[atwood22]

> Why are cars and phones giant these days? Is it because nobody wants smaller ones, or because perverse market incentives have distorted offerings in a chase for product growth?

Do you have kids? If you did, you’d know that many people want bigger cars. I drive one of the smallest cars you can buy in the U.S. Now that I have a kid, I’m going to buy a big SUV. Kids require a lot of stuff. Taking them on public transport is a huge pain. Even if you don’t have kids, I’m sure you’ve been annoyed by a stroller on the subway.

[dont__panic]

Those big cars are the kind of "perverse market incentive" I'm talking about.

Why do you need a big car to transport your children? Because:

- you can't walk anywhere useful with your kids (so you must get in a car)

- public transportation is inconvenient or expensive

- biking is dangerous

- the big car makes you feel safer because all of the other cars are big

Why are those things the way that they are? Because people chose to drive cars, live far from useful things in the suburbs, and that eroded the ability to bike or provide useful and affordable public transportation.

I grew up in a car-centric place. The "big SUV" as your only gateway to the outside world is effectively a prison. You can't do things on your own. You don't build a mental map of the world you live in. You don't get to do things outside unless it's in your yard or at some structured activity accessed by car. Why do you think the "teenagers hate the suburbs" trope is so common?

I know raising a kid is difficult, even though I have not raised one myself. I know that they require all kinds of stuff to take out into the world. But somehow in NYC people get around with a single stroller and a backpack with kids, frequently taking public transit.

> Taking them on public transport is a huge pain. Even if you don’t have kids, I’m sure you’ve been annoyed by a stroller on the subway.

Maybe at rush hour. But I largely just appreciate the fact that a parent is trying to raise their kid to walk places and live in the world, instead of isolating them in a car in a suburban hellscape. Again -- perverse incentives have made the world this way. It doesn't have to be this way.

[atwood22]

Sorry, you don't have kids so you just don't get it. I didn't get it either before I had a kid. All of the reasons you listed, bad public transport, dangerous biking, safety, etc. have nothing to do with why I want to buy an SUV. There are just so many items involved with raising a child. Yes, you might be able to take public transit so your kid can see the doctor, as long as you time it to be at an off-peak time, but there are so many other cases where you need a large car. A very basic example: You have a young child in NYC and you want to spend the weekend with your parents who live in Westchester. Without a kid, getting on Metro North with a small duffel bag of clothes would be trivial. With a kid, you need to bring a crib, toys, stroller, diapers, multiple changes of clothes, and maybe even a high table with you. Good luck getting all of that on the train, especially with a screaming kid!

The failure in your reasoning is that you see parents on the train, so you think that's their only mode of transportation. Yes, you can take the kid on the train for certain errands. Other times, however, having a car is 100x more convenient. And that is true everywhere.

[Steltek]

When your kids are just a few years older, you'll really appreciate that they can get themselves to their friends, schools, and other destinations without your car's help.

We didn't use a stroller on the T and instead opted for baby wearing. When they hit 1yo, we used a cargo bike and that still serves us extremely well to this day. In K-5, they bike themselves to school and camps (not alone, still escorted because cars are still present).

[dont__panic]

Thank you for raising your children in a sustainable way that allows them to participate in society instead of being carted around in vehicles. I'm sure US society creates plenty of roadblocks for that lifestyle that waste your time, money, and effort. But I'm sure your children will thank you someday (if they don't already!) for providing such a human environment to grow up in.

[frenchy]

We must have very different kinds of kids. My kids hate the car, it's basically like jail to them, whereas on the bus we can talk and play together. We don't use the bus, but that's because bus service in our area isn't very good.

[atwood22]

The kids may not like the car, but I’m sure they like the lifestyle it affords them.