Reading this article as a straight man is like listening to a rich friend complain about how they have too many rooms to decorate in their mansion whilst I struggle to make rent in a single bedroom apartment. Particularly this bit
>She recommends that app users stop scrolling and talking to other matches once they have found nine people they feel some level of connection with, and dedicate their time to really trying to get to know those people first.
Oh, stop at nine? Well I'll let you know when I eventually hit nine concurrent matches. Hasn't happened yet, eight years and counting. I'm sure I'll be able to stop scrolling any year now. It's like reading about a different planet.
Men should work on themselves (gym, purpose, income, friends, hobbies), go out, and meet women in real life. Being able to date as a capable man in today's society is hard. You have to be a lot of things and be constantly working on yourself. I have some theories as to why this is, but it's the truth. The top 10% of men in the dating pool end up dating 80% of the women. Most men have no dating or sexual prospects at all - it's very binary.
I'm not stating this to brag but only for context: I get many concurrent matches when I'm on dating apps. I'm wealthy, pretty good looking (but short which is a big hit), and have a lot of hobbies and am in good shape. Overall, I'd say I get ~100x more matches than most guys and actually have girls who slide into my DMs on Twitter and Instagram. I still deleted all of the apps because I'd rather meet women in real life and I'm way happier and suggest all guys do the same for their mental health.
Online dating doesn't compare to real life. Not saying it can't happen (my ex-ex-girlfriend and I met on Hinge and it was great), but it's just not the same. I find I can meet higher-quality women in real life because I can show up with full energy and depth and showcase confidence in a way that's impossible when she's looking at me in a sea of other matches. I also think dating apps are a bad deal for women as well. They meet a bunch of men who will sleep with them but aren't looking to settle down. It's hard for women to judge the real energy and confidence of a guy online. It's just not a great dynamic for both parties IMO unless you're exclusively looking to hook up (which is fine and people should do what they want).
These mainstream media articles on dating seem to almost always be completely absent of a man's perspective. Typically focused entirely on the woman's perspective.
It only means that your (purely online, purely digital) presentation in your dating profile isn't as good as it could be. But whether they like your profile text is almost uncorrelated to the fact whether the same women would enjoy spending time with you in real life.
Plus there's ghostwriters, photoshop, and other services to fix your profile if you really want to. Or did you expect others to actually look in real-life like they look in their photoshopped Face-app-ed Tinder pictures? In that case, you've been comparing yourself to other people's aspirational advertising. There's a reason why even for models the RAW files of their photo-shoots are under NDA.
The most contagious stuff in the world is genuine excitement and happiness. And I'd put pheromones at a close 2nd. But both only work if you do some social group activity in-person with others. In my opinion, social media and online dating exist purely to agree on date/time/location to meet in person.
If you want a relationship take everything lower priority than a relationship, transfer all that time to 50% the gym and 50% to going to physical places where you can talk to real women in meatspace.
Honestly I don't know where else to look. I don't go to church. I have few friends and those I do have do not have any connections to introduce me to people. I choose a poor career for meeting people. No job I've ever had has had many people of the opposite sex in my division. Even now, in my team and a very large company, of the 45 people that I might interact with regularly, 43 are male and while there might be women at work I have no good excuse to talk to any of them.
I'm not saying I want to meet someone at work. But, work is the 2nd most common place to meet someone. Friends are #1 but as I mentioned my friends don't come through here.
Bars don't seem my thing. I am going to a dance event regularly but so far nothing there and even then, I can't talk while I dance as I need to concentrate on getting the moves right (it's a well known style of dance, not just club dancing)
Trying to go to meetups but COVID is still a thing so outdoors only. And it can be burn out on those two because rarely is there anyone I might be interested in. (single, age appropriate, and seem compatible). I know it's a numbers game, I just am running out of ideas on how to increase the numbers.
The apps don't work for me. I get at most 3~4 dates a year out of them. It's better than zero but not by much.
I am with the same girl for half my life, so I might not be totally qualified to answer, but I met most interesting girls outside a work context.
That means: on concerts, on hacking camps, in art exhibitions, especially exhibition openings, on film sets etc. These places reflect my interests of course, so I don't go there because of women, I go there because the stuff there interests me. So for you it could be a sports club, a library, an animal rights organization or any number of other, similar places where people of similar interest gather.
The point is: if you want to get to know people (regardless of their gender) exposing yourself to situations where you actually get the chance to meet new people is a good way to increase your chances. Just like your chances of rolling a 6 increase with every roll of the dice.
The important thing is to do it because you like, not because you expect to find women there.
> Trying to go to meetups but COVID is still a thing so outdoors only
In which country COVID is still a thing that prevents indoors meetings?
Regardless, outdoor there is a world of events happening; it isn't just "indoors". Just check on meetup.com.
