It was neat to see Thomas Ran name-dropped in a New Yorker article. He's one of the most brutal keyboard reviewers on YouTube (and quite hilarious). I sent him some of my 3D printed key switches not too long ago and he did a teardown video:
Many have found the mechanical keyboard hobby to be quite deep... When you reach the point when you're ready to start designing your own key switches and actuation mechanisms contact me and I'll give you some advice :)
If you're curious what a 3D printed (analog hall effect) keyboard using 3D printed switches (and keycaps) looks like:
> When you reach the point when you're ready to start designing your own key switches and actuation mechanisms contact me and I'll give you some advice
Very cool! I’ve been idly wondering how I could build a keyboard with smaller keys, for someone I know who is a little person. The 3D printed switches seem like a great option. It looks like some of the keys in that review were smaller than standard, how far could they be scaled down? Do you have a link to print instructions you can share?
The keyboard rabbit-hole gets pretty deep. I started off wanting a nicer typing experience, and ended up realising so much about the traditional keyboard designs didn't make sense to me (here's someone nicely summing up the reasons why https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrska7UU7BE).
Perhaps unfair to inject a mini-AskHN, but here goes: I'm a Mac user these days, and I have seen that one can go down the rabbit hole with keyboards. I have zero interest in building one. I do have a WASD keyboard, but I've also wanted a bit more, like (better) layers : I have a few fond memories of VT420 life, when those numpad keys and the GOLD/BLUE layers were awesome.) I also don't use Windows...so use of at least some Windows-focused firmware seems less accessible. Reddit seems much more about builds - interesting for keyboard porn and inspiration, I suppose, but not actionable. It also seems many good things are purchased via drops so I suppose that way can work if you know where to go and how long to wait.
I've looked about for a good keyboard with programmable firmware, for a Mac...or even just a programmable numpad-looking macropad, but maybe there's more I've not seen.
What resources are out there to find ways to find off the shelf options, for Macs?
Note: I'm not 100% sure the ZMK list is up to date as it's under much more active development and new keyboards get support all the time since almost any keyboard that has QMK support can get ZMK support by swapping the AmTel-based Pro Micro for a nRF52840-based nice!nano board.
I'm only a small bit into this hobby/obsession, but the two keyboards I'd recommend are the Moonlander or the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard. They're both split, but the UHK can be combined together (not so easy on the Moonlander.)
They're very popular, so have a bunch of good out-of-the-box documentation and a good out-of-the-box experience if you don't want to go too far into the rabbit hole of configuring keys and stuff.
I think the UHK is a bit more pleasant build-quality wise, and it's definitely easier to start with because it's not columnar, which is a whole other thing that a keyboard can be. (Some people like columnar layouts, some hate it, I'm undecided myself and use both.)
Ergodox-based keyboards might interest you. I use one myself with a Mac. And you could easily set up a specific layer to give you a numpad. There's a bit of a learning curve however: it's a split keyboard with keys arranged in an ortholinear layout. For off-the-shelf options, look into Ergodox EZ.
Check out kmonad. I hear a lot of people try mech keyboards and talk about how much they miss the native Mac keyboards. Kmonad will allow you lots of flexibility with layers and all the basics you get with QMK without having to leave your keyboard.
I occasionally think about getting a mechanical keyboard, because I'd like a nice keyboard. But I have no interest in it as a hobby, and the whole topic has a similar vibe as the audiophile community. I feel like the chance of getting punked is pretty high.
> But I have no interest in it as a hobby, and the whole topic has a similar vibe as the audiophile community.
While the custom keyboard community does tend to get in to pointlessly overcomplicated cables similarly to audiophiles, unlike the audiophile crowd no one really tries to claim they actually do anything beyond looking good.
IMO the keyboard community does a pretty decent job separating the subjective from the objective. People will go deep in to rabbit holes about their preferred feel and sound, but they acknowledge that once you've gone past the entry level basically everything other than ergonomics is pure personal preference and even ergonomics has a lot of personal aspects to it based on your own physical needs, setup, and use case.
You won't find anyone trying to claim that their magical USB cable makes the bits go faster, unlike the audiophile world where $500 ethernet cables are a thing.
You don't need to be part of the "community" to use a mechanical keyboard, it doesn't have to be a hobby, normally mechanical keyboards don't need maintenance and last longer than rubber domes.
