Having lived in many an unconventional domicile over the years, it seems to me that there is an untapped market for the type of furniture solutions that you only need when you're living somewhere not designed for living.
I lived in a hotel for a while. White carpet! White marble sink! Don't drink any grape juice or wine!
When your kitchen is just a mini-fridge, hot-plate, electric kettle, and a toaster, everything takes so many extra steps to protect your environment from any possible spills. Had to do dishes in the tub, and while the laundry was broken, also did laundry there and then turned the whole room into a drying area.
Things like this are going to be happening with increasing frequency. Landlords and property managers are going to get mad or at least very stressed about %$#@# dangit these &@#^@# people how can they live like this!? Meanwhile the tenants will be pissed about living in the converse situation wondering @#$@#$ dangit how are we supposed to live any other way if the facilities are built for other activities!?!
As a resident of San Antonio, I was happy to see one of the projects here featured in the article. I've been happy living here, with among other things, the low cost of living, great parks, unique culture, nearby beaches and wine country, plus a few options for gigabit fiber internet.
However, the city's never had a lot of tech employers, and the vacant office space downtown seems like such a waste. It is good to see it being put to use.
As an aside: with the expansion of major tech employers in Austin and pervasiveness of remote work, I wonder if there is much demand for optional hybrid setups like teams from in the region going into the office once a month or so for collaboration. I am not sure if I'd prefer it to full remote, but in person meetings with coworkers can be quite enjoyable.
Allowing people to live a little further from Austin while commuting in occasionally seems like a good way to get some of the benefits of in person work while letting people choose locales with a lower cost of living.
Getting between San Antonio is currently a poor experience that really holds back that idea to me. I35 is absolutely no fun during peak usage and requires car ownership. The train is insanely cheap but too slow and leaves once per day at extremely early / late times between the cities. Nicer busses like the Vonlane don’t run between the cities.
High speed rails would absolutely transform the paradigm overnight. It would solve a lot of affordability issues in Austin while introducing more money into the SA economy. As it currently stands, SA has virtually no tech scene (relative to other major cities), is too sprawled out, and too much effort for people to want to commute between regularly in my opinion. It’s a hard sale for younger developers. There’s a lot of potential though!
FWIW, I've lived in a converted office building in Seattle. It was actually pretty nice, much nicer than most purpose-built apartment buildings. When they did the conversion, they re-engineered the interior pretty heavily and re-purposed some existing elevator shafts for other purposes that weren't required prior to the conversion.
Some office buildings will be more amenable to conversion than others, so part of this would likely be selecting buildings for conversion where the conversion is both straightforward and will produce nice apartments. You want buildings that have many floors but relatively small area per floor.
Floorplate depth is usually the big issue. Residential generally doesn't like being much deeper than around 20m/65ft. Most tall office buildings built after the 70s or 80s will be deeper and maybe impossible to design into comfortable residences.
Services is the other big one. Many more rooms needing hot and cold water and wastewater connections, more AC outlets and customisation, etc. Even if you have the space to do so (as office floor to floor heights are typically higher than residential). Plus remodelling facades to give more residential style windows etc.
And does your basement have enough space for the cars residents will demand?
Its an expensive business to add this all in and sometimes may be cheaper to just knock it down and start afresh.
I lived for a few years in a converted meat packing factory in west Chicago. The apartments were really nice, except for the giant house centipedes that would occasionally migrate inside when it rained and would drop from the ceilings. It was essentially a long warehouse type building, so they put apartments/windows on each side with walking corridors down the middle and multiple floors, and a parking garage in the basement.
The building codes are likely very different. Think about a shopping mall and the idea of converting it to cheap housing. All of the plumbing and electrical is for stores - maybe 1 sink per small store and department/anchor stores have 8 bathroom stalls all in one area. Then you have the fact that these buildings were likely constructed using asbestos in various ways.
Gutting the interiors entirely is necessary, maybe they even need to gut major areas of the building to support more utilities as well. It’s probably not cheap so affordable housing may not be in the equation afterwards because of the renovation costs.
