Go to Privacy.com. Register and give your real credit card. Don't get the $10/month subscription for "real" privacy, unless you really don't want a record of your purchases.
Now when you "subscribe" to WhizBang online, go to Privacy and create a special credit card just for WhizBang. Give WhizBang a fake name and address as well, and don't use your "regular" email. Create some spares on ProtonMail or some other low-friction service.
When WhizBang goes to verify your credit card, your fake name & address are not checked. You can give them whatever you want.
Your purchase will appear on your regular credit card records. If you want Privacy to use a fake seller, you have to pay for that.
When you want to cancel WhizBang, you just close their credit card. They will get a Decline when they go to charge it, and they'll eventually cancel you. You can go through their official cancellation process, if you want to.
To those arguing that legions of lawyers are going to track you down and sue you:
Yes, in many jurisdictions, including the US, canceling your credit card does not change your obligation to pay. (Imagine buying a $10,000 physical product and the seller forgets to charge until the day after delivery, and you've canceled the card. You're not getting out of that.)
However, there is substantial friction in the American legal system. Of course, if they can find you, they will send a threatening form letter from a lawyer. If you're not experienced with the legal system, this seems scary. But: big whoop.
It costs $5k-20k to fully pursue a contractual claim. Nobody does this for small consumer purchases. (They will send you to collections, if they know your identity, though. But if they don't have good ID, they can't even attach to your credit score.)
Nobody is going to send a subpoena for your $15/mo subscription on a dead credit card.
These concerns are all frivolous and irrelevant for 99% of consumer purchases that charge in the tens of dollars per month.
In the American legal system, it is important to distinguish between what is possible versus what is practical. And exploit that difference whenever you can.
One great feature of Privacy.com is that you can use pseudonyms rather than your legal name for making purchases. One "failure" mode I've encountered (twice!) is that if you accidentally reuse an old credit card account with a second service (eg. if you accidentally created a card for "donations" and use it at two different websites, or you create one for Ko-Fi or similar and it gets charged by multiple different "merchants" under the same service), the second transaction will fail. You'll get an email telling you the transaction was declined, but if you don't have email notifications enabled, it can get quite confusing why the payment isn't going through.
I generate free virtual cards with the Capital One Eno chrome browser extension
Works great and you can set a date for it to lock itself after to block charges, they even suggest it as a use case for stopping trials from charging you, etc. It generates a card per website and you can replace it as many times as you want all for free.
it doesn't always work though. Some companies can detect if you're using temporary credit cards and won't let the txn go through. Frustratingly it's often the ones that I would like to use it with the most.
I am curious if the card #s I can get directly from Citi might work but haven't tested it out. Those are a pain to generate compared to privacy.com though.
Chewy does this really well, and follows this same advice.
I get pet food on subscription. Chewy sends me a notice my order is about to ship. I can skip or cancel if I want.
Shopify on the other hand is hostile. I have a small store there I've deprioritized. They have a $9 / mo inactive plan, where they keep your stuff but customers can't buy. If you want to stop paying, they delete all of your stuff & domain: https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/your-account/pause-deacti...
Yeah. Chewy's autoship is pretty nice. We have two cats and we've got the quantities and timing to where just as they're going through the last of their current food, the next shipment arrives.
That and we have a subscription box from Meowbox for them as well. We used to get treats, but they didn't like the majority of them so it's just toys now.
> Some of them will make you literally call them up to cancel.
In France, a new law was just passed to fight against unsubscribing hell, called "3-click unsubscribe". It is due to come in effect at the beginning of 2023.
It basically says that if the business offers an "easy online subscription", then it has to offer an "easy online unsubscription" option. This doesn't apply to companies who only take subscriptions by some other means. However, it does apply to a subscription taken by other means if it's also possible to subscribe online.
The Blink Fitness example is telling in so many ways. It's not just that it's evil in the sense of mischievous, it reveals a sense of entitlement. I think this sense of entitlement to customer money underlies many problems in contemporary commerce.
Gyms are notorious for this. I won’t sign up for a gym membership unless they accept checks or cash. Most accept checks, I’ve found. Could also try a virtual credit card I suppose. Citi offers those with their Visa card.
If you signed a contract for a year with a clause that you could cancel before then if you move to an area without one of their gyms then this seems reasonable.
I've had my own experiences with gyms being hard to cancel. But in principle if I want an easy cancellation then I'll go month to month. If I have a 12 month contract I'm not going to cry if they resist when I want to cancel early...
Many gym’s business models don’t work without subscriptions. Should they simply cease to exist or is it maybe a decent thing that customers subsidize each other?
This makes a ton of sense for B2C contexts, but my gut reaction is that the conversational approach might be too high friction in B2B contexts. To be clear, the friction I'm thinking of is this constant cadence of stealing/borrowing attention.