As for choosing the right one, the best is to try them out at the store if you can. Find the one that looks and feels the best, buy it, plug it in, done, drop-in replacement. You can't really go wrong, these are just keyboards.
I'd say the only feature you may look for that is not obvious is NKRO (N-key rollover), or the ability to press any number of keys at the same time. If you are paying $100 or more for a keyboard, it is something you want. Most keyboards in this price range have it. 6KRO means you can press any 6 keys at the same time, it is not quite NKRO, but unless you have special needs, it is just as good, 2KRO (2 keys) is the one to avoid. It is sometimes called "anti ghosting" but some manufacturers cheat, so, not a reliable indication.
There are other features like hardware remapping, RGB lighting,... but if you need these, you will know beforehand.
Small caveat though. Many mechanical keyboards, especially in big box stores have clicky switches, clicky switches may be perfectly fine for you, but chances are that people next to you won't like them as much. Please be considerate of your surroundings when using a loud keyboard (are we back into audiophile territory ;))
As someone who embraced mechanical keyboards, I’m sorry that people get this impression, which is totally deserved. People who use custom keyboards as a signaling mechanism degrade their perceived benefit. For me, programmability of the keyboard is the most important factor; then, ergonomics.
It's surprising to me, as it feels like a development from the last 5 years where the hobbyist community has totally eclipsed the prosumer community.
I had to replace a failed keyboard last year and went looking for advice - when I last did it it was basically a question of "do you want clicky or not switches? Das is a pretty reliable brand but Razer has some stuff with RGB if you like that"
Now it's all "Oh don't buy an off-the-shelf one, wait for this dude's next massdrop order or buy a kit and put it together yourself"
And I just don't have time for that. This is one area where I'm pretty happy just looking for a recommendation for something I can just buy and use.
Once, someone pointed out to me that we spend a large amount of time with our feet in shoes and our hands on a keyboard, but somehow a closet full of shoes is more readily accepted than even just a pair of keyboards to switch between. I felt good about buying a second keyboard after that
I still regret getting rid of whatever keyboard I had with my Intel 286 PC, probably a Model M from what I read about the times.
Typing was an experience on that thing, like energy flowing through the keyboard into your body, the physicality of the springs was so strong. But strangely I remember typing extremely fast on it, even though it must have needed so much extra force.
I have a decent store bought mechanical keyboard now and it's nice but still very different.
I sold my Model F to a collector, who wrote back to tell me he didn't care for it. I have regretted that sale many times, because I loved that keyboard.
I waited four years for a reproduction (from https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/) plus another year to complete the keycaps. Worth the wait. Expensive and it has an oddball layout, but the typing feel is glorious.
I’ve had a few different mechanical keyboards and they’ve all felt … OK but not great. I bought a Unicomp Model M relatively recently and it has been awesome. Really appreciate the feeling of the keys. Would get absolutely crucified in an office setting but at home, it’s been a real treat.
I'd LOVE to buy a split keyboard, but I can't seem to find any prebuilt that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and soldering my own is not an option (I have some physical issues impairing my precision hand work).
But I have one extra requirement: I am Scandinavian which means that I need to have keys for Nordic letters. This makes me extremely niche which in turn means that I cannot buy anything pre-built.
And I do not find much joy in building my own keyboards. I want something prebuilt.
There must be a business opportunity here for someone to make something that is split, ergonomic keyboard with good mechanical keys and which allows for customization such that Nordic letters could be mapped...
You don't have to get obsessive with it. I have a keychron k7 and I'm absolutely happy with it, no plans of changing anything. Well, I broke the on/off switch when disassembling because I spilled water over it. I contacted them and got new switches. I soldered on one of them and don't plan to open that thing again anytime soon.
Am I the only one who prefers the most pleb membrane keyboards over anything mechanical? I already type super quickly on, say, a 2015 MacBook Pro, a default 2010 Apple external KB, or a $5 Logitech. There's just enough feedback to know that I pressed the key, it takes very little force, and I can glide my fingers around really quickly. I don't even bother with cleaning cause the oiliness makes it faster if anything.
I've tried several mech keyboards. The longer key travel doesn't seem to improve speed, and I don't see how it would. Also most of them come with the concave key caps for some reason, which of course you can switch out, but I feel like any amount I spend fixing one would still result in something worse than what I already have.
For me, it's not so much a question of speed, but one of comfort.
