I have always been a football fan but when I was in college I lived in the Football dorm and it changed how I saw the game forever. (Back story, I lived in those dorms because I'm a big guy and the coach wanted me to play for the team. I told him yeah because I noticed that at registration all of the Football players were able to skip in line. I never did play because I loved Basketball more than Football at the time).
Anyway, when you live around Football players 24/7 you start to learn facets of the game that you never knew about. You learn what every position is doing on every play and why they are doing it.Now when I watch Football it is more like a game of chess than a brutal grudge match. The real excitement in the game comes from watching the linemen and not the skilled positions.
On another side note, you would think that all of this football knowledge would help actual players when playing Madden (That was all that was played in those dorms. Hours and hours of Madden). It does but only to a certain extent. Football players take Madden too literally and try to play it as a simulation. They forget the video game part. I would use that to my advantage all of the time.
There a few things that are starting to bleed from the madden into the real life game. Time management is one of them. I can't remember who it was but a few years ago a player was running for the ends zone and had a huge lead on the defense, 1 yard from the end zone he started running sideways draining as much clock as possible, assuring no come back from the opposite team.
I saw I believe Leon Washington for the Jaguars pull a similar stunt once, the D seemed to be giving him a free TD at the end of the game but he preferred to just take a knee right before the end zone. With the new Canadian Football rule requiring contact to end the play the D lost a few seconds not reacting fast enough (first year it was implemented I believe) thinking he was down.
The game is also teaching much better strategy to players, getting them to understand more than their position.
The poll says "The NFL is evaluating an online streaming product providing consumers with exclusive Coaches Film footage of all 22 players on the field for every play and game."
I used to watch NHL hockey when I was a kid. Then I started going to college hockey games, and that was great, but a terrible side effect is that I've never
been able to enjoy TV hockey in quite the same way. Those players off the screen are really important.
The advent of HDTV has done a lot to fix this for hockey, where the rink is not so huge. But it would be awesome to have full-field perspective on football.
I agree that most sports are better live. The problem is that NFL games have so many TV timeouts now that watching NFL games live gets boring. There is so much downtime, that it's not worth the $100+ for a ticket anymore.
The first time I went to a NHL game and sat behind the goal it was a revelation - the positioning, the tactics, everything becomes so clear when you see the entire rink isometrically.
I have a slightly different problem... I grew up watching WHL games. When I tried to watch NHL games on TV, I got bored waiting for the good hits and fights.
You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this:
What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below.
The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be either a run or a pass.
_The offense_
1. First pick out the number of tight ends and their position on the offensive line. This will tell you what base formation the offense is "telegraphing" to the defense. 2 or more tight ends implies that the offense is showing "run" unless its the damn Patriots of 2010.
2. Look at where the running backs are - the full back and the half back. This along with the above, will give you an idea of whether the offense is hedging towards a run or a pass. If they are in line, in front of the QB then you can safely assume a pass or trick play.
3. Next the formation of the wide recievers. Are they split, with a slot or are they bunched on one side.
_The defense_
1. Due to camera angles you wont be able to see some of the players on the defense. But its okay because you can workout where they would be (except for how deep they are playing) based on the offensive formation.
2. The rectangular area in front of the offensive line is called "the box". This is where the running back is expected to try to make a run. Count the number of players in the box. A fast way is to group the players in 3s going from bottom edge of the offensive line to the top.
The number of players in the box will tell you what the defense is showing the offense. If the number of players is >=8 then the defense is expecting a run.
Using the following formula, you'll be able to figure out the number of safeties.
Number of safeties = 11 - (the number of players in the box + the number of wider receivers on offense )
_Position of the safeties_
* 2 Safeties
If you've figured out there are two safeties then this implies that the defense is looking to take away big passing plays but give up the middle of the field.
This will usually be a cover-2 formation or a derivative. If you see that a line-backer is cheating towards the safeties then you know its tampa-2.
