I renewed my UK passport from 6000 miles away in sunny CA. Took a week for it to arrive. Just been to the post office to renew the kids US passport which requires both parents to be there or notarized documents to say why not. Estimated delivery is 14 weeks.
My (US) wife continues to be in awe of the UK services compared to the US. I just wish the bus would come on time when I'm over there...
A not insignificant portion of our population buys into the myth that government is fundamentally incapable of providing timely and cost-effective services like this. As a result, there is little motivation to fix or improve these processes and instead we end up squabbling over whether to eliminate or privatize them. This turns the myth into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
From the USA it was faster (1 week), cheaper, and easier (all online, all digital, no mailing anything in) to renew my New Zealand passport, than it was to renew the US passport for the little one.
We were left with the impression that the USA just doesn’t care about improving these things. So it’s nice to see that the improvements are coming, they just took a while.
Me too - the estimate was 11 weeks, but start to finish the whole process took three, and I was able to take my own passport photo at home. A pleasant surprise!
My wife is a Mexican citizen. Last time she needed to renew her passport, she went to the consulate and came home with a new passport the same day. It seemed like some sort of black magic to me.
For anyone not reading the article, if you have a non-expired passport, you can already do everything online. Except! You need to mail in your current passport.
There are also expedited processing options. The ones I saw last year weren't terribly expensive.
For my qualifying emergency I called the duty officer, explained the situation, selected a 9am appointment, spent not even 10 minutes in the passport office and was told to come back to pick it up at 2pm. Walked in and was handed an envelope in less than a minute. Most pleasant government experience, by far — it just doesn’t scale.
Where are you seeing the ability to do it online? You can't as far as I can tell (I just did it).
> "Currently, the process requires filling out a renewal application called DS-82, providing a passport-sized photo, and calculating fees, plus tossing the current passport and potentially other identification papers in the mail. “It’s scary to mail in your [old] passport, marriage certificate, and other documents and hope you’ll get them back,” Rathner says."
You need to print the forms, staple a proper photo to them, and mail all your crap via USPS. The only thing you can do online is print the form (you can fill in the data first, but that's not the hard part).
When I hear "you can already do everything online" I think click submit and be done. You can't currently do that. It's barely a step above picking up the forms at USPS (where you have to go anyway).
That's interesting, the OP was I guess not quite right on this.
Not having to mail in your current passport is huge though. I hate being without a passport for the 2-3 months it currently takes, even if I have no travel planned (and what if I did?).
This is part of the White House’s executive order on improving digital service delivery.
> Sec. 4. Agency Actions to Improve Customer Experience. (a) The Secretary of State shall design and deliver a new online passport renewal experience that does not require any physical documents to be mailed.
Between this and open access to federally funded research it seems like we may be in for a slew of common sense executive orders ahead of the midterms. Some minor bug fixes for the federal government, if you will.
It's nice not to have to provide external references to renew your passport. Canadian passport holders have to provide two references to renew their Canadian passport. I'm a birth citizen and have never lived anywhere else. And my reference couldn't be family members. As an introvert, it wasn't easy, but I managed to find two people.
The Canadian government should abolish the requirement to provide references to renew a passport. It's pointless and creates a burden for people who are not extroverts with dozens of friends.
Near the end of last year, I had to renew my passport that had expired. I had to travel and was in a sweet spot window where I couldn't renew it and get it in time and I couldn't just go to a passport office and get one.
I ended up having to drive to El Paso, which was the only passport office that was open in the entire United States! I had to wait until a few days before my flight. There were people from all over staying in a hotel waiting for their passport. They had standby flights to leave once they got it. I met people from California, Arizona, Michigan, New York, and Florida. It was totally ridiculous.
Last year wasn't exactly typical. (I haven't needed it but I was very glad I renewed my passport pre-pandemic given that it was nearly out of pages even though it had a few years left.)
My kid's Irish passport costs €25 to renew. Her US passport is €130.
We wouldn't even bother with the US one except that it's illegal for her to enter the US on anything but a US passport. If we showed up with her Consular Report of Birth Abroad (which proves her US citizenship) could they legally refuse her entry to the US? I don't know.
But €130 to enter a country of which you're a citizen is annoying.
> illegal for her to enter the US on anything but a US passport
From what I recall reading on the internet (don't blame me if it's wrong), it's "illegal" but there's no actual penalty on the books. Apparently they scold you and give you a hard time, but let you pass through, since citizens are required to be allowed entry. (And I mean, consider what if you lost your passport during your trip?) I don't personally know anyone who's actually tried this so I have no idea how true it is in reality.