> I can't talk while I dance as I need to concentrate on getting the moves right (it's a well known style of dance, not just club dancing)
At social dances, dancers often socialize on the sides of the dance floor, taking a break rather than dancing the whole evening; socializing or not is very much a choice.
> I can't talk while I dance as I need to concentrate on getting the moves right (it's a well known style of dance, not just club dancing)
I recognize that feeling! It took me a long time before it disappeared. Practice helps a lot. And if you forget a move, it's okay to get back to the basic (assuming you are doing a partner dance and not a line dance - I suck at line dances).
I don't know which style of dance you mean. You may consider different dance styles.
I did a bit of ballroom in grad school, then years later learned salsa, then added tango, then some swing and other dance styles (modern, Scottish country, Swedish folk dance).
Each one has a different social scene. Where I lived, tango tends towards older people, and is usually combined with a social/café scene (a milonga). "Older" means 40s and up.
Salsa is more at clubs. As a bouncer once pointed out, he loved the energy of the dancers, but they don't drink much so it doesn't make much revenue for the bar.
It took a couple of years of salsa classes, and dancing salsa elsewhere, before I realized that I didn't like the salsa style my teacher taught, and preferred another studio. So that's also something to consider.
Swing tended to be a younger, more energetic crowd (late teens/20s), with dance events at more specialized locales that had more open space (where I was, that was generally a yoga/dance studio or the OddFellows Hall, which hosted a lot of smaller dance events).
My limited ballroom experience was that the higher levels tend towards ballroom studios. I got the feeling that engineers lean towards ballroom because there are more specific steps and progressions to learn.
The folk dancing scene is pretty laid back. The basics aren't hard to learn, and people will help you with them. It's the most family-friendly of the dances I did, with quieter music, and more often held outside (if the weather is good) because it doesn't need a special dance floor.
For what it's worth, at my peak I was dancing about 25 hours per week. I met my wife at a dance event, held at bar.
Other things I did, to meet people, were local community college classes (as a new resident to the state, I like the local state history course the best; the teacher also hosted a monthly local history event, which I went to - nearly everyone was 55 and older so I was the youngest by far) and Sierra Club hikes.
i started climbing and bouldering recently and while I haven't met anyone romantically (I have no interest in pushing this, I want to do it for the hobby first, and for meeting people second), the group I go with usually has more women than men and in the gyms it seems to be about a 50/50 split so I can easily see how you could meet someone there in the way you imagine.
though I must emphasize not to do it to meet women as the primary purpose, I feel like that's kind of creepy vs. an event that is explicitly for that purpose (like single bars or whatever).
I recommend taking up swing dancing if that's not already the style you're doing (Lindy Hop is great to start with).
The majority of swing dance socials will have very low levels of intoxication (because everyone is there to dance!), and it is a social atmosphere where it is expected and encouraged to introduce yourself to strangers and ask them to dance. If you are a man (or dance the lead role), don't worry about not being able to do so much fancy stuff while you're dancing. Often, experienced followers are perfectly happy to try out individual stylistic variations while the leader holds a nice steady basic.
I'd recommend going with the intention of trying to expand your social circle, and seeing where you end up!
I’m not convinced it’s a pure numbers game, at least from a perspective of long-term success (for what it’s worth, I was averaging 1-2 dates/year until I met my partner). I think it’s much better to have two high-quality dates than dozens of low-quality ones. The advantage of dating apps over more traditional ways of meeting people is that you can much more effectively set up bandpass filters to focus your efforts on interesting people.
I think the best thing you can do is focus on yourself, particularly by cultivating hobbies that you enjoy—bonus points if they’re things you can enjoy alone and with others, because they’re easy inroads and great first dates (worst case you get to spend a bit of time doing something you like!).
The second thing I’d encourage is to get any potential dealbreakers out of the way early (e.g. religion, political views, desires for parenthood, career aspirations). It’s a slow path, but it’s helped me avoid the major pitfalls I’ve seen in my friend’s’ and colleagues’ relationships.
Let me also add, a thing I hate about dating apps is the pressure. At least for me, I meet someone I know nothing about and I feel like I have to decide at every moment "Do I want to be in a relationship with this person?". It feels very unnatural to me. There's a one in a million chance there will be instance chemistry but mostly no, I don't know the person well enough.
Compare to most of the relationships I've had, those were people I knew 6+ months before we got interested in each other. Classmates, co-workers, group friends.
not just for dating, for all kinds of 'network reboot'. doesn't have to be traditional grad school either, any kind of high-investment cohort-based bonding experience should do it
agree with you that hollowing out of local institutions is rough, esp for over-30s post-pan. The web has not done a good job of delivering IRL social networks; tinder is IMO fairly good at this, with the caveat that it's impossible to turn the connections into a true community
>Trying to go to meetups but COVID is still a thing so outdoors only. And it can be burn out on those two because rarely is there anyone I might be interested in. (single, age appropriate, and seem compatible). I know it's a numbers game, I just am running out of ideas on how to increase the numbers.
