[washbrain]

It's shocking to me that anyone would pay for this. Tesla has been selling fsd since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer.

Between the low reliability, low build quality, and scammy practices, Tesla has turned their lead into a vulnerability.

Once other manufacturers catch up to the battery range, Tesla will have their lunch eaten.

And I say this as someone who has owned a Tesla for over 8 years.

[epgui]

It would seem the market (and more current engineering and design reviews) disagrees with you!

[mlyle]

There are many people who have bought FSD from Tesla, and have had their car reach end of life without ever getting to enjoy FSD.

It's possible after being "less than a year away" for... a decade... that it may be less than a year away now. But it looks like a bit of skepticism has been earned.

[ghostpepper]

It's shocking to me that people are willing to pay to be beta testers for Tesla's entirely-from-scratch manufacturing process and smartphone-with-wheels style of car experience but it doesn't matter what I think - that's the beauty of capitalism.

[quantified]

The market considered NFTs highly valuable too, until it didn't.

[darknavi]

> Between the low reliability, low build quality

FWIW we have a 2018 Model 3 and a 2022 Model Y and both have had very minor or no manufacturer issues. Both have never needed anything other than minor, at home service from Tesla (mostly tire swaps).

[ohgodplsno]

A single example does not make for a general rule. Aside from the fact that thank fucking god a less than 1 year old car and a less than 4 year old car should not have some manufacturer issues, Tesla still has a dreadful 226PP100 (as in, each Tesla tested had on average 2.6 problems in a single year), even worse than the industry average (which includes some truly terrible constructors).

[martindbp]

> since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer

That is just an absurd statement. AlexNet came out in 2012 and ResNet in 2015 but somehow Tesla had something "close" to the current FSD in 2014? They're heavily using Transformers now which came out in 2017. They have demonstrated leaps in performance since the first version of FSD Beta two years ago.

[rvz]

> That is just an absurd statement.

No it isn't. It is also not early days either and we have given FSD enough time to meet the claims of achieving Level 5 with those strong and 'confident' deadlines even set by Musk himself, which he knew he couldn't meet, but the gullible customers and fans rushed in and fell for it anyway.

Not only they have all been missed, this year, Tesla finally admitted that it was Level 2 and it still doesn't work in the most dangerous time to drive which is at night. FSD (Fools Self Driving) is no where near close in the nearly ten years it has existed.

This is an obvious over-promising of a broken product with the pied-piper selling it to their fans scam.

[washbrain]

Yeah? It was a toy then, and it's a toy now.

Yes, it's a much better toy, but it's still a toy.

[spoonjim]

> low reliability, low build quality

These are improving at an astonishing rate, like a Web app rather than a car. Yes, this means the first ones were so bad they really shouldn’t have been shipped. But the newer models (of Y especially, X hasn’t been redesigned) are really a different world.

[ohgodplsno]

Hot tip, ship fast and break things doesn't work when you're talking about putting out a 2 ton, gigantic battery out in the world that is expected to last for over 20 years. This is a gigantic waste. Any other company would have been crucified for putting out such a shit car, and the only reason Tesla survived it is because they had funny meme man to do damage control.

[ghostpepper]

Have they fixed the panel gaps and paint issues?

[princevegeta89]

Scammy practices?

[cma]

Solar shingle presentation? Autonomy investor day?

[bufferoverflow]

What are you talking about? I watch FSD progress, and it's clearly getting closer to human level driving. Just go on YouTube and compare FSD from two years ago to the latest. It's night and day. Yes, it still makes mistakes. Humans make mistakes all the time while driving.

As for build quality, we haven't had any major problems with our Model 3. It's a great car.

Tesla has a media problem, where every little problem gets reported as if it's systemic and unfixable.

[kaczordon]

The suspension on the model 3 and Y is definitely not luxury. Nor is the interior build quality. I own a model Y and there’s plenty of creaks and noises in it that other car models don’t have. Also the highway FSD is still ridiculously bad with it’s phantom braking where at 70MPH your car will just slam on the brakes. And highway driving is the easy version that most other manufacturers have now too.

And now it looks like Cruise and Waymo have full self driving in San Francisco which looks amazing. There’s hour long videos of it navigating perfectly and smoothly in a jam packed city. Nothing like the Tesla videos which show it almost slamming into bikes/curbs or just freaking out and stopping in the middle of an intersection.

Has great acceleration though and charging at home is great or on the road with superchargers. But Teslas edge is not as wide anymore.

[klyrs]

Does it work in rain, snow, and/or night? How about country roads and roads without clearly marked lanes or misleading lane lines?

It's like hiring a plumber who can only flush toilets, not install them. Self driving in pristine conditions is a party trick. Until it can do the hard part, it's nowhere near human-level.

[enragedcacti]

YouTube can't provide enough information to make a determination about the reliability of a safety critical system. The video that ends up posted could be the best result of multiple attempts and many of the "testers" use hints like pressing the gas pedal or hitting the turn stalk to give the system more confidence in maneuvers that it's otherwise having trouble with. Further, many users who post bad experiences get negative feedback from their audience and sometimes even delete the video and DMCA people who re-host it.

Beyond the problems with YouTube as evidence, its very clear that Tesla isn't operating a proper safety lifecycle as part of the beta and its not clear that their approach and their current hardware is even capable of solving the remaining problems with FSD. Having already sold the hardware as FSD capable, Tesla has created a problem where the hardware drives the validation process of the system, rather than validation process driving the hardware. This is a fundamentally unsafe approach to safety critical systems.

[davewritescode]

The "media problem" is completely earned by Tesla. You know how you avoid bad press? By consistently under-promising while over-delivering and bending over backwards to keep your customers loyal and happy even after they've handed over their money so that when they need a new car they return to you.

German automakers are a great example of this. Whether it's gas or electric they significantly understate the performance and efficiency of their cars while in the real world they always exceed what they've promised.

[the_mitsuhiko]

Maybe it’s getting closer but a lot of people bought this thing for their own cars, never getting access and some already sold the cars again.

[Geee]

> Tesla has a media problem, where every little problem gets reported as if it's systemic and unfixable.

Similar to Apple, people expect more from them than anyone else. Minor issues on Apple products are always scandals. Remember Antennagate? People were sure that it would sink Apple, because "they don't know how to make antennas". People and media handle Tesla similarly, and minor issues are blown out of proportion.