The longer key travel helps with avoiding bottoming out once you're used to your keyboard. On a short-travel keyboard, where keys are basically "either fully up or down", I don't think it's easy, or even possible, to not bottom-out.
This also allows keys to not need so much force for actuation. Whenever I switch from my mechanical keyboard to my 2013 MBP or HP laptop (with a similar kb) I always miss letters because I don't press hard enough.
I honestly don't know whether I type quicker or slower on a mechanical keyboard. But speed has never been a limiting factor in my work.
The weird thing about key travel to me is that the keyboard isn't an instrument, there's no control or finesse required, it's binary - you want the character or not. When playing an instrument like a piano, you want the level of control (assuming you play better than I do) so long travel makes sense. If playing a guitar at speed, economy of movement is key to accuracy at high speeds - (a) strings should not be any further away from the frets than is required, (b) fingers should not lift any further away than is required, (c) pick should not move miles and miles but just enough to make the required sound.
I enjoy typing on clicky keyboards like my Keychron, but I gotta say, the flawed MBP keyboards of recent times with hardly any travel were amazing. I'm on a 2019 MBP 16 now and it's not as good as the previous one, and the new 2021 MBP isn't much better either.
I felt the same and loved the stock macbook keyboards. Now I have a keychron k7, which is "slim" for mechanical keyboards and that's what I prefer. I still don't like proper mechanical keyboards with full height. Feels weird to me. Whatever floats your boat I guess!
I also hate keyboards with a lot of key travel. It feels like I sink into the keyboard and then catch on the surrounding keys when trying to move. The 2015 MBP keyboard was peak keyboard to me. Not only can I not find any PC keyboards with the same feel, I also can't find any PC keyboards with the correct layout.
I’m the same I guess. I’ve tried a couple of mechs, and now my daily driver is the MS sculpt ergo. I’m happy on a macbook kb, or the cheap membrane kb I have to use at work. The mechs just didn’t have a material advantage for me, and I didn’t like the feel.
I have this IBM PS two mechanical keyboard and I don’t know why but… I don’t really care much for the mechanical keyboards. My first laptop was made by micron, and the keys were very soft and sponge and quiet. The Macbooks from 2012 have a great keyboard.
My first computer was a Macboon Pro from 2012. I replaced it (well, the aluminum unibody, ship of theseus-style) with a 2017 Macbook Pro when I started college. Now I've got so much muscle memory with the Apple layout that at work I use a USB apple keyboard with my ubuntu workstation. My coworkers are almost all mechanical keyboard junkies, and they never let me hear the end of it.
I have assembled 4 or 5 keyboards, the last 2 all have switches assembled from different parts (springs, tops, stems etc bought separately). I don’t really care that much about the shape of the keycaps (cherry profile would do but good to have alternatives), but i am very particular about the layout.
It seems to me the only logical resolution of my keyboard hobby is it design my own keyboard that will address most of my complaints. They are minor but the more I think about it the more I conclude that in the future people would be using fully custom (layout, spacing, etc) keyboards a lot. Unless the typing goes away.
An interesting and slightly unsettling fact about Wrona is that when he competes, he has no strong preference for mechanical or rubber-dome boards, and usually just goes for whatever’s cheapest.
As a fast typist myself (normally 140-160, brief bursts over 200) I can say that being able to type quickly is not something that most mechanical keyboards are optimised for; what's important is a very low actuation force and travel (but a long "cushion zone" past that), since at high speeds caring whether the key was successfully hit will make you hesitate and slow down.
From a reliability standpoint, rubberdome keys seems to be a superior technology. Each and every mechanical keyboard I used developed key chattering after several years (sometimes months) and had to be thrown out eventually. On the other hand I have various rubberdome keyboards that type away without issue after almost a decade of use. Maybe it's just that most modern switches are rubbish, as I've seen people type on old model M keyboards that must have had decades of use, so it might just be a manufacturing issue.
[+] [-] riskable|3 years ago|reply
https://youtu.be/H_Ym9528awM
Many have found the mechanical keyboard hobby to be quite deep... When you reach the point when you're ready to start designing your own key switches and actuation mechanisms contact me and I'll give you some advice :)
If you're curious what a 3D printed (analog hall effect) keyboard using 3D printed switches (and keycaps) looks like:
https://gfycat.com/firsthanduniformeasteuropeanshepherd
...and it has some interesting features:
https://gfycat.com/costlyglaringhyracotherium
[+] [-] bdowling|3 years ago|reply
Is he able to touch-type but simply chooses not to? Or did his obsession with keyboards never lead to him learning how? It's a mystery to me.