If you have seen a residential tower and an office tower being built side by side, you know why.
The residential tower is built with concrete layers separating every floor (not always every flat within the same floor unfortunately). An office building has no separation between floor, only a thin sheet of metal.
I would never live in a converted (purpose built) office building office, except perhaps if it is to live on the top floor.
Not for me. One of the reasons to live downtown is to be close to the office, and to benefit from other people being around. If you dont have an office and the local shops and restaurants are closing, why live downtown?
If this trend continues, you'll be around even more people, and even more amenities will spring up to accommodate all the new people. The only catch is that your next job might not be close by in the city. Perhaps it'll be remote, or you'll be commuting out of the city. Thankfully, logistically, this is far preferable to the inverse.
If you live in downtown Dallas, it's generally easy to drive out in arbitrary directions because you're going the other direction from all of the people sitting (literally) in the opening traffic jam from Office Space.
I like this trend for Dallas and think it is long overdue. Covid made it very obvious. The city has grown a ton in recent history but has had a hard time bringing people to downtown for anything other than work. It's usually dead in evenings and on weekends. Restaurants struggle unless they cater to the lunch crowd, etc. While it's improved in the past ~5 years or so versus the previous ~10; I've seen recent numbers that say there are only about 10000-12000 residents in the Downtown area. Anyways, I've been reading a lot on the local happenings and am interesting into how this trend will reshape the area culturally/economically. For example, Texan's don't tend to put up with homeless issues like they exist and the city really needs to figure that out or this could be a wasted opportunity. These are all new "luxury apartments" and those folks aren't going to tolerate the homeless issues but even that's hard to say since we've gotten such an influx of more liberal minded folks that are more compassionate on those issues.
Every new apartment calls itself a luxury apartment. Don’t get hung up on the marketing buzz words. Each new apartment that is constructed lowers the rent, particularly on old apartments. Dallas, compared to other cities, has done a fantastic job building more apartments. Rent keeps going up in Dallas because people move in faster than apartments can be built and inflation. The solution isn’t to require non-luxury apartments but to keep allowing apartments of any kind to be built. A luxury apartment today is affordable housing tomorrow
> For example, Texan's don't tend to put up with homeless issues like they exist and the city really needs to figure that out or this could be a wasted opportunity. These are all new "luxury apartments" and those folks aren't going to tolerate the homeless issues but even that's hard to say since we've gotten such an influx of more liberal minded folks that are more compassionate on those issues.
This observation is pretzeled enough that I do not understand what you are trying to say. But I take exception at the suggestion that there is some political group that is more compassionate when dealing with homeless people - everyone of every stripe has compassion for homeless people. Charity is a near universal value. The political debate is 100% about:
- What is effective.
- What help should be compelled, and from whom (there are issues of fairness here).
- What is the root cause of any given case of homelessness.
And besides, in this case I note relaxed regulation that lets offices convert to apartments (without tripping up some zoning permit problem) is more effective at getting people into homes than compassion.
> The trend seems tailor-made for Texas. Office-vacancy rates in most of the state’s major downtowns are high (roughly 25 percent in Dallas and Houston, in the teens in Fort Worth and San Antonio). The cost of single-family homes has skyrocketed and interest rates have risen, making many would-be buyers renters. And relatively few apartments are available, with vacancy levels in the single digits and pricey monthly rents expected to get even pricier
Similar trends and numbers apply nationwide, if not worldwide. You could certainly say all of this (indeed, to an even greater extent) for places like San Francisco and New York City.
I would certainly welcome some life returning to downtown Dallas. When I worked there in the aughts it looked more or less indistinguishable from a lot of the Rust Belt downtowns I visited during the same period. Skyrocketing vacancies and anemic accommodations because of all the the companies who fled to real estate deals in the burbs.
I'd love it if these developments would grant equity to its tenants. But then they'd just squat on the land, making it useless.
Is this really the best of all possible worlds, where a small number of investment groups with vast wealth can keep accumulating the core real estate of cities, to extract wealth from its citizens?
