Mods, please correct the editorialized and wrong title. NumWorks isn't open source and never was.
What it is is source-available, because the source is available. Or at least it still was available the last time I looked at it.
NumWorks used to be fun because it had an unlocked bootloader, allowing users to download their own software onto the calculator. But then they did a face-heel turn.
To NumWorks' credit, I'm sure the UI is still miles ahead of Texas Instruments calculators.
EDIT: it seems NumWorks now allows users to download "apps" onto their devices. This is nice, of course, but still a far cry from the unlocked bootloader situation.
I've engaged in debates on HN about the definition of "open source" in the past, so there might be some disagreement about the meaning of the title.
I've settled on using "OSI open source" to avoid this, since those discussions are uniformly tiring and unproductive.
That said, I agree with parent: the repo specifically has a section regarding copyright and it simply says that all rights are reserved[0]. This is proprietary software, disallowing copying, distribution, and derivative works. It's weird, since even cloning the repo appears to be a violation of their stated terms, though they supply instructions for building the software yourself that of course requires copying the code to your machine first[1].
I think the creators do legitimately want to build a truly open source calculator. The problem is getting the calculator registered for exams - the examiners naturally want to make sure that the calculator isn't being used for cheating. And any method to replace the firmware, add custom applications, etc. can and should be viewed as a way to cheat on exams.
Personally, I'm hopefully never going to take another standardized exam in my life - I'd like to see a graphing calculator that doesn't attempt to get certified for exams or school use, since this seems to be such a significant hurdle. But I know I'm in the 0.1% of graphing calculator users who don't care about AP/IB/the SAT/whatever.
> I think the creators do legitimately want to build a truly open source calculator.
Somewhat like Google legitimately wants to "do no evil"?
Sometimes it is said that deeds, not words is what matters. But in this case even the words are missing, so I don't really get what you're trying to say.
I have one. It's great. It's quite an amazing bit of tech.
I wish they would split out the market, though, one for the educational market for tests and the like, and one for the professionals with wireless and more open capabilities.
I would like for instance to ship images of graphs to use in a web page. Or to use it as a keyboard to type equations and calculations into documents. Or to have it connect to PyPI say to grab programs that can calculate complex equations.... etc.
I have long believed that there is a huge market for some sort of rudimentary TI-style CAS system, with a caveat. Something that works on embedded arm devices, but is screen aware enough to be ported to a desktop.
If you include bluetooth in your calculator hardware, you now have an excellent input device for an onscreen CAS - or maybe something more like a screencast.
Extend this concept far enough, and we're talking about something like OP is describing - easy to sync and share small programs and tools. Further integration with excel and other tabulated data sources, and you've got a real killer on your hands.
Numworks is interesting, but not really that great. The two things I don't like are: 1. the Android app is a strictly a physical calculator emulator, and does not try to be the best possible calculator for Android. 2. On the real calculator, the user interface is pretty slow- sure, it's responsive, but it's not very efficient.
So for example, it comes in last on this benchmark:
Software isn't the worst thing for UI efficiency on NumWorks: the buttons are very low quality. So not only are many key presses necessary (according to your benchmark), but each key press must be relatively carefully performed to avoid the wrong key being actuated, for example.
The NumWorks is now a fauxpensource device. They changed their license months ago after a debacle with their exam mode. Delta/Upsilon firmware are based on the pre-license change firmware.
Where does the statement around rust support come from?
This thing looks a whole lot like the HP Prime[0] calculator. From the icons to select the "applications" (aka modes) and the pop up menus. That said the HP has a color screen and from the looks of it better buttons.
Too bad HP didn't care enough about calculators to make the prime live up to its potential.
nsajko|3 years ago
What it is is source-available, because the source is available. Or at least it still was available the last time I looked at it.
NumWorks used to be fun because it had an unlocked bootloader, allowing users to download their own software onto the calculator. But then they did a face-heel turn.
To NumWorks' credit, I'm sure the UI is still miles ahead of Texas Instruments calculators.
