FWIW we have a 2018 Model 3 and a 2022 Model Y and both have had very minor or no manufacturer issues. Both have never needed anything other than minor, at home service from Tesla (mostly tire swaps).
> since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer
That is just an absurd statement. AlexNet came out in 2012 and ResNet in 2015 but somehow Tesla had something "close" to the current FSD in 2014? They're heavily using Transformers now which came out in 2017. They have demonstrated leaps in performance since the first version of FSD Beta two years ago.
These are improving at an astonishing rate, like a Web app rather than a car. Yes, this means the first ones were so bad they really shouldn’t have been shipped. But the newer models (of Y especially, X hasn’t been redesigned) are really a different world.
What are you talking about? I watch FSD progress, and it's clearly getting closer to human level driving. Just go on YouTube and compare FSD from two years ago to the latest. It's night and day. Yes, it still makes mistakes. Humans make mistakes all the time while driving.
As for build quality, we haven't had any major problems with our Model 3. It's a great car.
Tesla has a media problem, where every little problem gets reported as if it's systemic and unfixable.
I recently rented a 2022 Model 3 from Hertz for 9 days. It didn't have the FSD option available, but it did have the preview of what the system would see. Based on that alone, I was alternately impressed and terrified of what the FSD experience would be like. It was mostly accurate in showing other vehicles, but some of their trajectories when turning in front of me looked like a really bad video game with weird orientations and jumpiness. People crossing the road were sometimes picked up and sometimes not. It showed the traffic lights, but didn't display any understanding of turn lane traffic lights. I had the warning for following too close enabled, and it mostly worked but it got confused going through a parking lot once. If this is meant as an advertisement for FSD, I'm not convinced.
Autopilot has basically been shelved for the past 2 years as they've been working on FSD, which will replace the current AP stack. Go have a look on Youtube, there are thousands of videos where you can see the visualizations, it's night and day.
What's the rationale for renting an EV? Isn't it more troublesome because you probably won't have a charger in whatever place your staying, so you can't charge it overnight?
The Autopilot visualization is different than the FSD visualization, and the FSD UI shows significantly more detail. Go search YouTube for some FSD videos and you’ll see what it looks like.
It was advertised by Tesla and as a Level 5 system. However, given that never happened, it is now known as 'Fools Self Driving' since not only it doesn't work, requires constant full assistance and attention of the driver behind the wheel at all times, it is been admittedly a Level 2 system who's creator gives the endless promises of updates in order to fool the customer that it will 'eventually' be 'Full Self Driving'.
So Tesla can continue to raises prices on this false promise and customers will keep buying, subscribing on the idea that they are hoping that it will be fully self driving, which is the typical pied piper selling snake oil scam.
I wouldn’t have an issue with this if the upgrade went with the car, but the idea that it turns back off when the person whose driveway it lives in changes is too close to IAPs for me.
If it has an ongoing cost for Tesla, I’m happy to pay for a subscription and perhaps an activation fee. If it’s built-in to the vehicle and requires a configuration for how I like to drive, I’d love to pay an expensive, one-time setup fee to configure my specific vehicle and perhaps a (small) upgrade fee when major versions are released.
But this idea that Tesla wants to have the best of both worlds (massive fees that reoccur) while I get the worst of both worlds (massive fees for a value that I can’t sell/transfer) is one of the two big reasons I can’t see getting a Tesla (even though I would love to).
Musk once argued that once full self-driving works, it would be more profitable for Tesla to use these cars for an own taxi service than it would be to sell them to customers. They plan to raise the price even more the closer they (claim to) get to their goal.
When I buy my next Tesla wouldn’t pay for it though.
The thing that would make it worth buying at this price is when I can send the car 200 miles away to like go pick up my parents or something. Anything short of not being in the car though is just a party trick.
"It's all hype," said Steven E. Shladover, a retired research engineer at the University of California, Berkeley who has been involved in efforts to create autonomous driving for 45 years. "The technology does not exist to do what he is claiming. He doesn't have it and neither does anybody else."
---
It's not close to working at all. Musk must know it.
I used to think FSD without lidar was just too far away (a decade+), but I've been checking every now and then of FSD beta progress for a couple of years now, and at the current rate of progress I changed my mind and I believe that in 2 or 3 years, and with one more hardware upgrade, it will be done.
Their latest 10.69 FSD (released yesterday) is quite impressive already.
Musk must be getting pretty desperate as his lawyers tell him he is going to have to follow through on the Twitter acquisition and his financial analysts are predicting the market will not be where he was hoping when it happens.
This is ultimately why I believe Elon Musk isn't the right guy to lead Tesla anymore and hasn't been for a while.
Car companies live and die by attracting new customers but also by bringing back existing customers. Lots of car brands bend over backwards to keep you coming back. When you fail to deliver what you've promised or significantly raise prices without delivering value in return, you're not building a loyal customer base.
Between this kind of thing and the way Tesla handles service, it's very clear they don't really give a damn about you as a customer after you've handed over your money.
This is my take and why I’ve never owned one. I’m in process of buying 2 new “luxury” cars for our family and Tesla’s not even in the realm of consideration.
Unsurprisingly and once again, the Fools Self Driving (FSD) scam raises prices on their customers towards a product that is beyond broken and doesn't work.
