Not sure the question needs a definitive answer, but anything that helps to preserve these pubs as pubs is a-ok with me. I recall heavy sessions in The Red Lion down in Southampton because we were acquainted with the owners some time back, so we would just be locked in, party all night, pass out in the rooms upstairs and then carry on the next day. The pub might have been from the 12th Century, or the 15th, but either way, our flagrant abuse of its premises and hospitality seems entirely in keeping with its history.
In Southampton I prefer the Dancing Man, which has only been a pub for a handful of years, but is housed in a building nearer to 700 years old. They brew on site, and it's really good stuff!
When I was at a conference in Birmingham a couple of years ago, I visited a Weatherspoons pub which might not have been the oldest, but definitely had not changed the kegs since the 12th century.
Submitting this because I find it interesting that there's a bunch of old stuff in England and because there's so much of it we often don't have good quality information about it, and it's not always in good condition.
The article describes New Inn in Gloucester as "This incredibly well-preserved, galleried, courtyard inn", and that's true. But here's the New Inn in Google maps
There's some modern retail unit infill on the ground floor; there are alarm boxes and hanging basket brackets stuck on the walls; and the context of the building has been destroyed - the pavement and surrounding buildings are all modern.
Kinda hard to avoid the juxtaposition though, isn't it? Not like you can conjure suitable old neighbors for these survivors.
For an example of the same thing (except with jarringly more extreme difference between the old and new) in the New World, take a look at Fraunces Tavern in New York City:
The tavern dates from about 1720. So, it's old for America, although nothing special age-wise from a European point of view. But it's almost literally buried in 30 to 50 story glass and steel towers, between Wall Street and The Battery.
I'd agree about the first one, which looks a bit of a mess, but I actually quite enjoy the "another example just down the street of a very old building with an unhappy juxtaposition" example (I quite like brutalist architecture when done well, and like the juxtaposition there). It's a bit of a shame to me that the Costa frontage has replaced what was presumably a rather nice ground floor though. I think what I mind most is blandness, which is in the third example.
My office is in a small-town downtown US building that is that building on the block. Most of the buildings date to the 1870s after a fire nearly leveled the area, with nice brickwork and decorative elements. Ours however is a late-1950s department store with an imposing red brick facade and just a few small windows.
Some years ago a 1930s gangster movie was filmed here and they went out of their way to avoid including our extremely anachronistic building in the shot. I think it snuck into a few frames during a car chase though.
> Nottingham’s Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem is a timber-framed building dating to the 17th century, and was not open for business until the late-18th century
From what I understand the claim about Ye Olde Trip relates more to the caves that form part of the structure and the part they may have played as a gathering point for crusaders heading south, with claims that there was a tavern of some sort on the site, than the existing front of the building.
However they certainly like to imply some sort of continuity of trade so it's interesting to find out different.
Regardless of the veracity of the claims, it's well worth a look at a quiet time, because there aren't that many pubs where the back rooms are literally caves in the bedrock!
In Nottingham is The trip to Jerusalem. It's age as a pub is debated but it's carved into jurassic sandstone, so by one measure ~165 million years old.
Pub's page https://www.greeneking-pubs.co.uk/pubs/nottinghamshire/ye-ol... - is shite. The uneven flagstones (walking on them was like being at sea) seem gone, so are all the currency notes people would stick on walls. Basically they've stripped it of its character. And no pics of the sandstone. Sigh, they've destroyed half of what made it.
Even when I was a student there in the 1980s, it had rather sold out to the tourist industry and wasn't frequented much by locals.
However, if you asked nicely, the landlord would allow you to go down into the cellars which are cavernous and were apparently used in the Middle Ages to harbour Jewish people under threat from persecution.
Met my wife in there, oo, some years ago, and I have been disappointed at how clean and shiny it all looks these days. I almost miss the days of smoking being allowed in pubs and the filthy mess they used to be.
Just down the road in Angel a pub celebrated its 600th anniversary a few years ago, dating back to 1415, that doesn't even feel particularly old in the UK.
As someone that grew up in York I was surprised to not see any mentions of buildings from there. There's quite a lot of buildings from around 1500 but most current day pubs seem to be in buildings that started at houses or commercial properties.
I'm sure some of the brits on here could review each of these as pubs. For my part Ye Olde Fighting Cocks has good beer and food and of course very low ceilings - definitely feels like a very old pub. The George Inn is also very good, although in a much quieter area, and I didn't even notice it was particularly old when I visited, you also start to get suspicious when you go across to the Fleur de Lys and find out that both of these pubs in this tiny tiny village are run by literally the same people - on the day we were there one guy had to run back and forth across the road because they were low on staff.
I was last in the Old Man & Scythe[1] about 15 years ago. It was one of those weird and wonderful cider places. I had a couple and became slowly aware that i couldn't actually use my legs anymore.
Pretty sure at least one other person in the pub had pissed themselves. The two are probably related, and to anyone who has drank around the Bradshawgate in Bolton, this is by no means a reason to disregard a pub.
I eventually regained use of my legs and carefully stumbled home.
It claims to be England's oldest freehouse; not sure how important that distinction is versus "pub," unless it's the whole religious affiliation thing.
There seems to be a suggestion it was "Se Scip" prior to the Restoration in 1663:
There's a pub where I grew up that claim it's been there since 1040 odd. Not sure of the historical accuracy but the claim is its mention in the domesday book.