EDIT: it seems NumWorks now allows users to download "apps" onto their devices. This is nice, of course, but still a far cry from the unlocked bootloader situation.
rpdillon|3 years ago
I've settled on using "OSI open source" to avoid this, since those discussions are uniformly tiring and unproductive.
That said, I agree with parent: the repo specifically has a section regarding copyright and it simply says that all rights are reserved[0]. This is proprietary software, disallowing copying, distribution, and derivative works. It's weird, since even cloning the repo appears to be a violation of their stated terms, though they supply instructions for building the software yourself that of course requires copying the code to your machine first[1].
Copyright is weird.
[0]: https://github.com/numworks/epsilon#copyright
[1]: https://www.numworks.com/resources/engineering/software/buil...
Edit: Figured it out. License was changed 13 months ago: https://github.com/numworks/epsilon/commit/b1ea81f067f5fef3f...
gigatexal|3 years ago
satiric|3 years ago
Personally, I'm hopefully never going to take another standardized exam in my life - I'd like to see a graphing calculator that doesn't attempt to get certified for exams or school use, since this seems to be such a significant hurdle. But I know I'm in the 0.1% of graphing calculator users who don't care about AP/IB/the SAT/whatever.
nsajko|3 years ago
Somewhat like Google legitimately wants to "do no evil"?
Sometimes it is said that deeds, not words is what matters. But in this case even the words are missing, so I don't really get what you're trying to say.
josephcsible|3 years ago
Then making one that wasn't certified for exams is exactly what they should have done. As it stands, they're just another TI.
CrazedGeek|3 years ago
And apparently a jailbreak for Epsilon 16+: https://phi.getomega.dev/
homarp|3 years ago
(it's a port/adaptation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xcas )
unknown|3 years ago
[deleted]
gbraad|3 years ago
jedisct1|3 years ago
There's just a GitHub repository with a toy example in Rust, that uses nothing but direct unsafe calls to five C functions.
But Python, yeah, definitely. That's the beauty of this calculator.
nsajko|3 years ago
Well, it's a forked MicroPython. It doesn't actually support Python, just something similar to Python.
bb88|3 years ago
I wish they would split out the market, though, one for the educational market for tests and the like, and one for the professionals with wireless and more open capabilities.
I would like for instance to ship images of graphs to use in a web page. Or to use it as a keyboard to type equations and calculations into documents. Or to have it connect to PyPI say to grab programs that can calculate complex equations.... etc.
charles_kaw|3 years ago
If you include bluetooth in your calculator hardware, you now have an excellent input device for an onscreen CAS - or maybe something more like a screencast.
Extend this concept far enough, and we're talking about something like OP is describing - easy to sync and share small programs and tools. Further integration with excel and other tabulated data sources, and you've got a real killer on your hands.
a-dub|3 years ago
for symbolic math try wolfram alpha, the matlab symbolic math toolbox or one of the symbolic math packages available for python.
josephcsible|3 years ago
semenko|3 years ago
It looks like NumWorks is open source (including the hardware) [2] and supports Python and Rust! [3]
[1] https://gen.medium.com/big-calculator-how-texas-instruments-...
[2] https://www.numworks.com/resources/engineering/
[3] https://github.com/numworks/epsilon-sample-app-rust
jpbadan|3 years ago
jhallenworld|3 years ago
So for example, it comes in last on this benchmark:
https://github.com/jhallen/calculator/wiki
nsajko|3 years ago
That said, the NumWorks UI is quite intuitive.
geophertz|3 years ago
I know of a lot of teachers who use them for teaching.
gbraad|3 years ago
Where does the statement around rust support come from?
josephcsible|3 years ago
wscott|3 years ago
Too bad HP didn't care enough about calculators to make the prime live up to its potential.
[0]: https://hpcalcs.com/product/hp-prime-graphing-calculator/
solarized|3 years ago
j-james|3 years ago
https://www.numworks.com/simulator
agumonkey|3 years ago
skavi|3 years ago
hirebackenddev|3 years ago