Perhaps this needs to be thought of as part of a larger communications strategy - who here is part of a SaaS that sends regular 'marketing' emails to existing customers? :)
Maybe the defaults (boiled down, the provided examples appear to be "opt-in" if you're not in, and "opt-out" if you are in) are designed to streamline the process so conversations are ignorable so that's okay?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something! I definitely want to hear stories of this model working in the B2B space.
I got this email for a charge of $50 on K-Mart, 20 years ago! Incredible. There actually still are K-Marts, but the closest one to me is 60 miles away.
Anyhow, they said "it's too late for us to garnish or do anything else with this, but here's how you can clear it up." So no threats.
First of all, I was pretty sure I didn't have a $50 charge with K-Mart 20 years ago, and in any case... 20 years!! They didn't offer any data on what it was. So I sent them all to the Spam folder.
Amazingly, they sent one every day for two months. When I finally looked in the Spam folder, there they all were. They just wouldn't give up.
Finally, I figured out that they were assuming I was someone else with a similar name. I answered the email and said "I'm not him." The emails stopped.
When I was a grad student, my roommate had a name which didn't sound super common, but there were actually at least three grad students with the same first and last name at the same time; and two in the same department (let's call it Underwater Basket Weaving). My roommate (let's call him John A. Smith) kept getting in trouble because of this other person (let's call him John T. Smith). Once was when John T. Smith helped make an Onion-style parody paper that included sexual innuendo from a bunch of professors (including one on my roommate's thesis panel). Another was when John T. Smith ran up some sort of debt and didn't pay it, and the collections agency managed to find my roommate's information. He had a hard time convincing them that yes, there were indeed two John Smiths getting their PhD in Underwater Basket Weaving at the same time, and he was the wrong John Smith.
The blink fitness example has to be the result of a bad business model.
How long can gyms, cable companies, cell providers etc keep customers hostage with cancellation policies like this? I mean it has been forever but c'mon!
If your business doesn't provide value to your customers then you should not milk them like this... you should start providing value or cut your losses and treat them well so they will still hopefully recommend you to a friend that actually needs whatever you are selling.
Maybe there needs to be a webpage called "beforeyousubscribe.com" or something, which has a point system for unsubscription requirements, where people can go look before they subscribe. Right now there's a sort of "market for lemons" effect, where you can't tell when you're subscribing the good guys from the bad guys.
I'm very into this. A while back, I was working on a product that unfortunately folded in the live streaming content creation space, and we wanted to treat our subscriptions like refills, but we really didn't have the language around it like this. Giving users agency on the renewal process rather than hostile subscription practices is a breath of fresh air, and a surefire way I personally would feel more comfortable using a product.
I like how Rinse does this, a laundry service that charges roughly by weight of laundry. They text me if a driver is in my area and they subtract the weight from my account's total. If I don't use it, the excess weight carries over to the next month. It reminds me of how cell phone plans used to 'roll over' unused minutes to the next payment cycle.
This isn’t perfect either. Now they have pre sold weight to you. Will they offer a full refund of unused weight? If so, why did they charge you for it ahead of time instead of a per usage?
They are hoping you have some excess weight you never use and it’s free profit for them
This is the second time it's happened, so I gave up and kept it. I do order from Amazon enough that it matters, I guess. It's scummy as hell, but effective. I'd much prefer a model like the one mentioned in this article.
Yeah, with Amazon, it's always a step during the checkout, with a very small opt-out button. And it often advertizes itself as being more about free shipping than setting up a prime subscription. Pretty easy to miss!
I do quite like their "subscribe and save" system though.
Sign up for the costco-sized packs of stuff you get through, and guess how often you want to receive it. Then once a month it tells you to check - and you see what they're planning on shipping, and can skip stuff you've got and pull forward stuff you're running out of.
Always thought it would be quite nifty if you could make a site like this for third-party services. I might see my 2 audible credits on there, and decide I've got enough, or need more. Or maybe apple could offer a free month - so I might pause my netflix.
Could even combine stuff (free $10 Dominos credit added for each month of Netflix after month 12 etc).
Whole current system of every service having their own UI, is just a pain.
Worked out paying for stuff works better then you can just stick it all on the same card - so why not manage it all from one place as well?
I'm happy to pay the $15/month just to have the capability to have stuff shipped to my door overnight for free. There are months where I don't order anything at all. Compared to rent or food it's a drop in the bucket.
I've had this happen too many times to count. Just delete all payment methods on file in your account settings. Youll get warnings out the wazoo that your benefits are expiring cause they dont have a way to charge you, so if you really want to renew later you can.