$13/year doesn’t seem outrageous. Anyway, it’s either funded by fee or by taxes; I’m not sure I care a lot about how I pay. Parenthetically, I also wonder if the €130 feels steeper because you’re used to a more favorable Euro:Dollar conversion rate (obviously this won’t account for the full cost difference between US and Irish passports)?
If she's under 16, you don't need a passport (or equivalent), if entering by land or sea:
"The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative requires
U.S. citizens, age 16 and older, to present a valid, acceptable travel
document, such as a passport, a U.S. passport card, a trusted
traveler card (NEXUS, SENTRI, Global Entry or FAST/EXPRESS),
a Permanent Resident Card or an enhanced driver’s license that
denotes both identity and citizenship when entering the U.S. by land
or sea. U.S. citizens under age 16 may present a birth certificate
or alternative proof of citizenship when entering by land or sea. All
travelers must have a passport book for international air travel."
I went through this process the other day with an expired passport and it took two weeks from submitting my documents online to getting a new passport and passport card. I had paid for expedited processing and shipping. Overall a great experience.
That sounds like a terrible experience to be honest. Two weeks for the expedited procedure ? The normal procedure here (Netherlands) takes 5 working days. If you pay for the expedited procedure and you order one before 14:00 you can pick up your passport the next day after 10:00.
I renewed my Indian passport 8000 miles away in California. The process took me around 10 days, no physical visits necessary. Honestly, I am quite impressed at the Indian passport services these days , both in the country and abroad.
Aisde: If you apply for a passport for the very first time, does it require someone to countersign your application? Or some means to verify you?
For example, in the UK, we have no national ID card. So, first-time passport applications and photos must be signed by someone else (the ‘countersignatory’) to prove the identity of the person applying.
(From GOV.UK) Your countersignatory must:
- have known you for at least 2 years
- be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally)
- be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession (there is a accepted occupations for countersignatories)
The countersignatory signs one of you photos and application. As far I'm aware, there is no real way to verify the countersignatory.
How are brand new passports issued in other countries when identity is required?
Here in Finland I can order a passport or ID card online, just need to add a photo to system. But now I need to go to police station to give sample of handwriting and possibly update my fingerprints... Waste of time. They already have both, but those are too old...
The whole paper process was foolish anyway - you go online to fill out an application, which then prints a bar code on the paper for them to scan. (They don't actually read the text on the form, it's all by the barcode.)
They scan the photo you send in anyway, and then print it on the passport. So they don't actually need you to ever so carefully make sure the photo is the right size.
The passport process in the USA is beyond awful. I just had to renew passports for my three kids, and my wife. It took a call to my local house of representatives office (who referred me to a different rep) to make it happen after 6 months.
Anything to do with the government is beyond awful.
From a country that practically invented modern software, modern SaaS solutions, modern mobile apps, it's a total disgrace.
I am super paranoid about passports since when I got my first one in 2020, USPS delivered it to the wrong house. They never got it back. So there is a passport of me out there in someone's hands.
I had it cancelled and got a new one issued, but who knows how often just my photo ID is being used :S. And the fact that they have all the info from my passport.
I just renewed my passport completely online through their beta program, and it was amazing. Only about two weeks from when I submitted the form to my new passport arriving. Hopefully that's the rough timeline for everyone going forward, but I wonder if they are able to process things faster right now due to lower volume.
Hopefully they'll accept these ones. A few border entries ago, CBP told me they recognized my US passport but they weren't going to let me in anyway. Several hours and interrogations later they finally admitted they had to let in a US citizen, "but remember we can cancel your passport."
This change will be quite welcome. The most difficult part of my last renewal was to find a working stapler in order to attach the passport photo. The experience had me questioning whether we are really living in 2022.
When I got mine a few years ago, it was a process. Mailing in forms. Going to get photos taken and having to mail physical copies in. Waiting for weeks.
[+] [-] spacedcowboy|3 years ago|reply
My (US) wife continues to be in awe of the UK services compared to the US. I just wish the bus would come on time when I'm over there...
[+] [-] babypuncher|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quag|3 years ago|reply
We were left with the impression that the USA just doesn’t care about improving these things. So it’s nice to see that the improvements are coming, they just took a while.
[+] [-] pfranz|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrwh|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] refurb|3 years ago|reply
Had new passport in hand one week later. Regular service.
They can be fast if they want to.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Dobbs|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dhosek|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] corobo|3 years ago|reply
Doesn't solve the issue but you can see how long it'll take and impress old people by knowing where the bus is :)
[+] [-] leephillips|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Thaxll|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomrod|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nerdface|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CodeWriter23|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway894345|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kayodelycaon|3 years ago|reply
There are also expedited processing options. The ones I saw last year weren't terribly expensive.
Edit: Fastest is 3 days, if you have emergency that qualifies. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/get-fas...
