maintain the intimacy you already have.
Ps my marriage lasted happily for 37 years until the untimely death of my beloved wife.
safety1st|3 years ago
The article is certainly well-meaning but it has a bit of a "one weird trick" feel to it. It's written by a 30 year old man who has done something to improve his marriage which is great. It's anyone's guess what kind of article he's going to write when he's 60. He's on a good track, he's learned that regular communication is almost always a win, my own $0.02 is that if there's any one secret weapon, it's that.
But there are also relationships and people where there's nothing that will work, someone is just a rotten apple, or maybe the trust is irreparably damaged. I've had partners who were such supportive, caring human beings that I felt humbled - a little ashamed of my own selfishness by comparison. But I've also had partners who were clearly in it for themselves, seeing what they could milk out of me, and no amount of communication was going to change that. For the latter there was no strategy that was going to fix it - the only right path was to end it and move on.
NetOpWibby|3 years ago
This year will be my third married and my 10th being in a relationship with my wife. It’s been a tumultuous journey at times because of lack of communication.
In lieu of notes like OP mentioned, my wife and I just check in with each other every morning. And, throughout the day. She’s naturally thoughtful while I’m mostly focused on myself. We had a talk a few months ago and it was revealed that my self-centeredness was a defense mechanism I haven’t needed to deploy for at least a decade.
I could go on and on so I’ll just stop here and co-sign once more; communicate with your spouse. And then do it even more than that.
carom|3 years ago
jordanmoconnor|3 years ago
simonebrunozzi|3 years ago
I have been married for ~10 years. Ups and downs, but mostly happy to have chosen her. And hoping to get to 37, and past that, and live a long life together. I really hope that.
2000UltraDeluxe|3 years ago
bergenty|3 years ago
elevenones|3 years ago
lotusw0w|3 years ago
mamoriamohit|3 years ago
Gestures like these amplify whatever the relationship there is to start with.
If there's a lot of love, they amplify it.
If there's a lot of lack of commitment, they amplify it.
They do not change lack of commitment into love magically.
Sorry for being the party pooper. I understand where the OP is coming from and I truly respect that. Just wanted to add a bit of more context.
funklute|3 years ago
I think you're missing some perspective here. You make it sound like you were the one really trying, and your partner is the one who was weird for not "getting it".
I would honestly be pretty freaked out if my partner wrote me daily poems for 400 days. It would come off as very needy and obsessive, and if it continued after me bringing it up, I could see it as a reason to break things off.
Of course some people might really like daily poems. But from what you wrote, it sounds a little like you've failed to read the room, and are now blaming others for that.
smt88|3 years ago
I'm sure this was a painful lesson to learn, but I hope you took the right thing away from it.
No healthy relationship is going to include 400 daily poems. It makes it seem like the subject of the poems is being put on a pedestal and idealized, not perceived as a real person with flaws.
It comes across as obsessive and, perhaps, insincere -- how can someone have 400 poems' worth of feelings for someone they've known for less than 2 years? And if they don't have those sincere feelings, what are they trying to accomplish?
Read a little bit about "love bombing" (not because I think you love-bombed anyone, but because it might help you understand how the recipient of this behavior might feel about it).
nlnn|3 years ago
She used to love baking, and would bring round cakes/pastries/bread for us all the time.
It was really nice at first, but also made us feel very awkward/bad that we didn't reciprocate (neither of us really cook much), even though we'd never asked for the cakes.
Eventually we had to ask her to stop, since we just didn't want to eat that much unhealthy food. She took it as a bit of an insult, and ended up being a lot colder to us after that.
It was a shame, but I'm not sure what else we could have done - she was giving us something unasked for (which we felt burdened by, even though she said she never expected anything in return), and got upset when we asked her to stop.
gexla|3 years ago
> Though, I’ve set that expectation, and she holds me accountable to it, so I do it very often.
This is a shared ritual, which I feel is powerful in any type of relationship. You have rituals at work and with your friends. These rituals are an ingredient in the glue which give relationships meaning.
They need that shared sense of importance to work though. Other parts of the relationship should be healthy. Good communication is a must. Did she tell you that the notes made her feel guilty during this 400 day stretch? If not, then maybe communication was off.
xupybd|3 years ago
Some years later I found my wife and she responds very differently. She would love a note every day. Any attention I give her is welcomed.
I hope things work out for you.
elmolino89|3 years ago
While there may be some people like you enjoying maxed up romantic relationships I would run away in no time from a partner just trying to hard. Imagine getting home everyday to be greeted with a "gift of a day", 10 bullet points in refined calligraphy how much he/she loves me, new scent, yet another laborious make up etc.