This occurred a few years (and wrinkles) ago, and since then, the idea of replenishing has begun to catch on. Although it's still a bit of a novelty and is more common in cities like London, you can now refill your plastic containers rather than throwing them away and buying a brand-new replacement. The circular economy, which is the theory of avoiding waste by keeping things in use for as long as possible, is being developed by a wave of enterprises in this area.
I fix this by using a one-time card number for any subscription or recurring purchase. Citi and Capital One offer them for free (the latter has a much better UI), or a lot of people use Privacy.com. Even a Visa/MC gift card works well if you happen to get one for a rebate or something. It would be great if merchants all abided by #2 and gave notice of impending charges, but ultimately I prefer to shut off the taps on my timeline rather than theirs.
I used this tactic to break up with WSJ. However, I think they technically reserve the right to try to collect fees if you don't cancel through their system.
Another time, I had a service continue to try to bill me monthly for 2 years. I just let it keep saying "your order is about to ship" and "there was a problem with your card". Eventually, they found a way to charge me (I'm really not sure how) and had an order go through, after which I cancelled through an option buried in their website.
From the headline I guessed they were planning to sell tokens, but instead it seems to be a slightly more humane version of subscriptions.
So I will (again?) remind people that there are lots of services that would make a lot more sense to pay for in the form of usage tokens instead of in the form om monthly payments.
But I guess that would mean missing out on sweet sweet revenue from forgetful customers.
[+] [-] UIUC_06|3 years ago|reply
Now when you "subscribe" to WhizBang online, go to Privacy and create a special credit card just for WhizBang. Give WhizBang a fake name and address as well, and don't use your "regular" email. Create some spares on ProtonMail or some other low-friction service.
When WhizBang goes to verify your credit card, your fake name & address are not checked. You can give them whatever you want.
Your purchase will appear on your regular credit card records. If you want Privacy to use a fake seller, you have to pay for that.
When you want to cancel WhizBang, you just close their credit card. They will get a Decline when they go to charge it, and they'll eventually cancel you. You can go through their official cancellation process, if you want to.
This works. It's what I do.
[+] [-] mediaman|3 years ago|reply
Yes, in many jurisdictions, including the US, canceling your credit card does not change your obligation to pay. (Imagine buying a $10,000 physical product and the seller forgets to charge until the day after delivery, and you've canceled the card. You're not getting out of that.)
However, there is substantial friction in the American legal system. Of course, if they can find you, they will send a threatening form letter from a lawyer. If you're not experienced with the legal system, this seems scary. But: big whoop.
It costs $5k-20k to fully pursue a contractual claim. Nobody does this for small consumer purchases. (They will send you to collections, if they know your identity, though. But if they don't have good ID, they can't even attach to your credit score.)
Nobody is going to send a subpoena for your $15/mo subscription on a dead credit card.
These concerns are all frivolous and irrelevant for 99% of consumer purchases that charge in the tens of dollars per month.
In the American legal system, it is important to distinguish between what is possible versus what is practical. And exploit that difference whenever you can.
[+] [-] notimetorelax|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nyanpasu64|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sizzle|3 years ago|reply
Works great and you can set a date for it to lock itself after to block charges, they even suggest it as a use case for stopping trials from charging you, etc. It generates a card per website and you can replace it as many times as you want all for free.
Anyone else using this awesome service?
[+] [-] NetOpWibby|3 years ago|reply
I will continue to do this for businesses that wanna try evil subscription cancellations.
[+] [-] djbusby|3 years ago|reply
However, they make good care to know the real identity of they buyer, so you'll (mostly) be aware you're getting into that hot water.
[+] [-] atmartins|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] b33j0r|3 years ago|reply
I can’t classify this one. Kinda sounds like an IRC wire fraud joke that some kid actually tried.
I stopped pirating stuff as soon as they would sell it to me, but it was because downloading music was a full-time job and I had stuff to do
[+] [-] bin_bash|3 years ago|reply
I am curious if the card #s I can get directly from Citi might work but haven't tested it out. Those are a pain to generate compared to privacy.com though.
[+] [-] ornornor|3 years ago|reply
Would you know if it works with credit cards not from the US?
How does it deal with transactions in other currencies?
[+] [-] novaleaf|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xivzgrev|3 years ago|reply
I get pet food on subscription. Chewy sends me a notice my order is about to ship. I can skip or cancel if I want.
Shopify on the other hand is hostile. I have a small store there I've deprioritized. They have a $9 / mo inactive plan, where they keep your stuff but customers can't buy. If you want to stop paying, they delete all of your stuff & domain: https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/your-account/pause-deacti...
[+] [-] bombcar|3 years ago|reply
You get an email and you remember you wanted to add something, and you go ahead and buy it.
[+] [-] bena|3 years ago|reply
That and we have a subscription box from Meowbox for them as well. We used to get treats, but they didn't like the majority of them so it's just toys now.