* 1 Safety
If there's only one single safety then this usually means that the defense is being aggressive, ie they want to blitz, or are showing that they are expecting a run.
_Blitz_
If the number of players on the line of scrimmage for the defense outnumbers the number of players on the offensive and in the vicinity of the QB then this implies the defense is showing a blitz. Picking out the blitzing player is a lot of fun when watching the Jets, Eagles or Ravens play.
Player in motion
On a passing play, most teams will use the player in motion to figure out if the defense is in zone or man coverage. (They are mostly always in zones but do use man coverage to shake things up.)
So as the offensive player in motion moves, watch who covers him. Does he get handed off from one player to another on the defense or does the same defensive player follow him as he moves from one side of the field to the next. If the same player moves to cover the man in motion then it usually implies that the defense is playing a man-coverage. If the man in motion is handed off between players then this usually implies a zone.
Of course there could be special cases in which the defense chooses man/zone depending on which player is in motion at the time of the snap.
_Exercises_
How do you know if your seeing/understanding enough of the action:
1. On regular plays you should be able to see the "hold penalty" at the same time as it happens and before the commentator explains it on TV.
2. You should be able to call some percentage of the plays as you get familiar with understanding the strategy your team plays as well as the play callers idiosyncrasies and the players who get the most attention on the team.
3. Figure out if the defense is in a zone or man coverage. This will take a while because most defenses dont run a scheme which is instantly recognizable.
As you enjoy more aspects of the game, you'll realize the true brilliance of Peyton Manning, the genius of Rex Ryan and you'll be baffled by how precise these NFL plays are.
These are the basics and there is so much more happening on the field. If you have any questions then please ask them here and I'll update this answer.
Here's a question: Where can I buy the equivalent of this post, but in video form with actual illustrative game footage?
I've wanted to see that for some time. Want it for every sport on earth, really.
I've thought about trying to watch a bunch of coaching videos for my sport of choice, but was never sure it would help. They aren't designed for me. I don't need to know how to think like an above-average high-school coach or player; I want to admire the work of top-level pros.
Your information is interesting and useful, but I am inferring that you're saying that we don't need an expanded view. If this your point, then I disagree with you.
There's a lot you can't see with the standard TV view that you get, and sure you can discern some things, but as the article says, a lot of the plays happen off camera, because the view is centered around the QB. You can see the QB throw the ball, and you can see running plays but you get no information on longer plays, or how the defense actually works.
As the article says, watching what's happening in the secondary has become a lot more important given that the NFL basically wants to turn itself into a passing league. More and more often, the action happens off camera and you only get a better view on replays.
The one thing I like about watching Sunday Night Football on NBC online is that you can actually change the view to the "Madden" view, so that you're right behind the QB and you can see the entire field. This gives a lot better insight into what the QB sees, and there you can really appreciate things like how even 1-2 feet of separation gives a skilled QB just enough space to throw a well placed ball away from the defender, etc.
Watch the offensive linemen. If any one of them fires forward and crosses the line of scrimmage, it's a run. If either guard (guys to either side of the center) starts running to one side or the other, the play is almost certainly going that way. If the offensive linemen stand up and move backwards, it's probably a pass.
The quarterback and running back do a lot of things to disguise which way the play is going, but you can almost always tell what kind of play the offense is running by watching the offensive linemen.
> If they are in line, in front of the QB then you can safely assume a pass or trick play.
Not really, since defenses can see the same thing and know a team's tendencies from scouting. A better indication of pass vs. run is how far the tailback lines up behind scrimmage. For run plays, the RB tends to line up about 6-7 yards behind scrimmage to they can get up a head of steam as they go through the line. For pass and play-action the tailbacks line up closer (around 5 yards) so they can sneak through the line for pass routes or quickly block blitzers. It's harder for defenses on the field to see if a RB is lining up 5 yards deep vs 7 yards deep.