[+] [-] seltzered_|3 years ago|reply
Any ideas on how to approach half-sized key switches? So far I'm erring to what @pseudoku3 has done by cutting down existing key switches: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/comments/v0g89d...
[+] [-] pca006132|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theptip|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmetzler|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrtedbear|3 years ago|reply
For me the optimum is a split 34-key keyboard (the open-source Ferris Sweep https://github.com/davidphilipbarr/Sweep) with a custom keymap firmware (QMK).
Going even deeper, you can generate a PCB layout that's personalised to the shape of your hands: https://github.com/ergogen/ergogen
[+] [-] Jailbird|3 years ago|reply
I've looked about for a good keyboard with programmable firmware, for a Mac...or even just a programmable numpad-looking macropad, but maybe there's more I've not seen.
What resources are out there to find ways to find off the shelf options, for Macs?
Edit: s/these/off the shelf options/
[+] [-] badlucklottery|3 years ago|reply
QMK keyboards: https://qmk.fm/keyboards/
ZMK keyboards: https://zmk.dev/docs/hardware
Note: I'm not 100% sure the ZMK list is up to date as it's under much more active development and new keyboards get support all the time since almost any keyboard that has QMK support can get ZMK support by swapping the AmTel-based Pro Micro for a nRF52840-based nice!nano board.
[+] [-] ttepasse|3 years ago|reply
For custom keyboard layouts there is the app Ukulele which is slightly more easier than writing the XML files per hand:
https://software.sil.org/ukelele/
https://web.archive.org/web/20080509183706/http://developer....
For more complicated key bindings the Cocoa Text System is rather nice; you can even create little macros:
https://web.archive.org/web/20061127104844/http://www.hcs.ha...
(Disclaimer: I last tested these things 2005ish and Apple is only moving forward. Still I think those systems are still there.)
[+] [-] koziserek|3 years ago|reply
My golden medium is Anne Pro II, even though I own new model F. But more and more I’m getting drawn to an idea of building 36 keys custom.
Watch something from a channel of this hugely underrated gent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_VuXVErD6E
Edit: typos (ipad screen kbd…)
[+] [-] edanm|3 years ago|reply
They're very popular, so have a bunch of good out-of-the-box documentation and a good out-of-the-box experience if you don't want to go too far into the rabbit hole of configuring keys and stuff.
I think the UHK is a bit more pleasant build-quality wise, and it's definitely easier to start with because it's not columnar, which is a whole other thing that a keyboard can be. (Some people like columnar layouts, some hate it, I'm undecided myself and use both.)
[+] [-] kibibyte|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] comfypotato|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] morsch|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wolrah|3 years ago|reply
While the custom keyboard community does tend to get in to pointlessly overcomplicated cables similarly to audiophiles, unlike the audiophile crowd no one really tries to claim they actually do anything beyond looking good.
IMO the keyboard community does a pretty decent job separating the subjective from the objective. People will go deep in to rabbit holes about their preferred feel and sound, but they acknowledge that once you've gone past the entry level basically everything other than ergonomics is pure personal preference and even ergonomics has a lot of personal aspects to it based on your own physical needs, setup, and use case.
You won't find anyone trying to claim that their magical USB cable makes the bits go faster, unlike the audiophile world where $500 ethernet cables are a thing.
[+] [-] GuB-42|3 years ago|reply
As for choosing the right one, the best is to try them out at the store if you can. Find the one that looks and feels the best, buy it, plug it in, done, drop-in replacement. You can't really go wrong, these are just keyboards.
I'd say the only feature you may look for that is not obvious is NKRO (N-key rollover), or the ability to press any number of keys at the same time. If you are paying $100 or more for a keyboard, it is something you want. Most keyboards in this price range have it. 6KRO means you can press any 6 keys at the same time, it is not quite NKRO, but unless you have special needs, it is just as good, 2KRO (2 keys) is the one to avoid. It is sometimes called "anti ghosting" but some manufacturers cheat, so, not a reliable indication.
There are other features like hardware remapping, RGB lighting,... but if you need these, you will know beforehand.