This needs to be done everywhere. Move as much people to remote as physically possible, which is basically everyone who works in an office, and change all that into residential real estate.
There have been a number of church to condo (and house!) conversions in Seattle and other parts of the Pacific Northwest. They have pretty unique interiors due to the architectural constraints put on them by the original building and the prodigious quantities of vertical space.
Apartments full of people sitting in some tiny room all day zooming into their meetings. Imagine allocating 25% of your expensive 1200sqft apartment for your work from home office. 25% allocated to the sole use of your employer. And it isn’t even tax deductible because you are a w2. It’s like Uber only instead of people using their own property to drive other people around they are using their own home to benefit your employer. Behold the brave new dystopian future.
This stuff is a fad. I don’t care what people say. Sitting on some tiny urban apartment working at home all day makes zero sense. Neither does paying for some co-working space to escape said tiny apartment. Might as well go to the office… oh wait… same thing in this brave “new normal”
All we are seeing is the rebirth of white flight to the suburbs branded as some kind of new revolution in tech work.
It’s a fad. Covid mitigations we’re temporary. Pendulum is gonna swing back. It’s just a matter of time.
I think it doesn’t make sense too. But full WFH opens the option of moving to another LCOL city to have a bigger place for less money and potentially more quality of life too.
People that can do this would end not taking into account the location of the job when choosing the place to live. This will take time to sink, but in my opinion is the likely consequence.
[+] [-] dustractor|3 years ago|reply
I lived in a hotel for a while. White carpet! White marble sink! Don't drink any grape juice or wine!
When your kitchen is just a mini-fridge, hot-plate, electric kettle, and a toaster, everything takes so many extra steps to protect your environment from any possible spills. Had to do dishes in the tub, and while the laundry was broken, also did laundry there and then turned the whole room into a drying area.
Things like this are going to be happening with increasing frequency. Landlords and property managers are going to get mad or at least very stressed about %$#@# dangit these &@#^@# people how can they live like this!? Meanwhile the tenants will be pissed about living in the converse situation wondering @#$@#$ dangit how are we supposed to live any other way if the facilities are built for other activities!?!
[+] [-] soggylaundry|3 years ago|reply
there are ultra-premium variants
[+] [-] baby|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mariojv|3 years ago|reply
However, the city's never had a lot of tech employers, and the vacant office space downtown seems like such a waste. It is good to see it being put to use.
As an aside: with the expansion of major tech employers in Austin and pervasiveness of remote work, I wonder if there is much demand for optional hybrid setups like teams from in the region going into the office once a month or so for collaboration. I am not sure if I'd prefer it to full remote, but in person meetings with coworkers can be quite enjoyable.
Allowing people to live a little further from Austin while commuting in occasionally seems like a good way to get some of the benefits of in person work while letting people choose locales with a lower cost of living.
[+] [-] pwpw|3 years ago|reply
High speed rails would absolutely transform the paradigm overnight. It would solve a lot of affordability issues in Austin while introducing more money into the SA economy. As it currently stands, SA has virtually no tech scene (relative to other major cities), is too sprawled out, and too much effort for people to want to commute between regularly in my opinion. It’s a hard sale for younger developers. There’s a lot of potential though!
[+] [-] pfdietz|3 years ago|reply
I like your semi-remote idea. May I suggest everyone get together at a resort-like area, not at an office?
[+] [-] InCityDreams|3 years ago|reply
Going only off several hn comments - don't they just lower your wages?
[+] [-] swozey|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rgblambda|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jandrewrogers|3 years ago|reply
Some office buildings will be more amenable to conversion than others, so part of this would likely be selecting buildings for conversion where the conversion is both straightforward and will produce nice apartments. You want buildings that have many floors but relatively small area per floor.
[+] [-] twelvechairs|3 years ago|reply
Services is the other big one. Many more rooms needing hot and cold water and wastewater connections, more AC outlets and customisation, etc. Even if you have the space to do so (as office floor to floor heights are typically higher than residential). Plus remodelling facades to give more residential style windows etc.