>* 2 Safeties
If you've figured out there are two safeties then this implies that the defense is looking to take away big passing plays but give up the middle of the field.
2 safeties is pretty standard and is just as much a run stopping defense. For example the corners in man on the exterior with the safeties in man on the interior is a run stopping defense. Backers often cover the apex or a safety roles to the center taking away the middle. Nice overal explanation but the strategy in football is to "show" one thing and do another which is why a pre-snap read only goes so far.
>> You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this:
You've posted some great information here, but actually viewing all 22 players from a birds-eye-view affords an exponentially superior quality of analysis.
What's the reason for keeping the footage out of the public's hands? "Proprietary NFL coaching information" doesn't really explain it. Are the NFL making money off the teams by cutting them a special deal of All-22 footage of their own games, and opponents?
It's basically the "data", in that when you have the all-22 view, you can extract the full player-locations-at-each-time data set reasonably well using computer-vision techniques. It seems reasonable to believe that that data is potentially valuable and/or sensitive, even if they aren't 100% sure what they want to do with it yet.
The NFL's lawyers stated the NFL competes in the "entertainment marketplace" (http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?renderfor...) and operates as a single entity, not as 32 teams. The NFL makes a large portion of its revenue from television, and ratings are higher on close, competitive games.
What prevents owners from keeping the games close or trading wins/losses now to help a storyline in exchange for markers for future wins when they're on a championship track?
While it is illegal to fix sporting events for gambling purposes, evidently you can fix sports for entertainment purposes. The All 22 footage would make this more difficult because this type of stuff would be easier for fans to detect.
What's the reason for keeping the footage out of the public's hands?
Couldn't it be as simple as wanting to preserve some value for the fans who actually buy tickets?
In any case, if this footage is so valuable, why can't somebody with a good camera phone buy a seat in the nosebleed section, set up a tripod, and charge for the stream?
If college or Canadian football started doing it and fans responded extremely positively and started asking for/expecting it elsewhere, that could force the NFL's hand a bit. The XFL's crazy wire camera rigs almost immediately made their way into the NFL, so there's at least a little precedent.
Conversely, if the NFL released this footage, competing leagues could analyze NFL tactics and raise their level of play. So it really is a competitive advantage.
Seems like there's an opportunity here - how difficult would it be for a fan to video / stream the "all-22" from high angle (read nosebleed) seats? I've brought my Laptop and SLR into football and baseball games (Oakland), so they aren't that strict about allowing media/comms equipment in.
Amusingly, baseball broadcasts would also benefit from a broader view.
Televised baseball consists almost entirely of views of the pitcher and the batter, and only turns somewhere else to show where the ball ended up or to focus on a runner who's doing something.
And that misses out on so much of the actual game. The standard view from center field, looking at the pitcher and the batter, can't show you an infield shift. It can't show you how deep the outfielders are playing. It can't show you players reacting to signs from managers and coaches. It can't show you anything except one tiny portion of what's actually happening on the field.
And so you can't really understand why things happen the way they do -- somebody hit a little bloop single into right field? Maybe it was poor defense that allowed it to happen, but maybe there was a shift on and the outfield was playing deep. You don't know, and won't see, any of that in a televised game.
I am pretty sure the NFL would shut down any distribution very quickly - not sure how much of an opportunity there is if it blatantly violates someone's IP rights. What I don't understand is why the NFL wouldn't use it to generate more revenue. Do they really think the criticism would be any worse than it is today with 24/7 sports talk and online message boards? Why not have the criticism be more grounded in reality?
That would work for about 20 minutes until they find out your location and throw the book at you for broadcasting a copyrighted event.
You got an SLR in, but try "filming" a game with it - you'll be stopped in under 10 minutes, I promise you
Also, that isn't like the streaming sites where you can be at a desk in Sweden and re-broadcasting games fairly anonymously... they'd just walk up to your seat and escort you out.
The leagues would take you to court if you tried to openly sell that vision. There's a reason that they have the "expressed written consent" message tacked on to every broadcast.