It is gotten so bad that even the noble and devoted Telsa fans would do anything to defend this contraption, even if it meant risking the lives of their own children, they will still do it for Twitter points, or for their lord and saviour techno-king Elon to notice them.
Who is going to finally tell the Tesla FSD fans that the piped piper (Elon) has repeatedly over promised and scammed his own fans and customers using FSD to the same tune?
[+] [-] washbrain|3 years ago|reply
Between the low reliability, low build quality, and scammy practices, Tesla has turned their lead into a vulnerability.
Once other manufacturers catch up to the battery range, Tesla will have their lunch eaten.
And I say this as someone who has owned a Tesla for over 8 years.
[+] [-] epgui|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darknavi|3 years ago|reply
FWIW we have a 2018 Model 3 and a 2022 Model Y and both have had very minor or no manufacturer issues. Both have never needed anything other than minor, at home service from Tesla (mostly tire swaps).
[+] [-] martindbp|3 years ago|reply
That is just an absurd statement. AlexNet came out in 2012 and ResNet in 2015 but somehow Tesla had something "close" to the current FSD in 2014? They're heavily using Transformers now which came out in 2017. They have demonstrated leaps in performance since the first version of FSD Beta two years ago.
[+] [-] spoonjim|3 years ago|reply
These are improving at an astonishing rate, like a Web app rather than a car. Yes, this means the first ones were so bad they really shouldn’t have been shipped. But the newer models (of Y especially, X hasn’t been redesigned) are really a different world.
[+] [-] princevegeta89|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bufferoverflow|3 years ago|reply
As for build quality, we haven't had any major problems with our Model 3. It's a great car.
Tesla has a media problem, where every little problem gets reported as if it's systemic and unfixable.
[+] [-] s1mon|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] martindbp|3 years ago|reply
To save you the click, here's one released today with the latest version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCTssX2VdKA
[+] [-] redox99|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IMcD23|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] allears|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darknavi|3 years ago|reply
We really need competition in this space (FSD) if we want prices to go down.
[+] [-] Ninjinka|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mthld|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] washbrain|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rvz|3 years ago|reply
But in reality: 'Fools Self Driving'
It was advertised by Tesla and as a Level 5 system. However, given that never happened, it is now known as 'Fools Self Driving' since not only it doesn't work, requires constant full assistance and attention of the driver behind the wheel at all times, it is been admittedly a Level 2 system who's creator gives the endless promises of updates in order to fool the customer that it will 'eventually' be 'Full Self Driving'.
So Tesla can continue to raises prices on this false promise and customers will keep buying, subscribing on the idea that they are hoping that it will be fully self driving, which is the typical pied piper selling snake oil scam.
[+] [-] darknavi|3 years ago|reply
(I own FSD on two cars because I like toys)
[+] [-] Doctor_Fegg|3 years ago|reply
https://www.ternbicycles.com/en/bikes/472/gsd
[+] [-] Ninjinka|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JadoJodo|3 years ago|reply
If it has an ongoing cost for Tesla, I’m happy to pay for a subscription and perhaps an activation fee. If it’s built-in to the vehicle and requires a configuration for how I like to drive, I’d love to pay an expensive, one-time setup fee to configure my specific vehicle and perhaps a (small) upgrade fee when major versions are released.
But this idea that Tesla wants to have the best of both worlds (massive fees that reoccur) while I get the worst of both worlds (massive fees for a value that I can’t sell/transfer) is one of the two big reasons I can’t see getting a Tesla (even though I would love to).
[+] [-] Ekaros|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bin_bash|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _Microft|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] janmo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brianwawok|3 years ago|reply
When I buy my next Tesla wouldn’t pay for it though.
The thing that would make it worth buying at this price is when I can send the car 200 miles away to like go pick up my parents or something. Anything short of not being in the car though is just a party trick.
[+] [-] jillesvangurp|3 years ago|reply
And people still buy it because it's the best money can buy right now. It's not perfect but it's there and getting better with every release.
[+] [-] wopwops|3 years ago|reply
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-tesla-self-dr...
"It's all hype," said Steven E. Shladover, a retired research engineer at the University of California, Berkeley who has been involved in efforts to create autonomous driving for 45 years. "The technology does not exist to do what he is claiming. He doesn't have it and neither does anybody else."
---
It's not close to working at all. Musk must know it.
[+] [-] redox99|3 years ago|reply
Their latest 10.69 FSD (released yesterday) is quite impressive already.
[+] [-] MichaelRazum|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] encryptluks2|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zcw100|3 years ago|reply
The guy just got a free $7500 courtesy of the tax payer for every car he sells.
[+] [-] MichaelRazum|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davewritescode|3 years ago|reply
Car companies live and die by attracting new customers but also by bringing back existing customers. Lots of car brands bend over backwards to keep you coming back. When you fail to deliver what you've promised or significantly raise prices without delivering value in return, you're not building a loyal customer base.
Between this kind of thing and the way Tesla handles service, it's very clear they don't really give a damn about you as a customer after you've handed over your money.
[+] [-] conductr|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Rackedup|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rvz|3 years ago|reply
It is gotten so bad that even the noble and devoted Telsa fans would do anything to defend this contraption, even if it meant risking the lives of their own children, they will still do it for Twitter points, or for their lord and saviour techno-king Elon to notice them.
Who is going to finally tell the Tesla FSD fans that the piped piper (Elon) has repeatedly over promised and scammed his own fans and customers using FSD to the same tune?