[+] [-] apaprocki|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gonehome|3 years ago|reply
> "Currently, the process requires filling out a renewal application called DS-82, providing a passport-sized photo, and calculating fees, plus tossing the current passport and potentially other identification papers in the mail. “It’s scary to mail in your [old] passport, marriage certificate, and other documents and hope you’ll get them back,” Rathner says."
You need to print the forms, staple a proper photo to them, and mail all your crap via USPS. The only thing you can do online is print the form (you can fill in the data first, but that's not the hard part).
When I hear "you can already do everything online" I think click submit and be done. You can't currently do that. It's barely a step above picking up the forms at USPS (where you have to go anyway).
[+] [-] jrochkind1|3 years ago|reply
Not having to mail in your current passport is huge though. I hate being without a passport for the 2-3 months it currently takes, even if I have no travel planned (and what if I did?).
[+] [-] toomuchtodo|3 years ago|reply
> Sec. 4. Agency Actions to Improve Customer Experience. (a) The Secretary of State shall design and deliver a new online passport renewal experience that does not require any physical documents to be mailed.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-action...
[+] [-] elil17|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Victerius|3 years ago|reply
The Canadian government should abolish the requirement to provide references to renew a passport. It's pointless and creates a burden for people who are not extroverts with dozens of friends.
[+] [-] useful|3 years ago|reply
I ended up having to drive to El Paso, which was the only passport office that was open in the entire United States! I had to wait until a few days before my flight. There were people from all over staying in a hotel waiting for their passport. They had standby flights to leave once they got it. I met people from California, Arizona, Michigan, New York, and Florida. It was totally ridiculous.
[+] [-] ghaff|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CalRobert|3 years ago|reply
My kid's Irish passport costs €25 to renew. Her US passport is €130.
We wouldn't even bother with the US one except that it's illegal for her to enter the US on anything but a US passport. If we showed up with her Consular Report of Birth Abroad (which proves her US citizenship) could they legally refuse her entry to the US? I don't know.
But €130 to enter a country of which you're a citizen is annoying.
[+] [-] dataflow|3 years ago|reply
From what I recall reading on the internet (don't blame me if it's wrong), it's "illegal" but there's no actual penalty on the books. Apparently they scold you and give you a hard time, but let you pass through, since citizens are required to be allowed entry. (And I mean, consider what if you lost your passport during your trip?) I don't personally know anyone who's actually tried this so I have no idea how true it is in reality.
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] throwaway894345|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xxpor|3 years ago|reply
"The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative requires U.S. citizens, age 16 and older, to present a valid, acceptable travel document, such as a passport, a U.S. passport card, a trusted traveler card (NEXUS, SENTRI, Global Entry or FAST/EXPRESS), a Permanent Resident Card or an enhanced driver’s license that denotes both identity and citizenship when entering the U.S. by land or sea. U.S. citizens under age 16 may present a birth certificate or alternative proof of citizenship when entering by land or sea. All travelers must have a passport book for international air travel."
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/A5...
[+] [-] refurb|3 years ago|reply
That’s $26 per year or $2/month.
[+] [-] cosentiyes|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Aaargh20318|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gourabmi|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] open-source-ux|3 years ago|reply
For example, in the UK, we have no national ID card. So, first-time passport applications and photos must be signed by someone else (the ‘countersignatory’) to prove the identity of the person applying.
(From GOV.UK) Your countersignatory must:
- have known you for at least 2 years
- be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally)
- be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession (there is a accepted occupations for countersignatories)
The countersignatory signs one of you photos and application. As far I'm aware, there is no real way to verify the countersignatory.
How are brand new passports issued in other countries when identity is required?
[+] [-] kyawzazaw|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vonzepp|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ekaros|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ars|3 years ago|reply
They scan the photo you send in anyway, and then print it on the passport. So they don't actually need you to ever so carefully make sure the photo is the right size.
It's like the joke about printing a document, then taking a picture of it on a wooden table: https://thedailywtf.com/articles/Web_0_0x2e_1
Just upload the info, upload a digital photo, and cut out all the paper.
[+] [-] jedberg|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ars|3 years ago|reply
Considering how expensive a passport is, there's something about the process that's very expensive, don't know what.
[+] [-] InTheArena|3 years ago|reply
Anything to do with the government is beyond awful.
From a country that practically invented modern software, modern SaaS solutions, modern mobile apps, it's a total disgrace.
[+] [-] slenk|3 years ago|reply
I had it cancelled and got a new one issued, but who knows how often just my photo ID is being used :S. And the fact that they have all the info from my passport.
[+] [-] juliansimioni|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notch656a|3 years ago|reply
LOL.
[+] [-] ugh123|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cjcampbell|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bluedino|3 years ago|reply