Few things. First, why is covid still a thing? You can just as easily catch it on a date or at work, just go to the indoor meetups. I'm in a liberal big city in the US and covid isn't a thing anymore. It's been three years. I don't want to die alone, do you? I had long COVID, it sucks, but it's unfortunately not an option.
Second, some meetups have different people going to it in each event. Those are the date targets. But, focus on making friends there, this happens if you go regularly, weekly, to the same ones.
Trying to be helpful: music events - volunteer to help organize. Cycling club. Gardening group, perhaps a local Japanese garden or some such, even just watering potted plants they need volunteers. Book club - really! Dog show if that's your thing. Art classes.
The best locations are in my opinion where people already have lowered guard against getting hit on. For example: grocery store. The problem is that the introverts are not really good at small talk (not saying your are an introvert) and it is hard to come up with an opener.
> I am going to a dance event regularly but so far nothing there and even then, I can't talk while I dance as I need to concentrate on getting the moves right
I usually don't talk while dancing with someone too, but social partnered dancing is how I met my wife. You don't have to be super social, but hopefully you naturally form some friends out dancing you can talk with while you're sitting out a dance. Just the act of being friendly and social with others puts you in the right situation; women usually prefer someone like that to someone sitting by themselves silently.
Yeah I agree about the meetup thing. It can be really hit or miss. Maybe if you pick a good one like hiking or sports. You have to screen out the meetups where there are a lot of retirees or married couples.
> I am going to a dance event regularly but so far nothing there and even then, I can't talk while I dance as I need to concentrate on getting the moves right (it's a well known style of dance, not just club dancing)
Are you doing competitive dancing?
If you’re dancing for fun yet you’re more concerned about dancing “properly” than you are about just socializing, people are probably wondering why you’re taking it so seriously.
> Dating apps just make it easy to connect with potential matches (relative to not having dating app burnouts)
I don't know what's the universal experience regarding this, but for me and other people I know, males are extreme disadvantage in the context of dating apps; this applies also to the app that supposedly reverses the roles.
I have the suspicion that the elephant is the room is that for men, online dating takes many, many hours (I can't quantify, but an hour a day or so, seems the minimum to me) of effort, often for nothing (I definitely know at least one man who's able to game the system, but he's an exception).
This is definitely a recipe for burnout, and it's very specific to online dating . If one wants to find potential mates, any organized activity (sports, etc. - Meetup is perfect) will do; the effort to talk to a potential partner, in that case, is virtually zero.
ITT people who never used dating apps and have been married for years giving their opinion.
Jokes aside... Dating apps suck. Generally so does going on first dates. So does interviewing for a job. So does making new/any friends.
Lots of things are hard and are a numbers game. The nice part is that HOPEFULLY you only have to hit a home run once. You don't have to become an expert at dating. You just have to try enough to meet someone who is as weird and fucked up as you and wants to spend a lot of time being weird and fucked up together.
Women on dating apps have ample choice and thus try to select for the top 10-20% of men on offer. Exactly the type of men that have plenty of choice themselves. It's a kind of a too good to be true deal. You should assume that the very top of men would normally already be taken. They may not have the right motives to be this available. And even if the motive is genuine, you yourself should be an exceptionally attractive woman yourself, in one way or another.
The other 80% of men are pretty much ignored. As a counter reaction, they deploy a dragnet approach. Spamming many low effort messages as any love is good love.
I can’t relate. I found a long-term relationship on Tinder. I found my wife on Tinder. Not to mention the countless flings. The key is to be honest about what you’re looking for (though I found my wife when I “wasn’t looking for anything in particular”)
> Abby, 28, has been on dating apps for eight years […]. A committed user, she can easily spend two or more hours a day piling up matches, […]. Not a single long-term relationship has blossomed from her efforts.
Perhaps if you can’t find what you’re looking for in 8 years and 6000+ man-hours, the problem is you?
Is it the dating app that is responsible, or that people/prospective dates have became much more disposable in general, and no-one really cares?
You probably want to date people in the top 5 or 10% of your target sex/gender/age range. As does everyone else in the expanded pool that people can now access with the internet or the apps. Everyone has probably been told by the apps that they can get someone in the top 5 or 10% of what is available to them, so will feel unhappy with anyone else.
Most women will probably notice this as guys will only want to have sex with them if they are not what guys have been told they 'deserve' by the apps / society, or guys may settle for them if they are content with getting sex. A few will be able to optimally choose a guy or get all of the casual sex that they desire.
Most guys will probably find that no-one wants to connect with them at all without payment, or getting something out of the deal or will be treated as if they don't exist. Things are probably really bad if they are in the bottom 10 to 30% in desirability. A few will be able to optimally choose a woman or get all of of casual sex that they desire.