Small caveat though. Many mechanical keyboards, especially in big box stores have clicky switches, clicky switches may be perfectly fine for you, but chances are that people next to you won't like them as much. Please be considerate of your surroundings when using a loud keyboard (are we back into audiophile territory ;))
[+] [-] laserlight|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Macha|3 years ago|reply
I had to replace a failed keyboard last year and went looking for advice - when I last did it it was basically a question of "do you want clicky or not switches? Das is a pretty reliable brand but Razer has some stuff with RGB if you like that"
Now it's all "Oh don't buy an off-the-shelf one, wait for this dude's next massdrop order or buy a kit and put it together yourself"
And I just don't have time for that. This is one area where I'm pretty happy just looking for a recommendation for something I can just buy and use.
[+] [-] woevdbz|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thwoeruoi2343|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] KVFinn|3 years ago|reply
Typing was an experience on that thing, like energy flowing through the keyboard into your body, the physicality of the springs was so strong. But strangely I remember typing extremely fast on it, even though it must have needed so much extra force.
I have a decent store bought mechanical keyboard now and it's nice but still very different.
[+] [-] tuatoru|3 years ago|reply
1. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD
[+] [-] mamcx|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JasonFruit|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spear|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonwest|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Sunspark|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0xCAP|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hosteur|3 years ago|reply
That is:
But I have one extra requirement: I am Scandinavian which means that I need to have keys for Nordic letters. This makes me extremely niche which in turn means that I cannot buy anything pre-built.And I do not find much joy in building my own keyboards. I want something prebuilt.
There must be a business opportunity here for someone to make something that is split, ergonomic keyboard with good mechanical keys and which allows for customization such that Nordic letters could be mapped...
[+] [-] RamblingCTO|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quercusa|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] benreesman|3 years ago|reply
I've been pretty happy with the HHKB (no caps, obviously), but it just sounds fun to make something truly your own.
Does anyone have a good pointer for the right place to start with this (huge) topic?
[+] [-] CTDOCodebases|3 years ago|reply
You can modify the domes, get adapters (sliders) to use MX style keycaps and even replace the case.
[+] [-] hot_gril|3 years ago|reply
I've tried several mech keyboards. The longer key travel doesn't seem to improve speed, and I don't see how it would. Also most of them come with the concave key caps for some reason, which of course you can switch out, but I feel like any amount I spend fixing one would still result in something worse than what I already have.
[+] [-] vladvasiliu|3 years ago|reply
The longer key travel helps with avoiding bottoming out once you're used to your keyboard. On a short-travel keyboard, where keys are basically "either fully up or down", I don't think it's easy, or even possible, to not bottom-out.
This also allows keys to not need so much force for actuation. Whenever I switch from my mechanical keyboard to my 2013 MBP or HP laptop (with a similar kb) I always miss letters because I don't press hard enough.
I honestly don't know whether I type quicker or slower on a mechanical keyboard. But speed has never been a limiting factor in my work.
[+] [-] vr46|3 years ago|reply
I enjoy typing on clicky keyboards like my Keychron, but I gotta say, the flawed MBP keyboards of recent times with hardly any travel were amazing. I'm on a 2019 MBP 16 now and it's not as good as the previous one, and the new 2021 MBP isn't much better either.
[+] [-] RamblingCTO|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LoganDark|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Gatsky|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] richdaystrom|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] immigrantheart|3 years ago|reply
I just ordered literally yesterday an UHK keyboard, with trackball module as well. Hopefully this can satisfy my HHKB + Microsoft Sculpt combo.
If not, I might have to go dive the keyboard rabbit hole.
[+] [-] aphroz|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MrDresden|3 years ago|reply
[0]: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com
[+] [-] Overtonwindow|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jasinjames|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wellthisisgreat|3 years ago|reply
It seems to me the only logical resolution of my keyboard hobby is it design my own keyboard that will address most of my complaints. They are minor but the more I think about it the more I conclude that in the future people would be using fully custom (layout, spacing, etc) keyboards a lot. Unless the typing goes away.
[+] [-] userbinator|3 years ago|reply
As a fast typist myself (normally 140-160, brief bursts over 200) I can say that being able to type quickly is not something that most mechanical keyboards are optimised for; what's important is a very low actuation force and travel (but a long "cushion zone" past that), since at high speeds caring whether the key was successfully hit will make you hesitate and slow down.
[+] [-] ThePhysicist|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] haspoken|3 years ago|reply