It sounds extremely challenging, but could someone use image detection to process the existing camera angles and use the field markers to recreate an overhead view of the game? If it worked, you could probably use that to do some interesting play analyses over a large number of games.
I think the point isn't specifically about the overhead angle, it's that the existing camera angles don't show some of the players (who may be moving in ways that are relevant to the overall strategy, but their movements aren't sufficiently telegenic to bother showing them on TV).
I'd be willing to have a stab that the people who really don't want the public with this footage are the sports bookies offering point spreads/line betting.
The bookmakers would already have access to this footage, because it is a competitive edge over the public. If the public suddenly had access to the all 22, there might be a correction in those betting markets.
And if the bookmakers don't have access to the footage? Could be an opportunity to capitalise on their in-efficiency ;)
Does anyone else just see this as them gauging interest in charging for this footage? Some of the wording almost makes it sound like a market segmentation strategy.
Well, this is why NFL Films and the old programs they produced in the 70's and 80's are so cool. NFL Films had it all. Every angle, every sound plus the all-22. They could do the full analysis. And their choice of music was, in retrospect, brilliant. I can watch those old programs year after year. Somehow I never get tired of them.
While ESPN has some problems, I'm not going to complain about them as the only way I can watch my College team play while in Canada is through their espnplayer.com service. My wife thinks I'm crazy for paying for it but hell it's an addiction. If I can't be in the stadium I have to see every play somehow. (I'm sure I'm not the only one watching then end of the game when loosing by 50 points right? )
[+] [-] loso|14 years ago|reply
Anyway, when you live around Football players 24/7 you start to learn facets of the game that you never knew about. You learn what every position is doing on every play and why they are doing it.Now when I watch Football it is more like a game of chess than a brutal grudge match. The real excitement in the game comes from watching the linemen and not the skilled positions.
On another side note, you would think that all of this football knowledge would help actual players when playing Madden (That was all that was played in those dorms. Hours and hours of Madden). It does but only to a certain extent. Football players take Madden too literally and try to play it as a simulation. They forget the video game part. I would use that to my advantage all of the time.
[+] [-] nkassis|14 years ago|reply
I saw I believe Leon Washington for the Jaguars pull a similar stunt once, the D seemed to be giving him a free TD at the end of the game but he preferred to just take a knee right before the end zone. With the new Canadian Football rule requiring contact to end the play the D lost a few seconds not reacting fast enough (first year it was implemented I believe) thinking he was down.
The game is also teaching much better strategy to players, getting them to understand more than their position.
[+] [-] freshrap6|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flyt|14 years ago|reply
In case it gets pulled, here's the attached image: http://cl.ly/3e1m1b0x1L410V0I1i0h
The poll says "The NFL is evaluating an online streaming product providing consumers with exclusive Coaches Film footage of all 22 players on the field for every play and game."
The whole survey: http://cl.ly/1Q3R0h1L161b3J1a2J3u
[+] [-] bumbledraven|14 years ago|reply
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/features/200...
A bit more from Football Outsiders: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2006/too-deep-z...
[+] [-] mechanical_fish|14 years ago|reply
The advent of HDTV has done a lot to fix this for hockey, where the rink is not so huge. But it would be awesome to have full-field perspective on football.
[+] [-] adestefan|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] redacted|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tallanvor|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] keeptrying|14 years ago|reply
What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below.
The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be either a run or a pass.
_The offense_
1. First pick out the number of tight ends and their position on the offensive line. This will tell you what base formation the offense is "telegraphing" to the defense. 2 or more tight ends implies that the offense is showing "run" unless its the damn Patriots of 2010.
2. Look at where the running backs are - the full back and the half back. This along with the above, will give you an idea of whether the offense is hedging towards a run or a pass. If they are in line, in front of the QB then you can safely assume a pass or trick play.