I am not sure about subcultures / non-cis / non-het groups or situations outside my country as I don't have experience of dating them and don't know how things work.
I am glad to have been in a relationship for all the Tinder years, so I don't have firsthand experience. But I know quite a few people who have become miserable from dating apps. For some, using the apps become a compulsion and they stay up for hours, swiping endlessly, obsessing over their profiles or their potential matches.
Then it changes dating a lot. Before, you often people from your extended social circle. You met people at your hobbies, at uni or even work, or when going out. You could ask common acquaintances to check someone out. And you had at least some kind of social connection.
And dating apps remove all ambiguity. You are not in an innocent everyday situation where you happen to like somebody, you start flirting and you move closer and see what happens. It is clear from the beginning that you are both there looking for something. I would find that immensely stressful, everything becomes a performance. I can't flirt "on cue" and I've heard the same from other people.
I wonder how modern dating would look like if the financial incentives of the app company was not the main driver. Maybe you'd have some "neutral" social network that people use IRL where dating was just an emergent side function? But maybe I'm biased because that's how online dating looked like in my early 20s?
I tried Tinder and Bumble for about a month and they made me feel like shit. I'm a living breathing person and I have to reduce myself into a short text description and some perfect pictures. I don't even take selfies so I'm already faking it! The whole concept is just vain and feels disgusting.
I've simply accepted that I'm going to be single unless something dramatic happens in my life.
As usual with all these trite dating app articles - not a single heterosexual man is represented. It’s always the plight of gay men, straight women, and so forth. Often for these groups - they have abundant choice and are just unable to settle down with the idea they won’t get to date an Instagram model.
For most straight men - dating apps are a form of purgatory and Sisyphusian efforts. The difference is so starkly different compared to all of the other people I know who aren’t straight men. Only straight men I know who don’t have these issues tend to be incredibly physically attractive to the point where they’d have women come up to ask them out on dates everyday. (Unheard of for an average man)
My advice is to pickup activities where women are and that have a natural social element. There are almost none of these btw. Social dancing is about the only one that exists still. The rest of activities out there that are social and involve meeting new people are completely dominated by men. Just brutally so. Most women I know don’t go out to meet new people via social activities like dancing. They go to insular parties, hang out with core group of friends, or stay home and watch Netflix. Very few are truly outgoing and willing to take the leap and meet new people by themselves. I can count on maybe one hand all the women I’ve met who are like that - and I’ve met thousands.
In my area (Lancaster, PA) the quality of women on Tinder is ridiculously low -- basically 100% of them are overweight single mothers without a college education who put cat ears and sparkles on their profile pictures. I have basically no choice but to move.
I was single for a ridiculously long time. Now I'm not.
1) "Looks shouldn't matter!" But they do. You don't need to be a model, but you probably need to be more healthy. I went to the gym almost every morning (missed about 3 days) for a year, got in better shape, etc. Now use a home gym.
2) Be less judgemental. Log, splinter, eye, etc. You're not perfect, so don't expect her to be.
3) Don't be argumentative. The Internet trains western internerds to be argumentative little snots. It's pathetic. Just don't be like that.
4) Ignore the crazy twitter feminists. Actual women like to feel appreciated and respected. Ask about her field of expertise, her hobbies, etc, and appreciate her expertise in those areas.
5) Stay away from chicks with high bodycount. They are a health risk at the very least. If she doesn't respect her body and yours, you're not safe.
"“People just get fatigued. They get overwhelmed with the whole dating process,” said Helen Fisher, a biological anthropologist who is a senior research fellow with the Kinsey Institute and chief science adviser to Match.com."
I don't think this is dating app burnout, this is just dating burnout. Dating apps just make it easy to connect with potential matches (relative to not having dating app burnouts). And if you have dating burnout, take a break from dating! It's nice to just be ok with being single sometimes and enjoy other aspects of life.
"Before she deleted the apps, she spent any moments of downtime swiping; after, she found she had time throughout the day to rest.
...
But Dr. Turban believes that for some, simply deleting the apps is not enough. “It’s important to understand why the apps are causing problems for you,” he said, adding that therapists can be helpful for sorting these answers out. “Are you using the apps to self-soothe anxiety and inadvertently making your anxiety worse? Are you afraid you can’t attain love, so you’re settling for hookups, and that’s making you unhappy?”
...
“People binge, and that is what exhausts them,”
"
Now this does represent burnout of dating apps, and is a result of just not using them with patience and reflection as to the emotions you associate with them.
I generally view dating apps very positively (they, and in particular OkCupid, have led to numerous good relationships and friends) but as with anything it's possible to use them in an unhealthy way.
It's crazy how detrimental dating apps like Hinge has been for my mental health these last 6-8 months. I'm relatively pretty good-looking as an early 20s male and I've been on multiple dates but women always have the opportunity to "find someone better". I haven't been able to find a serious partner at all and I might be due to how long I have been out of the dating game but all this liking and swiping makes me so self-conscious and insecure.