Most of us will never be able to match that, be it because of no time/energy or a simple "let me rest after work, read a book/go for a walk". Relationship imho is not an attempt to create a Siamese twins in a mental space. Satisfy the needs of your partner, top it with extra stuff, but do not try to kill it drowning him/her in a waterfall of attention, gifts, questions about everything, etc.
InitialLastName|3 years ago
If you have an issue with your communication to your partner (either in not producing it consistently or not feeling that it's received consistently), changing it up to something you can generate (and/or your partner can receive in the intended spirit), building a habit that changes up your communication can help. On the other hand, if that habit makes your partner feel inundated, overwhelmed, or drowns out their communication to you, it can make things worse.
simonswords82|3 years ago
This isn't really context it's more a subjective and singular viewpoint from somebody who's relationship failed and perhaps was always going to fail regardless of the poems.
Not trying to be horrible here...just pointing out that this is not context.
TheCowboy|3 years ago
I don't want to dunk on the act of writing poems which is perfectly fine, but that's the creation of art. If you look at how he structures his communication, there are active day-to-day issues/problems being addressed that if left unresolved prevent the appreciation of something like a poem.
And as everyone else said, sometimes relationships don't work out and you did your best.
unknown|3 years ago
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mullikine|3 years ago
ok_dad|3 years ago
mihaaly|3 years ago
And yes, 400 could easily slip into the category of demonstration, that may be bothersome for the receiving end.
Pure kind words in natural form may be better.
oxplot|3 years ago
em-bee|3 years ago
User23|3 years ago
tlarkworthy|3 years ago
jordanmoconnor|3 years ago
yowlingcat|3 years ago
sleepydog|3 years ago
jenniferhl3|3 years ago
thn-gap|3 years ago
insightcheck|3 years ago
"Here’s a general outline of what I write:
"Gratitude (for her, her hard work, her amazing looks, etc.)
"What I’m working on today.
"What I’m working towards (goals, deadlines, etc.)
"Anything I’m excited about.
"Anything that’s bothering me (stress, anxiety, pessimism, etc.)
"Ideas that I have (parenting, fixing the home, work related, etc.)
"Transactional stuff (finances, things I need to take care of, stuff I need to remember, etc.)
"Questions (are there any events coming up, are we doing a date night this week, etc.)
"Gratitude (for the life we have, the things we have, the time we have, the kids we have, etc.)
"I don’t write every section every day, but those are the general categories I usually fall into. The note usually takes me just shy of a half-hour if I’m not distracted."
The notes are quite thoughtful: many of these points sound sweet, and several of the prompts could still work for people who aren't in a relationship. The appreciation shown, and the self-reflection, likely both strengthen the relationship.
em-bee|3 years ago
ram_rar|3 years ago
xupybd|3 years ago
If writing a note each day is too much work for you, then the daily sacrifices of being in a loving marriage may be too much for you. If that is the case you might want to think about what you're giving up and why. If you are happy with the exchange then great but I think many don't know how great it can be.
throwaway892238|3 years ago
But it turns out that marriage is really just a partnership and relationship, and all different kinds of people have different styles and interpretations of what that is and how it works for them. Some people need a lot of passion, some people need a lot of stability, some may need both, or neither.
But there is definitely something to the notion that good relationships don't come easy. People are all flawed in different ways, and sometimes people need help to work through those flaws in order to have successful relationships. Plus, a marriage may involve some long term expensive investments, like a mortgage, pets, children. So "saving your marriage" might actually be quite a rational and emotionally intelligent act, if all partners are amenable to it. Best-case scenario: you end up with a long-term loving partnership and a wonderful life; worst-case, you don't. Seems like it's worth saving?
V-eHGsd_|3 years ago
like in karate kid, "wax on, wax off" is not about the wax.
but, you're right, marriage isn't for everyone. but i also don't think TFA is trying to convince everyone to get married.
bentona|3 years ago
swatcoder|3 years ago
The person you’d most love to raise a family with (or run a fishing boat with, or whatever), isn’t necessarily the “easy” partner whose super cozy and gets you all the time and never needs you to make a special effort beyond what comes naturally.