And does your basement have enough space for the cars residents will demand?
Its an expensive business to add this all in and sometimes may be cheaper to just knock it down and start afresh.
[+] [-] nvarsj|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matt_s|3 years ago|reply
Gutting the interiors entirely is necessary, maybe they even need to gut major areas of the building to support more utilities as well. It’s probably not cheap so affordable housing may not be in the equation afterwards because of the renovation costs.
[+] [-] jnwatson|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WaxProlix|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cm2187|3 years ago|reply
The residential tower is built with concrete layers separating every floor (not always every flat within the same floor unfortunately). An office building has no separation between floor, only a thin sheet of metal.
I would never live in a converted (purpose built) office building office, except perhaps if it is to live on the top floor.
[+] [-] bontaq|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andsoitis|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dhdurrrgh|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] vwoolf|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] buzzert|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brettgooo|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rr808|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Gareth321|3 years ago|reply
If this trend continues, you'll be around even more people, and even more amenities will spring up to accommodate all the new people. The only catch is that your next job might not be close by in the city. Perhaps it'll be remote, or you'll be commuting out of the city. Thankfully, logistically, this is far preferable to the inverse.
[+] [-] humanrebar|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] conductr|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jostmey|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tjr225|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] irrational|3 years ago|reply
Shouldn’t everyone have compassion for the poor and needy?
[+] [-] roenxi|3 years ago|reply
This observation is pretzeled enough that I do not understand what you are trying to say. But I take exception at the suggestion that there is some political group that is more compassionate when dealing with homeless people - everyone of every stripe has compassion for homeless people. Charity is a near universal value. The political debate is 100% about:
- What is effective.
- What help should be compelled, and from whom (there are issues of fairness here).
- What is the root cause of any given case of homelessness.
And besides, in this case I note relaxed regulation that lets offices convert to apartments (without tripping up some zoning permit problem) is more effective at getting people into homes than compassion.
[+] [-] arbuge|3 years ago|reply
Similar trends and numbers apply nationwide, if not worldwide. You could certainly say all of this (indeed, to an even greater extent) for places like San Francisco and New York City.
[+] [-] woofyman|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hwestiii|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unethical_ban|3 years ago|reply
Is this really the best of all possible worlds, where a small number of investment groups with vast wealth can keep accumulating the core real estate of cities, to extract wealth from its citizens?
[+] [-] stillbourne|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baby|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MomoXenosaga|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] settrans|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jandrewrogers|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eschulz|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LatteLazy|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] black_13|3 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] TedShiller|3 years ago|reply
[+] [-] diordiderot|3 years ago|reply
2. Overcrowding doesn't even make sense. Thats just a subjective opinion.
3. Cities aren't loud cars are loud[0]
[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8
[+] [-] spookthesunset|3 years ago|reply
This stuff is a fad. I don’t care what people say. Sitting on some tiny urban apartment working at home all day makes zero sense. Neither does paying for some co-working space to escape said tiny apartment. Might as well go to the office… oh wait… same thing in this brave “new normal”
All we are seeing is the rebirth of white flight to the suburbs branded as some kind of new revolution in tech work.
It’s a fad. Covid mitigations we’re temporary. Pendulum is gonna swing back. It’s just a matter of time.
[+] [-] Terr_|3 years ago|reply
Outside work hours I use the same floor space for private stuff, like gaming on my PC with too many fans and lights.
Oh, sure, having a separate dedicated work-space is nice, cognitively speaking, but it's a wild exaggeration to claim it can't ever be dual-use.
[+] [-] Tade0|3 years ago|reply
I'm not American, so aside from the unit conversions I'm having trouble reading the sentiment.
Is a 1200sq ft apartment considered large in the US? Are rooms normally 300sq ft?
I' asking because I live and work on around 700sq ft, of which 150sq ft is my office.
[+] [-] ShallowCopy|3 years ago|reply
People that can do this would end not taking into account the location of the job when choosing the place to live. This will take time to sink, but in my opinion is the likely consequence.