I've also started balding since I was 20 and it puts that much more pressure on me to find someone through these apps. It's so unhealthy but I don't know what to do anymore. Male pattern baldness is a horrible disease especially since it is genetic and not something that can necessarily be stopped, just slowed down by medications that aren't even effective for me, lol. I hate to think like this but it makes me mad that there are unhealthy and overweight individuals out there with great genetics and I'm just sitting here losing my hair at an unfair age even though I'm very health-conscious and fit.
I know for a fact I will have no luck with dating apps if I shave my head and go bald in my early 20s and I might as well give up now. At least when I know that when I go bald by 25 or 26, I can at least delete the apps and maybe I will feel relieved?(probably not)
>She recommends that app users stop scrolling and talking to other matches once they have found nine people they feel some level of connection with, and dedicate their time to really trying to get to know those people first.
I've been married coming up on 20 years, so I'm well out of the game. I do however see a lot memes, tiktok videos from women about "creepy men" daring to ask them out in real life.
I'm sure some men are creeps, but if you don't want people to speak to you in real life, then apps are your only option.
Maybe I'm just yelling at clouds here, but my reaction was "no shit."
I met my wife at a running club. Of my friend group, most met while active in sports or other activities. A few were introduced by common friends on a "you might like so-and-so" basis. And a few met in college. I'm only aware of two couples in my extended friend group who met using dating apps - and both of those were premium subscription models, not freebie Tinder-like apps.
Dating apps strike me as a very low-quality (low fidelity?) way to match couples.
[+] [-] antonymy|3 years ago|reply
>She recommends that app users stop scrolling and talking to other matches once they have found nine people they feel some level of connection with, and dedicate their time to really trying to get to know those people first.
Oh, stop at nine? Well I'll let you know when I eventually hit nine concurrent matches. Hasn't happened yet, eight years and counting. I'm sure I'll be able to stop scrolling any year now. It's like reading about a different planet.
[+] [-] vhiremath4|3 years ago|reply
I'm not stating this to brag but only for context: I get many concurrent matches when I'm on dating apps. I'm wealthy, pretty good looking (but short which is a big hit), and have a lot of hobbies and am in good shape. Overall, I'd say I get ~100x more matches than most guys and actually have girls who slide into my DMs on Twitter and Instagram. I still deleted all of the apps because I'd rather meet women in real life and I'm way happier and suggest all guys do the same for their mental health.
Online dating doesn't compare to real life. Not saying it can't happen (my ex-ex-girlfriend and I met on Hinge and it was great), but it's just not the same. I find I can meet higher-quality women in real life because I can show up with full energy and depth and showcase confidence in a way that's impossible when she's looking at me in a sea of other matches. I also think dating apps are a bad deal for women as well. They meet a bunch of men who will sleep with them but aren't looking to settle down. It's hard for women to judge the real energy and confidence of a guy online. It's just not a great dynamic for both parties IMO unless you're exclusively looking to hook up (which is fine and people should do what they want).
[+] [-] pcbro141|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fxtentacle|3 years ago|reply
It only means that your (purely online, purely digital) presentation in your dating profile isn't as good as it could be. But whether they like your profile text is almost uncorrelated to the fact whether the same women would enjoy spending time with you in real life.
Plus there's ghostwriters, photoshop, and other services to fix your profile if you really want to. Or did you expect others to actually look in real-life like they look in their photoshopped Face-app-ed Tinder pictures? In that case, you've been comparing yourself to other people's aspirational advertising. There's a reason why even for models the RAW files of their photo-shoots are under NDA.
The most contagious stuff in the world is genuine excitement and happiness. And I'd put pheromones at a close 2nd. But both only work if you do some social group activity in-person with others. In my opinion, social media and online dating exist purely to agree on date/time/location to meet in person.
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[+] [-] gernb|3 years ago|reply
I'm not saying I want to meet someone at work. But, work is the 2nd most common place to meet someone. Friends are #1 but as I mentioned my friends don't come through here.
Bars don't seem my thing. I am going to a dance event regularly but so far nothing there and even then, I can't talk while I dance as I need to concentrate on getting the moves right (it's a well known style of dance, not just club dancing)
Trying to go to meetups but COVID is still a thing so outdoors only. And it can be burn out on those two because rarely is there anyone I might be interested in. (single, age appropriate, and seem compatible). I know it's a numbers game, I just am running out of ideas on how to increase the numbers.
The apps don't work for me. I get at most 3~4 dates a year out of them. It's better than zero but not by much.
[+] [-] atoav|3 years ago|reply
That means: on concerts, on hacking camps, in art exhibitions, especially exhibition openings, on film sets etc. These places reflect my interests of course, so I don't go there because of women, I go there because the stuff there interests me. So for you it could be a sports club, a library, an animal rights organization or any number of other, similar places where people of similar interest gather.