3. Next the formation of the wide recievers. Are they split, with a slot or are they bunched on one side.
_The defense_
1. Due to camera angles you wont be able to see some of the players on the defense. But its okay because you can workout where they would be (except for how deep they are playing) based on the offensive formation.
2. The rectangular area in front of the offensive line is called "the box". This is where the running back is expected to try to make a run. Count the number of players in the box. A fast way is to group the players in 3s going from bottom edge of the offensive line to the top.
The number of players in the box will tell you what the defense is showing the offense. If the number of players is >=8 then the defense is expecting a run.
Using the following formula, you'll be able to figure out the number of safeties.
Number of safeties = 11 - (the number of players in the box + the number of wider receivers on offense )
_Position of the safeties_
* 2 Safeties
If you've figured out there are two safeties then this implies that the defense is looking to take away big passing plays but give up the middle of the field. This will usually be a cover-2 formation or a derivative. If you see that a line-backer is cheating towards the safeties then you know its tampa-2.
* 1 Safety
If there's only one single safety then this usually means that the defense is being aggressive, ie they want to blitz, or are showing that they are expecting a run.
_Blitz_
If the number of players on the line of scrimmage for the defense outnumbers the number of players on the offensive and in the vicinity of the QB then this implies the defense is showing a blitz. Picking out the blitzing player is a lot of fun when watching the Jets, Eagles or Ravens play.
Player in motion
On a passing play, most teams will use the player in motion to figure out if the defense is in zone or man coverage. (They are mostly always in zones but do use man coverage to shake things up.)
So as the offensive player in motion moves, watch who covers him. Does he get handed off from one player to another on the defense or does the same defensive player follow him as he moves from one side of the field to the next. If the same player moves to cover the man in motion then it usually implies that the defense is playing a man-coverage. If the man in motion is handed off between players then this usually implies a zone.
Of course there could be special cases in which the defense chooses man/zone depending on which player is in motion at the time of the snap.
_Exercises_
How do you know if your seeing/understanding enough of the action:
1. On regular plays you should be able to see the "hold penalty" at the same time as it happens and before the commentator explains it on TV.
2. You should be able to call some percentage of the plays as you get familiar with understanding the strategy your team plays as well as the play callers idiosyncrasies and the players who get the most attention on the team.
3. Figure out if the defense is in a zone or man coverage. This will take a while because most defenses dont run a scheme which is instantly recognizable.
As you enjoy more aspects of the game, you'll realize the true brilliance of Peyton Manning, the genius of Rex Ryan and you'll be baffled by how precise these NFL plays are.
These are the basics and there is so much more happening on the field. If you have any questions then please ask them here and I'll update this answer.
[+] [-] mechanical_fish|14 years ago|reply
Here's a question: Where can I buy the equivalent of this post, but in video form with actual illustrative game footage?
I've wanted to see that for some time. Want it for every sport on earth, really.
I've thought about trying to watch a bunch of coaching videos for my sport of choice, but was never sure it would help. They aren't designed for me. I don't need to know how to think like an above-average high-school coach or player; I want to admire the work of top-level pros.
[+] [-] steve8918|14 years ago|reply
There's a lot you can't see with the standard TV view that you get, and sure you can discern some things, but as the article says, a lot of the plays happen off camera, because the view is centered around the QB. You can see the QB throw the ball, and you can see running plays but you get no information on longer plays, or how the defense actually works.
As the article says, watching what's happening in the secondary has become a lot more important given that the NFL basically wants to turn itself into a passing league. More and more often, the action happens off camera and you only get a better view on replays.
The one thing I like about watching Sunday Night Football on NBC online is that you can actually change the view to the "Madden" view, so that you're right behind the QB and you can see the entire field. This gives a lot better insight into what the QB sees, and there you can really appreciate things like how even 1-2 feet of separation gives a skilled QB just enough space to throw a well placed ball away from the defender, etc.