But at some point, if it’s what you want to do, you pick a partner for what’s important to you and make good on that choice. Depending on who you are and who you picked, that latter bit of “making good” might benefit from a few contrived gestures and rituals that wouldn’t have been necessary in some other “easy” relationship. But that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong relationship or an unhealthy relationship, it’s just your relationship; and if those things make it better, why wouldn’t you do them?
haliskerbas|3 years ago
I want to work to not have to work anymore. I can’t think about a partner because I’m too dead from work to give someone else the commitment they might deserve. Don’t want kids that sounds like work. Nothing is wrong with me just want to be able to relax without commitment.
Gatsky|3 years ago
I see quite a lot of elderly people with health problems. The ones that are completely alone… it’s a pretty wretched existence, frankly. That’s the reality. Not to say all marriages are great obviously, but often even an ex-husband is better than no husband at all.
lbrito|3 years ago
For quite a long time this was a very obvious and common sense statement. That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage, for example.
Things changed only very recently.
namecheapTA|3 years ago
tbossanova|3 years ago
ars|3 years ago
It doesn't have to work for everyone to be useful.
Also, I feel like far too many people have "holywood" views on what marriage is.
smegma2|3 years ago
draw_down|3 years ago
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lbrito|3 years ago
>there’s not a lot of time for communication with my wife. We’re on the go from sun-up to sun-down, and at the end of the day we drop into bed exhausted to get just enough sleep for the next day.
Oh boy. That sounds awful.
Rather than trying to work around that busyness, personally I would go out of my way to just not have that. Maybe I'm naive, but I want to be continuously moving towards being less busy and having more time for my family. Actual time, disposable time. Not time-compressed, high-information-density notes.
Of course, to each their own.
_carbyau_|3 years ago
However I suspect this is less about time management and more about communication styles: this person is a writer. They communicate better when writing.
dkdbejwi383|3 years ago
spicyusername|3 years ago
Being a good husband or father is not something that is a given. This is especially true in the asymmetric situation where one parent stays at home. Good for you for finding meaningful ways to be there for your partner and sharing it.
Sharing our experiences for what works helps us all be better! If this post even helps one other dad be a better father and husband, the world is immeasurably improved.
jordanmoconnor|3 years ago
0x008|3 years ago
Looks more like a symptom of fatigue or emotional discomfort to me if you don’t want to talk to your spouse. I would start looking Into that before I would fire off random text book romantic gestures to “save my marriage”.
swatcoder|3 years ago
For people raising kids together, the relationship can often become dominated by the practical partnership of family-rearing because it’s so consuming. You do that parenting thing all the time and you love your partner for what they add to it and that feels like plenty. That project becomes so fundamental and sufficient that a lot of other parts of the relationship can quietly fade even while the relationship as a whole is very strong.
Consciously investing in sharing (or romance, or sex, or travel, or career encouragement, or business partnership, or whatever) can help revive and sustain the multidimensionality of the relationship, and keep it strong and richly satisfying as various other parts wax and wane.
Of course, you can also just have a great relationship that rides a “no (conscious) effort” vibe and it can be a long and exciting and rich relationship too. It’s not like there are rules.
There’s just no reason to question the OP’s relationship just on the grounds of them choosing to put in some extra effort.
irrational|3 years ago
em-bee|3 years ago
in that case, doing something to break out of that and increase communication again sounds like the right step.
szundi|3 years ago
I think this is great, Jordan found something new and novel to reconnect and it worked. Who cares what it is if it worked. Shows affections.
People are different, what makes she happy would be weird for your spouse maybe.
I like it.
newshorts|3 years ago
highwind|3 years ago
colordrops|3 years ago
chinupbuttercup|3 years ago
jordanmoconnor|3 years ago
the_gipsy|3 years ago
Sounds like hell; is this the American Dream?
insightcheck|3 years ago
That sounds like a great life to me. Not a lot of people get the opportunity, and not very many people can pull it off. I'm sure life will be more relaxed when the kids leave the home after become adults, too.
erfgh|3 years ago
There is an ancient Greek saying: Not working is the root of all evil.
newshorts|3 years ago
We (family with two kids under the age of 4) just moved to Texas, been in there ER once, urgent care twice, had stomach flu, ear infection, viral rash, a flat tire, water damage in the house we bought resulting in lots of money flying out the window and a scramble to find temp housing.
All in the past two weeks.
It’s pure hell to the point you laugh instead of cry.
For example, yesterday our kids got into daycare which meant the only thing my wife and I had to do was work. We could finally get a few hours of focus. Not thirty minutes into work the house cleaners I had forgotten about showed up to start cleaning.
Sometimes life seems nonstop.