[+] [-] vladvasiliu|3 years ago|reply
In France, a new law was just passed to fight against unsubscribing hell, called "3-click unsubscribe". It is due to come in effect at the beginning of 2023.
It basically says that if the business offers an "easy online subscription", then it has to offer an "easy online unsubscription" option. This doesn't apply to companies who only take subscriptions by some other means. However, it does apply to a subscription taken by other means if it's also possible to subscribe online.
Google Translate source: https://www-tf1info-fr.translate.goog/economie/abonnements-e...
[+] [-] derbOac|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TedDoesntTalk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tertius|3 years ago|reply
I've had my own experiences with gyms being hard to cancel. But in principle if I want an easy cancellation then I'll go month to month. If I have a 12 month contract I'm not going to cry if they resist when I want to cancel early...
[+] [-] ornornor|3 years ago|reply
Don’t ever move to Europe. This is standard practice across the board there. One thing North America does well in comparison is customer service.
[+] [-] orasis|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roberthahn|3 years ago|reply
Perhaps this needs to be thought of as part of a larger communications strategy - who here is part of a SaaS that sends regular 'marketing' emails to existing customers? :)
Maybe the defaults (boiled down, the provided examples appear to be "opt-in" if you're not in, and "opt-out" if you are in) are designed to streamline the process so conversations are ignorable so that's okay?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something! I definitely want to hear stories of this model working in the B2B space.
[+] [-] AlbertCory|3 years ago|reply
I got this email for a charge of $50 on K-Mart, 20 years ago! Incredible. There actually still are K-Marts, but the closest one to me is 60 miles away.
Anyhow, they said "it's too late for us to garnish or do anything else with this, but here's how you can clear it up." So no threats.
First of all, I was pretty sure I didn't have a $50 charge with K-Mart 20 years ago, and in any case... 20 years!! They didn't offer any data on what it was. So I sent them all to the Spam folder.
Amazingly, they sent one every day for two months. When I finally looked in the Spam folder, there they all were. They just wouldn't give up.
Finally, I figured out that they were assuming I was someone else with a similar name. I answered the email and said "I'm not him." The emails stopped.
[+] [-] gwd|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TulliusCicero|3 years ago|reply
This should be illegal. If you can easily sign up online, it should be possible to cancel online just as easily.
[+] [-] harrisonjackson|3 years ago|reply
How long can gyms, cable companies, cell providers etc keep customers hostage with cancellation policies like this? I mean it has been forever but c'mon!
If your business doesn't provide value to your customers then you should not milk them like this... you should start providing value or cut your losses and treat them well so they will still hopefully recommend you to a friend that actually needs whatever you are selling.
[+] [-] gwd|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] belthesar|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reidjs|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pyrolistical|3 years ago|reply
They are hoping you have some excess weight you never use and it’s free profit for them
[+] [-] bluepnume|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IceMetalPunk|3 years ago|reply
I don't know why, or when I signed up for it.
This is the second time it's happened, so I gave up and kept it. I do order from Amazon enough that it matters, I guess. It's scummy as hell, but effective. I'd much prefer a model like the one mentioned in this article.
[+] [-] bluepnume|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] goldcd|3 years ago|reply
Always thought it would be quite nifty if you could make a site like this for third-party services. I might see my 2 audible credits on there, and decide I've got enough, or need more. Or maybe apple could offer a free month - so I might pause my netflix. Could even combine stuff (free $10 Dominos credit added for each month of Netflix after month 12 etc).
Whole current system of every service having their own UI, is just a pain. Worked out paying for stuff works better then you can just stick it all on the same card - so why not manage it all from one place as well?
[+] [-] yeeyeeyee|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ancalagon|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kurupt213|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Raziarazzi|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] __derek__|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jkqwzsoo|3 years ago|reply
Another time, I had a service continue to try to bill me monthly for 2 years. I just let it keep saying "your order is about to ship" and "there was a problem with your card". Eventually, they found a way to charge me (I'm really not sure how) and had an order go through, after which I cancelled through an option buried in their website.
[+] [-] bluepnume|3 years ago|reply
1. You get a virtual card number to use for subscriptions
2. We detect recurring charges
3. We send you a text 24h before any refills
4. If you reply 'skip' we block the next charge, if you reply 'cancel' we cancel the card entirely
[+] [-] kube-system|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] exabrial|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eitland|3 years ago|reply
So I will (again?) remind people that there are lots of services that would make a lot more sense to pay for in the form of usage tokens instead of in the form om monthly payments.
But I guess that would mean missing out on sweet sweet revenue from forgetful customers.
[+] [-] linuxhansl|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] getcrunk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] getcrunk|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kurupt213|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nooby12345|3 years ago|reply