The point is: if you want to get to know people (regardless of their gender) exposing yourself to situations where you actually get the chance to meet new people is a good way to increase your chances. Just like your chances of rolling a 6 increase with every roll of the dice.
The important thing is to do it because you like, not because you expect to find women there.
[+] [-] pizza234|3 years ago|reply
In which country COVID is still a thing that prevents indoors meetings?
Regardless, outdoor there is a world of events happening; it isn't just "indoors". Just check on meetup.com.
> I can't talk while I dance as I need to concentrate on getting the moves right (it's a well known style of dance, not just club dancing)
At social dances, dancers often socialize on the sides of the dance floor, taking a break rather than dancing the whole evening; socializing or not is very much a choice.
[+] [-] sgjohnson|3 years ago|reply
Consider paying for them. From a male perspective, it’s strictly a numbers game.
Tinder Platinum did wonders for me. Saves your time, and gets you pushed higher in the stack of the cards, which leads to more matches.
[+] [-] dalke|3 years ago|reply
I recognize that feeling! It took me a long time before it disappeared. Practice helps a lot. And if you forget a move, it's okay to get back to the basic (assuming you are doing a partner dance and not a line dance - I suck at line dances).
I don't know which style of dance you mean. You may consider different dance styles.
I did a bit of ballroom in grad school, then years later learned salsa, then added tango, then some swing and other dance styles (modern, Scottish country, Swedish folk dance).
Each one has a different social scene. Where I lived, tango tends towards older people, and is usually combined with a social/café scene (a milonga). "Older" means 40s and up.
Salsa is more at clubs. As a bouncer once pointed out, he loved the energy of the dancers, but they don't drink much so it doesn't make much revenue for the bar.
It took a couple of years of salsa classes, and dancing salsa elsewhere, before I realized that I didn't like the salsa style my teacher taught, and preferred another studio. So that's also something to consider.
Swing tended to be a younger, more energetic crowd (late teens/20s), with dance events at more specialized locales that had more open space (where I was, that was generally a yoga/dance studio or the OddFellows Hall, which hosted a lot of smaller dance events).
My limited ballroom experience was that the higher levels tend towards ballroom studios. I got the feeling that engineers lean towards ballroom because there are more specific steps and progressions to learn.
The folk dancing scene is pretty laid back. The basics aren't hard to learn, and people will help you with them. It's the most family-friendly of the dances I did, with quieter music, and more often held outside (if the weather is good) because it doesn't need a special dance floor.
For what it's worth, at my peak I was dancing about 25 hours per week. I met my wife at a dance event, held at bar.
Other things I did, to meet people, were local community college classes (as a new resident to the state, I like the local state history course the best; the teacher also hosted a monthly local history event, which I went to - nearly everyone was 55 and older so I was the youngest by far) and Sierra Club hikes.
[+] [-] fartsucker69|3 years ago|reply
i started climbing and bouldering recently and while I haven't met anyone romantically (I have no interest in pushing this, I want to do it for the hobby first, and for meeting people second), the group I go with usually has more women than men and in the gyms it seems to be about a 50/50 split so I can easily see how you could meet someone there in the way you imagine.
though I must emphasize not to do it to meet women as the primary purpose, I feel like that's kind of creepy vs. an event that is explicitly for that purpose (like single bars or whatever).
[+] [-] vorpalhex|3 years ago|reply
Drinking alcohol at the alcohol place is not an interesting thing.
[+] [-] bsnnkv|3 years ago|reply
The majority of swing dance socials will have very low levels of intoxication (because everyone is there to dance!), and it is a social atmosphere where it is expected and encouraged to introduce yourself to strangers and ask them to dance. If you are a man (or dance the lead role), don't worry about not being able to do so much fancy stuff while you're dancing. Often, experienced followers are perfectly happy to try out individual stylistic variations while the leader holds a nice steady basic.
I'd recommend going with the intention of trying to expand your social circle, and seeing where you end up!
> dance
[+] [-] scarier|3 years ago|reply
I think the best thing you can do is focus on yourself, particularly by cultivating hobbies that you enjoy—bonus points if they’re things you can enjoy alone and with others, because they’re easy inroads and great first dates (worst case you get to spend a bit of time doing something you like!).
The second thing I’d encourage is to get any potential dealbreakers out of the way early (e.g. religion, political views, desires for parenthood, career aspirations). It’s a slow path, but it’s helped me avoid the major pitfalls I’ve seen in my friend’s’ and colleagues’ relationships.
[+] [-] gernb|3 years ago|reply
Compare to most of the relationships I've had, those were people I knew 6+ months before we got interested in each other. Classmates, co-workers, group friends.