[+] [-] neutronicus|14 years ago|reply
Watch the offensive linemen. If any one of them fires forward and crosses the line of scrimmage, it's a run. If either guard (guys to either side of the center) starts running to one side or the other, the play is almost certainly going that way. If the offensive linemen stand up and move backwards, it's probably a pass.
The quarterback and running back do a lot of things to disguise which way the play is going, but you can almost always tell what kind of play the offense is running by watching the offensive linemen.
[+] [-] Anechoic|14 years ago|reply
I heart Gronk and Hernandez!
> If they are in line, in front of the QB then you can safely assume a pass or trick play.
Not really, since defenses can see the same thing and know a team's tendencies from scouting. A better indication of pass vs. run is how far the tailback lines up behind scrimmage. For run plays, the RB tends to line up about 6-7 yards behind scrimmage to they can get up a head of steam as they go through the line. For pass and play-action the tailbacks line up closer (around 5 yards) so they can sneak through the line for pass routes or quickly block blitzers. It's harder for defenses on the field to see if a RB is lining up 5 yards deep vs 7 yards deep.
[+] [-] nuromancer|14 years ago|reply
2 safeties is pretty standard and is just as much a run stopping defense. For example the corners in man on the exterior with the safeties in man on the interior is a run stopping defense. Backers often cover the apex or a safety roles to the center taking away the middle. Nice overal explanation but the strategy in football is to "show" one thing and do another which is why a pre-snap read only goes so far.
[+] [-] jwallaceparker|14 years ago|reply
You've posted some great information here, but actually viewing all 22 players from a birds-eye-view affords an exponentially superior quality of analysis.
[+] [-] temuze|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josephcooney|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _delirium|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] curiouskat|14 years ago|reply
What prevents owners from keeping the games close or trading wins/losses now to help a storyline in exchange for markers for future wins when they're on a championship track?
While it is illegal to fix sporting events for gambling purposes, evidently you can fix sports for entertainment purposes. The All 22 footage would make this more difficult because this type of stuff would be easier for fans to detect.
[+] [-] CamperBob|14 years ago|reply
Couldn't it be as simple as wanting to preserve some value for the fans who actually buy tickets?
In any case, if this footage is so valuable, why can't somebody with a good camera phone buy a seat in the nosebleed section, set up a tripod, and charge for the stream?
[+] [-] ja2ke|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philwelch|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ghshephard|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ubernostrum|14 years ago|reply
Televised baseball consists almost entirely of views of the pitcher and the batter, and only turns somewhere else to show where the ball ended up or to focus on a runner who's doing something.
And that misses out on so much of the actual game. The standard view from center field, looking at the pitcher and the batter, can't show you an infield shift. It can't show you how deep the outfielders are playing. It can't show you players reacting to signs from managers and coaches. It can't show you anything except one tiny portion of what's actually happening on the field.
And so you can't really understand why things happen the way they do -- somebody hit a little bloop single into right field? Maybe it was poor defense that allowed it to happen, but maybe there was a shift on and the outfield was playing deep. You don't know, and won't see, any of that in a televised game.
[+] [-] babar|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matdwyer|14 years ago|reply
You got an SLR in, but try "filming" a game with it - you'll be stopped in under 10 minutes, I promise you
Also, that isn't like the streaming sites where you can be at a desk in Sweden and re-broadcasting games fairly anonymously... they'd just walk up to your seat and escort you out.
[+] [-] brownie|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mnutt|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jleader|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] malbs|14 years ago|reply
The bookmakers would already have access to this footage, because it is a competitive edge over the public. If the public suddenly had access to the all 22, there might be a correction in those betting markets.
And if the bookmakers don't have access to the footage? Could be an opportunity to capitalise on their in-efficiency ;)
[+] [-] _ea1k|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yewtree|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 1010101111001|14 years ago|reply
Now we have ESPN.
Hats off to keeptrying. You are a true fan.
[+] [-] nkassis|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mekarpeles|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tobych|14 years ago|reply