I would have expected it to be at a seaport. The kinds of place which brew for local consumption might come and go but a place at an entrepot tends to stay.
Or, be associated either with a monastery or a baronial estate.
The ship of Theseus comes to mind. Surely some of these were not in continuous operation, changed owners or moved buildings. Is that the same pub then?
A large part of the article concerns this. There’s mention of a pub that’s in a building from the 11c though it didn’t start being used as a pub until the 15c.
The idea of 'officially' is funny. A island inhabited for thousands of years, alcohol licensing administered by various authorities over the centuries, a populace that doesn't care much for central authority... . The Bingley Arms looks wonderful. It's a THOUSAND year old boozer. But let's keep it unofficial because who wants an office for these things?
[+] [-] vr46|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nursie|3 years ago|reply
In Southampton I prefer the Dancing Man, which has only been a pub for a handful of years, but is housed in a building nearer to 700 years old. They brew on site, and it's really good stuff!
[+] [-] Simon_O_Rourke|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vr46|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DanBC|3 years ago|reply
The article describes New Inn in Gloucester as "This incredibly well-preserved, galleried, courtyard inn", and that's true. But here's the New Inn in Google maps
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8656679,-2.2453785,3a,83.4...
There's some modern retail unit infill on the ground floor; there are alarm boxes and hanging basket brackets stuck on the walls; and the context of the building has been destroyed - the pavement and surrounding buildings are all modern.
This thing about context is writ large in Gloucester. Here's another example just down the street of a very old building with an unhappy juxtaposition with a more modern building: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8650378,-2.2462721,3a,75y,...
Here's another example of a not great modern building put up next to an old (1450) building: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Cookes+Coffee+%26+Curios...
(I'm not anti modern building! Many of them are more accessible, beautiful, playful, creative. But, also, lots of them are just rubbish.)
[+] [-] walnutclosefarm|3 years ago|reply
For an example of the same thing (except with jarringly more extreme difference between the old and new) in the New World, take a look at Fraunces Tavern in New York City:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7035379,-74.0113687,3a,75y,2...
The tavern dates from about 1720. So, it's old for America, although nothing special age-wise from a European point of view. But it's almost literally buried in 30 to 50 story glass and steel towers, between Wall Street and The Battery.
[+] [-] frereubu|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drewzero1|3 years ago|reply
Some years ago a 1930s gangster movie was filmed here and they went out of their way to avoid including our extremely anachronistic building in the shot. I think it snuck into a few frames during a car chase though.
[+] [-] Nursie|3 years ago|reply
From what I understand the claim about Ye Olde Trip relates more to the caves that form part of the structure and the part they may have played as a gathering point for crusaders heading south, with claims that there was a tavern of some sort on the site, than the existing front of the building.
However they certainly like to imply some sort of continuity of trade so it's interesting to find out different.
Regardless of the veracity of the claims, it's well worth a look at a quiet time, because there aren't that many pubs where the back rooms are literally caves in the bedrock!
[+] [-] zasdffaa|3 years ago|reply
wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Olde_Trip_to_Jerusalem - crappy pics
Pub's page https://www.greeneking-pubs.co.uk/pubs/nottinghamshire/ye-ol... - is shite. The uneven flagstones (walking on them was like being at sea) seem gone, so are all the currency notes people would stick on walls. Basically they've stripped it of its character. And no pics of the sandstone. Sigh, they've destroyed half of what made it.
[+] [-] kitd|3 years ago|reply
However, if you asked nicely, the landlord would allow you to go down into the cellars which are cavernous and were apparently used in the Middle Ages to harbour Jewish people under threat from persecution.
[+] [-] fish_n_chips|3 years ago|reply
https://ye-olde-cheshire-cheese.co.uk/
[+] [-] vr46|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] buro9|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GentWhoCodes|3 years ago|reply
It occurred to me that many of us in Blighty will pop out this lunchtime for a pint and a bite to eat in a pub older than the USA.
[+] [-] habosa|3 years ago|reply
The reason it doesn’t look as old as they say is because it was rebuilt.
[+] [-] forgotmypw17|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sumo89|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SilverBirch|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] youngNed|3 years ago|reply
Pretty sure at least one other person in the pub had pissed themselves. The two are probably related, and to anyone who has drank around the Bradshawgate in Bolton, this is by no means a reason to disregard a pub.
I eventually regained use of my legs and carefully stumbled home.
11/10
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Olde_Man_%26_Scythe
[+] [-] yesbabyyes|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robaato|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChrisRR|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] choult|3 years ago|reply
There seems to be a suggestion it was "Se Scip" prior to the Restoration in 1663:
https://www.beaconsfieldhistory.org.uk/content/beaconsfield-...
[+] [-] nicky0|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] account-5|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nursie|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] captaincaveman|3 years ago|reply
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g8521445-d2037...
Has some random relationship with Dick Turpin!
[+] [-] k1t|3 years ago|reply
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty_Green,_Penn
[+] [-] OJFord|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] choult|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ggm|3 years ago|reply
Or, be associated either with a monastery or a baronial estate.
[+] [-] mertd|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] egypturnash|3 years ago|reply
It’s currently got a huge picture of an angelic nurse with two face masks on its side. https://www.theoldinnandrestaurant.co.uk/
[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] shyrka|3 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] robotresearcher|3 years ago|reply