[+] [-] awinter-py|3 years ago|reply
not just for dating, for all kinds of 'network reboot'. doesn't have to be traditional grad school either, any kind of high-investment cohort-based bonding experience should do it
agree with you that hollowing out of local institutions is rough, esp for over-30s post-pan. The web has not done a good job of delivering IRL social networks; tinder is IMO fairly good at this, with the caveat that it's impossible to turn the connections into a true community
[+] [-] mancerayder|3 years ago|reply
Few things. First, why is covid still a thing? You can just as easily catch it on a date or at work, just go to the indoor meetups. I'm in a liberal big city in the US and covid isn't a thing anymore. It's been three years. I don't want to die alone, do you? I had long COVID, it sucks, but it's unfortunately not an option.
Second, some meetups have different people going to it in each event. Those are the date targets. But, focus on making friends there, this happens if you go regularly, weekly, to the same ones.
[+] [-] langitbiru|3 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/ch402/status/1564631228166201345
https://twitter.com/TwtJodohMY
[+] [-] hypertele-Xii|3 years ago|reply
So you do know where to look, you just don't want to look there.
[+] [-] cafard|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JoeAltmaier|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] StreamBright|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inkcapmushroom|3 years ago|reply
I usually don't talk while dancing with someone too, but social partnered dancing is how I met my wife. You don't have to be super social, but hopefully you naturally form some friends out dancing you can talk with while you're sitting out a dance. Just the act of being friendly and social with others puts you in the right situation; women usually prefer someone like that to someone sitting by themselves silently.
[+] [-] analogcollector|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tiktaalik|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grapeskin|3 years ago|reply
Are you doing competitive dancing?
If you’re dancing for fun yet you’re more concerned about dancing “properly” than you are about just socializing, people are probably wondering why you’re taking it so seriously.
[+] [-] m463|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pizza234|3 years ago|reply
I don't know what's the universal experience regarding this, but for me and other people I know, males are extreme disadvantage in the context of dating apps; this applies also to the app that supposedly reverses the roles.
I have the suspicion that the elephant is the room is that for men, online dating takes many, many hours (I can't quantify, but an hour a day or so, seems the minimum to me) of effort, often for nothing (I definitely know at least one man who's able to game the system, but he's an exception).
This is definitely a recipe for burnout, and it's very specific to online dating . If one wants to find potential mates, any organized activity (sports, etc. - Meetup is perfect) will do; the effort to talk to a potential partner, in that case, is virtually zero.
[+] [-] AlwaysRock|3 years ago|reply
Jokes aside... Dating apps suck. Generally so does going on first dates. So does interviewing for a job. So does making new/any friends.
Lots of things are hard and are a numbers game. The nice part is that HOPEFULLY you only have to hit a home run once. You don't have to become an expert at dating. You just have to try enough to meet someone who is as weird and fucked up as you and wants to spend a lot of time being weird and fucked up together.
[+] [-] fleddr|3 years ago|reply
The other 80% of men are pretty much ignored. As a counter reaction, they deploy a dragnet approach. Spamming many low effort messages as any love is good love.
Painting with a broad brush here, obviously.
[+] [-] sgjohnson|3 years ago|reply
> Abby, 28, has been on dating apps for eight years […]. A committed user, she can easily spend two or more hours a day piling up matches, […]. Not a single long-term relationship has blossomed from her efforts.
Perhaps if you can’t find what you’re looking for in 8 years and 6000+ man-hours, the problem is you?
[+] [-] quacksilver|3 years ago|reply
You probably want to date people in the top 5 or 10% of your target sex/gender/age range. As does everyone else in the expanded pool that people can now access with the internet or the apps. Everyone has probably been told by the apps that they can get someone in the top 5 or 10% of what is available to them, so will feel unhappy with anyone else.
Most women will probably notice this as guys will only want to have sex with them if they are not what guys have been told they 'deserve' by the apps / society, or guys may settle for them if they are content with getting sex. A few will be able to optimally choose a guy or get all of the casual sex that they desire.
Most guys will probably find that no-one wants to connect with them at all without payment, or getting something out of the deal or will be treated as if they don't exist. Things are probably really bad if they are in the bottom 10 to 30% in desirability. A few will be able to optimally choose a woman or get all of of casual sex that they desire.
I am not sure about subcultures / non-cis / non-het groups or situations outside my country as I don't have experience of dating them and don't know how things work.
[+] [-] captainmuon|3 years ago|reply
Then it changes dating a lot. Before, you often people from your extended social circle. You met people at your hobbies, at uni or even work, or when going out. You could ask common acquaintances to check someone out. And you had at least some kind of social connection.
And dating apps remove all ambiguity. You are not in an innocent everyday situation where you happen to like somebody, you start flirting and you move closer and see what happens. It is clear from the beginning that you are both there looking for something. I would find that immensely stressful, everything becomes a performance. I can't flirt "on cue" and I've heard the same from other people.