But when my three year old gives me a kiss on the cheek or my one year old just wanted me to hold him, my world stops for just a moment and I realize how lucky we’ve been to even get to this point.
I guess I’m happy in hell.
benhoyt|3 years ago
I do think it's kinda weird to write his wife a daily note -- presumably it takes him 15-30 minutes to write the note. Why not spend that time talking face-to-face with her instead? For me and my wife (I'm in a similar stage of life) we cherish that ~30 minutes before bed to have a cup of tea, regroup, chat about the kind of things he writes in his note, and so on.
Though he did say that writing the notes has helped their relationship, and they now "talk more than ever (weird, right?)". So if it's working for him, keep it up!
jimbob45|3 years ago
throw03172019|3 years ago
astura|3 years ago
Either that or there's multiple multiple births.
If their religion demands they have so many kids so quickly it's unlikely he helps out with the childrearing activities and leaves it to his wife, I'm which case his life is probably not very different than a childless man.
otikik|3 years ago
With 4 children ... I can't even conceive how that would be. I would probably love them to death but would consider escaping into the wildness every night.
cjohnson318|3 years ago
spoonjim|3 years ago
watwut|3 years ago
barry-cotter|3 years ago
asda_|3 years ago
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RektBoy|3 years ago
xlii|3 years ago
However here, not knowing any party, from absolutely fly-over perspective feels like (marital) tragedy waiting to happen.
Young (30), working asses off either at work or with 4 young kids, only one person providing, lack of intimacy and something that could be called weekly report instead of partner communicating.
Even this piece feels forced. Maybe it’s me but exposing personal relationship strategy feels like boasting about win, and when relationships becomes a field for wins it doesn’t bode well.
I still don’t know them and know nada, that might work perfectly well, but that’s definitely not something I’d go with for general life advice.
lamida|3 years ago
rock_artist|3 years ago
Yet, what I've really missed is the spouse feedback.
The writing focused on "his" expectations and "his" conclusions.
I'm not underestimating this.
Though it would be nice to write this as a duo or share a separate post by your spouse.
jordanmoconnor|3 years ago
jurassic|3 years ago
em-bee|3 years ago
cryptozeus|3 years ago
seba_dos1|3 years ago
Combining "morning" and "fresh" in one sentence sounds like an oxymoron to me.
otikik|3 years ago
Are we talking about a post-it note? Are the notes in a physical notebook? Is this done via some sort of mobile app? On a WhatsApp message, perhaps?
I know it will be different for everyone, probably, but I think it is important to know one that is already working for someone.
jordanmoconnor|3 years ago
chkaloon|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
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de6u99er|3 years ago
ryanmercer|3 years ago
jollyllama|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
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llaolleh|3 years ago
A newsletter for one could sound exciting.
wayanon|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
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jordanmoconnor|3 years ago
duckydude20|3 years ago
i am waiting so much........
plaguepilled|3 years ago
Physical notes are fine but it feels less natural.
em-bee|3 years ago
eric4smith|3 years ago
Also, “absence makes the heart grow fonder” is a real thing.
So very bad advice if it’s just one way. That’s actually si*p behavior.
Very good advice if it’s symmetrical.
kixiQu|3 years ago
mullikine|3 years ago
aas1957|3 years ago
arkades|3 years ago
unknown|3 years ago
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unknown|3 years ago
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NooZ|3 years ago
chmod600|3 years ago
xchip|3 years ago
basicplus2|3 years ago
em-bee|3 years ago
start here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31713720 and maybe here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29100862
online dating can work, but only if both partners are open to a serious conversation of your respective expectations from a relationship. or of you both accept that building a relationship takes time to get to know each other.
Cloudef|3 years ago
yessirwhatever|3 years ago
Note to author: please for fuck sake, stop with the false click bait promises. “I wrote a note every day” … then … “Ok, that’s a lie; it’s on weekdays and not everyday”… what the hell? You do you you’re writing and not speaking right? ie. go back and edit your text if you’ve lied, otherwise it’s just clickbait.
ps901|3 years ago
kimsabiz|3 years ago
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sbate1987|3 years ago
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uhtred|3 years ago
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RektBoy|3 years ago
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clircle|3 years ago
em-bee|3 years ago
TheCowboy|3 years ago
alexashka|3 years ago
slowmovintarget|3 years ago
If you say things enough, you come to believe in them and act to make them true. Even if you wrote such notes every day, and never gave them to your partner, the act of writing them changes you. Perhaps, even, into a better partner.
ephaeton|3 years ago