I wonder how modern dating would look like if the financial incentives of the app company was not the main driver. Maybe you'd have some "neutral" social network that people use IRL where dating was just an emergent side function? But maybe I'm biased because that's how online dating looked like in my early 20s?
[+] [-] c7DJTLrn|3 years ago|reply
I've simply accepted that I'm going to be single unless something dramatic happens in my life.
[+] [-] bradlys|3 years ago|reply
For most straight men - dating apps are a form of purgatory and Sisyphusian efforts. The difference is so starkly different compared to all of the other people I know who aren’t straight men. Only straight men I know who don’t have these issues tend to be incredibly physically attractive to the point where they’d have women come up to ask them out on dates everyday. (Unheard of for an average man)
My advice is to pickup activities where women are and that have a natural social element. There are almost none of these btw. Social dancing is about the only one that exists still. The rest of activities out there that are social and involve meeting new people are completely dominated by men. Just brutally so. Most women I know don’t go out to meet new people via social activities like dancing. They go to insular parties, hang out with core group of friends, or stay home and watch Netflix. Very few are truly outgoing and willing to take the leap and meet new people by themselves. I can count on maybe one hand all the women I’ve met who are like that - and I’ve met thousands.
[+] [-] jononomo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 10g1k|3 years ago|reply
1) "Looks shouldn't matter!" But they do. You don't need to be a model, but you probably need to be more healthy. I went to the gym almost every morning (missed about 3 days) for a year, got in better shape, etc. Now use a home gym.
2) Be less judgemental. Log, splinter, eye, etc. You're not perfect, so don't expect her to be.
3) Don't be argumentative. The Internet trains western internerds to be argumentative little snots. It's pathetic. Just don't be like that.
4) Ignore the crazy twitter feminists. Actual women like to feel appreciated and respected. Ask about her field of expertise, her hobbies, etc, and appreciate her expertise in those areas.
5) Stay away from chicks with high bodycount. They are a health risk at the very least. If she doesn't respect her body and yours, you're not safe.
6) Have goals and work at advancing your life.
[+] [-] andreyk|3 years ago|reply
I don't think this is dating app burnout, this is just dating burnout. Dating apps just make it easy to connect with potential matches (relative to not having dating app burnouts). And if you have dating burnout, take a break from dating! It's nice to just be ok with being single sometimes and enjoy other aspects of life.
"Before she deleted the apps, she spent any moments of downtime swiping; after, she found she had time throughout the day to rest. ... But Dr. Turban believes that for some, simply deleting the apps is not enough. “It’s important to understand why the apps are causing problems for you,” he said, adding that therapists can be helpful for sorting these answers out. “Are you using the apps to self-soothe anxiety and inadvertently making your anxiety worse? Are you afraid you can’t attain love, so you’re settling for hookups, and that’s making you unhappy?” ... “People binge, and that is what exhausts them,” "
Now this does represent burnout of dating apps, and is a result of just not using them with patience and reflection as to the emotions you associate with them.
I generally view dating apps very positively (they, and in particular OkCupid, have led to numerous good relationships and friends) but as with anything it's possible to use them in an unhealthy way.
[+] [-] nightlyhawk|3 years ago|reply
I've also started balding since I was 20 and it puts that much more pressure on me to find someone through these apps. It's so unhealthy but I don't know what to do anymore. Male pattern baldness is a horrible disease especially since it is genetic and not something that can necessarily be stopped, just slowed down by medications that aren't even effective for me, lol. I hate to think like this but it makes me mad that there are unhealthy and overweight individuals out there with great genetics and I'm just sitting here losing my hair at an unfair age even though I'm very health-conscious and fit.
I know for a fact I will have no luck with dating apps if I shave my head and go bald in my early 20s and I might as well give up now. At least when I know that when I go bald by 25 or 26, I can at least delete the apps and maybe I will feel relieved?(probably not)
[+] [-] claytongulick|3 years ago|reply
Inevitably when I ask them about their height filters they look at me like I'm dumb and say "oh, only 5' 11" or above, duh".
My wife, who is 5' 2" told me she did the same thing and would have never met me online (I'm 5' 9" in tall boots).
[+] [-] dendriti|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yamrzou|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stayfrosty420|3 years ago|reply
That really seems like quite a lot to me...
[+] [-] gadders|3 years ago|reply
I'm sure some men are creeps, but if you don't want people to speak to you in real life, then apps are your only option.
[+] [-] alistairSH|3 years ago|reply
I met my wife at a running club. Of my friend group, most met while active in sports or other activities. A few were introduced by common friends on a "you might like so-and-so" basis. And a few met in college. I'm only aware of two couples in my extended friend group who met using dating apps - and both of those were premium subscription models, not freebie Tinder-like apps.
Dating apps strike me as a very low-quality (low fidelity?) way to match couples.